Macross Frontier Episode 13 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[grss1982]

Possibly.. But if it is the same principle and assume the original Grace went underground on Frontier, how can the original Grace control dummy Grace over that long distance without the problem of cutting the control signal through the fold disruptions? Unless Grace is an AI/Cylon/skinjob and can 'download' her soul into a new body, I presume she has sacrificed herself for her and her superiors' cause, thus is dead.

One more thing: everyone feels sorry for the brave Zentran 33th, but what about Sheryl's crew??? From being taken hostage, saved and then getting blasted away into atomic particles, who feels sorry for them?

Sheryl will have to find a whole new crew and assistant...

Poor Ranka. Hopefully she won't turn out to be Ranka Kerrigan, Queen of Brooms (aka ze evil Zupahdimenzional Zinderella).

Which begs the question: Is she gonna be flying a VF-25 "Shreyl Special" soon, since she lost her crew?

I'm gonna hit the breaks and he'll fly right by.

Too close for missiles, I'm switching to guns.

haha

Top Gun Hommage.

[HMP_Goose]

[just remembered "wormhole weapon" from Farscape]

[Sumdumgai]

Maybe Sheryl will get the VF-25 we thought was a placeholder in early animation. Blue and white, like Alto/Gilliam's scheme but with blue instead of red.

[tankf77]

Maybe Sheryl will get the VF-25 we thought was a placeholder in early animation. Blue and white, like Alto/Gilliam's scheme but with blue instead of red.

yay!! She'll probably give up her career as a singer, join SMS, and be assigned a VF-25S. ha!ha!

[Ork_dreadnought]

To quote Zapp Brannigan from Futurama:

"We have failed to uphold Brannigan's Law. However, I did make it with a hot alien babe. And in the end, is that not what Man has dreamt of since first he looked up at the stars?"

That youtube clip is canon?

[RedWolf]

That youtube clip is canon?

The music is.

Grace O'Connor's plans.

Plan 1: Create a Zentradi insurrection using Sheryl.: Not cleared

Plan 2: Get Vajra pissed at humans and Zentradi to attack Frontier: Cleared

Plan 3: Get Humans and Zentradi to hate Vajra by killing the 33rd fleet and Sheryl with a dimension eater: Cleared (But Grace doesn't know Sheryl is alive)

Grace is starting to sound like an the anti-Basara.

[jenius]

Do you guys really think that humans are going to blame Vajra for a planet being eaten like that? Does Frontier even know that the Vajra were there? I think the closest thing that would happen to that would be "We've lost contact with this planet." "Darn, something must have happened." Now, when they start analyzing what those 'something's could have been, a likely "possible" cause would be the Vajra. I would think it'd be more likely after the insurrection that the bigwigs on Frontier would deduce there was a little mutually assured destruction on the parts of the two Zentran factions (they were toting around reaction weapons). In fact, I'd go so far as to say that that was why Grace tried to induce the battle: so that she could destroy the planet and make it seem like the conflict caused everything to be wiped out there.

Besides, the humans and Zentrans already hate the Vajra, it didn't take the destruction of yet another human installation to get them really angry or something.

It's good to see that humans finally figured out how to use the super dimensional bomb without merging all sorts of dimensions together and causing a super dimensional century.

[s001]

Good? It's just like when they discovered the nuclear weapons plus the bad guys discovered it. How's that good?

[Master Dex]

Do you guys really think that humans are going to blame Vajra for a planet being eaten like that? Does Frontier even know that the Vajra were there? I think the closest thing that would happen to that would be "We've lost contact with this planet." "Darn, something must have happened." Now, when they start analyzing what those 'something's could have been, a likely "possible" cause would be the Vajra. I would think it'd be more likely after the insurrection that the bigwigs on Frontier would deduce there was a little mutually assured destruction on the parts of the two Zentran factions (they were toting around reaction weapons). In fact, I'd go so far as to say that that was why Grace tried to induce the battle: so that she could destroy the planet and make it seem like the conflict caused everything to be wiped out there.

Besides, the humans and Zentrans already hate the Vajra, it didn't take the destruction of yet another human installation to get them really angry or something.

It's good to see that humans finally figured out how to use the super dimensional bomb without merging all sorts of dimensions together and causing a super dimensional century.

Well that Vajra fleet left Gallia 4 directly to attack Frontier fleet. Lost contact with Gallia 4 and a sudden attack by the main Vajra fleet is going to seem like a very unlikely coincidence probably. They will think the Vajra were involved in the attack of Gallia 4. Also Michel and Sheryl will be arriving with the Vajra, they don't know what caused the Dimension Eater on the planet, they will probably assume it was the Vajra as well. Think about it, giant fleet of Vajra ships lifts off and then a giant dimension eating bomb goes off, without any knowledge as to who really set it off, it makes sense to assume the Vajra are the culprit.

[Gubaba]

Do you guys really think that humans are going to blame Vajra for a planet being eaten like that? Does Frontier even know that the Vajra were there? I think the closest thing that would happen to that would be "We've lost contact with this planet." "Darn, something must have happened." Now, when they start analyzing what those 'something's could have been, a likely "possible" cause would be the Vajra. I would think it'd be more likely after the insurrection that the bigwigs on Frontier would deduce there was a little mutually assured destruction on the parts of the two Zentran factions (they were toting around reaction weapons). In fact, I'd go so far as to say that that was why Grace tried to induce the battle: so that she could destroy the planet and make it seem like the conflict caused everything to be wiped out there.

Besides, the humans and Zentrans already hate the Vajra, it didn't take the destruction of yet another human installation to get them really angry or something.

It's good to see that humans finally figured out how to use the super dimensional bomb without merging all sorts of dimensions together and causing a super dimensional century.

But...but...I like Super Dimension Centuries! (Not so keen on Super Dimension Cavalries, however...)

Other than that, yeah, I agree with Master Dex. Planet with Zentradi gets toasted. Vajra fold from there to Frontier and attack Frontier. Whether it's logical or not, everyone on Frontier's going to think they know who's responsible...

[Mr March]

If Alto makes it back to the Macross Frontier fleet, I see no reason why the SMS/NUNS wouldn't think it was the Vajra that destroyed Gallia 4. Not only can both Alto and Ranka report what they saw transpire to the SMS/NUNS, but there should be a flight recorder and other sensor data in Alto's VF-25. If Mikhail and Sheryl make it back in the VF-25G, they can also confirm what happened.

[Gubaba]

If Alto makes it back to the Macross Frontier fleet, I see no reason why the SMS/NUNS wouldn't think it was the Vajra that destroyed Gallia 4. Not only can both Alto and Ranka report what they saw transpire to the SMS/NUNS, but there should be a flight recorder and other sensor data in Alto's VF-25. If Mikhail and Sheryl make it back in the VF-25G, they can also confirm what happened.

But they didn't see Grace or the Dimension Eater, right? AFAIK, they're as clueless about what happened as anybody else. Brera's appearance there is suspicious, but they can't say much beyond, "Well, that magenta fighter was there, so it all seems kind of fishy..."

Leon could probably put the pieces together, but would he do anything about it?

[Master Dex]

But they didn't see Grace or the Dimension Eater, right? AFAIK, they're as clueless about what happened as anybody else. Brera's appearance there is suspicious, but they can't say much beyond, "Well, that magenta fighter was there, so it all seems kind of fishy..."

Leon could probably put the pieces together, but would he do anything about it?

No Leon would just let them go and hate on the Vajra. It is seeming more and more like the Vajra were just angry with humans for something they did (something on the 113th fleet) and they are simply retaliating. To humans it seems like a random act of violence so we respond. Now Grace does this to spread Vajra hate. Either her goal is to have humans wipe out the Vajra, Vajra wipe out humans, or Mutually Assured Destruction. Why does Grace's faction want this? Who knows.

[NoNameSt11]

It all reminds me of WWII in a sense and the attack on Pearl Harbor. We didn't like what was going on but we weren't going to get actively involved until they attacked us first.

Just how Frontier and the rest of the NUNS has known about the Vajra but we weren't looking to pick an open fight with them. After framing the Vajra for the assault on Gallia 4 and now them attacking Frontier, I think it'll be an open declaration of war with atleast Frontier making strides to hunt down all Vajra colonies in the area.

[Mr March]

But they didn't see Grace or the Dimension Eater, right? AFAIK, they're as clueless about what happened as anybody else. Brera's appearance there is suspicious, but they can't say much beyond, "Well, that magenta fighter was there, so it all seems kind of fishy..."

Leon could probably put the pieces together, but would he do anything about it?

Exactly! Neither Alto nor Ranka are aware of Grace's activities. So who else are they gonna blame for Gallia 4's destruction but the Vajra?

And we're relying upon Leon to tell the truth? We're definitely in trouble, hehehe. Leon is either in league with Grace, Brera and Briler OR he's being used by them. In either case, there's no way that shifty son-of-a-BDI is going to come forward and help fill in the facts that Alto and Ranka might be getting wrong. So far he's done everything he can to help his co-conspirators cover it all up!

[Shadow Warrior]

someone suggest puppet bodies, which sounds very plausible to me.

So that would mean they are going to bring in Ghost in the Shell as well.

Macross Frontier = Macross+Aliens+Ghost in the Shell.

When's EVA going to show up?

Grace wil be back as she's the Big Bad of the show.

[kalvasflam]

The music is.

Grace O'Connor's plans.

Plan 1: Create a Zentradi insurrection using Sheryl.: Not cleared

Plan 2: Get Vajra pissed at humans and Zentradi to attack Frontier: Cleared

Plan 3: Get Humans and Zentradi to hate Vajra by killing the 33rd fleet and Sheryl with a dimension eater: Cleared (But Grace doesn't know Sheryl is alive)

Grace is starting to sound like an the anti-Basara.

May be Grace isn't quite the mastermind... I wouldn't be surprised if Luca turned out to be the evil genius, or at least part of the axis of evil. After all, if we go back to ep 7, he went through a lot of trouble to access the Vajra battle ship, and I think Brera was sent in to protect him. Note, Brera only went in after Luca was captured.

As far as Alto/Sheryl and company confirming what happened to the planet, I doubt if that matters after the Vajra went all out to kill Frontier. The war has started already, and the little niceties about how it started doesn't matter much any more. Sure, certain parties might get into trouble later, but it still doesn't make any difference since Vajra has been attacking since ep 1. So, let the war begin. But hopefully this won't end in another armistice with Vajra becoming the next Gubaba.

[jenius]

These theories are decent but something about them just doesn't add up. Grace doesn't need to do ANYTHING to instigate a Vajra/Human conflict. All things considered, the Vajra and the humans are already at war. If all she wanted to do was to cause another battle between Frontier and the Vajra then there had to be an easier way then blowing up a whole friggin' planet. Why do the Vajra get all uppity when Ranka sings on Frontier but they don't notice her until she goes to urinate (or what have you) on Galia IV? Also, maybe I'm being a bit too logical here, but how many weapons out there can do damage in the way that Super Dimensional Bomb does? Also, are weapons of mass destruction monitored in any way? Isn't a clerk somewhere at LAI going to notice that someone checked out a planet destroying bomb and forgot to check it back in? And if LAI is in on this then why do Luca's parents hate him so much? He seems like a sweet enough kid. None of this is meant to be criticism, I must suspect we have a lot more scratching to do before we get beyond the surface.

[Gubaba]

May be Grace isn't quite the mastermind... I wouldn't be surprised if Luca turned out to be the evil genius, or at least part of the axis of evil. After all, if we go back to ep 7, he went through a lot of trouble to access the Vajra battle ship, and I think Brera was sent in to protect him. Note, Brera only went in after Luca was captured.

I doubt Luca's the evil genius, but I do think he'll have some kind of conflict of loyalties coming up becfore long...

But hopefully this won't end in another armistice with Vajra becoming the next Gubaba.

I resent that.

[Master Dex]

These theories are decent but something about them just doesn't add up. Grace doesn't need to do ANYTHING to instigate a Vajra/Human conflict. All things considered, the Vajra and the humans are already at war. If all she wanted to do was to cause another battle between Frontier and the Vajra then there had to be an easier way then blowing up a whole friggin' planet. Why do the Vajra get all uppity when Ranka sings on Frontier but they don't notice her until she goes to urinate (or what have you) on Galia IV? Also, maybe I'm being a bit too logical here, but how many weapons out there can do damage in the way that Super Dimensional Bomb does? Also, are weapons of mass destruction monitored in any way? Isn't a clerk somewhere at LAI going to notice that someone checked out a planet destroying bomb and forgot to check it back in? And if LAI is in on this then why do Luca's parents hate him so much? He seems like a sweet enough kid. None of this is meant to be criticism, I must suspect we have a lot more scratching to do before we get beyond the surface.

Grace isn't trying to start a conflict, the conflict is already there. She is making it worse, making sure it will be hard to resolve the conflict without a huge war that will cost many lives. So far we have had a couple of battles and the reason for the Vajra doing this is unknown. The Vajra may look at the destruction of Gallia 4 as an attempt to destroy their hive and would suspect all humans are in on it. I'm sure LAI knows Grace took that bomb. And who said Luca's parents hate him? I never heard that before, we have never even seen Luca's parents to know what they think of him.

All in all though either was of looking at it is speculation, however Grace did say she wanted the hate to spread and she most likely meant hate for the Vajra and vice verse.

[Gubaba]

And who said Luca's parents hate him? I never heard that before, we have never even seen Luca's parents to know what they think of him.

I think jenius was just suggesting that Luca's parents are...how should I say it?...not exactly looking out for Luca's best interests if they want a big war with the Vajra, since he would be right there on the front lines.

[Master Dex]

I think jenius was just suggesting that Luca's parents are...how should I say it?...not exactly looking out for Luca's best interests if they want a big war with the Vajra, since he would be right there on the front lines.

I don't think his parents would know he is in a paramilitary group. It doesn't seem like something you advertise.

[Gubaba]

I don't think his parents would know he is in a paramilitary group. It doesn't seem like something you advertise.

Definitely a possibility. Won't they be upset when they find out!

[Strumvogel]

Things are currently in motion and the people involved aren't going to get a chance to take stock of what's happening until they could somehow gain some breathing space away from the massive engagement next episode. So I'm willing to let that pay out first though I'm currently more interested in whether Alto managed to pick anything up when he plugged into the ship's console. (watched the raws but haven't got the subs yet, waiting for Lunar)

Edited July 6, 2008 by Strumvogel

[UN Spacy]

Lunar's mkv and avi are out!

[Master Dex]

Things are currently in motion and the people involed aren't going to get a chance to take stock of what's happening until they could somehow gain some breathing space away from the massive engagement next episode. So I'm willing to let that pay out first though I'm currently more interested in whether Alto managed to pick anything up when he plugged into the ship's console. (watched the raws but haven't got the subs yet, waiting for Lunar)

All the data in the computer was erased recently as Alto says, so he didn't get anything.

[Strumvogel]

All the data in the computer was erased recently as Alto says, so he didn't get anything.

Damn. I suppose the writers think it's still to early to reveal anything about the 117th yet. Fair enough. I actually more curious about them than just what Grace's intentions are right now.

Lunar's mkv and avi are out!

Damn that was quick. I just checked 45 mins ago. Unfortunately I'm away from my primary machine so that's going to have to wait till I get back home.

[HMP_Goose]

Lunar's out . . .

[darkrealmbahamut]

Lunar's out . . .

DLing it right now!

[Mr March]

It's just current circumstances. We so far know nothing about the Vajra nor who's behind them. What are the Vajra? Who leads them? Why did they attack the NUNS 11 years ago and now in 2059? What are their goals?

In fact, the Vajra could be a totally benevolent species, being manipulated into a war with the SMS/NUNS by Grace and her cohorts. Or the NUNS 117th Research Fleet could have stumbled upon a Vajra hive and their "research" was interpreted as an attack. And like myself and others have said, the Vajra could still be a Macross Galaxy creation (done right or gone wrong). Or perhaps LAI made the Vajra. Quite frankly, the circumstances of this war in Macross Frontier could be anything at this point.

All we know for sure are the events we see on screen and what the more "mysterious" characters are doing as chronicled in these episodes thus far. We all knew Grace was more than she appeared, but even I was surprised she was quite this insidious. Perhaps Grace, Brera and Brilrer know about the Vajra but are preventing anyone else from knowing about them. Perhaps Grace, Brera and Brilrer don't know about the Vajra, but see them as an opportunity to accomplish their own nefarious purposes. Who knows?

Just have to keep watching and find out. If Macross Frontier turns out great, then all the answers we need to fulfill the plot will be revealed. If not, then we will have been screwed again by taking a chance on Frontier. That's the way it works.

[jenius]

I think jenius was just suggesting that Luca's parents are...how should I say it?...not exactly looking out for Luca's best interests if they want a big war with the Vajra, since he would be right there on the front lines.

Yep, that was exactly where I was going with the supposition that LAI is involved in something fishy here. Regardless of whether or not Luca's family knows what Luca is doing on Frontier they know he's there in some capacity. Heck, they're even letting him borrow fold equipment. I would also guess that his family would be well aware of his activities with SMS. He explained in the last episode how his involvement with SMS is right up his family's alley to Leon. Now, if the next episode starts with Luca being sent away from Frontier just before the Vajra show up then I'd think that'd cement some evil LAI involvement.

[Taylor_VFA122]

I didn't read all of this thread so I dont know if it was mentioned before. But I watched the Raw when this episode came out, and have been reading about the "Why does Brera hate Alto?" posts that frequent it or not. But, did anyone catch the flashback that occurs (it was like "black and white") of Ranka when she was younger with her parents and they're holding what looks like a little boy? Is it possible that Brera is related to Ranka? I mean he did save her once.

[jenius]

Yes, there seems to be a strong likelihood that Ranka and Brera are related. She's called him 'brother' a couple times and he's familiar with the song Ranka is familiar with. In the subs Brera tells Alto he's not good enough for Ranka which seems more like a brotherly defense than jealousy or hatred.

Edited July 6, 2008 by jenius

[VF-25 Messiah]

I didn't read all of this thread so I dont know if it was mentioned before. But I watched the Raw when this episode came out, and have been reading about the "Why does Brera hate Alto?" posts that frequent it or not. But, did anyone catch the flashback that occurs (it was like "black and white") of Ranka when she was younger with her parents and they're holding what looks like a little boy? Is it possible that Brera is related to Ranka? I mean he did save her once.

While being more or less subtle about it in earlier episodes, I think they were more or less shouting it out in this episode. I mean you can all but clearly see the boy is a younger Brera during the flashback, he even has the harmonica. He also appears in the family photo crystal (again with a partly obscured face). So yes I'd say the odds of them being related are very high indeed.

[jenius]

I think Dr Mao was a scientist and Brera and Ranka are her creations more than her children