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What can we expect from a new Macross Series?


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@Bolt since you mention it, you can always watch Last Hope on Netflix, and get an idea of the kind of pseudo-mystic science you quantum stuff Kawamori is likely to put into the next show. Seems like he’s been doing an increasing amount of it  since Zero.

 

it all comes across as a bit nonsense to me, but eh, whatchagonnado.

 

personally I’d prefer a show that doesn’t have something to do with a protoculture macguffin or protoculture evil plot or pseudoscience mind control telepathic fold network or protoculture anything, really, beyond maybe a background mention. More like SDFM or M+, less like Zero or Delta (though I enjoyed both).

Edited by jeniusornome
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On 7/30/2020 at 9:08 PM, Master Dex said:

I'd love to see a metal Macross personally.

On 7/30/2020 at 10:19 PM, sqidd said:

I'm sold. Baby Metal can do the soundtrack.:D

Sold...

 

 

 

 

But now the only thing I can picture is Macross: DEATHCLOCK!!!!!

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@Bolt I did finish it, although after the last episode I was left with a sense of "uh, but what about the rest of the plot?"

Which, sadly, was the same sense I got from the ending of Delta. So I'm not holding out hope for an especially well put together plot for whatever we get next.

I bet it will look really good, though.

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On 7/30/2020 at 4:56 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Maybe it's time Macross branches out to something like metal?  That seems like a genre that'd go over well with the Zentradi.

Hell, maybe do a Zentradi version of Detroit Metal City, about an up-and-coming Zentradi metal band.

That would be awesome to see, have them fight the Supervision Army. A zentradi deathmetal band rocking out to inspire the troops. Be a nice OVA at least.

On 7/30/2020 at 1:06 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Nah, if they're gonna capitalize on Delta they're gonna keep pushing crap for the "waifu" crowd... maybe we'll get Daily Life with Valkyrie Girls.  One poor schlub pilot gets stuck living with an ever-growing harem of variable fighters.

I mean we have the VFGs, just make it like that horse idol anime but with mecha.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/14/2020 at 11:20 AM, Bolt said:

A small, lost colony of Protoculture is found. Perhaps in deep sleep. Once they awaken, all hell brakes loose.

Basara cameo.

Imagine if someone awakens and HAS the keys tu activate and command ALL THE ZENTRADI in the Galaxy...

That would be funny

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I wanted to mention "Protoculture remnant colony" but was beaten to it :)

I have a fanfic out in Russian where Minmay (with the rest of the Megaroad) is actually stuck on a Protoculture remnant colony. I guess it would be too much to see that as canon... but protoculture something anyway ;)

My personal preference for music would be symphonic metal, a la Tarja, which could be presented as "serious Protoculture business". But I don't know if the subgenre even exists in Japan to start with.

 

 

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Anything new will be focused on selling the music, because they've finally realized that's where the merchandising money for this property really lies with the new generation audience.

As someone mentioned, lots of waifu potential.  Expect another team of 5 or 6 cute girls.  Although, there probably won't be a lot of figures or anything, because that whole business model is pricing itself into a narrow niche.

Mecha and variable fighters will be phased out of the franchise.  It's the most expensive part of the animation and producing them is too intensive, and the new generation of fans isn't as into it.  

Probably a move towards superheroics.  We've been seeing it for some time in the franchise with the mystical song powers.  Delta took a strong step towards making it more explicit.  Expect pop idols flying around and singing enemies into submission without any kind of mecha assistance within the next franchise iteration or the next one after that at the latest.  I'd say we'll almost certainly see songs being able to project energy blasts and create force fields in the next iteration.

Macross will leave it's roots as a mecha property behind.  It will almost certainly become a kind of musical magical girl show.

I'm not saying this as any kind of "OMG, they're destroying Macross" comment.  It's just honestly the way I see the money flowing post-Delta.

 

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43 minutes ago, GabrielV said:

Anything new will be focused on selling the music, because they've finally realized that's where the merchandising money for this property really lies with the new generation audience.

[...]

Mecha and variable fighters will be phased out of the franchise.  It's the most expensive part of the animation and producing them is too intensive, and the new generation of fans isn't as into it.  

We've seen a lot of hyperbolic nonsense on this score, and it is exactly that... nonsense.

Macross has always been heavily involved in selling the music used in the anime.  This isn't new.  This isn't even any more extreme than what was done in Macross 7.  It's just this time it was a girl group instead of a rock band.  Even the tech that some lambasted as "magical girl"-esque was not new by any means.  It was well-precedented tech from previous shows.

Kawamori and co. like to experiment with Macross, approaching its core concepts from different angles and viewpoints.  That's why we've had such a diverse body of stories, and why we really shouldn't waste our time trying to predict what Kawamori will do next.  He's going to put together some bizarre combination of concepts and it'll work suspiciously well.  In the past, we've had stories that de-emphasize mecha, and stories that emphasize mecha over the rest.  Macross's creators mix things up to keep it fresh. 

 

Quote

I'd say we'll almost certainly see songs being able to project energy blasts and create force fields in the next iteration.

Been there, done that... in Macross 7, actually.

The show's principal antagonists, the Protodeviln, were energy beings from higher-dimensional space that were accidentally trapped in the bodies of bio-tech superweapons the ancient Protoculture created during the height of their civil war.  The only way they could survive in three-dimensional space was to harvest higher-dimensional energy (spiritia) from the minds of living beings, and created the Supervision Army to help them not starve to death.  The titular emigrant fleet discovered that certain rare individuals could produce a lot more of that higher-dimensional energy and even unconsciously control it to a certain extent, and invented a way to weaponize it by collecting, amplifying, and focusing it.  (You could grossly oversimplify the series by saying a rock band fights emotion-vampires by blasting them with the emotional high of rocking the f*ck out.)

Technically, we've also seen songs create force fields in Frontier and Delta as well.  The Vajra communicate and manipulate fold waves by "singing" (albeit not anything humans would recognize as song) and can use those fold waves in manners identical to purely technological solutions humanity uses to do things like warp spacetime into an impassible barrier.  The Protoculture ship Sigur Berrentzs in Macross Delta had a similar capability.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Technically, we've also seen songs create force fields in Frontier and Delta as well.  The Vajra communicate and manipulate fold waves by "singing" (albeit not anything humans would recognize as song) and can use those fold waves in manners identical to purely technological solutions humanity uses to do things like warp spacetime into an impassible barrier.  The Protoculture ship Sigur Berrentzs in Macross Delta had a similar capability.

Yeah.  That's what I'm saying.  We've already seen this stuff.  We're just going to see it more in the context of something like Walkure.  Every iteration of the show has been dialing the "glowy" up higher and higher.  With Delta we're already at extremely casual glowy.

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1 hour ago, GabrielV said:

Every iteration of the show has been dialing the "glowy" up higher and higher.  With Delta we're already at extremely casual glowy.

... but that's demonstrably not true.

Macross 7 was, and still is, absolutely the apex of "glowy" for the franchise.  Nothing in Macross before or since comes close to a rock band fighting space kaiju and their vampire army thanks to being given the ability to fight by weaponizing The Power of Rock with tokusatsu-esque VFs, what might as well be DBZ-style power levels, glowing battle auras, and energy beams made of pure emotion.  They took it right down to frigging zero immediately thereafter in Macross Dynamite 7, which is about the main character from Macross 7 traveling to a remote planet to be a wandering space bum and accidentally getting caught up in a fight between the a taciturn conservationist, the local cops, and some space whale poachers with nothing but an acoustic guitar, his wits, and whatever VF was left unattended.  There was nothing particularly outlandish in Zero or Frontier except Sara Nome's fold songs having the power to restore the Birdhuman because her entire lineage were created for that one specific job by the Protoculture.  Delta's Tactical Sound Unit Walkure is just a pale shadow of the shenanigans Sound Force got up to in 7... the only thing remotely unconventional about Walkure is that they use song to counter a dangerous disease.  Their equipment is all stuff we've seen before, and even using songs to counter mind control is right outta 7.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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15 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

Nom, I’ll ask in the other thread. 
 

I think it’s the “girl pop band flying without mecha” part that is leading to lots of “magical girls are the future of Macross” talk though. 

Of course they miss the micro-thruster belts they wear. You can even see the thruster flares in episode one and in Freya's debut concert.

Walkure is a good example of the axiom "Any technology significantly advance is indistinguishable from magic."

For Delta it was the focus on the idol group with some mecha combat around that caused the concern. They just need to find a better balance (like Frontier), but that comes with practice and let's be blunt. Macross has only had about half a dozen series it's catalog.

This compared to something like Gundam or Fate/Stay which have dozens of series under their belts in about the same amount of time. So it's harder to hide a bad season for Macross since it doesn't have much to hide behind. As apposed to some other franchises which have had more bad seasons than Macross has had seasons as a whole.

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3 hours ago, Focslain said:

Of course they miss the micro-thruster belts they wear. You can even see the thruster flares in episode one and in Freya's debut concert.

My apologies in advance for the potato quality, for my own lazy convenience I grabbed this screenshot from a fansub of Delta Mini Theater that a fan uploaded to Facebook a while back.  Yes, there's literally an extra feature on the Blu-rays devoted to showing that this is purely technological... and not even that advanced, by in-universe standards.

image.png.7d923678a09fa2a3bea02070cf5b8b29.png

 

Like the vast majority of the tech Walkure uses, we've seen this before... (art taken from the Macross Frontier: Itsuwari no Utahime Blu-ray booklet)

 

image.png.ccf984ae124dd5a467c2c91c7254f9be.png

 

The "Black WD-200W Walkure series" stage costume and WD-120 undersuit that RsP35 nitrogen gas jet cluster is used with is functionally identical to Sheryl Nome's holographic undersuit that Sheryl was shown to wear for all her performances in the Macross Frontier TV series (art source: Macross Chronicle character sheet Macross F Citizen 02B "Sheryl Nome").

image.png.a66b9e8dee0693528c9bd82dc136af3b.png

 

The Delta Mini Theater episode that discusses the suit and gas jet cluster even has an annoyed Reina refute the idea that it's "like magic" when Bogue thinks it.

Given that holographic costume tech used for entertainment debuted all the way back in Macross: Do You Remember Love? on Hikaru and Minmay's date, and portable versions used for disguise and stage performances were first introduced in Macross II: Lovers Again, she's right to dismiss that idea.  (Images sourced from This is Animation Special #5: Macross II)

 

image.png.959e3479ef6b1bdbaa89616e97e87b35.pngimage.png.8b322b3e6a8b90a8f48eeb6d60ad9aeb.png

 

 

As I've said many times before, there ain't no magical girl stuff goin' on here... this is all technology, and all stuff that's been part of the Macross setting for ages.

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I agree with everything you guys are saying. But if you don’t watch or read the supplemental material, or if you haven’t seen any of the other Macross media (which is certainly possible, considering it came out long enough after Frontier that it could easily be someone’s introduction to the series) it just looks a lot like “magical girl pop group plus mecha combat”.
 

if you go back and watch all of the earlier shows, then yes, all of the elements that made their way into Delta were pre-established in-universe. That doesn’t change the appearance of “magical girl pop group” though. It just means if you’re a longtime fan or you read a lot of the supplemental material you know it’s not “magic”, it is in fact song energy, spiritia, etc etc. which is basically magic.

 

i don’t see how it’s a bad thing though. My biggest issue with Delta was its incoherence, especially in the second half. I think it suffered from having too many main characters too. They want to make a fun mecha anime with a magic singing pop group? I’d watch that. Someone doesn’t  want music in their Macross? That’s probably going to be difficult.

 

 

anyways, looking at the plots of the shows:

 

Macross / DYRL: humanity finds a spaceship and meets a race of giant spacefaring warriors. It goes poorly, but they manage to turn some to their cause and people survive.

 

Plus: estranged friends and rival test pilots compete for the affections of a woman and also to see who is the better pilot. 
 

Seven: demons from another dimension possess ancient biological war machines created by a dead race and are defeated by the power of Rock and Roll.

 

Zero: at the end of a worldwide war, a pilot crashes on a small island in the South Pacific that has an ancient bio weapon. 
 

Frontier: humans meet giant alien bugs and sing to them to calm them down; it works. Cyborgs want the aliens to do mind control. 
 

Delta: pop group sings to people infected with a rage virus to calm them down; it works. Generic bad guys want ancient technology to do mind control.

 

next series: ???

 

they could go literally anywhere, but personally I’d like to see something unrelated to “the big picture.” A shorter series with a smaller setting than a colony fleet.

 

a while back I joked that the next show would be about pilots in a flying circus flying old mecha. I still think that could be a fun setting. 

Edited by jeniusornome
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3 hours ago, jeniusornome said:

I agree with everything you guys are saying. But if you don’t watch or read the supplemental material, or if you haven’t seen any of the other Macross media (which is certainly possible, considering it came out long enough after Frontier that it could easily be someone’s introduction to the series) it just looks a lot like “magical girl pop group plus mecha combat”.

Eh... maybe to a viewer who wasn't paying attention, but even then it's strictly superficial.

As in Macross 7Macross Delta is quite upfront with the viewer that this is all strictly in the realm of science and technology and wastes no time explaining as much.  Literally within a couple minutes of the first battle ending they get right into it.

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On 8/21/2020 at 2:58 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

My apologies in advance for the potato quality, for my own lazy convenience I grabbed this screenshot from a fansub of Delta Mini Theater that a fan uploaded to Facebook a while back.  Yes, there's literally an extra feature on the Blu-rays devoted to showing that this is purely technological... and not even that advanced, by in-universe standards.

image.png.7d923678a09fa2a3bea02070cf5b8b29.png

Why does this remind me of a high-tech chastity belt?

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 8/20/2020 at 10:35 AM, GabrielV said:

Anything new will be focused on selling the music, because they've finally realized that's where the merchandising money for this property really lies with the new generation audience.

As someone mentioned, lots of waifu potential.  Expect another team of 5 or 6 cute girls.  Although, there probably won't be a lot of figures or anything, because that whole business model is pricing itself into a narrow niche.

Mecha and variable fighters will be phased out of the franchise.  It's the most expensive part of the animation and producing them is too intensive, and the new generation of fans isn't as into it.  

Probably a move towards superheroics.  We've been seeing it for some time in the franchise with the mystical song powers.  Delta took a strong step towards making it more explicit.  Expect pop idols flying around and singing enemies into submission without any kind of mecha assistance within the next franchise iteration or the next one after that at the latest.  I'd say we'll almost certainly see songs being able to project energy blasts and create force fields in the next iteration.

Macross will leave it's roots as a mecha property behind.  It will almost certainly become a kind of musical magical girl show.

I'm not saying this as any kind of "OMG, they're destroying Macross" comment.  It's just honestly the way I see the money flowing post-Delta.

 

The franchise definitely appears to be moving in that direction.  Macross is evolving into Sailor Moon.

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On 7/26/2020 at 5:54 AM, Gerli said:

No, it's a terrible idea and I know because I'm writin a +1000 pages Fanfic about that.

 

I think the Zentradi as a threat should return to the spotlight... a very big fleet of old-school Zentradis and a full war between those massive fleets and the best the humanity has now... and that wold make me happy.

 

That would rock! 

Give all the Zentraedi, mecha, troops and warships lots of screen time using the best quality animation standards known to man. 

Edited by Podtastic
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9 hours ago, Podtastic said:

That would rock! 

Give all the Zentraedi, mecha, troops and warships lots of screen time using the best quality animation standards known to man. 

Legend of the Galactic Heroes Quality would be orgasmic...

 

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I think Kawamori is simply tired and out of Macross ideas.  He likely has a head FULL of stories not at all Macross related that no one will consider because he's "That Macross Guy". 

He needs to mentor some new blood like Lucas did with Dave Filoni (not the best example, but an example).  Open the story telling up to other talent and see where it leads.  Right now the Macross Universe seems to be shrinking, not growing. 

I suspect the chronicle doesn't help with its insatiable need to explain "everything" only to be retconned when the next series comes out and contradicts what was published before....

Technical information is great, when you get into story details and historical details, things get muddy because SK doesn't like to be pegged by canon based on previous productions in any media.

Edited by Zinjo
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On 9/23/2020 at 10:10 AM, Focslain said:

I mean heck even a reboot of SDFM in this style would be amazing. 

Honestly I just want A series after the next movie. Something that expands the universe a little if you please.

I would love a reboot based on Mikimoto's "Macross First" or at the very least a re-animation of the original show with modern techniques. 

No need to hire VAs as the audio tracks already exist...  Clean up some of the "filler" episodes with more relevant activity that propels the story forward.

A cost effective way to free the anime from the Tat/HG strangle hold on the 1982 series internationally and improve on the visuals a the same time. 

Edited by Zinjo
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6 hours ago, Zinjo said:

I think Kawamori is simply tired and out of Macross ideas.  He likely has a head FULL of stories not at all Macross related that no one will consider because he's "That Macross Guy". 

 

Well, from what i hear, The Floating Head has many a Macross story in his vaults for sometime . Including more M7.  This is via the podcast crew. Now, if THEY will let him loose on any of it, is another thing. He's probably cooped up in the Walkure closet for a while , which has a sign on the door that says, "do not open until 2025.."

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On 9/28/2020 at 9:23 PM, Zinjo said:

at the very least a re-animation of the original show with modern techniques. 

Your lowest expectation would be better than any Macross since the original itself. 

 

On 9/28/2020 at 9:23 PM, Zinjo said:

A cost effective way to free the anime from the Tat/HG strangle hold on the 1982 series internationally and improve on the visuals a the same time

If only. 

If only we could be freed from "enemy mecha don't sell" and Idol Hell into the bargain. 

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19 hours ago, Bolt said:

Well, from what i hear, The Floating Head has many a Macross story in his vaults for sometime . Including more M7.  This is via the podcast crew. Now, if THEY will let him loose on any of it, is another thing. He's probably cooped up in the Walkure closet for a while , which has a sign on the door that says, "do not open until 2025.."

I'm not so sure.  He is making a name for himself at Satellite, but is still  tightly tethered to the Macross legacy, like it or not.  You can tell any interviewer what fans want to hear, but unless there is product to back it up, it's just empty words.

He's ventured out a few times outside of Macross and has struggled to get financing.  Typecasting happens to writers/producers too.  It was so bad for him that in the 90's he converted a fighter competition story into Macross Plus, just to get it produced.  

Granted M+ was a huge success in the West, but wasn't as popular in Japan as M7 was...

Edited by Zinjo
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