Off Topic Forum

[Duke Togo]

"Anime & Science Fiction", it is not. Can we finally just admit its an off topic forum, and move on? Playing favorites with the off topic subjects the administrative and moderation staff like, and one killing the ones they don't is a smack in the face to many of the members here. Can we finally have one, solid rule governing this forum?

[Mowe]

Kind of agree, better consistency would be nice...but it is their playground…, let’s see where this one leads to.

[JsARCLIGHT]

A pure "off topic" section invites a slew of other problems that I don't think the administration wants to deal with right now. Of the few message boards I have been on and been part of the moderation team on, two of them had no such animal as an "off topic" area. They where small boards, easily patrolled and very clean and efficient. Then one day someone wanted an "off topic" section so the administration created one. One year later the new "off topic" section called "general discussion" became the largest part of that message board. In fact, for every one post in a normal section of the board the general discussion section had ten posts. It quickly went out of control with people posting all sorts of nonsense in that section from "what I had for lunch" to "does this look infected" to "why is the sky blue". I see MW sliding that way now. Other Anime dominates the post numbers on this board to a good degree. Opening the section up more invites trouble.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is. It's a message board... things get locked and deleted all the time while other things stay open. The last few topics I locked in Other Anime where protest threads... people making threads protesting the exsistence of another thread. I'd say if enough people had problems with how the section was run then we should just eliminate it completely, because no matter what we do someone will complain. Kind of like the constitution, I feel Roy worded the "rules" for the Other Anime section very carefully to allow us the ability to control the section from becoming a massive free-for-all pig tossing contest... and sometimes that means stepping on toes.

[Hurin]

Awww hell no!

[EXO]

Can we finally have one, solid rule governing this forum?

392346[/snapback]

Why do we have to be such nazis over a message board? I looked the topics over and it seemed ok to me. I almost locked the Engrish thread last night before this one popped up, but I figured, since none of the other mods deemed it lock-worthy then I shouldn't either... that's solidarity! What's the big deal anyway? No one is forcing you to look into those topics.

I don't get people that think MW will go down to hell in a hand basket just because it's not being ran their way... this isn't burger king.

[EXO]

Awww hell no!

392370[/snapback]

fortunately, Macross Nexxus is there for everyone else...

[Roy Focker]

Of 40 Topic in the other Sci-fi/Anime section currently on my first read page. About 19 roughly 50% are not directly related to Sci-fi/Anime but are typically those topics of interests among geeks and even pop culture. Video games, the latest movie coming this summer, toys unrelated to Macross or sci-fi. A hit TV show. The order of importance of what stays is Macross, Anime/Sci-fi. The farther a topic goes away from those the less chance it has of being closed.

Was one of Togo's topics recently closed or something?

[JsARCLIGHT]

Not speaking for Togo but this has been a running issue with a few members in the Other Anime section for quite a while. I think the core issue at hand that bugs DT is the whole notion of "who decides who lives and who dies"... I think he and a few others would rather have a hard and fast rule rather than the "whim of a mod", which is what seems to be eating everyone up lately.

[azrael]

Perhaps we should expand the description of that section to just. Most of the chatting in there is A) anime, B) Sci-Fi, C) TVs or movies, D) models and toys, E) Gaming consoles, F) mechanics (cars, engines, etc) and electronics, G) Computing, H) everything else that is somewhat related to the previously mentioned (i.e. geek talk).

Expanding the description would probably be the best course of action if any is taken. Off-topic discussions are prone to be mindless and a waste of space so even I would say no to an off-topic section.

[Hurin]

Awww hell no!

392370[/snapback]

fortunately, Macross Nexxus is there for everyone else...

392375[/snapback]

True. But much to the dismay of some, we won't be having an off-topic forum either. It's a terrible idea. No offense to DT.

BTW, MN Forums are on a roll! We've had one post this week!

Edited April 19, 2006 by Hurin

[Sumdumgai]

Works alright the way it does. It's not like we have raging insane psychotic dictator mods (apologies to any mods who want to be viewed that way ), so leaving it up to the discretion of the council of mods on when the thread of life of a thread is to be snipped seems like a good idea to me.

[Die, Alien Scum!]

It quickly went out of control with people posting all sorts of nonsense in that section from "what I had for lunch" to "does this look infected" to "why is the sky blue".

392365[/snapback]

I was a member of another forum that had an off-topic section and experienced the same kind of stupid topics you mention. Sadly, the mods there didn't seem to care and almost never closed any of them. Probably the worst part was that political and religious arguements raged on until it turned into a big name-calling fest that reminded me of little kids on the playground screaming, "My dad could kick your dad's ass!" It quickly became chaos and I left, and never looked back.

Personally, I don't care if we have some topics that aren't really "Other Anime/Sci-Fi"-related. If I have no interest in them, I don't read them. And I certainly don't waste my time and others' by posting in them. But I do think it would be a mistake to have an official "Off-Topic" section. That could potentially create a lot more problems than it would solve.

[Mr March]

I think it speaks very highly of the community members that they want a more diverse "general discussions" forum. I've often pondered what thoughts my fellow members may have on a number of interesting topics, typically music and literature. The fact that I even care means I enjoy the community here and value the opinions of many members.

However, it's clear the MW staff do not want MW to become a a heavy traffic zone with more discussions not directly relating to Macross. This is certainly their right and given the narrow focus of the website in general, I see no reason why a forum for much broader discussion should exist. MacrossWorld is designed for more specialized discussion of Macross and the franchise aspects, not to satisfy the need to chat. I probably don't need to mention cost at this point.

Perhaps some more accurate terminology is required for the definition of the forum but beyond that I don't think much has to change.

[Gundamhead]

Or you use PM.

[Duke Togo]

Here is an idea: Action, Adventure, & Anime

Boom! Forum renamed, problem solved. Cars, guns, movies, video games, and anime... all covered under this umbrella.

[yellowlightman]

I think it speaks very highly of the community members that they want a more diverse "general discussions" forum.  I've often pondered what thoughts my fellow members may have on a number of interesting topics, typically music and literature.  The fact that I even care means I enjoy the community here and value the opinions of many members.

392492[/snapback]

I look at it the exact same way. Frankly, given how stagnant Macross is right now I really don't see the harm in having an off-topic section.

[Phalanx]

IMHO, I think it would be good to have an off topic forum because we can discuss culture, music, history, pop culture, current events and politcs and that way, we can learn more about each other and talk about things and issues that are bothering us. Or for a solution nobody hasn' t suggested, make another off topic section for things like culture and politcs and keep the Anime and Sci-Fi related stuff in that forum. Think of it a s a win/win situation for both sides.

[EXO]

Was there a problem?

[Guppy]

Look I have to kiss arse for once and agree with the mods. I acutally like the 'who decides' line. We're not a bunch of 15 year olds. Face it, our hobby is over 20 years old so WE'RE old too. I don't want to turn up to MW to find adolecent-level threads started to attract attention rather than post something interesting. I enjoy topics about new tech, internet ephemera, pop culture etc but not 'hey look at me post the entire contents of my favourite stupid website/blog' thread.

At the risk of sounding like a commie I believe 95% of us are on the same wavelength about the calibre of threads in the Sci Fi section.

[JKeats]

Face it, our hobby is over 20 years old so WE'RE old too.

392664[/snapback]

::Starts crying::

[Gaijin]

Completely Off Topic in addition to being interesting invites a host of crap threads waiting to be born.

Off topic

Edited April 20, 2006 by Gaijin

[David Hingtgen]

I'll quickly chime in that I think it's fine how it is and shouldn't change. Second point is that nothing ruins a forum faster than discussing politics. Most every board I go to has a "no politics/religion" rule, and the only one that doesn't is 10x crazier than the others put together.

[Mr March]

I'd just like to pop in for a moment and defend debates of politics/religion from some unwarranted demonization.

There is nothing wrong with political/religious debates and the fact that these debates are so heated means they are among the most important issues worthy of discussion. Like abortion, homosexuality, environmentalism, ideology, etc, the only way people learn is through debate. Maybe political/religious discussions aren't appropriate for YOUR website, but many message boards function just fine with the debates and they allow discourse over subjects more important than Macross.

Having said that, I don't believe MacrossWorld should become such a forum. Number one, the website owners don't want their anime fansite to become a discussion destination for politics/religion and rightly so! Number two, the decorum for MacrossWorld has long been set and should remain the way it is, a hobby website for discussing hobbies. Number three, the staff don't know how to moderate political/religious discussions and the members don't know how to properly conduct themselves in the debates. So for all these reasons, I think it's wise to steer clear.

Plus, I do enjoy visiting MacrossWorld for a more calm, relaxing atmosphere

Edited April 20, 2006 by Mr March

[Phalanx]

Now that I think about, if we were to make the OFF-TOPIC section indefinetly off topic then the forum will be flooded with cultural and politcal garbage and that will cause too much controversy. So I think that as long as it relates to anime, sci-fi, science, technology and stuff chances are that user topics may stay without having to be locked or deleted.

[JsARCLIGHT]

the staff don't know how to moderate political/religious discussions and the members don't know how to properly conduct themselves in the debates.  So for all these reasons, I think it's wise to steer clear.

392763[/snapback]

Heh, I think that just reading the REGULAR topics around here.

[Mr March]

*snip*

Heh, I think that just reading the REGULAR topics around here.

392781[/snapback]

We're not that bad, are we?

[JsARCLIGHT]

Every message board has it's share of constant sh!t disturbers. I've only been a mod on two boards, this one and one other one and the other board I almost don't think of as a message board anymore because it has limited membership... in other words the owner of the board controls who is a member and can post and who can't, it isn't "open to the public", which really cuts down on the "random jackass factor" if you know what I mean.

I have no doubt that the majority of MW's membership could maintain a calm, intelligent and collected use of a pure OT forum but it's that darn 1% that worries me. On some subjects on here there always seems to be a kid just waiting to push you off your bike if you follow my analogy... and sometimes the grumpier members decide they are going to just go shoving people because they feel like it or they'll sit down in the middle of the table of a calm discussion and start screaming just because the topic is not something they feel like talking about. MW has surprised me with both it's maturity, diversity and intelligence but at the same time it has embarrased me with it's immaturity, myopicy and pettiness. And because of that I feel that sections like the Other Anime section must remain sort of "controlled" in just the right way as to walk the line of open discussion and anarchy.

Back on topic... In all truth, we could claim just about anything with the Other Anime section... we could come out and call it an OT section if we liked... but at the end of the day the notion that the forum is controlled by the "whims" of the mods and admins remains. I know it urks some people to high hell and back but no matter how open or closed a forum's posting guidelines are to some degree what stays and what goes is up to the staff and I'm sure a simple section name change will not do much to alter that. It's just my opinion but changing the section name from Other Anime to This, That and The Other Thing simply just grants "paper legitimacy" to the exsisting topics that sort of defy the Other Anime label... it doesn't do anything to allow any new topics or prevent the staff from stopping a topic they do not want to continue due to one reason or another. I'd like to hope topics are not closed just because someone in power "doesn't like" that subject. Lord knows there are about ten topics on the main page of Other Anime right now I would close just because I have no interest in them... but I'm not going to do that. I don't see that as my "main" job. My main job is to keep the peace and enforce the "laws" of MW. Simply put, I'm a cop. Some people will like me but a lot of people will think I'm just here to hassle them and ruin their fun. I try my best to be fair and friendly to everyone and their threads and I hope that what I do on here is seen that way but let's face it, some topics just don't belong here and I'll close them. I'd like to think I have a more liberal view of the Other Anime section than some other mods but then again if another mod wants something gone I support them... and if they want something to stay I support that decision as well. It's not like it's a mass conspiracy to lock threads and burn puppies.

All I ask of the membership is to not take everything so seriously. Sometimes a thread will live, sometimes it will die. I'd like to hope that when I lock something all the people reading it agree with me that it needed it, but I know that is not always true... or EVER true for that matter.

Edited April 20, 2006 by JsARCLIGHT

[JB0]

It quickly went out of control with people posting all sorts of nonsense in that section from "what I had for lunch" to "does this look infected" to "why is the sky blue".

DID it look infected?

I'd just like to pop in for a moment and defend debates of politics/religion from some unwarranted demonization.

There is nothing wrong with political/religious debates and the fact that these debates are so heated means they are among the most important issues worthy of discussion.  Like abortion, homosexuality, environmentalism, ideology, etc, the only way people learn is through debate.  Maybe political/religious discussions aren't appropriate for YOUR website, but many message boards function just fine with the debates and they allow discourse over subjects more important than Macross.

Personally speaking, I don't think any actual discussion happens in politics/religion threads.

All the politics threads I've ever seen rapidly degenerate into monkeys throwing feces at each other because someone isn't towing someone else's party's line. Everyone with something genuinely intelligent to say rapidly learns to avoid those threads while the die-hard party spokesmen brag about how often they've had intercourse with the other side's female parent, who also happens to be of the canine persuasion.

Religion threads are a lot the same, only it's not even possible to make a solid argument if the peanut gallery DOES shut up and let the grown-ups talk. There's no concrete evidence anyone can cite to prove their argument is right(And yes, this applies to the atheists too).

Number three, the staff don't know how to moderate political/religious discussions

Sure they do. Lock on sight.

[Twoducks]

I'd just like to pop in for a moment and defend debates of politics/religion from some unwarranted demonization.

There is nothing wrong with political/religious debates and the fact that these debates are so heated means they are among the most important issues worthy of discussion.  Like abortion, homosexuality, environmentalism, ideology, etc, the only way people learn is through debate.  Maybe political/religious discussions aren't appropriate for YOUR website, but many message boards function just fine with the debates and they allow discourse over subjects more important than Macross.

Having said that, I don't believe MacrossWorld should become such a forum.  Number one, the website owners don't want their anime fansite to become a discussion destination for politics/religion and rightly so!  Number two, the decorum for MacrossWorld has long been set and should remain the way it is, a hobby website for discussing hobbies.  Number three, the staff don't know how to moderate political/religious discussions and the members don't know how to properly conduct themselves in the debates.  So for all these reasons, I think it's wise to steer clear.

Plus, I do enjoy visiting MacrossWorld for a more calm, relaxing atmosphere

392763[/snapback]

Ditto (specially on that last sentence).

I can see what DT says. From the posters point of view, there are certain things that you don't know if they can be posted or not seeing as the section has stuff that really stretches the "Anime & Science Fiction" name (the gun and automotive threads for example).

People who want, lets say a basketball thread, could make a poll in the feedback section and if enough people vote for it the mods could create it in the "Anime & Science Fiction" section labelling it "Official MW sanctioned Bball discussion thread" or something similar.

Here is an idea: Action, Adventure, & Anime

Boom! Forum renamed, problem solved. Cars, guns, movies, video games, and anime... all covered under this umbrella.

392538[/snapback]

It could also be renamed "NonMacross-Geekness related geek discussion"

[JB0]

People who want, lets say a basketball thread, could make a poll in the feedback section and if enough people vote for it the mods could create it in the "Anime & Science Fiction" section labelling it "Official MW sanctioned Bball discussion thread" or something similar.

Or they could just start it and see if it gets locked. Doesn't hurt to try.

[EXO]

Ditto (specially on that last sentence).

I can see what DT says. From the posters point of view, there are certain things that you don't know if they can be posted or not seeing as the section has stuff that really stretches the "Anime & Science Fiction" name (the gun and automotive threads for example).

People who want, lets say a basketball thread, could make a poll in the feedback section and if enough people vote for it the mods could create it in the "Anime & Science Fiction" section labelling it "Official MW sanctioned Bball discussion thread" or something similar.

392815[/snapback]

There's always going to be a couple of topics allowed that are beyond the given spectrum. Once you widen that spectrum then the liberty taken for OT stuff will widen too. I dont really care if the title of the section is changed, in fact my apathy is taken aback by the fact that people DO care. Maybe some people need more of a life to not worry about such things.

[Roy Focker]

This is Macross World after all. Macross is the central focus and theme of every thing here. If talking on end about Macross is getting boring for some cause Macross is currently stagnant then its time from them to move on. This site and message board are pretty subject specfic.

When we were smaller there was a lot more OT but people abused it and we got larger.

Religion and Politics I'll be happy to discuss them but the problem are two kinds of people.

One person who says some thing with no respect for others beliefs and another person who takes offensive at the slightly hint of disrespect to their beliefs.

The insensitives and the oversensitives.

The former will offend even the moderates and the later is offended by the moderates.

[Mr March]

*snip*

Personally speaking, I don't think any actual discussion happens in politics/religion threads.

All the politics threads I've ever seen rapidly degenerate into monkeys throwing feces at each other because someone isn't towing someone else's party's line. Everyone with something genuinely intelligent to say rapidly learns to avoid those threads while the die-hard party spokesmen brag about how often they've had intercourse with the other side's female parent, who also happens to be of the canine persuasion.

Religion threads are a lot the same, only it's not even possible to make a solid argument if the peanut gallery DOES shut up and let the grown-ups talk.  There's no concrete evidence anyone can cite to prove their argument is right (And yes, this applies to the atheists too).

392813[/snapback]

The value in debate is the debate itself. There is much to be learned about oneself and others when engaged in debate, regardless of any tangible outcome. When I debated in college groups and on the old dialup BBS before the internet came around, it was an experience that helped me grow immeasurably during my late teens to early twenties.

It's been my experience that the most important knowledge is that which is learned through debate. Defiantly proclaiming no one has any proof of anything is helping no one, especially yourself. What matters is what you are willing to examine when someone has you and your beliefs up against a wall. You don't win any points for shooting down atheists in church groups or belittling fundamentalists with your pals at a secular society meeting.

I know most people are taught to play nice, don't swear, and avoid fighting. It's a nice, warm fuzzy thought, but it's also unrealistic and naive. Conflict and debate are part of life and the absence of such is an intellectual deadend. Rest assured that debates, civil or uncivil, have worth and one is better off for the experience.

[do not disturb]

in regards to an off topic section...

isn't this feedback section kind of the unofficial off topic/i-have-a-complaint/why-did-you-delete-my-thread/i-deserve-a-explanation/why-are-you-playing-favorites/the-mods-are-burnt-out/this-site-sucks-cause-i-say-so section? but if you're reading this, you already knew this sooo....

and in regards to political and religious topics...

discussing politics is never a good idea cause IMHO, its simply the stupidest reason to dislike someone you once liked/respected.

i've seen 2 guys who were the best of friends go at it, next thing you know they hate each other and make it a point to drag their political beliefs in every topic thereafter. people like to claim "we're just having a discussion", but this couldn't be further from the truth. theres no discussing, its always the same old arguement of "i'm right and your wrong".

i don't think anyone cares how civil people are being, if you want to discuss politics, go to political website.

discussing religion is never a good idea simply cause you never know who you might offend. its another stupid reason to dislike somene that you once liked/respected.

this is american, we all have the right to practice our religions without persecution from others. again, people like to claim, "we're just having a discussion"but theres no such thing. if you're christian and start preaching about god and how great hes is, you expect everyone to respect your beliefs but, if someone says they're a satanist and start spouting off about how great satan is, you damn sure ain't going to respect his/her beliefs. theres is no such thing as right or wrong in regards to religion, its simply a matter of ones devotion and faith to their religion and their personal relationship to god or whomever.

again, i don't think anyone cares how civil people are being, if you want to discuss religion, go to a religious website.

just my 2 cents....

[Dangard Ace]

Face it, our hobby is over 20 years old so WE'RE old too.

392664[/snapback]

::Starts crying::

392695[/snapback]

I am twenty years old. FOREVER!!

Offtopics = does not work for a place with this many members. Experiments like the Longest Thread were tried and were unsuccessful. I have no desire to read what underwear or lack thereof you are wearing today.....unless you are a desirable female. In which case.....

Politics = no. Fun but no.

Religion = no. Fun but no.

For reference see any topics regarding the Warzone(RT) a few years back and the BS that went on in there.