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HG and Robotech Debates


azrael
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you know, in light of how successful the TOS-R run of remastered Star Trek episodes was, and TNG is currently next on the list, with HG owning the images in the US for Macross, etc... what's stopping them from remastering the films they own? its not like the series could NOT benifite from some of the sloppier animated segments... or can they? has who ever that owned Macross in japan considered the same?

HG could do whatever they want to the footage they have, except make anything derivative from the designs. TAside from rearranging the footage, HG is pretty much stuck in a rut with it. So far, it seems that all they can do (and not all that well IMO) is repackage, and resell the same ol' stuff. All HG can really do with the Macross episodes, is cleanup the picture, which has already been done. A reboot of Robotech would be cool, but it wouldn't have Macross in it at all. And, as has been said many times as well, do you think HG really has the right staff for that? They barely know their head from their stinky parts, so there you go.

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HG could do whatever they want to the footage they have, except make anything derivative from the designs. TAside from rearranging the footage, HG is pretty much stuck in a rut with it. So far, it seems that all they can do (and not all that well IMO) is repackage, and resell the same ol' stuff. All HG can really do with the Macross episodes, is cleanup the picture, which has already been done. A reboot of Robotech would be cool, but it wouldn't have Macross in it at all. And, as has been said many times as well, do you think HG really has the right staff for that? They barely know their head from their stinky parts, so there you go.

I always wondered how it worked exactly for the licensed products, like comics and games. They had no problems with using the character designs and names to all of the Macross and pre-Macross era designs in the Wildstorm comics, but when it came to Prelude, they got really weird about it. They totally re-designed Rick & Lisa, used Breetai, but gave him that ugly buckethead helmet from the Sentinels, and they only showed Minmei from behind.

Then there was Battlecry, which had all of the main characters, settings, etc

Is it like for licensed products (and technically not new animation), they can use all of the Macross-era designs as long as it takes place within the Marcross timeline, but anything that could be considered a sequel, it's a major no-no? I know animation-wise, they were afraid to use Max, Miriya, or Lisa because even with a redesign, they're names were still way too close the Macross names.

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Licensed products can seemingly use the designs period, since they fall under the merch license that HG has. Prelude was another story all together seeing as it had to tie in with Shadow Chronicles. Being new animation and not merch, SC "could not" use Macross or likely Southern Cross designs. As such, they had to go the entirely new route.

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Is it like for licensed products (and technically not new animation), they can use all of the Macross-era designs as long as it takes place within the Marcross timeline, but anything that could be considered a sequel, it's a major no-no? I know animation-wise, they were afraid to use Max, Miriya, or Lisa because even with a redesign, they're names were still way too close the Macross names.

What people have said here before (and I'm sure Azrael has proof) is that comics and games fall under "merchandise," and nobody has any doubt that HG has clear merchandising rights to the show(s).

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All HG can really do with the Macross episodes, is cleanup the picture, which has already been done. A reboot of Robotech would be cool, but it wouldn't have Macross in it at all.

Yep... and to reboot Robotech without having Macross in it would be sacrificing the show's single biggest point of appeal for the overwhelming majority of its fans. In short, it's suicide. <_<

jeez Seto, all that stuff you said sounds really convoluted and stupid

like a bad fanfic

It does a bit, doesn't it?

All the same, isn't that exactly what Robotech is? A really convoluted and stupid Macross fanfic?

(If not the series itself, then at the very least Tommy's rebooted Robotech universe is definitely an unnecessarily convoluted and obnoxious piece of fan-fiction.)

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LOS ANGELES (October 5, 2011) — Harmony Gold will host a special screening of the new documentary Carl Macek’s Robotech Universe at the Harmony Gold Preview House in Hollywood on October 17, 2011 at 8 p.m.

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I always wondered how it worked exactly for the licensed products, like comics and games. They had no problems with using the character designs and names to all of the Macross and pre-Macross era designs in the Wildstorm comics, but when it came to Prelude, they got really weird about it. They totally re-designed Rick & Lisa, used Breetai, but gave him that ugly buckethead helmet from the Sentinels, and they only showed Minmei from behind.

Then there was Battlecry, which had all of the main characters, settings, etc

Is it like for licensed products (and technically not new animation), they can use all of the Macross-era designs as long as it takes place within the Marcross timeline, but anything that could be considered a sequel, it's a major no-no? I know animation-wise, they were afraid to use Max, Miriya, or Lisa because even with a redesign, they're names were still way too close the Macross names.

Ahhh, I hate this new board, as it jumbles all the mulitquotes together. Anyways, They'll always use it in merchandising, which comics, video games, and that sort, fall under. Even though story can be told via those types of media, I think HG wants to stay away from that, as the comics that told the Tommy story were crap beyond crap. The art was better than comico and the other comics previous, but if that's the only plus to them, then again, the lack of impact with their ability to tell a decent story rears its head again.

What people have said here before (and I'm sure Azrael has proof) is that comics and games fall under "merchandise," and nobody has any doubt that HG has clear merchandising rights to the show(s).

I remember Tommy and co. saying something that had verified this a long time ago. I'm sure one of the moron minions will start pouting and saying "show me proof". Hmmm, I would reply, "show me proof that it isn't the case".

LOS ANGELES (October 5, 2011) — Harmony Gold will host a special screening of the new documentary Carl Macek's Robotech Universe at the Harmony Gold Preview House in Hollywood on October 17, 2011 at 8 p.m.

I wonder if all the people realize that they are going to a theater to watch a documentary that is an extra in a DVD that runs about 30 minutes, and they have to dress formal for the event. There's some interesting facts about this documentary that I know will pop up later. Some of it is things that are just so incredibly stupid, you have to shake your head at, to things that just don't make sense, and a lot of tell tale signs of incompetency. Good stuff on our end, I guess.

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Since HG can't touch the deisgns in in animation, they can't simple touch up what was done. They'd have to animae a show from scratch with entirely new designs.

Or they could do a remake as a game, then sell a DVD video walk-through of the game.

lol.

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I wonder if all the people realize that they are going to a theater to watch a documentary that is an extra in a DVD that runs about 30 minutes, and they have to dress formal for the event. There's some interesting facts about this documentary that I know will pop up later. Some of it is things that are just so incredibly stupid, you have to shake your head at, to things that just don't make sense, and a lot of tell tale signs of incompetency. Good stuff on our end, I guess.

I think it would have more significance if it debuted during the actual 25th anniversary of the franchise and did not look like a big advertisement for the A&E DVD set coming out at the same time. In fact, it might be the most significant piece of advertisement out there at all for it.

Also, anyone hear about the story of the debut of Manos: The Hands of Fate?

Or they could do a remake as a game, then sell a DVD video walk-through of the game.

lol.

Screw the walk-through, just make the game as interactive as the Xenosaga games; so many cutscenes that you can string them together into a DVD movie avoiding the tedious gameplay altogether while pricing it as a videogame.

Edited by Einherjar
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Yep... and to reboot Robotech without having Macross in it would be sacrificing the show's single biggest point of appeal for the overwhelming majority of its fans. In short, it's suicide. <_<

It can be done. Once you strip out the character and mecha designs, you're left with the story. Just take the bare-bones of the story (ship crashes on Earth, opening humanity's door to the stars and wars with aliens). You'll have a generic sci-fi story...... which one would think they could work with...

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I know HG doesn't own the Macross designs, but possibly there might not be a legal problem if they remade Robotech:

1. It's not intended to be Macross.

2. It's not a sequel.

3. It's not a new show.

4. Tatsunoko/HG would be remaking their own animation.

5. It's outside Japan.

Would Studio Nue need to be compensated for their work? Doesn't the AnimEigo set contain an altered version of Macross?

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It can be done. Once you strip out the character and mecha designs, you're left with the story. Just take the bare-bones of the story (ship crashes on Earth, opening humanity's door to the stars and wars with aliens). You'll have a generic sci-fi story...... which one would think they could work with...

Wouldn't they still be vulnerable to accusations of copyright breaches? Sure the characters and designs would be different, but it would still be known where the original story came from.

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Wouldn't they still be vulnerable to accusations of copyright breaches? Sure the characters and designs would be different, but it would still be known where the original story came from.

It would depend on the changes. Along the lines The Lion King and Kimba: The White Lion. And it would fall on Big West to file a copyright claim against whomever is making the story. I don't recall Tezuka Productions filing a copyright infringement on Disney in Japan. It would depend on how a reboot would decide to cross that line. How do you want to play a reboot?

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Wouldn't they still be vulnerable to accusations of copyright breaches? Sure the characters and designs would be different, but it would still be known where the original story came from.

That would be a very generic story. I don't think they could sue HG based on what the story used to be.

They'll never get anywhere until they do this though since they are so bogged down by the current story. A fresh start would allow them to at least put out a more coherent story.

The long time fans would still watch a reboot and it would at least bring in new fans. The problem for them is actually getting someone to fund the project. How do you convince a sponsor that your mildly successful 80's show can compete against the other 80's revivals shows that were much more successful even all those years ago.

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well i light of how the Macross the First looks, would they (TPTB in japan) consider animating M1st to finally remove the sad story that was the original, because of all of HG's monkeywork? i mean, we can all agree that America has been blacklisted from macross products because of HG's continued existance and legal control of the macross property rights. what could happen once HG loses their rights (or they sell them to someone else who would be more than willing to work with the japanesse)?

a bizzare thought-fart occured when i was down stairs... HG loses macross. the new owner wants to work with the japanesse owners on a mega project: reanimating macross with the consent of both making M1st as anime, AND allowing the new stateside owners to remake Robotech...

wow. i need to rub my brain with 80-grit for that line-of-fart.... :blink:

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So no news out of New York?

They showed the trailer for Robotech 2012(a.k.a. Mospeada 0.5: Lancer's Happy AWOL Experience*) again. Also, they announced the the exclusive commentary screening in LA.

*It's from "Whose Line is it Anyway?"

Edited by Einherjar
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They showed the trailer for Robotech 2012(a.k.a. Mospeada 0.5: Lancer's Happy AWOL Experience) again. Also, they announced the the exclusive commentary screening in LA.

So I was right on another message board (ANN) when I said that they probably said nothing of significance.

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That tweet was from June....Yeah, this Mechwarrior revival is starting to enter Duke Nukem Forever-vaporware status. Oh wait, it's Piranha Games, the people who actually made DNF and it still was crap.

I'd believe them that the delay isn't related to HG...

Piranha started a new twitter page this month for the game, and is slowly revealing concept art and a release date piece by piece.

AblK3AZCMAEjiCt.jpg

Could this be an Unseen?

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you know, in light of how successful the TOS-R run of remastered Star Trek episodes was, and TNG is currently next on the list,

I think its really funny how Paramount is so tentative about this though, releasing the little "taster" disk first to see if people are interested in it. They once had much more confidence in this franchise and would have released all of it without a second thought. Now they aren't so sure....

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I think its really funny how Paramount is so tentative about this though, releasing the little "taster" disk first to see if people are interested in it. They once had much more confidence in this franchise and would have released all of it without a second thought. Now they aren't so sure....

Another reason for that is because remastering TNG is a lot more work than TOS. TOS was all on film, so they easily restore that to HD. For the VFX / Composite shots of TNG, most of them were transferred to SD video first, meaning an extensive re-do of a lot of those shots is needed.

If you ever watch them on DVD or Netflix, you'll notice those shots are a little murkier than the rest.

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Except it was no less of an effort to completely redo all the effects shots. I think the major difference is 7 seasons vs 3.

The TNG shots are actually much more extensive. Like when you have Picard standing in front of the viewscreen, switching between a shot of the person he's talking to, and then to the ship they're in. They've got re-do the shot the of ship, take the original footage of both Picard and the person he's talking to, and recompisite all three. TOS was light on the VFX, usually just including changing the color of the planet the Enterprise flew over, and adding a few phaser beams.

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I was under the impression that while they changed a lot of the ship models to CG in TOS, the TNG remaster would still be using the same model footage with new phaser blasts, computer screens & whatnots added in.

Edited by Keith
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Piranha started a new twitter page this month for the game, and is slowly revealing concept art and a release date piece by piece.

AblK3AZCMAEjiCt.jpg

Could this be an Unseen?

already better than anything HG has done in house.

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So, people are coming out to HG tonight in the fancy garb, to watch a DVD extra about Robotech, then have a after party "Tommy-wank" fest. I so frakkin' wish I could just spill the proverbial beans on some of the issues, and idiot decisions. Some will be obvious after people get this, some I'm not sure if it'll come out, but very interesting stuff. Then, there's the stuff, that even if you don't necessarily like Robotech, you wish it was OK to just shoot spitwads at them. Some amount of ridicule will come, as they almost ask for it with their "direction".

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So, people are coming out to HG tonight in the fancy garb, to watch a DVD extra about Robotech, then have a after party "Tommy-wank" fest.

You left out the part where the "DVD extra" in question is a heavily revisionist and biased version of a story that most of them already own a more honest version of. Essentially, the Robotech fans attending this "premiere" are dressing up and heading over to Harmony Gold to watch the addition of a few more colorful distortions the heavily rose-tinted "company line" on Carl's contribution to one of the most embarrassing chapters in anime history.

Then, there's the stuff, that even if you don't necessarily like Robotech, you wish it was OK to just shoot spitwads at them. Some amount of ridicule will come, as they almost ask for it with their "direction".

Oh, it's inevitable... in their desperate attempts to have their show and their company taken seriously, Harmony Gold managed to alienate not only the greater portion of the Robotech fandom, but also significant portions of Macross and Battletech's fan bases as well. In a very real way, they're running out of people they haven't pissed off yet.

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So I was right on another message board (ANN) when I said that they probably said nothing of significance.

Was there any talk about the documentary there? I wanted to see if there was actually any interest outside of a certain website. So far I've only seen press releases about the premiere and the A&E set.

Also, my post might have been premature. There was some new information, stuff about finding out the title of the side story if you buy the new DVDs or go to future panels. That's significant, right? Whatever it is, I'll stick to Lancer's Happy AWOL Experience.

Edited by Einherjar
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Was there any talk about the documentary there? I wanted to see if there was actually any interest outside of a certain website. So far I've only seen press releases about the premiere and the A&E set.

Also, my post might have been premature. There was some new information, stuff about finding out the title of the side story if you buy the new DVDs or go to future panels. That's significant, right? Whatever it is, I'll stick to Lancer's Happy AWOL Experience.

Nope, there wasn't a thing about the Robotech panel at NYCC on Anime News Network. There was only a member on the message boards asking what was said in the panel. Not even ANN seems to want to touch anything Robotech.

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