HG and Robotech Debates, ep. 8

[Einherjar]

It's better to drop a risky and maybe premature project as soon as possible rather than spend money and resources unnecessarily exploring it further and even completing it. Not all franchises are as desperate for content as this one.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Einherjar

[taksraven]

Other Robotech fans at least occupy themselves with behavior that's less idiotic, though no less futile. In the absence of any actual developments from Harmony Gold, the Robotech fans have once again turned on themselves in a desperate last-ditch effort to convince themselves the series is still viable. This time, the complaint du jour is that Harmony Gold has neglected all manner of viable "official" designs that could set Robotech apart from the original shows... basically meaning they just wanna canonize more animation errors. Right now, the error they're saying should be a real thing is the scene from the climax of the Genesis Climber MOSPEADA series where a Dark Legioss is accidentally drawn larger than it should be. It's kept them busy arguing that a whole new class of jumbo "Alpha fighters" needs to be added to Robotech's continuity.

Don't worry, I'm sure that we will continue to get disillusioned RT fans continuing to wander over here from time to time, saying that after the better part of THREE DECADES that they have seen the error of their ways and now want to be Macross fans. When you look at it, it's really extraordinary that there are any RT fans left.

[Renato]

Don't worry, I'm sure that we will continue to get disillusioned RT fans continuing to wander over here from time to time, saying that after the better part of THREE DECADES that they have seen the error of their ways and now want to be Macross fans. When you look at it, it's really extraordinary that there are any RT fans left.

It really is. Normally that would prompt me to think that they must be doing SOMETHING right. Alas, it remains a mystery.

[Seto Kaiba]

Don't worry, I'm sure that we will continue to get disillusioned RT fans continuing to wander over here from time to time, saying that after the better part of THREE DECADES that they have seen the error of their ways and now want to be Macross fans. When you look at it, it's really extraordinary that there are any RT fans left.

Oh, I don't doubt it... what I doubt is that the ones presently making a fuss over the "large Alpha" will ever be among them. The Robotech fans raising that particular stink are fairly dead-set against the OSM, to the point where some seem to find the idea of Robotech drawing on OSM stats and such deeply offensive... which is bloody stupid in my humble opinion.

[Marzan]

Does any one have any idea of how much Robotech actually manages to sell anymore?

[azrael]

Does any one have any idea of how much Robotech actually manages to sell anymore?

Tom Bateman, who worked for HG till he moved on the greener pastures, could give you ballpark figures, but the only ones who know are HG themselves.

[Jasonc]

I certainly don't have the figures, but from what I've gathered, the Legacy set sold extremely well, then the remastered sold like crap. Then the Protoculture collection did better. The thing I've heard from people who bought the new A&E set, is that it's pretty much the Protoculture Collection with more extras, so whoever ha that, it's not worth getting the new set, unless you need to see the extras. Also in the Sentinels ceanup, they got rid of all the Macross footage that was contained in it, so it's missing that, and the Robotech Untold story only has the Southern Cross footage because HG simply doesn't have the rights to Megazone 23. I've been looking into it, so hopefully I get an answer soon as far as sales.

Personally, I have seen the A&E set sitting on shelves at my local one-stop shops. Don't know if they just aren't selling, or if they're quickly restocking, but the dust on the one I saw would indicate they're sitting. I put a piece of paper in between the fisrt one and the second a month ago, so when I go on saturday, if it's still there, That may answer my question.

[Keith]

Wait, they edited "The Sentinels" and didn't include the original version? No wonder that set's not selling!

[Jasonc]

Wait, they edited "The Sentinels" and didn't include the original version? No wonder that set's not selling!

Hahaha, yeah, just because of the Sentinels. Why they decided to do it is beyond me, but maybe they're just trying to, at least on the exterior, not use the Macross designs??? You gotta wonder though, does that make it incomplete as a "remaster", or does that even count as a remaster, if it's missing stuff from the original? While I'll never buy it, it's odd that they'd advertise it as a remaster, yet cut it even shorter.

[chrisk]

Personally, I have seen the A&E set sitting on shelves at my local one-stop shops. Don't know if they just aren't selling, or if they're quickly restocking, but the dust on the one I saw would indicate they're sitting. I put a piece of paper in between the fisrt one and the second a month ago, so when I go on saturday, if it's still there, That may answer my question.

You just prompted McKeever to post on twitter that the they're doing gangbusters. You know that, right?

Edited November 24, 2011 by chrisk

[Jasonc]

You just prompted McKeever to post on twitter that the they're doing gangbusters. You know that, right?

Good, cause then I'll know that he's lying. I just checked, and low and behold...the same boxes still sitting there, minus 1.

[Legioss]

Taking out the Macross footage was pointless because the original animation still infringes on the copyrighted names + similarity to copyrighted characters at the same time (Max, Minmei, Miriya, Exedore, Lisa Hayes, Zentraedi). The right way to do it would have been to construct the original first 2 or 3 episodes and even get off their asses enough to make a little more animation and voice acting to smooth it out but as always they never do it the right way.

I can't unsee Rick and Lisa are Scientologists getting married in front of the symbol at their wedding. Is Rick "Clear" yet?

[Einherjar]

Hahaha, yeah, just because of the Sentinels. Why they decided to do it is beyond me, but maybe they're just trying to, at least on the exterior, not use the Macross designs??? You gotta wonder though, does that make it incomplete as a "remaster", or does that even count as a remaster, if it's missing stuff from the original? While I'll never buy it, it's odd that they'd advertise it as a remaster, yet cut it even shorter.

Whatever the set is being called, it's missing an asterisk:

Robotech - The Complete Collection*

*Official and complete as of 2011 legal considerations

[areaseven]

All this talk sounds like the HG staff and RT fans are figuratively a human centipede.

[taksraven]

Whatever the set is being called, it's missing an asterisk:

Robotech - The Complete Collection*

*Official and complete as of 2011 legal considerations

To be fair (not that I really need to be in regards to HG and RT), there are a lot of older programs that have been released on DVD and blu-ray that have had their original content edited due to copyright and legal considerations. Most of the time it is in regards to soundtracks.

Music and songs that once had legal clearance to be used in shows often have to be removed because the rights for their usage have expired. In mild cases like Doctor Who and Felicity, copyrighted music in the background has just been replaced with generic "soundalike" stuff. In the worst cases, like some episodes of the Young Ones, entire segments have been cut from the show, which is really terrible.

(I know about Felicity 'cause my wife watches it.)

[Jasonc]

(I know about Felicity 'cause my wife watches it.)

Roll for man damage, 1D20, RIGHT NOW!!!

I understand things being changed or altered due to rights. The release of Zeta Gundam is a prime example of having the original opening song completely gone, and replaced with BGM. However, with HG's case, they did it for, I guess, no other reason than Tommy's preference. Afterall, we are still under the impression that they could use the original footage, unless using that footage with "new(er)" footage was questionable by HG legal. I like how you also wrote this:

...older programs that have been released on DVD and blu-ray that have had their original content edited due to copyright and legal considerations. Most of the time it is in regards to soundtracks.

Mainly the DVD and blu-ray portion. HG was too cheap to even do that. Yeah, next time some rabid, delusional Robotech fan talks of "cutting edge" refer them to the writing in bold there, and the lack HG has with that.

As for the excuse Tommy gives as to why they don't have that, he says something about the fact that the masters aren't good enough, or something to that effect. A friend of mine, Tom's, and several of us, worked in archives at HG (not in the Robotech dept.), and from his experience and first hand account, it could've been done. So, I guess that means they were just too cheap for all you hard core RT fans out there. No matter, their DVD is "cutting edge", just like pushing record/play at the same time on a cassette deck to record your favorite radio tunes, surfing the world wide web on your 28k modem, and walking around with stone washed jeans and a fanny pack.

[chrisk]

I was bored and I *gasp!* went on Robotech dot com to see what's new.

Nothing much, it seems.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=2119503&forumid=31&pagenumber=4

MEMO speculating to the faithful...zzzzZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[ps99042]

I was bored and I *gasp!* went on Robotech dot com to see what's new.

Nothing much, it seems.

http://www.robotech....31&pagenumber=4

MEMO speculating to the faithful...zzzzZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I love how he tries to justify the "N/A" regarding Robotech LAM development as no big deal as it's always been known that we won't see a film for close to at least a decade from the announcement of development. He and his 2 followers always make themselves look so "ignant" and basically contradict the very point they're trying to prove with their "evidence".

[chrisk]

Bunch a momos.

[Einherjar]

I was bored and I *gasp!* went on Robotech dot com to see what's new.

Nothing much, it seems.

http://www.robotech....31&pagenumber=4

Seven year wait time, huh? Great use of the last three years for the franchise. They're being so secretive about it, it's almost like the major players don't give a crap about it. But surely it will all pay off when it eventually comes out... for whoever is still alive by then. And that's only considering the LAM.

[Jasonc]

If they want to speculate about it, I really don't care. That's about all they have, is hopes and dreams, and little inexpensive toys that come out maybe twice a year. It seems as though the "official report" of the tie-in of EDF to Robotech from the mods is now going to be downgraded (as we all knew) to just speculation. That's where the problems come for them, and where they get pointed out as idiots. How many times has the speculation been promoted as facts?

I remember when Frontier was being made, we were all speculating off of a short synopsis that was provided by, I think, Satelite. It's been how many years, and the same people are still trying just trying to speculate if the Robotech Live action will even get made. On top of that, they've gone as far as to speculate about completely separate entities being Robotech. Don't know how many of you remember, but they even speculated that Battle Los Angeles was supposed to be Robotech. While there is this thing called legitimate speculation that they've thrown out the window, again I ask, how many times have they gone beyond just speculation? How many times have they "fired blanks" as fact, when it was just fabricated and wrong info? I can recall several.

[mecha2241]

The idiots look at Robotech like it's some big deal that needs a secret production name, like Blue Harvest. It's as though they think Robotech is as big as Star Wars.

[Seto Kaiba]

I certainly don't have the figures, but from what I've gathered, the Legacy set sold extremely well, then the remastered sold like crap. Then the Protoculture collection did better. The thing I've heard from people who bought the new A&E set, is that it's pretty much the Protoculture Collection with more extras

Yep, that's the impression I've gotten from my talks with various people in the fandom and on the business end of things. They did pretty well for themselves with the Legacy set and the extras-free collected edition of same, "Robotech Remastered" wasn't selling worth a damn, the "Protoculture Collection" enjoyed lukewarm sales primarily because of the extra features from the old Legacy set that somehow got missed out of "Remastered", and now the A&E edition isn't selling worth a damn because almost anyone who would've ordinarily bought a copy already owns one of the previous remastered editions and isn't willing to spend another $80 to buy the same damn thing in a slightly different box with minimal new content.

In my more recent interactions with active Robotech fans, the general opinion of the set seems to be "It's not worth it"... which tends to be motivated by the knowledge that even though it has more "features", it has less actual content.

Personally, I have seen the A&E set sitting on shelves at my local one-stop shops. Don't know if they just aren't selling, or if they're quickly restocking, but the dust on the one I saw would indicate they're sitting. I put a piece of paper in between the fisrt one and the second a month ago, so when I go on saturday, if it's still there, That may answer my question.

Ouch... yeah, that seems like a pretty damning indicator of "Not selling". Out this way, in Palladium's backyard, the few stores which carry anime haven't even bothered to stock the A&E edition. The few of them that carried Robotech DVDs have unsold copies of Robotech Remastered and the Protoculture Collection sitting on their shelves gathering dust. The same copies, I'm reliably informed, that have been there since those particular releases came from the distributor.

Seven year wait time, huh? Great use of the last three years for the franchise. They're being so secretive about it, it's almost like the major players don't give a crap about it. But surely it will all pay off when it eventually comes out... for whoever is still alive by then. And that's only considering the LAM.

Seven years? That's peanuts to a die-hard Robotech fan. After all, the true faithful waited almost two decades for Robotech to fart out a single, anemic direct-to-video "movie" to continue the disjointed collection of plot holes and spelling errors they all too often mistake for an actual story. Considering what happened in the intervening time, I'm not sure if that's patience or a lack of basic pattern recognition skills, but if they're still hanging on after almost thirty years with nothing to show for it, another couple years shouldn't dissuade them overmuch.

It seems as though the "official report" of the tie-in of EDF to Robotech from the mods is now going to be downgraded (as we all knew) to just speculation. That's where the problems come for them, and where they get pointed out as idiots. How many times has the speculation been promoted as facts?

More times than any sane person's brain can recall without shutting down in protest... it helps that the people doing all of that speculating are somewhere on the spectrum between "spectacularly dense" and "brainwashed and crazy".

It's been how many years, and the same people are still trying just trying to speculate if the Robotech Live action will even get made. [...] While there is this thing called legitimate speculation that they've thrown out the window, again I ask, how many times have they gone beyond just speculation? How many times have they "fired blanks" as fact, when it was just fabricated and wrong info? I can recall several.

From the public announcement that the live-action movie rights had been picked up? Five years next February or thereabouts.

On balance, it's really not all that surprising that they've developed a bad habit of posting uninformed speculation and trying to blur the line between their wild guesses and fact. It's the only way they can maintain interest in the project and the franchise in the absence of any actual progress. Yes, they lie and distort the facts... all in an effort to convince themselves that Robotech isn't a complete non-entity that the world forgot sometime around 1987, and that they haven't wasted years (decades) waiting patiently for a comeback that isn't coming.

[mrhillz]

I was bored and I *gasp!* went on Robotech dot com to see what's new.

Nothing much, it seems.

http://www.robotech....31&pagenumber=4

MEMO speculating to the faithful...zzzzZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You know, in their fanboy defense, even Duke Nukem Forever eventually came out, although dated, along with the original Dungeons&Dragons movie. I'm sure it'll eventually come out, but unfortunately 10 years or so down the road.

[Dynaman]

You know, in their fanboy defense, even Duke Nukem Forever eventually came out, although dated, along with the original Dungeons&Dragons movie. I'm sure it'll eventually come out, but unfortunately 10 years or so down the road.

But who will have the rights by then? Did HG sign a 10 year movie rights contract with WB? (was it WB, don't answer, I actually don't care)

[Seto Kaiba]

You know, in their fanboy defense, even Duke Nukem Forever eventually came out, although dated, along with the original Dungeons&Dragons movie. I'm sure it'll eventually come out, but unfortunately 10 years or so down the road.

Meh. In the unlikely event that the live-action movie does come out at sometime in the distant future, it'll likely be the same kind of low budget, direct-to-video atrocity as Starship Troopers 2.

But who will have the rights by then? Did HG sign a 10 year movie rights contract with WB? (was it WB, don't answer, I actually don't care)

No idea. A few years ago, there was a rumor going around that Harmony Gold's contract with Maguire Ent. over the live action movie rights had a short fuse expiration date that already passed, but I don't know if there was ever anything to that.

[ps99042]

If they want to speculate about it, I really don't care. That's about all they have, is hopes and dreams, and little inexpensive toys that come out maybe twice a year. It seems as though the "official report" of the tie-in of EDF to Robotech from the mods is now going to be downgraded (as we all knew) to just speculation. That's where the problems come for them, and where they get pointed out as idiots. How many times has the speculation been promoted as facts?

I remember when Frontier was being made, we were all speculating off of a short synopsis that was provided by, I think, Satelite. It's been how many years, and the same people are still trying just trying to speculate if the Robotech Live action will even get made. On top of that, they've gone as far as to speculate about completely separate entities being Robotech. Don't know how many of you remember, but they even speculated that Battle Los Angeles was supposed to be Robotech. While there is this thing called legitimate speculation that they've thrown out the window, again I ask, how many times have they gone beyond just speculation? How many times have they "fired blanks" as fact, when it was just fabricated and wrong info? I can recall several.

This is exactly their problem as they don't understand that speculation requires that it be based on fact. You see/hear something and then speculate what it could lead to along the same topic. Not something like, "hey movies are being made in 3D so that's why there's a delay in the Robotech LAM". The dots have to be connected slightly but they can't seem to do that.

[azrael]

No idea. A few years ago, there was a rumor going around that Harmony Gold's contract with Maguire Ent. over the live action movie rights had a short fuse expiration date that already passed, but I don't know if there was ever anything to that.

Techically, Macguire Entertainment is suppose to be producing it with WB being the distributor.

In any case, I just wonder how long long the lunatic fringe plans on keeping this up. Oh that name is just code for Row-bow-tech. Oh this one is a code for Row-bow-tech. Oh this company is shivering in their boots cuz of Row-bow-tech. Aren't these people 30 or 40 years old? Are they gonna keep doing this till they're 50 or something?

[Seto Kaiba]

This is exactly their problem as they don't understand that speculation requires that it be based on fact. You see/hear something and then speculate what it could lead to along the same topic. Not something like, "hey movies are being made in 3D so that's why there's a delay in the Robotech LAM". The dots have to be connected slightly but they can't seem to do that.

They can't connect the dots because there aren't any dots to connect, so they "manufacture" a few to get conversation rolling and provide what they fondly imagine is a passable imitation of progress in the Robotech franchise.

Techically, Macguire Entertainment is suppose to be producing it with WB being the distributor.

Ah, thank you.

In any case, I just wonder how long long the lunatic fringe plans on keeping this up. Oh that name is just code for Row-bow-tech. Oh this one is a code for Row-bow-tech. Oh this company is shivering in their boots cuz of Row-bow-tech. Aren't these people 30 or 40 years old? Are they gonna keep doing this till they're 50 or something?

The vast majority of them are 30+, yes. IINM, isn't the average age of an active Robotech fan over 32 now? What little's left of their fanbase in the wake of Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION's purges of anyone who has an opinion or is even a little knowledgeable about Macross are the vestiges of the '85er crowd and the South American contingent. Unfortunately, ailments like being a conspiracy nut with poor pattern recognition skills or just having a terminal case of the stupids aren't age-bounded behaviors.

[Einherjar]

In any case, I just wonder how long long the lunatic fringe plans on keeping this up. Oh that name is just code for Row-bow-tech. Oh this one is a code for Row-bow-tech. Oh this company is shivering in their boots cuz of Row-bow-tech. Aren't these people 30 or 40 years old? Are they gonna keep doing this till they're 50 or something?

Since they're going to do it again anyway, might as well mock it to death.

From Wikipedia, here's a rundown of films coming up in 2012. Just pick one and call it Robotech already once people stop believing in Pacific Rim. See where that "speculation" gets you.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/2012_in_film

http://en.wikipedia....13_in_film#2013

Don't believe whatever synopsis or descriptions are already posted, at least one of them has to be Robotech in disguise!!!

Edited November 27, 2011 by Einherjar

[Dynaman]

I vote for Frankenweinie.

[Reïvaj]

I wouldn’t disregard the possibility of incorporating the Star Wars universe into the Robotech franchise. That would be awesome

[mecha2241]

Is it just me, or does MEMO now believe that Sony's getting involved the RLAM?

http://robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=2134875&forumid=31&pagenumber=1#post

[azrael]

I vote for Frankenweinie.

Skyfall. James Bond is just total code for Rick Hunter.

Is it just me, or does MEMO now believe that Sony's getting involved the RLAM?

They're all involved in Row-bow-tech.

[Einherjar]

Is it just me, or does MEMO now believe that Sony's getting involved the RLAM?

http://robotech.com/...genumber=1#post

Since there are apparently no real consequences in saying stuff like that, sure, why not. It's people's own damn fault for believing it.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Einherjar