HG and Robotech Debates, ep. 8

[ps99042]

BTW, I wonder how those DVDs are working out? Haven't seen them move on the shelves, so I'm thinking they aren't doing too well. Did anyone here get them?

Well, according to McKeevie, the new DVD sales are ok but they're not doing "gangbusters":

I'm going to let you all in on a little secret.

A&E is very happy with the DVD sales and so is Harmony Gold. This idea that "nobody's buying it" hence the discounts (discounts I may add have lessened in the past few days) really does not reflect the reality of whats going on.

Kevin McKeever

ROBOTECH.com

So, yeah, the state of Robotech has not improved.

Edited December 30, 2011 by ps99042

[therealfolkblues]

I bought the new DVD' s. I got the whole set from Amazon for something like $35.00. The extras were ok, but not worth buying the whole series again for. Then again, the last set I bought was the "protoculture collection", and I wanted to see how improved the video quality was. It was funny to hear the music loop when they added the "remastered" footage. It also seemed like the sound effects were different? Anyway, it was worth the 30 bucks or so, but not much more.

[Einherjar]

I'm going to let you all in on a little secret.

A&E is very happy with the DVD sales and so is Harmony Gold. This idea that "nobody's buying it" hence the discounts (discounts I may add have lessened in the past few days) really does not reflect the reality of whats going on.

Kevin McKeever

ROBOTECH.com

You know who didn't buy it? MEMO! For all the promotion he's done for them, he doesn't even want it.

http://www.robotechx.com/forums...

WONT BUY IT EVEN IF IT GOES TO 20 DLRS. ALL ABOUT THE LEGACY MAN!.

I STILL THINK PRICE IS TO HIGH WHICH WE WILL PROBABLY BE AT SOMETHING BY NEXT YEAR IN THE 19.99 DLR RANGE.

SINCE ITS NOT LEGACY, I AM NOT BUYING.

NOW IF IT WAS LEGACY AND EXTRAS I WOULD GO AS FAR AS 25 DLRS. BUT NOT MORE THAN THAT.

[Gubaba]

You know who didn't buy it? MEMO! For all the promotion he's done for them, he doesn't even want it.

http://www.robotechx.com/forums...

To be fair, at least he's honest and forthright about not liking the remastered edition. It'd be really easy (and infinitely douchier) to not buy it but but SAY that he did.

[ps99042]

Memo's probably holding out for a free copy. Afterall, a true fan would get it just for the documentary.

[Keith]

I bought the new DVD' s. I got the whole set from Amazon for something like $35.00. The extras were ok, but not worth buying the whole series again for. Then again, the last set I bought was the "protoculture collection", and I wanted to see how improved the video quality was. It was funny to hear the music loop when they added the "remastered" footage. It also seemed like the sound effects were different? Anyway, it was worth the 30 bucks or so, but not much more.

The SFX were different. For some reason or another, either HG lost their seperate dialogue/SFX tracks, or perhaps they were only given an SFX track, and a Japanese dialogue+SFX track initially. As the story went 12 years ago, the audio mix that HG had of the oriignal Macross was in pretty bad shape, so AnimEigo contacted Japan and negotiated better quality masters (which they remiastered themselves). They wanted to do the same for the video, but HG insisted that they remaster from "their" copies, which as time has told us was so that they would have a copy of the video on hand. So what happened to those audio tracks from Japan? They went back to Japan, and HG wasn't able to touch them once the licnese with AnimEigo was up. When HG didn't renew the license with AnimEigo, it was so they could give it to ADV. ADV's "robotech remastered" and own Macross release were both made from that video, though strangely their releases were interlaced instead of progressive (like the AnimEigo release). Worse yet, even though they couldn't get a hold of AnimEigo's remastered audio, they did nothing to attempt to clean up HG's audio tapes for Macross (luckily they did clean up the SC & Mospeada audio), and released a very degraded/scratchy soundtrack along with the interlaced video.

It's because of that lack/inability to remaster or seperate the SFX tracks from HG's held master, that the "legacy" set had all new SFX used. The same new SFX were used for ADV's Macross dub.

Come to think of it, that dub had the original music, so it had to be laziness on ADV & HG's part in remastering the SFX track. The funniest part? If I recall correctly, AnimEigo included a seperate audio track on their DVD's with the music on one channel, and the SFX on another. So maybe what ADV/HG lacked was a seperate dialogue track for Macross. Who knows.

[akt_m]

Memo's probably holding out for a free copy. Afterall, a true fan would get it just for the documentary.

... "The Making of Robotech Documentary"

A documentary about the dubbing company instead of the director...

Edited December 30, 2011 by akt_m

[TheLoneWolf]

The SFX were different. For some reason or another, either HG lost their seperate dialogue/SFX tracks, or perhaps they were only given an SFX track, and a Japanese dialogue+SFX track initially. As the story went 12 years ago, the audio mix that HG had of the oriignal Macross was in pretty bad shape, so AnimEigo contacted Japan and negotiated better quality masters (which they remiastered themselves). They wanted to do the same for the video, but HG insisted that they remaster from "their" copies, which as time has told us was so that they would have a copy of the video on hand. So what happened to those audio tracks from Japan? They went back to Japan, and HG wasn't able to touch them once the licnese with AnimEigo was up. When HG didn't renew the license with AnimEigo, it was so they could give it to ADV. ADV's "robotech remastered" and own Macross release were both made from that video, though strangely their releases were interlaced instead of progressive (like the AnimEigo release). Worse yet, even though they couldn't get a hold of AnimEigo's remastered audio, they did nothing to attempt to clean up HG's audio tapes for Macross (luckily they did clean up the SC & Mospeada audio), and released a very degraded/scratchy soundtrack along with the interlaced video.

It's because of that lack/inability to remaster or seperate the SFX tracks from HG's held master, that the "legacy" set had all new SFX used. The same new SFX were used for ADV's Macross dub.

Haha, that story changes every time you tell it! Truth is, AnimEigo never contacted Japan for any audio material. They took the initiative and remastered Harmony Gold's audio material themselves, end of story. Usually, the simplest explanation is the right one.

[Freiflug88]

Copied from http://www.robotech....stion.php?id=40

Q: I was pleased to see a remastered DVD series come out ... I'm trying to understand why so many of the classic Robotech sound effects had been completely replaced by new sound effects.

- SergioOGamboa

A: Robotech Remastered features new 5.1-channel audio with new surround sound tracks to take advantage of the latest home theater systems. However, the original monaural effects are still layered under there. For fans who prefer the nostalgia of the 1985 broadcast, sound engineer Bob Lacivita has recommended turning down the stereo and surround channels on 5.1 sound systems, leaving on only the center channel which mostly contain the original sound and vocal tracks (though there may be some bleed through from the surround channels). As a compromise, we also recommend leaving on the sub-woofer to keep the impact of some of the ambient rumble effects.

- Tommy Yune

Edited December 30, 2011 by Freiflug88

[Gubaba]

Copied from http://www.robotech....stion.php?id=40

Q: I was pleased to see a remastered DVD series come out ... I'm trying to understand why so many of the classic Robotech sound effects had been completely replaced by new sound effects.

- SergioOGamboa

A: Robotech Remastered features new 5.1-channel audio with new surround sound tracks to take advantage of the latest home theater systems. However, the original monaural effects are still layered under there. For fans who prefer the nostalgia of the 1985 broadcast, sound engineer Bob Lacivita has recommended turning down the stereo and surround channels on 5.1 sound systems, leaving on only the center channel which mostly contain the original sound and vocal tracks (though there may be some bleed through from the surround channels). As a compromise, we also recommend leaving on the sub-woofer to keep the impact of some of the ambient rumble effects.

- Tommy Yune

Honestly...who cares about the Robotech sound effects when the REAL Macross voices, sound effects, and music can all be heard on DVDs from both AnimEigo and ADV?

Edited December 30, 2011 by Gubaba

[VF5SS]

And them nice remastered ones from Japan.

[Gubaba]

And them nice remastered ones from Japan.

Errr...yes, that set is a beut, definitely. But...ummm...it's not available in America. And, uhh...definitely not available with, err...subtitles...

[Freiflug88]

Honestly...who cares about the Robotech sound effects when the REAL Macross voices, sound effects, and music can all be heard on DVDs from both AnimEigo and ADV?

Just clearing up the conspiracy theories about what HG did with the "missing" Robotech audio. The Macross audio is frankly an old story I have read thousands of times on this thread.

[Keith]

Haha, that story changes every time you tell it! Truth is, AnimEigo never contacted Japan for any audio material. They took the initiative and remastered Harmony Gold's audio material themselves, end of story. Usually, the simplest explanation is the right one.

Story? Nope, that's remained the same since it was reported to pre-order customers by Robert Woodhead of AnimEigo through their newsletter to pre-order customers over 10 years ago. Don't blame me if you didn't pre-order & subscribe to the mailing list newsletter.

[Gubaba]

Story? Nope, that's remained the same since it was reported to pre-order customers by Robert Woodhead of AnimEigo through their newsletter to pre-order customers over 10 years ago. Don't blame me if you didn't pre-order & subscribe to the mailing list newsletter.

Sorry, Keith...you've got passion and fire on your side, but TheLoneWolf is pretty much always correct when it comes to actual FACTS.

[VF5SS]

Errr...yes, that set is a beut, definitely. But...ummm...it's not available in America. And, uhh...definitely not available with, err...subtitles...

That never stopped us before! Nearly thirty years strong. Represent!

[Gubaba]

That never stopped us before! Nearly thirty years strong. Represent!

Uhhh...yeah, sure. Represent, yo...

[Keith]

Sorry, Keith...you've got passion and fire on your side, but TheLoneWolf is pretty much always correct when it comes to actual FACTS.

Guess he finally broke that record then!

[Gubaba]

Guess he finally broke that record then!

Not sure what you mean exactly...

[Keith]

Not sure what you mean exactly...

If he's always right on facts, and you're saying I'm wrong about this particular issue, then his fact streak has ended.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Keith

[Einherjar]

Same exact 85 episodes with slight adjustments every 3-5 years, and people still buy them. The narrative doesn't change, just the pew pew pew pewing sounds and the like, yet THAT'S serious business.

How about some new stuff for a change, not including "new" stuff.

To be fair, at least he's honest and forthright about not liking the remastered edition. It'd be really easy (and infinitely douchier) to not buy it but but SAY that he did.

I'd believe that if he didn't spend most of the time on the Internet screwing with people about everything else.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Einherjar

[BeyondTheGrave]

Here are some reviews from amazon.com

If you need an introduction, look no further than this: Robotech is an innovator and legend in Sci-Fi.

This show is responsible for many ideas that came after it. It set the bar for animation, sci-fi, storytelling, and character arcs. If you have not seen it, do so

immediately.

For those of you who are waiting for Blu Ray, continue to do so. It will be worth it.

5 stars for Robotech, 1 star for waiting for the Blu Ray release.

Robotech is SO worth it, and it will be in your heart forever..... guaranteed. You won't be able to stop after you see the first episode.

Let yourself experience this masterpiece!

Being that this is another reissue, repackage, with some really lame bonus material that you can see for free on Youtube, I cannot see purchasing this over the previously released Protoculture Edition, or prior releases.

Had their been additional animation that was unreleased, like Sentinels material, or Dorvack, dubbed into Robotech, etc. I could see warranting a purchase, but the fact rremains that the most you will get out of this set other than the same old 85 Robotech Eps. is a rushed, lame version of MOSPEADA's Love, Live, Alive. Which, with no remastering visuals, or Blu Ray is like watching classic anime from the late 70's or early 80's. Do waste your money. Watch it on your Youtube app for free on your cell, or on your tablet, Hulu and YT, even Veoh for free is the way to go. Unless you need to nap for over 35 hours without the PC on then by all means. Otherwise, save your money for a real new Robotech production in about 2 more decades.

[mrhillz]

You know, should we be expecting the new dvd set to drop in price as fast as Duke Nukem Forever did?

Edited January 1, 2012 by mrhillz

[BeyondTheGrave]

No.

[Keith]

Alright, I e-mailed the AnimEigo head on the issue. His response was:

To the best of my knowledge, we provided HG with all of the materials we received or produced ourselves when the license reverted.

best,

R

This is pretty much a confirmation that they "did" import the audio tapes to remaster them, and did share them with HG. Which means against all sane reason, they chose "not" to use it for both ADV's Macross & robotech remastered. WTF were they thinking? Also, I checked my set, and the AnimEigo disc's did indeed include a seperate audio track with the music on one channel, and SFX on the other. The reason for it was for fans who wanted to make their own fandubs. When you add in this info with the info that the original SFX are burried under the robotech remastered 5.1 crap mix, you really have to wonder what they were smoking when putting together that set.

[therealfolkblues]

Honestly...who cares about the Robotech sound effects when the REAL Macross voices, sound effects, and music can all be heard on DVDs from both AnimEigo and ADV?

Well, for someone who bought this as a "nostalgia product", I expected the sounds to be similar to my other set or old videotapes, "re-mastered" or not. Not complaining, just couldn't figure out how they could screw that up? Also, being someone who pre-ordered and bought the original Animeigo Macross release, I didn't expect to hear Robotech sound effects on it,and luckily I didn't . So much discussion about "Robotech" on this MACROSS board, when we are are clearly to good to pay it any mind, right? I can understand why people who actually have a passing care about the nostalgia of Robotech post in this thread, but I can't understand why people just hang out in this thread to constantly bash HG? They really don't care about the fanbase and I can't figure out why everyone would waste the time to bitch about it?

[Einherjar]

Well, for someone who bought this as a "nostalgia product", I expected the sounds to be similar to my other set or old videotapes, "re-mastered" or not. Not complaining, just couldn't figure out how they could screw that up? Also, being someone who pre-ordered and bought the original Animeigo Macross release, I didn't expect to hear Robotech sound effects on it,and luckily I didn't . So much discussion about "Robotech" on this MACROSS board, when we are are clearly to good to pay it any mind, right? I can understand why people who actually have a passing care about the nostalgia of Robotech post in this thread, but I can't understand why people just hang out in this thread to constantly bash HG? They really don't care about the fanbase and I can't figure out why everyone would waste the time to bitch about it?

You will probably understand when another Macross sequel comes out that people won't be able to enjoy offically, and/or when a "new" or "offical" Robotech product comes out that doesn't live up to quality nostalgia or comparison to what people are not allowed to enjoy outside Asia. By default, most of us here are marginalized because of HG's work. And in 2012, you will probably see this first hand when more of Love Live Alive is revealed.

[azrael]

Alright, I e-mailed the AnimEigo head on the issue. His response was:

...

This is pretty much a confirmation that they "did" import the audio tapes to remaster them, and did share them with HG.

His response didn't say WHAT they recieved and from where. Also try including what you wrote for context.

[Jasonc]

Whether HG did, or didn't use stuff from the Animeigo stuff is kinda irrelevant. The fact is, they royally screwed up on the 5.1 sound they decided to do. It seems the people they got to do the sound, they gave a lot of liberties to, and they took a lot of what people remembered out of it. The jets sound like 747s, not like high pitched performance fighters, the BGS sounds hollow, and like it's coming from a tunnel, and then you got the openings that are completely different. If you were hoping for it to be the same, it's far from it, and for a company that is really trying to sell nostalgia at this point, it's not a good selling point to change what you're selling.

[Keith]

His response didn't say WHAT they recieved and from where. Also try including what you wrote for context.

So much doubt for no reason, sheesh.

On 12/30/11 2:20 PM, KeithL78@aol.com wrote:

I just have a quick question if you're able to answer it, I'd appreciate it. Over a decade ago while Macross was being remastered, I subscribed to your mailing list to keep up to date on the release. I recall news being sent out that audio masters had to be received from Japan to due the degradation of the audio tapes harmony gold had on hand. After the license with harmony gold ended, ADV released an inferior version of the set with interlaced video, and a really scratchy original Japanese soundtrack.

My own personal theory of the time was that because AnimEigo had contacted the Japanese licensors directly and you paid for the audio remaster yourselves, harmony gold & ADV didn't have access to your audio remaster. Unfortunately, I've long since lost my old e-mails with the mailing list updates in them, and haven't been able to find any details through searching around the internet.

If it's a matter of licensing, or some type of legal issue which prevents you from answering, I completely understand. I'm basically asking about this to check my memory, and back up my net pride, so it's obviously not anything so important as to get you or your company in trouble.

Any info you can give would be appreciated though.

-Keith

To the best of my knowledge, we provided HG with all of the materials we received or produced ourselves when the license reverted.

best,

R

Do you need me to forwards you the e-mail too?

[Old_Nash]

Happy New Year's Day!^^

[azrael]

So much doubt for no reason, sheesh.

Hey, if you wanna prove your case, then you better have some clear questions. That's all I'm saying. Same goes for for the other side. You never asked what AnimEigo recieved or confirmed what AnimEigo recieved.

Frankly, if the company HG hired to do the sound for their "Remastered"-collection decided to screw with the 5.1 sound, then that's on them. AnimEigo, ADV, and Bandai probably got a it right by not converting a mono-track into something that it shouldn't be or redoing sounds altogether.

... and for a company that is really trying to sell nostalgia at this point, it's not a good selling point to change what you're selling.

It's probably not. But oh well. That's RT's problem. Not Macross'.

[Freiflug88]

This is pretty much a confirmation that they "did" import the audio tapes to remaster them, and did share them with HG. Which means against all sane reason, they chose "not" to use it for both ADV's Macross & robotech remastered. WTF were they thinking?

ADV used the very same remastered source footage and audio from Animego. The ADV Japanese track is the remastered 2 channel audio copied right out of the Animego DVDs minus the separate tracks for fandubbers. Its only the English track was given completely different SFX because the monotracks from 1982 don't work on today's 5.1 audio.

As for Harmony Gold they are pretty adamant that Robotech was not and will never be just “an English dub of Macross.” Its a completely different show with its own unique SFX so forget about Rick Hunter's Veritech ever “sounding” like Hikaru Ichijo's Valkyrie.

[sketchley]

Hey, if you wanna prove your case, then you better have some clear questions. That's all I'm saying. Same goes for for the other side. You never asked what AnimEigo recieved or confirmed what AnimEigo recieved.

Seconded.

[Dynaman]

Any chance we could have a Robotech Scoopda board, granted it would only have 1 or 2 posts a year, but wading through the griping about HG and the nuttier parts of the RT fanbase is almost getting as bad as going onto the RT website for news (ok, perhaps I exagerater a little - but the RT scoopda is an honest request, since I really don't have any desire to look at the RT website and really don't care about the RT fandom but I would like to know when something new for RT is actually released or announced)