Max Jenius Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Negative. I'd like the series to stand on it's own without taunting us with similarities to previous episodes. It screams "C3PO was really built by young Anakin Skywalker" to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethalzero Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 An external something like that queen Vajra we just met methinks. isnt it odd, that the queen died easily because of strayed projectiles..episode 13 me thinks of a bigger twist..maybe someone from the ranks of NUNS or leon.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Did the queen die though or just get really ticked off? didn't the queen in Aliens get banged up and she just shed her egg making equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 isnt it odd, that the queen died easily because of strayed projectiles..episode 13 me thinks of a bigger twist..maybe someone from the ranks of NUNS or leon.. The queen didn't die, it just got hit by one shot and got really pissy and then made all the Vajra ships lift off. There is nothing to suggest that queen died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 isnt it odd, that the queen died easily because of strayed projectiles..episode 13 me thinks of a bigger twist..maybe someone from the ranks of NUNS or leon.. I don't think that we saw the queen die. Brera's stray shot certainly hits the queen and goes through the crystals but I think the queen herself may have survived. Like when Ripley destroys the egg sac in Aliens but the queen herself survives and detaches herself from it. We will have to wait and see. Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethalzero Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 We will have to wait and see. Taksraven yeah... i guess so.. sorry for misinterpretation cant wait for the next episode.. so when will it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMP_Goose Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 How many people, even from Galaxy, have the right cyberware to jumpstart a Dimension Eater (a L.A.I. product)? What are the ties between L.A.I. and Galaxy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 The red and yellow ones don't have a 'brain'. They're more like worker ants, suggesting that there's a Queen in existence making orders. We don't know about the yellow hammerheads yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 How bout Space Whale ending? If it's got a song as great as "Angel Voice" accompanying it, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 After watching the subs, i have a theory that Grace is trying to incite a war amongst the human/zents and the Vajra. The Vajra may probably under normal circumstances won't attack humans. Does the green thing or the crab-thing look like it could hurt humans? The Dimension Eater was to aggro the vajra and at the same time wipe out the 33rd so both the vajra and humans will think the other side was responsible. With war, LAI profits? i dunnno. I think it's a great theory. I posted (either in this thread or another one) that the Vajra could very well be a benevolent race that is being used by Grace and her cohorts for some nefarious purpose. Though I didn't make the capitalist connection until you mentioned it. Now it makes a LOT of sense. The SMS, Alto uttering "capitalism" under his breathe in an earlier episode, the ever-present but heretofore "unspoken" role of the LAI corporation; it sure does make a nice unifying theory. We're definitely on to something here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley424 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Just watched the episode a second time. I thought it was pretty good. The Alto Ranka relationship deepens, but Sheryl isn't going down without a fight I like how the WTF-1 Global was presented; homages to SDF:M for us older fans with minimal retcon of the series. Looks to me like Ranka has one of those purple crystals implanted into her body whereas Sheryl has the earrings. This is my explanation for why Ranka seems to influence the Vajra whereas Sheryl does not. I was a little disappointed to see how badly Alto fares against Brera, but then again, Alto is still pretty raw when it comes to piloting a valk. Also, Brera's VF-27 seems to have a BDS type system and the dude is a cyborg. Either way, next episode will be EPIC and the Brera - Alto showdown will be just as epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I've been saying that is what my theory is. I agree completely that Grace set this up to "spread the hate" between NUNS and the Vajra in order for war. Also considering LAI gives technology to SMS and to Grace's faction it does seem even more likely they are going for war profits indeed. Luca won't be very happy with his family soon. yeah, that's also the clear impression i got. grace was starting a war between the fleet and the vajra. as for the purpose, no way to tell yet. i'm just wondering what grace meant when she said "good luck to my friends in frontier". did she mean it as "good luck, i hope you kill them bugs", or "good luck, you're gonna need it, coz you're as good as dead."? hmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 yeah, that's also the clear impression i got. grace was starting a war between the fleet and the vajra. as for the purpose, no way to tell yet. i'm just wondering what grace meant when she said "good luck to my friends in frontier". did she mean it as "good luck, i hope you kill them bugs", or "good luck, you're gonna need it, coz you're as good as dead."? hmmm.... I assumed it was the latter...but we all know what they say about why you should never assume... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I think it's a great theory. I posted (either in this thread or another one) that the Vajra could very well be a benevolent race that is being used by Grace and her cohorts for some nefarious purpose. Though I didn't make the capitalist connection until you mentioned it. Now it makes a LOT of sense. The SMS, Alto uttering "capitalism" under his breathe in an earlier episode, the ever-present but heretofore "unspoken" role of the LAI corporation; it sure does make a nice unifying theory. We're definitely on to something here. I personally hope there's more to it and that my theory is wrong cause it feels kinda cliche. But it does look that way now. Leonne looks like a corrupt government official after all. Right now i'm thinking the Vajra are like the "Buggers"/Formics from Ender's Game who are just a misunderstood species. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_Quee...der%27s_Game%29 Hell even the Fold Communications Crystal things might be the queen's means of real-time communications with her other Vajra soldiers just like the ansible system in Ender's Game. (though Ender's Game wasn't the first one that introduced the concept) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) I personally hope there's more to it and that my theory is wrong cause it feels kinda cliche. But it does look that way now. Leonne looks like a corrupt government official after all. Right now i'm thinking the Vajra are like the "Buggers"/Formics from Ender's Game who are just a misunderstood species. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_Quee...der%27s_Game%29 Hell even the Fold Communications Crystal things might be the queen's means of real-time communications with her other Vajra soldiers just like the ansible system in Ender's Game. (though Ender's Game wasn't the first one that introduced the concept) i agree. like i posted earlier, i've been getting this ender's gamer vibe for a while now. with the vajra as the formics. (hmm.. is it a coincidence that the main pilots/protagonists are all in one school... a battle school, perhaps? ) the thing about the purple crystal giving instantaneous fold capability, and the fold communication network does seem to have parallels with the philotic/ansible communication system. In fact, when I saw the dimension eater in action, the first thing i thought was, "MD Device!!" and i also agree that while the LAI-war profit angle is a possibility, i would rather they not go there. it's old news. and if all this brouhaha about vajra and humans was, ultimately, all about LAI's making a profit out of war, it would be disappointing for me. and not at all very macrossy (it's more in the realm of gundam, actually). Edited July 8, 2008 by dreamweaver13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'm still hoping we don't get a capitalism = evil storyline here. That's storyline is as old as capitalism itself. I'm still holding out hope that the 117th stumbled upon something and now someone is either out to discover it or bury it permanently. There are lots of issues though. Do we know if the VF-27 is also a LAI product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Just watched the episode a second time. I thought it was pretty good. The Alto Ranka relationship deepens, but Sheryl isn't going down without a fight I like how the WTF-1 Global was presented; homages to SDF:M for us older fans with minimal retcon of the series. What retcon? You can't retcon something that's never before been shown or documented... Some people are like a dog with a tennis ball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I think it's a great theory. I posted (either in this thread or another one) that the Vajra could very well be a benevolent race that is being used by Grace and her cohorts for some nefarious purpose. Though I didn't make the capitalist connection until you mentioned it. Now it makes a LOT of sense. The SMS, Alto uttering "capitalism" under his breathe in an earlier episode, the ever-present but heretofore "unspoken" role of the LAI corporation; it sure does make a nice unifying theory. We're definitely on to something here. Maybe. The thing that I'm still puzzled about is why did the Vajra attack the Global in the first place? Is this like SAAB where the corporation knew the warnings but sent people anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 i agree. like i posted earlier, i've been getting this ender's gamer vibe for a while now. with the vajra as the formics. (hmm.. is it a coincidence that the main pilots/protagonists are all in one school... a battle school, perhaps? ) the thing about the purple crystal giving instantaneous fold capability, and the fold communication network does seem to have parallels with the philotic/ansible communication system. In fact, when I saw the dimension eater in action, the first thing i thought was, "MD Device!!" and i also agree that while the LAI-war profit angle is a possibility, i would rather they not go there. it's old news. and if all this brouhaha about vajra and humans was, ultimately, all about LAI's making a profit out of war, it would be disappointing for me. and not at all very macrossy (it's more in the realm of gundam, actually). Glad to see someone else noticed the parallels with Ender's Game. Here's hoping Sivil will make an appearance and save everyone wit her screaming singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Maybe. The thing that I'm still puzzled about is why did the Vajra attack the Global in the first place? Is this like SAAB where the corporation knew the warnings but sent people anyway? To save its then infant queen from being kidnapped for research/profit? I'm guessing its a Weyland-Yutani thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Maybe. The thing that I'm still puzzled about is why did the Vajra attack the Global in the first place? Is this like SAAB where the corporation knew the warnings but sent people anyway? well, if the vajra found out that some of them were being experimented on by the Global, they wouldn't think twice of attacking. following from the premise of vajra as an intelligent yet peaceful species, possible scenario: human fleet discovers creature; thinks it's just an animal species, experiments on it; discovers too late that it is an intelligent species capable of space warfare; vajra attacks the Global; some survivors desire revenge or to erase their mistakes. that premise could also branch into the following scenario: vajra and the 117th fleet discover each other as intelligent species; cooperate and study each other (maybe hybrids were made at one point); a double cross happened, or a misunderstanding caused by the 117th fleet; vajra attacks Global. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 HOLY SHI-!!!!!! EXACTLY how I felt at the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'm still hoping we don't get a capitalism = evil storyline here. That's storyline is as old as capitalism itself. I'm still holding out hope that the 117th stumbled upon something and now someone is either out to discover it or bury it permanently. There are lots of issues though. Do we know if the VF-27 is also a LAI product? Apparently not as LAI techs could not figure out why it can go in such speed and manueverability without killing its pilot. And it has the Macross Galaxy sigil on it. It's performance and wing configuration make me think Galaxy General was one of the sponsors of Macross Galaxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 What retcon? You can't retcon something that's never before been shown or documented... Some people are like a dog with a tennis ball... I consider the "1st generation macross class" to be retcon. Though not explicitly mentioned to exist, there were other parts of the universe that don't jive with this sudden introduction. Like the SDF warships being discontinued to make way for the Megaroads for colonisation, the needless gimmick for transformation of the 1GMC etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I consider the "1st generation macross class" to be retcon. Though not explicitly mentioned to exist, there were other parts of the universe that don't jive with this sudden introduction. Like the SDF warships being discontinued to make way for the Megaroads for colonisation, the needless gimmick for transformation of the 1GMC etc. To be fair, there's nothing IN THE ANIMATION ITSELF to deny the existence of other SDF-1 Macross types of ships, but the supplementary material (as you say) does seem to be against it (IIRC, some of us went through similar conniptions when the VF-0 was introduced...). Plus, to me, it just seemed intuitive that a reverse engineered and rebuilt alien space ship would end up being one-of-a-kind. But I guess not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 To be fair, there's nothing IN THE ANIMATION ITSELF to deny the existence of other SDF-1 Macross types of ships, but the supplementary material (as you say) does seem to be against it (IIRC, some of us went through similar conniptions when the VF-0 was introduced...). Plus, to me, it just seemed intuitive that a reverse engineered and rebuilt alien space ship would end up being one-of-a-kind. But I guess not. They were going to build an even bigger one. But vhanged their minds and reconfigure it to a colony ship. It didn't mean they didn't keep the design for later use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 They were going to build an even bigger one. But vhanged their minds and reconfigure it to a colony ship. It didn't mean they didn't keep the design for later use. Yeah, I know. But "bigger" would necessarily mean "different in some way," wouldn't it? The Global looked EXACTLY the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Plus, to me, it just seemed intuitive that a reverse engineered and rebuilt alien space ship would end up being one-of-a-kind. But I guess not. i tell you, these post SW-1 humans have no respect for warfare icons! no sir. you have the perfect symbol of human victory, and you degrade it by making tons of others like it, just to be blown up or buried somewhere? tsk, tsk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) Would LAI really profit, or would the numerous corporations on the Galaxy? Maybe the 27 is made by corporations on Galaxy from stolen technology from LAI, that would explain why LAI was surprised when they studied it. Also, did anyone notice that bastard Leon trimming his nails? LOL. I think LAI and Frontier are the underdog, with Grace indirectly getting the Vajra to wipe out Frontier/LAI while Galaxy profts and steals LAI technology from the remains of the Frontier afterwards, and then wiping out the Vajra soon afterwards. The Frontier/Vajra remain a mystery, Galaxy is praised as a survivor and even more red tape runs about. Edited July 8, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Is this like SAAB where the corporation knew the warnings but sent people anyway? AGAIN with the Space: Above and Beyond........!!!! :rolleyes: As long as nobody mentions Seaquest:DSV...........oops!!!!! Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 AGAIN with the Space: Above and Beyond........!!!! :rolleyes: As long as nobody mentions Seaquest:DSV...........oops!!!!! Taksraven At least no one's mentioned "Manimal" yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 What retcon? You can't retcon something that's never before been shown or documented... Some people are like a dog with a tennis ball... Its pointless to speculate about retcons with Macross anyway, since we have both SDF:M AND DYRL as true stories about Space War I. (Don't give me any garbage about DYRL being "just" a movie in the Macross universe, as we have discussed before it would seem that SK is happy to draw on both the tv series AND the movie in making his shows. I have no problem with this, but as I say, it really makes speculation about retcons pointless.) Essentially, very little is written in stone about Macross. Its like Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy in which every version (radio program, tv series, movies, books and even the vinyl LP's) is different and conflicting with each other but they are all equally valid. Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) At least no one's mentioned "Manimal" yet... wow. dude, that is just... duuude, manimal?? suddenly getting painful flashbacks of a black panther.... the same frickin black panther over and over again.... Edited July 8, 2008 by dreamweaver13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 wow. dude, that is just... duuude, manimal?? suddenly getting painful flashbacks of a black panther.... the same frickin black panther over and over again.... Ha! I defy you to top that one WITHOUT resorting to Sid and Marty Kroft productions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) Its pointless to speculate about retcons with Macross anyway, since we have both SDF:M AND DYRL as true stories about Space War I. (Don't give me any garbage about DYRL being "just" a movie in the Macross universe, as we have discussed before it would seem that SK is happy to draw on both the tv series AND the movie in making his shows. I have no problem with this, but as I say, it really makes speculation about retcons pointless.) Essentially, very little is written in stone about Macross. Its like Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy in which every version (radio program, tv series, movies, books and even the vinyl LP's) is different and conflicting with each other but they are all equally valid. Taksraven yeah, but why call it garbage? harsh. i actually love the concept of DYRL being a movie within the universe. brilliant, IMO. at least macross made the effort of harmonizing the two. other anime franchises (e.g. Escaflowne, X, End of Eva) just leave the audience on their own to puzzle over which is which. Edited July 8, 2008 by dreamweaver13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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