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Several Macross Articles at Wikipedia need your help!!!&#3


Kronnang Dunn
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I just discovered several articles related to the Macross universe are at risk of being deleted if they are not given the proper references/citations for all the information in them... :unsure:

The articles are:

SDF-1 Macross (ship)

VF-1 Valkyrie

Protoculture (Macross)

SDF-2 Megaroad 01

Please, if you are a Wikipedia member join the discussion and post your vote to keep them.

Also, if any of you know of reliable sources for the material in those articles include the proper references in them...

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LOL!

I'm just surprised more Macross pages aren't up for deletion. Most of them are ungodly verbose, full of misinformation, and have piss poor grammar.

We have the Compendium and that's enough. The few Wiki pages that do list actual citations use the Compendium as their cited source, so it's not like they're contributing anything new to the table. :p

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they might as well delete x-wing, starship enterprise etc while they are at it

And therein lies the problem with science fiction articles on Wikipedia. You have all these deletionists running around always decrying the terror of "fancruft." So there's always someone who wants to delete articles about Gundam, Macross and anything else anime-related. Yet there can be a zillion articles of "fancruft" on Star Wars and Star Trek, but no one ever dares to try to delete them. I wouldn't bother trying to save them, honestly. Someone else will just come along to delete them again because this anti-anime bias at Wikipedia is persistent. And besides, who really needs to get Macross technical information on Wikipedia when we have the Compendium?

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Not the SDF-2 Megaroad 01?! :o

We need to convince Wikipedia not to delete this or any Macross-related article.

Some of their Macross articles also contain Robotech info. THAT is more of an insult.

Taksraven

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I looked at the articles and the site last night. Going by the rules of the site, I believe the reasons why the articles are slated for deletion are:

a) all of their content is available elsewhere, in an unbiased form, elsewhere on the internet.

b) the relevancy of the content, outside of the series (as in the real world) is unclear or unstated.

IMHO, if the articles can be fixed to show their real-world relevance, stressing that this added content is not on the Compendium, they have a greater chance of being saved.

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I looked at the articles and the site last night. Going by the rules of the site, I believe the reasons why the articles are slated for deletion are:

a) all of their content is available elsewhere, in an unbiased form, elsewhere on the internet.

That sort of Wikipedia logic just boggles my mind. I thought that the purpose of an encyclopaedia was to put information into one place, to create a useful resource.

It can be a screwy information resource anyway. I have tried in the past to get certain pages on Wikipedia to be more 'balanced and unbiased', but there are people who hang out there *all day every day* who want to push a certain bias. (This has been the case with political pages rather than Macross ones) Then the stupid bastards give themselves and each other these moronic stars to try to say how good they are.

Taksraven

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To hell with Wikipedia, we only need a single page which redirects to the Compendium.

I've been following the various scandals about Wikipedia, and I've come to the conclusion that it's become as corrupt as any sufficiently-large organization must inevitably become.

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That sort of Wikipedia logic just boggles my mind. I thought that the purpose of an encyclopaedia was to put verifiable information into one place, to create a useful resource.

Fixed! :)

The major problem with most of those macross articles is that they provide no citations, that's why they're up for deletion. I think that's the problem with a lot of the anime articles on wikipedia. According to wikipedia's rules...

The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is *verifiability*, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true.

The few macross articles that do list citations, all point right back to the Compendium. In order for an article to be considered encylopedic, it should reference information from multiple sources, not just the Compendium.

An article that faithfully reflects the information and intent of a large number of high quality sources is likely to be a very reliable indicator of the current state of knowledge on a subject. An article with fewer or no sources listed or sources of lower quality may not reflect a researcher's desired high quality.

So yeah, since those pages don't even follow wikipedia's own guidelines, I don't see why they should be saved.

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This has come up before with many other franchises and the reason is always the same: the Wikipedia is not meant to be a fan website. The Wikipedia is supposed to be a general purpose encyclopedia, not an exhaustive record of every subject it covers. Basically, enthusiastic Wikipedia users are exceeding the website's mandate, building literally hundreds of pages devoted to an exhaustive analysis of the fictional minutiae of their favorite fictional franchises. Which isn't all that surprising, since so many people turn to the Wikipedia as their first source of information online. I know I do.

Having said that, if fans want to create Wikipedia-style pages for any franchise (Macross included) they should build a dedicated Wiki of their own (or, a fan site of their own). It's clear that the number of powers a Dragonball character has at a certain stage is not what the Wikipedia deems appropriate for it's website. I don't necessarily agree with Wikipedia's policy (since it would be great if there was one, popular destination for the sum of all human knowledge, no matter how trivial), but I understand it.

If fan-fluff articles from Star Wars and Star Trek remain on the Wikipedia while others are deleted, to me that's simply an example of the tyranny of popularity. However, both Star Wars and Star Trek now have fan-run Wiki's of their own.

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This has come up before with many other franchises and the reason is always the same: the Wikipedia is not meant to be a fan website. The Wikipedia is supposed to be a general purpose encyclopedia, not an exhaustive record of every subject it covers. Basically, enthusiastic Wikipedia users are exceeding the website's mandate, building literally hundreds of pages devoted to an exhaustive analysis of the fictional minutiae of their favorite fictional franchises. Which isn't all that surprising, since so many people turn to the Wikipedia as their first source of information online. I know I do.

Having said that, if fans want to create Wikipedia-style pages for any franchise (Macross included) they should build a dedicated Wiki of their own (or, a fan site of their own). It's clear that the number of powers a Dragonball character has at a certain stage is not what the Wikipedia deems appropriate for it's website. I don't necessarily agree with Wikipedia's policy (since it would be great if there was one, popular destination for the sum of all human knowledge, no matter how trivial), but I understand it.

If fan-fluff articles from Star Wars and Star Trek remain on the Wikipedia while others are deleted, to me that's simply an example of the tyranny of popularity. However, both Star Wars and Star Trek now have fan-run Wiki's of their own.

I agree completely, and I'd go further...if Wikipedia has a bias at all, it's towards geekdom. Every minute detail of the Star Wars Expanded Universe is commented upon, and the section on, say, the works of Thomas Mann is woefully inadequate by comparison. An article on the Megaroad-01 is useful and necessary for a Macross Wiki, less so for Wikipedia.

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I remember there was a parody (I believe it was at the SomethingAwful website) that compared the size of Wikipedia articles in a rather hilarious fashion. Apparently at one time, Sonic The Hedgehog was one of the largest articles on the Wikipedia, out-sizing their article on Jesus :)

But seriously, haven't I always said there should be more Macross fan sites, not less? The Wikipedia has been used as a poor-man's fan site for years and I can't blame them for pruning their site of fluff that isn't what their website should be used for. Fans should really build their own fan sites. There are even fan wikis out there, for those that MUST have a Wiki-format website. The Battlestar Galactica Wiki is incredible and one of the most indispensable fan sites on the net. If Macross had the kind of fan sites that Star Wars has, the Wiki would be redundant.

Edited by Mr March
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I remember there was a parody (I believe it was at the SomethingAwful website) that compared the size of Wikipedia articles in a rather hilarious fashion. Apparently at one time, Sonic The Hedgehog was one of the largest articles on the Wikipedia, out-sizing their article on Jesus :)

But seriously, haven't I always said there should be more Macross fan sites, not less? The Wikipedia has been used as a poor-man's fan site for years and I can't blame them for pruning their site of fluff that isn't what their website should be used for. Fans should really build their own fan sites. There are even fan wikis out there, for those that MUST have a Wiki-format website The Battlestar Galactica Wiki is incredible and one of the most indispensable fan sites on the net. If Macross had the kind of fan sites that Star Wars has, the Wiki would be redundant.

Well I'm still waiting on the official dimensions of Battlestar Valkyrie. Interestingly the

"Beast" Pegasus outsizes any Macross.

The Macross Class beats the Galactice in width and height.

Battle 7 and Battle Galaxy has greater lengths to the Galactica.

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Well I'm still waiting on the official dimensions of Battlestar Valkyrie. Interestingly the

"Beast" Pegasus outsizes any Macross.

The Macross Class beats the Galactice in width and height.

Battle 7 and Battle Galaxy has greater lengths to the Galactica.

Didn't the thread comparing Macross and Battlestar Galactica get locked...? ;)

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Didn't the thread comparing Macross and Battlestar Galactica get locked...? ;)

Yeah it was the frakking Star Wars debate that ended that.

The last I posted there was the effects of FTL on a nearby ship to a Fold.

I did get the feeling of a Golg Boddole Zer mothership with Cavil's Cylon Colony in the last ep of BSG.

As for the wiki problem one might say citations could solve it but some do not like very detailed sources.

I've had a dispute before on the deletion of references on Negima before as they relate to the mangaka's previous work.

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Just let it die! Wiki should be about common knowledge. Not otaku one, which is completely useless. Everytime i see an article full of "popular culture stuff" (usually is anime) i delete it, but almost everytime someone undoes it.

Well... From a very objective/realistic point of view you are right. However, I must confess that I have discovered most of the truth behind the differences between Robotech and Macross through Wikipedia. If they start deleting articles related to icons of the Macross franchise (The SDF-1 and the VF-1 above all) many people (noobs) will loose the chance to discover the whole scope of the Macross franchise like I did...

I think that a heavy re-edition of said articles to explain the background and importance of such icons (with the proper backing citaions an/or refrences) could be very helpful as a source of information on the anime franchise...

Am I right or am I right? B))

Edited by Kronnang Dunn
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Well... From a very objective/realistic point of view you are right. However, I must confess that I have discovered most of the truth behind the differences between Robotech and Macross through Wikipedia. If they start deleting articles related to icons of the Macross franchise (The SDF-1 and the VF-1 above all) many people (noobs) will loose the chance to discover the whole scope of the Macross franchise like I did...

I think that a heavy re-edition of said articles to explain the background and importance of such icons (with the proper backing citaions an/or refrences) could be very helpful as a source of information on the anime franchise...

Am I right or am I right? B))

So fold it all into the "Super Dimension Fortress Macross" entry, and make sure all the Robotech entries link to it.

That's the way I'd do it, at least. :)

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Don't worry about all-you-can-edit Wikipedia articles, we still have the Compendium and Mr.March M3. ^_^

To be honest the Compendium Wiki has like no information. Most links had like a sentence or a link to reference to another page with nothing in it. Frontier is probably the largest page on there. I'd rather have articles deleted on their then the Wikipedia ones which actually have a decent amount of information.

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To be honest the Compendium Wiki has like no information. Most links had like a sentence or a link to reference to another page with nothing in it. Frontier is probably the largest page on there. I'd rather have articles deleted on their then the Wikipedia ones which actually have a decent amount of information.

The thing with the Compendium is that it is based completely in Official Printed information. Therefore, the amount of information on it was pretty small at first. However, as the issues of the Macross Chronicle are released the information on it grows. If any of you have translated notes of the Chronicle feel free to contribute to the Compendium... ^_^

Btw... The article for deletion notice has been removed from the Wikipedia Macross pages I mentioned before... (apparently because no consensus for deletion was achieved)

Maybe the Zentradi-like load of references I posted helped...

Mission accomplished? :huh:

Edited by Kronnang Dunn
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From the complaints I'm hearing, many Macross fans are worried this pruning of the Wikipedia will create a lack of a proper "Macross franchise guide" available in the online world. Something that explains what Macross is, lists/describes episodes of each Macross series, list/describes all the Macross productions, includes layman facts/descriptions, details why Macross is different than Robotech and is basically dedicated to Macross and only Macross.

I agree. Macross fans need to build such a website. Time to step up.

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To be honest the Compendium Wiki has like no information. Most links had like a sentence or a link to reference to another page with nothing in it. Frontier is probably the largest page on there. I'd rather have articles deleted on their then the Wikipedia ones which actually have a decent amount of information.

A lot of the stuff still needs porting over from the old site.

Should be a relatively simple cut/paste job.

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