HG and Robotech Debates, ep. 8

[Einherjar]

Because they want what we got? When they see "Macross", they go "WOW". Nostalgia kicks in. Then their brains turn to mush as the flood of nostalgia pushes out any sign of rational thought. You know, instead of coming up with their own ideas, why not use someone else's work and just fill in the blanks with your brand of putty.

It scares me that that is still a legitimate strategy to HG with Carl Macek as the scapegoat, regardless of whether or not Robotech Love Live Alive was actually his idea in the first place.

[VF5SS]

Robotech 7 huh? And since HG would likely be too cheap to pay fees for the Fire Bomber songs, we'd get some horrible new sound that would surpass Fire Bomber American in musical vomit.

You're not implying Fire Bomber produces musical vomit are you? Because you're going to have to turn in that Ozma Lee avatar if that's true, mister.

[scannerfish]

I never understood why so many Robotech fans do that. There's one thing that I've realized many of them do 1)Write fanfics...I really don't have a problem with this, and some are good, but there are soooo many fanfic writers, it's a telling sign that HG isn't doing the job of telling much of any story. Maybe it's just my own observation, but there are probably more Robotech fanfic writers to regular fans, than any other franchise, except maybe Star Trek.

2) Many fans have this insatiable desire to incorporate the existing Macross shows into Robotech. It's one of the worst ideas ever, and I don't know why it keeps getting asked at every convention. It's a telling sign there, that Macross is THAT GOOD, and that fans don't want the HG staff's stories.

I'd imagine the logic is also that HG could make the hack and slashes and snips,and have "Robotech Frontier" out asap vs. whatever the hell they're doing now.

[Seto Kaiba]

It scares me that that is still a legitimate strategy to HG with Carl Macek as the scapegoat, regardless of whether or not Robotech Love Live Alive was actually his idea in the first place.

While it doesn't scare me or even particularly surprise me that Harmony Gold is stupid enough to try the same bad idea twice on the forlorn hope that it'll work the second time around despite being seen as bad practice by the industry in general on top of all the bad ideas related to its execution, I have to say that the part that surprises me is that they preemptively assigned the blame for its inevitable crash-and-burn failure to Carl Macek.

Does it strike anyone else as odd that, after spending close to a decade twisting the truth and heaping lies and hosts of largely undeserved plaudits on Macek to an extent verging on hagiography, they'd take the time to ensure he got all the blame for the ill-conceived stopgap title they're trying to use as a smokescreen for their lack of progress elsewhere.

[Jasonc]

While it doesn't scare me or even particularly surprise me that Harmony Gold is stupid enough to try the same bad idea twice on the forlorn hope that it'll work the second time around despite being seen as bad practice by the industry in general on top of all the bad ideas related to its execution, I have to say that the part that surprises me is that they preemptively assigned the blame for its inevitable crash-and-burn failure to Carl Macek.

Does it strike anyone else as odd that, after spending close to a decade twisting the truth and heaping lies and hosts of largely undeserved plaudits on Macek to an extent verging on hagiography, they'd take the time to ensure he got all the blame for the ill-conceived stopgap title they're trying to use as a smokescreen for their lack of progress elsewhere.

This goes back to what I said awhile ago. This wasn't Macek's idea. This is a Tommy Yune idea, but using Macek's death as a pass for criticizing it and as a scapegoat. While all that is a farse, it's a huge advertisement of unoriginality, lack of creativity, imagination, and ingenuity. Par for the course, I guess. In current releases, I suppose they'll blame the release of the "Untold Story" Southern Cross only footage in the A&E set as a Carl idea as well. I've heard nothing but $h!t about that.

[Einherjar]

Would that be considered karma?

[hulagu]

Let's take MORE mecha shows from the '80s and CHANGE THEM so they fit ROBOTECH!!

We can do Orguss...and Votoms...and Vifam...Hell, even Galvion can find a place!

Alas, Super Robot Wars/ACE. Why are you so loved and I so hated?

(

Yes, kind of apples to oranges, but it's the basically same idea, isn't it?

Ignoring the RL bullshit HG pulls.

And also their lack of an actual product for years.

And also their taking themselves too damn seriously.

)

[VF5SS]

A lot of people make the comparison to SRW games but the key difference is those embrace their fanfic nature and all the characters remain true to their source series.

They don't re-purpose Chirico Cuvie as Amuro's nephew or some crap.

[BeyondTheGrave]

snip

Combine that with the movie Showgirls and we may have something unique.

[areaseven]

Here's more for Jason:

[Old_Nash]

Here's more for Jason:

I have a stroke...

[Reïvaj]

I even wrote a summary of how they could adapt to the Macross Frontier for Robotech universe.

Sacanagem.

[Old_Nash]

Sacanagem.

Obrigado.

[anime52k8]

Sacanagem.

Obrigado.

[Jasonc]

Here's more for Jason:

Why you do dat???

[VF-15 Banshee]

You're not implying Fire Bomber produces musical vomit are you? Because you're going to have to turn in that Ozma Lee avatar if that's true, mister.

As the posts of English Fire videos indicate, I'm implying that Fire Bomber AMERICAN is what grinds my gears. Give me Basara, Mylene, Ray and Veffidas ANY day.

Edited December 9, 2011 by VF-15 Banshee

[Seto Kaiba]

This goes back to what I said awhile ago. This wasn't Macek's idea. This is a Tommy Yune idea, but using Macek's death as a pass for criticizing it and as a scapegoat. While all that is a farse, it's a huge advertisement of unoriginality, lack of creativity, imagination, and ingenuity. Par for the course, I guess. In current releases, I suppose they'll blame the release of the "Untold Story" Southern Cross only footage in the A&E set as a Carl idea as well. I've heard nothing but $h!t about that.

Oh, no kidding... the more I read of what Carl Macek had to say about Robotech before and after Harmony Gold decided that the time was ripe to "reboot" their failed toy commercial from the 80's and try to pass it off as a completely serious sci-fi/action anime series, the more I think that Carl Macek was basically nothing more than a sock puppet that Harmony Gold used for the purpose of promoting the show and disparaging the original Macross.

After his final attempt to revive Robotech got canned in pre-production by Harmony Gold and he was replaced as the creative director by Tommy Yune, his "tune" in interviews and such pulled a 180. He went from the way he was in the late 80's and the early 90's, which was being essentially honest about the show's origins and his involvement, to suddenly buying into the hype that he was anime's answer to Gene Roddenberry and disparaging the source material for Robotech as flawed and inferior to what he envisioned for it. If he really was their sock puppet for all that, it would certainly explain some of the outrageous and fairly obvious lies he told.

Still... 's kind of a dick move to repeat a bad idea from the past and then stick a dead man with the blame.

[areaseven]

Why you do dat???

Why you quote it???

[Gubaba]

Why you quote it???

Why you care???

[TheLoneWolf]

This goes back to what I said awhile ago. This wasn't Macek's idea. This is a Tommy Yune idea, but using Macek's death as a pass for criticizing it and as a scapegoat.

When I first heard about Robotech: Love Live Alive, that's the first thing I thought too. When Macek was forced to blend the old Southern Cross animation with the newer Megazone 23 animation in Robotech: The Movie, he openly stated that it was a visual disaster. It makes no sense for him to want to repeat the greatest regret of his career for a second time, with eyes wide open. If Macek was serious about incorporating Mospeada: Love Live Alive into Robotech, he had plenty of opportunities to talk about it in the past 25 years, especially when Harmony Gold invited him to help revive Robotech for it's 15th anniversary in 2000. Why now?

What I think happened was that, shortly before his death, Macek and Yune were probably having a very informal converstation where Macek said something to the effect of "You know, Love Live Alive would've made a nice epilogue to Robotech back in '85." Macek passes away, and Yune declares "Robotech: Love Live Alive is what Macek wanted TODAY." That's one helluva marketing tool. And if the project is a success, Yune can put a feather on his directorial hat. If it fails, he can throw Macek under the bus.

[Funkenstein]

Whats the consensus of the current Robot Tech fan club about the LLA video?

[Seto Kaiba]

Whats the consensus of the current Robot Tech fan club about the LLA video?

Dunno what the madmen of the Robotech.com Ghost Town preservation society are saying, but the more moderate fans over on Palladium's forums seem surprisingly reluctant to talk about it. The few I've managed to wrangle an opinion out of seem to be of the opinion that it's going to be a turd.

[areaseven]

Why you care???

What it to you???

[Gubaba]

What it to you???

Touché.

[Jasonc]

When I first heard about Robotech: Love Live Alive, that's the first thing I thought too. When Macek was forced to blend the old Southern Cross animation with the newer Megazone 23 animation in Robotech: The Movie, he openly stated that it was a visual disaster. It makes no sense for him to want to repeat the greatest regret of his career for a second time, with eyes wide open. If Macek was serious about incorporating Mospeada: Love Live Alive into Robotech, he had plenty of opportunities to talk about it in the past 25 years, especially when Harmony Gold invited him to help revive Robotech for it's 15th anniversary in 2000. Why now?

What I think happened was that, shortly before his death, Macek and Yune were probably having a very informal converstation where Macek said something to the effect of "You know, Love Live Alive would've made a nice epilogue to Robotech back in '85." Macek passes away, and Yune declares "Robotech: Love Live Alive is what Macek wanted TODAY." That's one helluva marketing tool. And if the project is a success, Yune can put a feather on his directorial hat. If it fails, he can throw Macek under the bus.

That's pretty much what I think happened more or less. Here's the flip side to that though. If it becomes a success, A LOT of that will be due to the fact that people are going to perceive it as "Carl's vision". In that case, it's not really due to Tommy's success as any sort of creative director, or now as president of animation, but moreso because of a misconception. That's gotta suck to know that you'd have to use Carl's name as an insurance claim on your own work.

[Keith]

I'm calling shennanigans on the very idea. I just don't think even Macek would still believe that you could repcakage 25 year old animation in this day and age. This is 100% Yune's idea, no question about it.

[Zor Primus]

I call shenanigans on the entire RT franchise...

[JB0]

Well, I call shenanigans in general!

[blackconvoy_D01]

*sigh* If mercy killings were legal Roboobtech should be first in line. Its silly at this point but because they've reaped so much bad karma in most, if not all of their dealings HG is f***d at every turn. Robotech simply needs to die out for a few, then return under new management in order to possibly succeed later.

[Gubaba]

*sigh* If mercy killings were legal Roboobtech should be first in line. Its silly at this point but because they've reaped so much bad karma in most, if not all of their dealings HG is f***d at every turn. Robotech simply needs to die out for a few, then return under new management in order to possibly succeed later.

No it doesn't. It should simply go back to the eighties, where it belongs, and stay there.

[Einherjar]

*sigh* If mercy killings were legal Roboobtech should be first in line. Its silly at this point but because they've reaped so much bad karma in most, if not all of their dealings HG is f***d at every turn. Robotech simply needs to die out for a few, then return under new management in order to possibly succeed later.

A hiatus and new leadership won't change the fact that it's a sham.

[mrhillz]

*sigh* If mercy killings were legal Roboobtech should be first in line. Its silly at this point but because they've reaped so much bad karma in most, if not all of their dealings HG is f***d at every turn. Robotech simply needs to die out for a few, then return under new management in order to possibly succeed later.

That's the way I've been thinking for a while. Instead of trying in vain to keep things in the forefront, just be honest and put things off, let all the negativity die down, maybe work on a total reboot or something behind the scenes.

[Seto Kaiba]

That's the way I've been thinking for a while. Instead of trying in vain to keep things in the forefront, just be honest and put things off, let all the negativity die down, maybe work on a total reboot or something behind the scenes.

Honestly, that'd be about the only intelligent move left to Harmony Gold at this point... but they'll never do it.

One of the sordid little truths that leaked out during the more candid discussions with the people in charge of Robotech is that Harmony Gold's senior management ascribe to a view of the franchise more in line with ours than the highly unrealistic and/or overly optimistic viewpoint being pushed by the idiot brigade they hired to run the franchise. To them, Robotech is just a poor performer with such lousy future prospects that it's not worth investing more than the bare minimum necessary to keep it alive enough to continue generating revenue.

As wise as it would be for them to let Robotech slip into obscurity and obsolescence to clear its reputation of the stink of all its failures and the bad karma, the decision-makers at Harmony Gold are also businessmen. Despite all its many sins, Robotech continues to generate a modest income stream from products whose development costs have been covered for decades. To bring the franchise to full-stop for years before trying to reboot it from the ground up would entail both the loss of the revenue stream it currently generates AND a significant investment of time, money, and resources into reviving a property with a 100% catastrophic failure rate in developing original material. Since they know Robotech is a turd with no prospects, they're clearly realists... they'll stick with the assured profits rather than gambling on the uncertain and almost certainly doomed promise of future profits.

[Jasonc]

Honestly, that'd be about the only intelligent move left to Harmony Gold at this point... but they'll never do it.

One of the sordid little truths that leaked out during the more candid discussions with the people in charge of Robotech is that Harmony Gold's senior management ascribe to a view of the franchise more in line with ours than the highly unrealistic and/or overly optimistic viewpoint being pushed by the idiot brigade they hired to run the franchise. To them, Robotech is just a poor performer with such lousy future prospects that it's not worth investing more than the bare minimum necessary to keep it alive enough to continue generating revenue.

As wise as it would be for them to let Robotech slip into obscurity and obsolescence to clear its reputation of the stink of all its failures and the bad karma, the decision-makers at Harmony Gold are also businessmen. Despite all its many sins, Robotech continues to generate a modest income stream from products whose development costs have been covered for decades. To bring the franchise to full-stop for years before trying to reboot it from the ground up would entail both the loss of the revenue stream it currently generates AND a significant investment of time, money, and resources into reviving a property with a 100% catastrophic failure rate in developing original material. Since they know Robotech is a turd with no prospects, they're clearly realists... they'll stick with the assured profits rather than gambling on the uncertain and almost certainly doomed promise of future profits.

Then my question is, why have a creative director. I mean seriously...all that has come out over the past 11 years is rehash of stuff that's already been thought up. Heck, even Shadow Chronicles was basically an animated fanfic of Sentinels to New Generation transition. If all they're going to do is come up with stuff like that, then they can just hire someone off the street to do that for about half the price of a year's salary, and be done with that issue. Makes you wonder. I think Frank Agrama is simply just too old, and doesn't want to deal with all that garbage, thus, the reason they aren't putting anything into the franchise at this time.

[BeyondTheGrave]

If thats the case they can just hire us. We have better ideas than HG. And we're cheaper