DYRL SDF-1 Command Heirarchy

[Cyclone Trooper]

Okay, now that the title has completely confused everyone and piqued your attention to actually read this thread, here's what I've been wondering...

The DYRL SDF-1, unlike the TV version, was designed right out of the gate to allow docking of smaller vessels...in this case, the ARMD platforms. Whether or not they were designed to easily detach from the fortress proper and redock or not is never really covered in any kind of detail. Now, assuming that the rebuilt SDF-1 was supposed to have two permanently-attached ARMDs, are the bridges of each of these "arms" always manned? And if so, why? Are the bridge crews of the ARMDs just there to coordinate Valkyrie launches and squadron deployment? Are there two other captains besides Global? I do apologize if this has been covered elsewhere years ago, but this is just something that's always bugged me. I never could wrap my mind around the "Voltron Syndrome" where there's a "pilot" (or in this case, a captain) in each limb of the "combined" mecha...so this question sort of falls into that same mindframe with me.

Also, it seems like the DYRL version of the ARMD has TWO bridges...what's that all about? It has the bridge tower on the upper hull...and another bridge-like structure with a wrap-around viewport at the bow of the ship. The old Macross II RPG books actually state that these are indeed dual bridges, but we all know how accurate Palladium RPG subject matter is pertaining to Macross... Can anyone shed the tiniest pinpoint of light on these burning questions for me? Or at very least lend their own opinions?

I'm so confuzzled!

Edited March 13, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper

[hobbes221]

Well I don't have any source to back this up but my take is like this. One, as they say that the ARMDs are docked I would think that they could detach if needed. How fast might depend on what the need is, slow if everything going fine and fast if things are bad. The faster way would probably do damage to the docking mounts of both ships.

As such each ship would have her own captain but in the Navy today the captain of a ship does not have to have the rank of Captain. Each ARMD could have the senior officer be a Commander or whatnot. As they seem to be three ships you could just look at it like they are a small task force, command would be no different as the SDF-1 would have command of it's escorts. This way they are just connected. I mean just look how a carrier battle group works in today's world, the carrier has overall command.

To the roles of the duel bridge design, the tower could be for flight ops and the other for ship control but both having the capability to take on both roles in the event of damage to ether area.

Hope this helps, and I would like here other ideas as well

[Killer Robot]

Multiple bridges aren't unknown in real world warships in any case, and one of the scale of the Macross would have all the more reason. Especially outfitted with both ARMDs, there are hundreds of fighters to deal with apart from the combined ship itself. The difference between control of the ship and flight control has been raised: also, in the case of fleet operations a flagship might commonly have an "Admiral's bridge" for the admiral to use in fleet command, while the ship is actually controlled on a tactical level from the separate captain's bridge. On the other hand, Macross, like many sci-fi franchises, seems to have one officer serve both as admiral and captain of the flagship in fleet-based situations, so as to be less confusing to the audience.

[Cyclone Trooper]

On the other hand, Macross, like many sci-fi franchises, seems to have one officer serve both as admiral and captain of the flagship in fleet-based situations, so as to be less confusing to the audience.

...and ironically, confuses me more by simplifying things. The bridge of the SDF-1 itself is a six-story structure with at least 3 levels just at the viewport level. The "main bridge" is designed like a high-tech balcony where Global runs the whole thing. Directly beneath the main bridge is supposed to be Tactical Control, where all armament except the main cannon is handled. Then below that, are two outboard catwalk-like crew decks with larger versions of the Threat Board on the main bridge...and the lower holographic display between them. And if you listen carefully during the opening of DYRL, you can specifically hear in both Japanese (and English!!) various crew members barking orders, including someone telling an Elintseeker pilot, "don't send radar signals to the bridge!" So apparently the fortress itself has a flight coordination crew just like the ARMDs do.

Maybe its because I overanalyze things too much that I'm trying to make sense out of something that, at the end of the day, is just an anime...lol

Edited March 13, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper

[eugimon]

...and ironically, confuses me more by simplifying things. The bridge of the SDF-1 itself is a six-story structure with at least 3 levels just at the viewport level. The "main bridge" is designed like a high-tech balcony where Global runs the whole thing. Directly beneath the main bridge is supposed to be Tactical Control, where all armament except the main cannon is handled. Then below that, are two outboard catwalk-like bridge stations with larger versions of the Threat Board on the main bridge...and the lower holographic display between them. And if you listen carefully during the opening of DYRL, you can specifically hear in both Japanese (and English!!) various crew members barking orders, including someone telling an Elintseeker pilot, "don't send radar signals to the bridge!" So apparently the fortress itself has a flight coordination crew just like the ARMDs do.

Maybe its because I overanalyze things too much that I'm trying to make sense out of something that, at the end of the day, is just an anime...lol

I would imagine the ARMDs when docked to the SDF don't manage the flights themselves, they just coordinate the launches/ captures, weapons, etc. and the main bridge handles all the actual operations stuff.

[jenius]

The TV Macross was always meant to dock with the ARMDs also so this isn't a DYRL specific question. Gloval just uses the carriers instead because he folds to the wrong spot.

[anime52k8]

Okay, now that the title has completely confused everyone and piqued your attention to actually read this thread, here's what I've been wondering...

The DYRL SDF-1, unlike the TV version, was designed right out of the gate to allow docking of smaller vessels...in this case, the ARMD platforms. Whether or not they were designed to easily detach from the fortress proper and redock or not is never really covered in any kind of detail. Now, assuming that the rebuilt SDF-1 was supposed to have two permanently-attached ARMDs, are the bridges of each of these "arms" always manned? And if so, why? Are the bridge crews of the ARMDs just there to coordinate Valkyrie launches and squadron deployment? Are there two other captains besides Global? I do apologize if this has been covered elsewhere years ago, but this is just something that's always bugged me. I never could wrap my mind around the "Voltron Syndrome" where there's a "pilot" (or in this case, a captain) in each limb of the "combined" mecha...so this question sort of falls into that same mindframe with me.

This is just speculation on my part but I think that once docked, the ARMD's were never meant to detach again (save for during a major refit). I think that the bridges did remain maned, but they aren't commanded by a captain and bridge crew the same way they would be when they are separated. they probably have crew that operate the ARMD's onboad systems and what not, and more than likely the they have an air operations crew on each ARMD to coordinate launch and recovery on each ship independently.

now the SDF-1 itself has an area for Air operations, since the SDF-1 could launch aircraft without the ARMD's. I think that the tower on the SDF-1's bridge controls the airspace around the ship and coordinates between the two ARMD's.

Also, it seems like the DYRL version of the ARMD has TWO bridges...what's that all about? It has the bridge tower on the upper hull...and another bridge-like structure with a wrap-around viewport at the bow of the ship. The old Macross II RPG books actually state that these are indeed dual bridges, but we all know how accurate Palladium RPG subject matter is pertaining to Macross... Can anyone shed the tiniest pinpoint of light on these burning questions for me? Or at very least lend their own opinions?

I'm so confuzzled!

It actually makes sense that the ARMD has two bridges, sort of. On a real aircraft carrier, the bridge where the ship is sailed from is on a separate level of the ships island from the tower where flight deck operations are controlled. On the ARMD the control of the ship itself is handled from one bridge, and control of air operations is handled form the other (the decision to have 2 bridges probably stems from the fact that the TV ARMD has it's only bridge right at the front of the ship.)

as for which bridge is which I have no idea. having the air operations bridge being the tall island like structure would make sense since it has a clear view of the flight deck, but then again it might be the structure in the front since the massive window would give a better view of incoming aircraft.

[RedWolf]

the ARMD's were never meant to detach again

In Macross TV the first gen ARMDs were supposed to dock with the Macross but the Zentradi made it impossible.

Note also the Megaroad Class also has ARMDs.

ARMDs therefore can detach but their added firepower is better needed than being separated.

[anime52k8]

In Macross TV the first gen ARMDs were supposed to dock with the Macross but the Zentradi made it impossible.

Note also the Megaroad Class also has ARMDs.

ARMDs therefore can detach but their added firepower is better needed than being separated.

I was always under the impression that once they docked it weren't supposed to come off again, as in the two dock and then a team of technicians would bolt them together permanently.

[RedWolf]

Well if you look at Macross 7 the idea of a docked military vessel to a civilian one never went gone.

They inherited this function fron the ARMDs.

[Cyclone Trooper]

And honestly, if you want to look at this from a pure "anime" point of view...the SDF-1 needed SOMETHING to resemble arms when it transformed into a humanoid form...be it ARMD platforms or seagoing vessels never originally meant to be spaceworthy...

[anime52k8]

And honestly, if you want to look at this from a pure "anime" point of view...the SDF-1 needed SOMETHING to resemble arms when it transformed into a humanoid form...be it ARMD platforms or seagoing vessels never originally meant to be spaceworthy...

but they're semi-submersible! space, underwater, same difference...

[JB0]

The TV Macross was always meant to dock with the ARMDs also so this isn't a DYRL specific question. Gloval just uses the carriers instead because he folds to the wrong spot.

They even mention it in the show. Global is ordering them to dock with the ARMDs and the zentradi fire an attack to prevent them from meeting up.

[Cyclone Trooper]

Well, the main question wasn't whether the ARMDs were or weren't permanently docked or not. It was more a question of what role the "captains" and bridge crews of the ARMDs play in the command heirarchy. Do they actually hold the rank of Captain like Global or are they lower-ranking officers? Most of the answers thus far make sense in the respect that they are basically auxiliary bridges used for vessel-specific functions. Each ARMD bridge coordinates Valkyries launches/landings, squadron deployment, etc. while the SDF-1 bridge takes over once the Valkyries are deployed and their missions are underway.

DYRL really answered by own question (I think) in the "press conference" scene where Global explains how humans and Zentraedi are genetically similar, were both created by the Protoculture, etc. There are several other men sitting at the conference table with him with the same exact command uniforms that he is wearing. These men were perhaps the captains of their respective ARMDs. I could be completely off base with this assumption, but it works for me. For all I know, they may actually be Global's attaches, adjutants, or the UN Spacy's Joint Chiefs of Staff appointed to the SDF-1.

Going back to the permanent/not permanent argument, I think the DYRL versions of the ARMDs were definitely permanent. The one and only reason I have for that is the fact that ARMD-01 and ARMD-02 are mirror images of one another, thereby suggesting that they were specifically designed to be permanent components of the SDF-1. All other ARMDs follow a standard deckplan layout. Maybe there is a specific sub-class of ARMD that was designated to dock with larger vessels like SDF-1 or Megaroad while the others were designed for independent operation.

[cayden]

I think the ARMDs are permanently docked to the SDF-1. In the opening sequence of video game "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?" the SDF-1 can be seen folding out of South Ataria Island and has the ARMDs already attached.

[Cyclone Trooper]

I think the ARMDs are permanently docked to the SDF-1. In the opening sequence of video game "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?" the SDF-1 can be seen folding out of South Ataria Island and has the ARMDs already attached.

HOLY CRAP! I've never seen that before! It was animation done specifically for the video game, but fills in gaps in DYRL like the destruction of the Prometheus. Then that settles it as far as I'm concerned whether the ARMDs were attached prior to launch or not...

It also sort of proves that DYRL isn't a "movie-within-a-TV-series" but just a bigger budget retelling of the TV series...

That was awesome!

Edited March 14, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper

[Roy Focker]

Global is actually a General. You might consider the SDF-1 + 2 ARMDs as a fleet.

[HannouHeiki]

Global is actually a General. You might consider the SDF-1 + 2 ARMDs as a fleet.

That's right, his title is "captain" of the Macross, but his actual rank is general. The "captains" of the ARMDs could be any rank who are subordinate to Global.

[VFTF1]

The key question is this:

When the ARMD ships attach, are they still considered ARMD... or are they now Macross?

I think they are now Macross. When your smaller ship attached to a main larger ship, you cede authority.

In any event, the real authority behind all of Macross is pretty lasses who sing anyways.

Pete

[the white drew carey]

I guess it goes from God, to Jerry, to you, to the cleaners.

[RedWolf]

The key question is this:

When the ARMD ships attach, are they still considered ARMD... or are they now Macross?

Pete

They are still ARMDs. Or else they wouldn't be called ARMD-XX.

[dreamweaver13]

The key question is this:

When the ARMD ships attach, are they still considered ARMD... or are they now Macross?

I think they are now Macross. When your smaller ship attached to a main larger ship, you cede authority.

In any event, the real authority behind all of Macross is pretty lasses who sing anyways.

Pete

I'd think it's still the ARMD, the same way that the Daedelus is still the Daedelus. otherwise we would have had Misa shouting "MAKUROS PUNCH"!

[RedWolf]

I'd think it's still the ARMD, the same way that the Daedelus is still the Daedelus. otherwise we would have had Misa shouting "MAKUROS PUNCH"!

SRW does have Global shouting "ARMD Attack".

[Gubaba]

But of course, as we all know from Macross II, the Macross's bridge is detachable...is THAT a separate ship, too...?

[RedWolf]

But of course, as we all know from Macross II, the Macross's bridge is detachable...is THAT a separate ship, too...?

No comment.

They made the ARMDs and the engine blocks where the city used to be into heavy energy convergeance beam cannons.

And the ARMDs cracked!

[dreamweaver13]

But of course, as we all know from Macross II, the Macross's bridge is detachable...is THAT a separate ship, too...?

And don't forget the solitary escape pod supposedly located somewhere in the bridge...

[Gubaba]

And don't forget the solitary escape pod supposedly located somewhere in the bridge...

Psst...that's Robotech...

[oneiros]

Hello, well thinking about having more than one captain inside the sdf-1 i was thinking that here

in Mexico there are different military degrees for captain in the navy, for example this is more or

less a translation of the official military degrees( i don't know the exact translation sorry if there

are mistakes)

sloop of war (or corvette) captain (in spanish is capitan the corbeta)

frigate captain (in spanish capitan de fragata

ship (or ship of the line) captain (in spanish capitan de navio)

and depending on the size of the ship is the rank of the captain being the ship captain the highest

ranking officer, and well following this line of thought Global is in command of the biggest ship and

because of that maybe he is like what happens here in Mexico the highest ranking officer and the

captains of the other two ships his subordinates

[kanedaestes]

As a vet myself I agree with others on the rank system. Global is the General, and all other roles are Colonels, Lower Generals and so forth. They can operate on their own command but must inform Global and his command section of everything. Global commands are law and when is in charge during major operations everyone listens and follows what he says.

[dreamweaver13]

Psst...that's Robotech...

yup, but that escape pod still has a name, and it's name is Crap.

[Bri]

Quite possible that the commanders of the ARMDs have other tasks when they are on the SDF-1, not sure if they are full time captains.

Curious what the job of the commander of an amfibious landing ship/hovercraft is, when it is aboard their troop transports at sea?

[d3v]

Gloval probably also functions as commander of the "strike group" (SDF + docked ARMDs). If we try to compare it to modern CSG operations, Misa and Roy function as, or are analogous to the CO and CAG of the SDF-1 - presumably co-equal under Gloval's command.

[Fade Rathnik]

Considering the pre docked arms of the Macross were originally designed to function as fighter bays. I would say that the tactic of splitting up the fighter and ship force to secure a larger area. Perhaps use one of the ARMDs in a scout or power projection role. Notes on the design state that it originally includes provisions for a fold system. Think about it, instant flanking maneuver.