Graham Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 You can accept the shoulder design all you want, but I just don't like it. The feeling of the arms not being locked in place and flapping on a fragile hinge completely negates the extra range of movement for me. When I move the arms I don't think, "Wow, what a wonderful range of articulation!" I think, "Huh, it feels like it's not fully transformed but I guess it is." I understand why people are extremely upset if their expensive toy breaks and there is no way to repair it, I'd be too. However, I'm surprised that some people are against the extra articulation that Yamato added to the shoulder. IMO, it really improves the poseablity of the toy. And I'd hardly describe the shoulder as flapping around. If we get no reported breaks on the VF-1A Hikaru, that makes me wonder how much of the problem is user error VS. design and material issues. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidearmsalpha Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Now that I've had the 1S for a few weeks I have to say the shoulder issue kind of spoils the toy overall for me. Mine hasn't broken, but what bothers me even more than the potential for breakage is just the fact that the shoulders simply hang there without pegging into or resting on anything. It's a big sore on an otherwise perfect toy. It's almost as if they couldn't figure out how to secure the shoulder pieces (why not use the 1/48 method?) so they just gave up and hoped nobody would mind. In Battroid mode it's typically the arms that get posed more than anything, so the fact that they are so worrisome and unsecure actually makes me avoid the toy. It sits there saying "Come on, play with me!!" and I reach for it...and then just sort of withdraw my hand with a wince and decide I'll just enjoy it looking pretty on the shelf rather than allow myself to get annoyed by something that should be providing enjoyment. I think that while my 1/60 is still safe and unbroken I'll pack it up and dump it in the For Sale forum and hope something better comes along. I was thinking is it possible that a side cover part could secure this hinge in its place so that it doesn't move around freely as eriku mentions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) However, I'm surprised that some people are against the extra articulation that Yamato added to the shoulder. IMO, it really improves the poseablity of the toy. And I'd hardly describe the shoulder as flapping around. I think the issue is that the shoulder-base hinge offers no resistance when one is trying to move the actual shoulder, and it just floats freely. If it just snapped into place or something it would be so much better, especially considering that posing the arms puts stress on the unsupported shoulder hinge. And honestly, that hinge doesn't make a big difference in arm poses, in my experience. EDIT: I still love the f*ck outta my 1/60 v2 VF-1, and this is a minor issue. It's just that the toy is so damn close to perfection, you know? Edited September 9, 2008 by danth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 However, I'm surprised that some people are against the extra articulation that Yamato added to the shoulder. IMO, it really improves the poseablity of the toy. More articulation is better for us, but if it leads to breakage, then it cancels out. Extra articulation is redundant if there is breakage; you can't move what is no longer on the toy. No one here is against the extra articulation, they simply don't think its worth it at the cost of potential breakage. I think the issue is that the shoulder-base hinge offers no resistance when one is trying to move the actual shoulder, and it just floats freely. If it just snapped into place or something it would be so much better, especially considering that posing the arms puts stress on the unsupported shoulder hinge. There we go If we get no reported breaks on the VF-1A Hikaru, that makes me wonder how much of the problem is user error VS. design and material issues. That would still mean that the Focker version is more prone to breaking due to the shoulders being tight. When its all said and done, I think thats the actual culprit in all of this. The 1A's shoulders are looser, the 1S are very tight. There have been reported breakages for the 1S, but none for the 1A. Some of the fans who bought the 1A bought the 1S previously. So I am leaning more on the shoulders being too tight at the factory rather than user error. This is the very same reason I am trying to figure out how to remove the shoulder armor in an effort to loosen the shoulder screws. That way I can see for myself if easing the tension really helps or not. I think you guys may be over-reacting just a tad... I have a ton of fun posing mine and the design of the shoulders makes them even more poseable than they would if they locked into place I am all for the extra articulation, I just don't want mine breaking in the future. Honestly I think its better for all of us to be brutally honest when it comes to stuff like this, if it makes Yamato aware, and they rectify the problem, then thats better for all of us. If anyone thinks I have an anti-Yamato bias, read my comments on the Aoshima Legioss I picked up last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie addict Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I was in love with my VF-1S v2 until it broke, I enjoy the extra articulation and tightness, Yamato did a great job, but it's so annoying that such a thing can happen, I'm still thinking of getting myself a second VF-1S....but I have postponed that purchase until Graham gets some info about the breakage from Yamato... in the meantime, I haven't given it much effort, but I can't find a way to fix my broken hinge yet... been busy but something I noticed is that the metal pin exactly where the plastic breaks is thicker (I imaged that this acts as a base for the plastic hinge to house in and not slide trough when assembling) making the plastic around it thinner and perhaps more brittle compared to the other edge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterryno Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 well, i just got my Super-Hikky 1A today, so pix against the old 1/60... and juz coz the original 1/60 did not come with a pilot nor a FAST-Pack... THANKS for the great comparison pics! Now can you throw it next to a 1/48. I guess I could later. I'm just lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterryno Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I am going to do all I can to find how to make a metal portion of that part that breaks. .it may not be much. .but I sure the hell will try . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miriya Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I am going to do all I can to find how to make a metal portion of that part that breaks. .it may not be much. .but I sure the hell will try . You could use a milling machine and 20/20 aluminum to make a piece the same size and shape. Once you get it down most milling machines are computerized these days so you could just dial it in and produce a couple dozen in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atreyu2112 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Has anyone else ordered a non-strike VF-1S 2.0 from L&FT? I never ordered from Los before but I was charged for it early last week & they said it would be in Friday. Still no update on shipping status or a response to my inquiry. I'm dying to get my hands on this thing. Does it usually take a long time for them to ship? Thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miriya Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Has anyone else ordered a non-strike VF-1S 2.0 from L&FT? I never ordered from Los before but I was charged for it early last week & they said it would be in Friday. Still no update on shipping status or a response to my inquiry. I'm dying to get my hands on this thing. Does it usually take a long time for them to ship? Thanks!!! They are usually very efficient and pretty good on time. I am going to guess that if it was in on friday, then monday take inventory and print shipping lables, then tuesday ship so you will probably get a notice today or tomorrow. That is totally from my arse FYI. But probably a good guess. Carlos is great and usually will reply quickly. You may want to email again if you have not gotten a reply as I know from my job that often times good emails get filtered wrong and trashed with the spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterryno Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Has anyone else ordered a non-strike VF-1S 2.0 from L&FT? I never ordered from Los before but I was charged for it early last week & they said it would be in Friday. Still no update on shipping status or a response to my inquiry. I'm dying to get my hands on this thing. Does it usually take a long time for them to ship? Thanks!!! Los is a VERY reliable seller and I do all of my in the states ordering from him. He usually gets back to me via email within 24 hours if not sooner. The orders go out usually the day after he receives them. I have had it happened where I was charged and then the shipment coming to him was later than expected. It happens sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I believe the latest batch to Los was held up in customs at the last minute. Lots of stuff from Japan seems to have been delayed lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Got my VF-1A in the mail today, sitting under my work desk. I'm trying very hard not to let all this talk of breaking shoulders kill my enthusiasm. I managed to love the YF-19 and it's snap happy neck, so hopefully I can maintain my enthusiasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterryno Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Got my VF-1A in the mail today, sitting under my work desk. I'm trying very hard not to let all this talk of breaking shoulders kill my enthusiasm. I managed to love the YF-19 and it's snap happy neck, so hopefully I can maintain my enthusiasm. Well......the shoulder breakages have not been reported on the 1As as of yet. So I would not worry too much. Just be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterryno Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 You could use a milling machine and 20/20 aluminum to make a piece the same size and shape. Once you get it down most milling machines are computerized these days so you could just dial it in and produce a couple dozen in a day. Sooooo yeah.....you wanna hook me up with one of those machines? We can be partners and make lots and lots of money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Well......the shoulder breakages have not been reported on the 1As as of yet. So I would not worry too much. Just be careful. I have to say, I'm frankly shocked now that I've had it out and transformed/put the super parts on and off several times. Yamato went and made a damn solid toy. And I mean that in the BEST possible way. The fighter mode is gorgeously solid. Gerwalk equally so. The battroid mode suffers a bit from not enough/not strong enough ratchet detents in the ankles, and that's really my ONLY complaint. The entire figure is absolutely solid and a complete and utter departure from any other Yamato product I've ever owned. The shoulder ball joints are smooth and not too tight, so I don't feel any hesitation fiddling with the arms. The only place that they give me concern is in Gerwalk, where the shoulders are very difficult to put in a decent looking place where they don't butt heads with the wings. I didn't think I'd actually believe it when I got it, but the new 1/60 really IS better than the 1/48. It benefits from the smaller size, I think. It's a cheap (hardly) thrill to grab the fighter by the fastpacks and whoosh it around. I would never have done that with my 1/48 Stealth and his repro BP8. It's a pity that I'm having difficulty making the legs pose in a pleasing position in Battroid mode, though. I can see now why 1/2 of the yamato photos have the hip extensions popped out by one click in most photos. I don't like the look of it, but it's hard to get the legs to hold the battroid straight (with the fast packs on, anyway. It's less of a headache without) without doing the same, which I'm not wholly enthused about. Overall, I'm totally glad I A) Waited for the second 1A release (woo smooth shoulders) and B) picked it up to begin with. I wanted to resist being overly impressed, but I have to admit that I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Probably the best thing, coming from owning a 1/48, is the complete and utter unreliance on the backpack latch in battroid mode. you don't need it. At all. In non-fastpack mode, it's more than supportive enough to hold itself up. If you have the fastpacks on, the packs themselves will latch it in place. You don't need to mess with the latch or the clicking in (which puts undue pressure on the paint of the tailfins) at all. The latch is there if you're paranoid, of course, but it's completely, utterly, unnecessary for the enjoyment of the figure. Bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0n5t3r Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 but something I noticed is that the metal pin exactly where the plastic breaks is thicker (I imaged that this acts as a base for the plastic hinge to house in and not slide trough when assembling) making the plastic around it thinner and perhaps more brittle compared to the other edge... I just noticed on my v2 1S that the shoulder hinge pin is upside-down on the left shoulder (thick part w/ teeth on top). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miriya Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Sooooo yeah.....you wanna hook me up with one of those machines? We can be partners and make lots and lots of money! Too bad. My dad used to have one in his garage when I was in high school. But he got rid of it years ago. There are machine shops all over the place though that you can pay to make little (or big) bits to your specs. Some of these places you can bring them any 3 dimensional object, they do a 3D scan, input the info to the milling machine and you choose your material, steel, aluminum, wood, foam and they build it for you. What we would need is one complete, not broken, piece and get it replicated in high quality aluminum. Or we could just nag Graham about it enough so that he will mention it to yamato and they make that piece in die cast for the next releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I just noticed on my v2 1S that the shoulder hinge pin is upside-down on the left shoulder (thick part w/ teeth on top). I think mine is like that too. The battroid mode suffers a bit from not enough/not strong enough ratchet detents in the ankles, and that's really my ONLY complaint. These are actually strong on the 1S, but it seems the shoulders are looser on the 1A, and judging from what you said, are less likely to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0n5t3r Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I think mine is like that too. if this is the case for everybody, then essentially Yamato used the same part for both the left and right shoulders. hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miriya Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 if this is the case for everybody, then essentially Yamato used the same part for both the left and right shoulders. hmmm. Ohhhhh! Maybe that is the culprit! Were all the breakages of the right shoulder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0n5t3r Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Ohhhhh! Maybe that is the culprit! Were all the breakages of the right shoulder? could be... so far all the pics i've seen were right shoulders. i also noticed that the part where the intakes/thighs latch onto in fighter/gerwalk are metal on the new 1/60 whereas on the 1/48 it's plastic. personally, i would've preferred they kept it plastic coz its a friction part and it'll be annoying when the paint starts chipping coz this part is visible in fighter/gerwalk modes, unlike the other metal parts w/c are hidden in all 3 modes... 2¢ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 The only Yamato products that every did any breakage on me are: 1) The old 1/60 VF-11B who's leg fell off AS SOON as I took it out of the box - heck - the leg just stayed in the box. 2) My old 1/60 VF-OA - however my new OA is sturdy and my OS has always been sturdy. Haven't transformed my YF-21 yet. YF-19: SOLID. I will be getting my VF-1S /160 shortly and it's really sad to read that there might be a shoulder problem... Will be careful with that... HOWEVER - you know what it reminds me of? I have two SV-51 Ivanovs. Why? Because I STUPIDLY applied excess presure to the wing-latch on my first Ivanov - and it too was a plastic thing around a metal rod. Snap! The wing actually still holds; the thing looks ok; the damage is hidden, I put some super glue in there just in case... But the point is: it was my fault for applying pressure. My Nora and new Ivanov are problem free. But with Yammies - I know Graham likes to say "I can transform mine in [fill in relatively short time]" - but I just do it slowly...very slowly - even if it takes me up to 45 minutes. For the life of me, I can't remember all of the steps; and I use the instructions and double and triple check and just don't rush it - and never ever apply excess force. This is why I've only NOW learned that my YF-19's neck also transorms... or that there's a panel to be flipped out to make up for his back and cover the cockpit in battroid mode... Each of these birds is delicate and has lots and lots of moving parts - I have big hands and can CRUSH people like Borat. This includes being able to CRUSH Valks. So I go slow. my point is - there is a difference between bad QC and a delicate figure. Yammies are by and large just very delicate figures that need to be handled with care. With all those moving parts and the need to have sleek parts in order to stay faithful to screen CADs and the like - you just have to accept it. These will not have the "play value" of a Transformer. VFTF1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) my point is - there is a difference between bad QC and a delicate figure. Yammies are by and large just very delicate figures that need to be handled with care. With all those moving parts and the need to have sleek parts in order to stay faithful to screen CADs and the like - you just have to accept it. These will not have the "play value" of a Transformer. There is a point where we have to see whether or not what we post is brutally honest, or apologetic. Those of us that have the new 1/60 VF-1S for the most part, agree that it is one of the most solid, durable releases Yamato has made, except for the shoulder hinge. The owners of the VF-1A so far have had no reported breakages. This is good. The culprit from my own deductions is the shoulders on the 1S being screwed in too tight at the factory. This is not a decision error nor user error. This is a factory error. Obviously if you have something that tight, the hinge it is on should be secure. This is not the case. Maybe the shoulders weren't supposed to be that tight? Who knows, that lends itself to being a factory error. It is what it is. No company improves if everyone just accepts what's given to them and blames themselves for breaking the toy. Yes there are some fans that inevitably will break something and it is their fault. Yet there are times that are unforseen, when a product will break. Some of the members here, who have had broken hinges are ones that had a ton of Yamato valkyries before, and knew what they were doing. Luckily only very few had the hinge break. Those of us that have the 1S know that if something were to break, it will probably be that. There are problematic areas that should be pointed out, that way the company is aware, and will try to rectify the areas as to eliminate the problem. Graham is going to talk to Yamato about the hinge. Yamato has eased tension on the hinge for the 1A. Maybe after Graham talks to them, and brings light of the situation to Yamato, they will make further improvements. Some may ask why we are so irritated about that hinge. Why dissapointed when the toy is so good in all other areas. Thats just it though; why can't it be good in all areas? Fix the shoulder hinge somehow, and you pretty much eliminate the most fragile area of the toy. The hip bar going from battroid back to fighter mode? HAH. Easy to remove. The shoulder hinge not breaking when you are posing the 1S in battroid mode? F%^uck! Good luck. Having to secure the hinge each time you want to pose the 1S, as a precaution is a pain in the ass. It dampers my delight at handling this toy. This is coming from someone that was all for the new 1/60 when most of you were dedicated to the 1/48 with its chicken hands and out of balanced proportions in gerwalk and battroid modes. This is coming from someone that looked forward to the new double jointed elbows with much delight. This is coming from someone that has Yamato, Bandai, and Toynami valkyries of all kinds. These are not porcelain toys, or variable resin kits. What you say applies to those. The Yamato's are not all that fragile. I can man handle the 1/48 and to an extent the new 1/60. The 1/48 had bp8. On the new 1/60, its the shoulder hinge, but so far its just on the VF-1S. Sure they don't have the durability of transformers, but even then you have to ask, well "which ones?". There are a good number of alternator transformers that will break long before the 1/48, or new 1/60 will break. This comes from a guy that has Masterpiece, Alternators, and Binaltechs. In my experience, the new 1/60 is much more durable than some Alternators. With Yamato, there are problematic areas, which if you can see early on, are easy to avoid. With the 1/60 VF-1S, that hinge did not need to be that fragile. Thats where a lot of the disappointment stems from. I'd love to recommend the new 1/60 without any recommendations on what to avoid, but I simply can't. Most of all, I do not want mine breaking. Yes I take the steps to prevent the hinge from breaking but I really shouldn't have to. This is not laziness, this is common sense. We aren't handling display items or variable garage kits, we are handling a toy meant to be transformed and posed. Some way, somehow, Yamato always has somethings that stop themselves short of perfection. The shoulder hinge is one of them. Edited September 10, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Stop importing gray market toys if you're gonna bitch so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriku Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Looking at my 1/60 last night I was so, so tempted to just try and pop the arm off since the shoulder joint appears to be a simple ball/socket affair. I almost gave it a tug, and then I realized that my life is filled with ironies and I would probably break the shoulder hinge clean off while trying to snap the arm back into it's socket. Maybe I'll just brace the hinge and sit down for an hour twirling the arm in circles until it loosens up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriku Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Stop importing gray market toys if you're gonna bitch so much. Explain your logic in detail, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Stop importing gray market toys if you're gonna bitch so much. How dedicated and loyal this guy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Stop importing gray market toys if you're gonna bitch so much. Stop reading web forums if you're gonna bitch so much about bitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Maybe I'll just brace the hinge and sit down for an hour twirling the arm in circles until it loosens up. I've seriously considered that. And VF5SS---that's extremely trollish behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I've seriously considered that. The shoulders have loosened up considerably ever since I got the toy, because I do pose it often. Has anyone found a way to get the shoulder armor off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 See, I pose it rarely, so if I let it happen "naturally" it'll take years. (Of course, it's a catch 22---the reason I don't post it often is because I'm so afraid of breaking something, and I have to hold the hinges and re-position the chest plate every time I move it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) See, I pose it rarely, so if I let it happen "naturally" it'll take years. (Of course, it's a catch 22---the reason I don't post it often is because I'm so afraid of breaking something, and I have to hold the hinges and re-position the chest plate every time I move it) In conclusion, this situation sucks. Edited September 10, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriku Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 In conclusion, this situation sucks. Oh, stop b!tching you b!tchy little b!tch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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