Shun Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The last line of ep 15 was "The ultimate dream of proto-culture, which they could not accomplish in 500,000 years." - well that shot down my first guess but support my second guess. i think its still possible that the vajra could be a later creation of the protoculture (remember the spiral symbols link to birdman link to PC). as for whatever the PC could not accomplish, we still do not know exactly what Grace meant when she said it. i hope its not just the simple goal of eliminating the vajra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I'm thinking you're right on that one, papabear. I'm not sure if it'll lead to anything overt or dramatic, but there is definitely a subtle environmental vibe running through some of the episodes. The equilibrium the humans have with their colony ship environments, the Ecological Protection Act that Nanase mentions, and so on. It's all a matter of interpretation. I sense that while there is certainly a teaching in Macross Frontier about the benefits of living in harmony with nature, there is also a teaching about the dangers of using good intentions to pass tyranical laws. After all, Nana pledges to go to jail with Ranka "if they are caught" - and their "crime" is cuddling a cute animal. There were no environmental protection acts in Macross Zero - because humanity does not need "environmental protection acts" to live in harmony with nature. In fact, all such "acts" are merely symptoms of the problem - man moving away from nature and creating an artificial society. Of course, it's hard for society to be anything BUT artificial on Frontier - since the entire thing is man made. I therefore understand the utility of certain strict laws that safeguard the general health of the population - however, it would seem to me that RANKA IS HERSELF A WALKING VIOLATION OF THE LAW. She is, after all, an alien - so should Ranka be tossed into space? If anything, Macross Frontier mirrors reality - where we have numerous similar regulations and numerous similar paradoxes and misunderstandings and tragedies that arise from them. Also - please do note that Galaxy has a completely different system worked out; not at all like Frontier. I imagine that different colony ships have their own different energy and power systems and ideas. There is another lesson for us: diversity. There need not be "one" solution to the problem of the environment vs technology - there are multiple possibilities and it is in the interest of humanity as such to allow diverse solutions. NUNS does not mandate one system for every colony. Macross Zero is beautiful because it shows that humanity does not require artifice for happiness. Macross Zero is not an ode to the EPA. These are two very different things. VFTF1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flabortast Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Sheryl singing alone does nothing, but Sheryl singing "Infinity" with Ranka caused an effect with the purple crystal earring that transmitted all the way to Alto. Sheryl seems to be failed attempt in duplicating Ranka (or maybe Sara who is of Mayan blood) but If the 2 sing together it is amplified? What exactly does Sheryl's singing do to make Ranka's more effective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucker4meltrans Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 brera is going to have a "i don't need my old memories i know who i am now" moment betray the evil AI conspiracy of the Galaxy and sac him self in an attempt to save Ranka. sherly will find out she is just another programmed clone in a series of clones, have a brief panic attack going "no no no i know who i am i am not a clone i am SHERYL!" and then activate super idol mode and through song use some funky power that will thrawt the evil AI ozma won't die but i see a carear ending injury in his future bobby will ram the quarter in to glaxay by him self as the last person on the ship and before its too late wilder will throw in him a escape pod and pilot the quarter him self in the galaxy mikhal being some zentran him self(look at those pointy ears) macronizes and admits his love for klan klan(we get the max and milia homage with out the loli) Luca admits his feelings for nanase and in response nana-san hugs his head against her very generous chest resulting in epic large nose bleed and black out for luca president glass is going to surprise leon and have him arrested and tossed out the air lock Ranka gets the sara nome ending i can just feel it, the virus in her is man made to allow her song to be transmitted through fold space to allow comms with the vajra vajra are a something left over from the high point of the protoculture civilizatoin before the protodevlin and the creation of the zentradi and the downfall of protoculutre the song aimo is actually a complex code that when translated into supder dimension energy and sent into fold space is some sort of "hi! can't we all be friends and peacefull?" Grace's AI conspiracy is working on the ultimate goal the protoculture civilization, the protoculture at the height of power started opening up portals to other planese of existance/alterante dimensions and their the found the protodevlin which instead of being benevolent beings of energy where parasitic ghouls that used other creatures bodies to exist in the normal world. so grace's aI faction might be trying to work the reverse leaving the physical mortal plane and become energ Bilrer the owner of SMS seems to have know about the vajra, super dimension crystals, grace, galaxy, 117th reasearch fleet, ranka for a very long time and might be part of some hidden group working to stop the evil doers galactic conquest and placed SMS and the Macross Quarter with the frontier fleeet for this very reason Hikaru, Misa and the Megaroad-1 will pop out of fold space having spent the psat 40 years or so in a fold space pocket where only a week as passed. the huge number of zentrandi battleships in the fleet will clear the sky of vajra and the galaxy fleets(i wish ) a Captain Isamu will arrive with a NUN Spacy strike force from edan(more wishfull thinking) alto will love ranka more then sheryl but something is going to happen to ranka to keep her away from him forever so alto gives into sherly's advances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 i think its still possible that the vajra could be a later creation of the protoculture (remember the spiral symbols link to birdman link to PC). as for whatever the PC could not accomplish, we still do not know exactly what Grace meant when she said it. i hope its not just the simple goal of eliminating the vajra. Just watched Kei subs. Maybe that dream is a New Stellar Republic... Perhaps they want to control everything and everyone in the Galaxy and Ranka is the key to that... (By using the Vajra perhaps?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucker4meltrans Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Just watched Kei subs. Maybe that dream is a New Stellar Republic... Perhaps they want to control everything and everyone in the Galaxy and Ranka is the key to that... (By using the Vajra perhaps?). hmm i think its something grander then galactic conquest. the protoculture stellar republic was succesfull and stable untill they mucked around in bringing in other creatures from other dimensions. grace and her collective are trying to do something the protoculture could never accomplish in 500,000 years of their history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) hmm i think its something grander then galactic conquest. the protoculture stellar republic was succesfull and stable untill they mucked around in bringing in other creatures from other dimensions. grace and her collective are trying to do something the protoculture could never accomplish in 500,000 years of their history. Nope. According to the Compendium its fast expansion and internal riffs led to civil wars (the "Schism Wars"). The "mucking around in bringing in other creatures from other dimensions" was a result of those conflicts... The Protoculture Stellar Republic wasn't really stable... Maybe that's what the Grace-selves want... A totally controlled New Stellar Republic with them as its masters... Edited July 19, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) The Protoculture Stellar Republic wasn't really stable... Maybe that's what the Grace-selves want... A totally controlled New Stellar Republic with them as its masters... Hmm, so Grace is not only a rogue AI remnant of Sharon Apple, she's also the final Cylon and it seems part of the Patriots? Edited July 22, 2008 by d3v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) it seems part of the Patroits? Yes... Shoji must have played MGS 2!!! (or 4) Edited July 19, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Yes... Shoji must have played MGS4!!! Yes, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucker4meltrans Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 The Vajra and the Galaxy will be stopped by the ultimate super concert! It will have Fire Bomber, Lynn Minmei, Myung, Sheryl, Ranka Lee, and Brerea all performing Aimo. It will be transmitte out into space via Super Dimension crystal enhanced fold communication. Mean while Hikaru, Isamu, Gamlin, Alto are all out in space butting heads over who the best pilot is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Hmm, so Grace is not only a rogue AI remnant of Sharon Apple, she's also the final Cylon and it seems part of the Patroits? If these guys are older than the human-Zentradi alliance I'm thinking it is perhaps Sharon Apple that attracted them to us in the first place. The same year that the Vajra was discovered was the same time Sharon Apple did her 30th Anniversary "Concert". Also it seems to me that the Birdman despite being biological is an AI too. With individuals like Sara Nome, Lynn Minmay, and Nekki Basara, humanity could be the key to what they are working for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weixing Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Hi, I'm new here and found this forum accidentally while searching for information on Macross Frontier. This is my very first post.... quite a long one for first post.. ha ha ha I saw Macross original when I was a kid and like it very much. I didn't watch Macross 7 and Macross plus (going soon once I had the time ) Anyway, Macross frontier was very nice and interesting... super animations and songs. So to join in the topic, I came out something.... all my wild guesses without linking to any other Macross series... just base on all the current information in all the episodes shown: Varja might be created by the scientists in the 117th research fleet (former LAI??) as biological weapon 11 years ago. The Varja are smart weapons design to use the fold communication waves in fold communication channel as guidance to attack targets. Grace are part of the neural network (shown a few times in few episodes) artificial intelligence program those scientists created to carry out the experiments and still continue the experiment even the scientists are dead (they are program to do the experiments). The artificial intelligence "live" in a virtual world in galaxy fleet LAI computer system (since the device use by grace to create the fold fault got "LAI" on it). They carry out their task in the form of very advanced, human like cyborgs created in the galaxy fleet (galaxy fleet is very advanced in this field)... that's why grace just need to reprogram another copy of the cyborg to live on and may be the reason the Varja is attacking galaxy fleet as they want to take total control of the galaxy fleet from the humans. Anyway, may be Ranka is one of the scientists daughter in 117th research fleet who create Varja and secretly embed some form of devices in Ranka as a precaution which cause the Varja to recognize her as their queen and won't attack her. This protect her from attack by the Varja, so when the Varja go out of control and destroy the 117th research fleet, she survives from the destruction of 117th research fleet. Sheryl may be used by the artificial intelligence as a convenience way to travel around all other fleets without any suspicion to find suitable experiments ground for their experiments on Vajra. Her earring may be is a type of fold communication devices use to monitor her every moment and that why Sheryl and Ranka voices can be hear by Alto during the battle as the voice travel through the earrings (fold communication devices). Brera may be Ranka biological brother (grace mention he want to regain his past in ep 10 and Brera know the same song as Ranka) and may be was seriously wounded during the attack of 117th research fleet by Vajra. Those artificial intelligence rescue him by transfer his thoughts to a cyborgs and control him. That's why Brera can pilot the VF-27 which no humans can withstand the physical stress and have the physical abilities to rescue Ranka from the hydra. Anyway, all the above are just my happy wild guesses. Happy watching and have a nice day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 19, 2008 Author Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) Hi, I'm new here and found this forum accidentally while searching for information on Macross Frontier. This is my very first post.... quite a long one for first post.. ha ha ha I saw Macross original when I was a kid and like it very much. I didn't watch Macross 7 and Macross plus (going soon once I had the time ) Anyway, Macross frontier was very nice and interesting... super animations and songs. So to join in the topic, I came out something.... all my wild guesses without linking to any other Macross series... just base on all the current information in all the episodes shown: Varja might be created by the scientists in the 117th research fleet (former LAI??) as biological weapon 11 years ago. The Varja are smart weapons design to use the fold communication waves in fold communication channel as guidance to attack targets. Grace are part of the neural network (shown a few times in few episodes) artificial intelligence program those scientists created to carry out the experiments and still continue the experiment even the scientists are dead (they are program to do the experiments). The artificial intelligence "live" in a virtual world in galaxy fleet LAI computer system (since the device use by grace to create the fold fault got "LAI" on it). They carry out their task in the form of very advanced, human like cyborgs created in the galaxy fleet (galaxy fleet is very advanced in this field)... that's why grace just need to reprogram another copy of the cyborg to live on and may be the reason the Varja is attacking galaxy fleet as they want to take total control of the galaxy fleet from the humans. Anyway, may be Ranka is one of the scientists daughter in 117th research fleet who create Varja and secretly embed some form of devices in Ranka as a precaution which cause the Varja to recognize her as their queen and won't attack her. This protect her from attack by the Varja, so when the Varja go out of control and destroy the 117th research fleet, she survives from the destruction of 117th research fleet. Sheryl may be used by the artificial intelligence as a convenience way to travel around all other fleets without any suspicion to find suitable experiments ground for their experiments on Vajra. Her earring may be is a type of fold communication devices use to monitor her every moment and that why Sheryl and Ranka voices can be hear by Alto during the battle as the voice travel through the earrings (fold communication devices). Brera may be Ranka biological brother (grace mention he want to regain his past in ep 10 and Brera know the same song as Ranka) and may be was seriously wounded during the attack of 117th research fleet by Vajra. Those artificial intelligence rescue him by transfer his thoughts to a cyborgs and control him. That's why Brera can pilot the VF-27 which no humans can withstand the physical stress and have the physical abilities to rescue Ranka from the hydra. Anyway, all the above are just my happy wild guesses. Happy watching and have a nice day. I kinda agree with your opinion about the Galaxy rogue A.I.s, BUT... Kawamori is a nature loving pacifist and I hardly believe the Vajra are interested at all in taking control of Galaxy. They are really defending themselves/reacting to agression... probably from Galaxy (the true villain here). In the end the plot may turn out like another one of Kawamori's pro-ecology works... "Earth Girl Arjuna"... where the villain monsters turned out to be good in the end... Thx, but I'll stick to my Terraforming Vajra theory... Edited July 19, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-25 Messiah Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Kawamori is a nature loving pacifist and I hardly believe the Vajra are interested at all in taking control of Galaxy. You can already feel the vibes that in the end it's going to be about the evil technological cyborg Galaxy versus the good ecofriendly bioplant Frontier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 The Golden Vajra is stronger than Wood, The Mind Ape could bring the Wooden Dragon to submission. When Metal obeyed and Wood was tamed they were at one; When Wood was loving and Metal kind they worked together. One host and one guest with nothing to keep them apart, With the Three in harmony they had a mysterious power. Taoism. Wood = East (Dragon), Metal = West (Tiger). Nothing relevant to Macross Frontier. You can already feel the vibes that in the end it's going to be about the evil technological cyborg Galaxy versus the good ecofriendly bioplant Frontier happy.gif It is obvious the ones most similar to the watchers will play the good guys. Anyway, it is interesting to note that Kawamori stated in an interview that Japan is similar to Frontier's fleet in that they live in a bubble, and that it would be interesting to see them experiencing a cultural shock. FV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 The Vajra and the Galaxy will be stopped by the ultimate super concert! It will have Fire Bomber, Lynn Minmei, Myung, Sheryl, Ranka Lee, and Brerea all performing Aimo. It will be transmitte out into space via Super Dimension crystal enhanced fold communication. Mean while Hikaru, Isamu, Gamlin, Alto are all out in space butting heads over who the best pilot is. Nah, it'll be a super rock ballad that Aimo is just the bridge to. Man I want tickets to that concert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Taoism. Wood = East (Dragon), Metal = West (Tiger). Nothing relevant to Macross Frontier. I know...it was kind of a joke. I was just surprised to come across the word "Vajra" in Journey to the West. If I'd read it a year ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 I don't think the Vajra are the bad guys here. Watching the subs on 15 a few times, I was under the impression they were being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameSt11 Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Well, with ep 15's revelations I wouldn't be surprised if Cathy and Ozma discover Leon's secret and he's forced to kill Cathy and sabotage Ozma's suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucker4meltrans Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 From what we know of previous Macross canonical history, the center of the galaxy seems to be a no fly zone. Every fleet that has headed in that direction seems to be meeting a serious trouble or a grizzly end. Megaroad-1 head towards center and just vanished Macross 7 heading towards center and encountered protodevlin and their varauta army. 117th Research fleet attacked by Vajra. Macross 5 fleet wiped out around or near planet Rax(persumably also near galactic core because of protodevlin involvement). Megaroad-13 finds star system with inhabital planets names system varauta and unlocks and is over taken by the protodevlin. much like the protoculture thousands of years before when the protodevlin formed the supervision army. Macross Galaxy goes from being corporate research expedition to evil cyborg HQ, reason unknown. Macross Frontier encounters Vajra. we now know the evil cyborgs of Galaxy lead the vajra towards the Frontier but from what we saw in episode 15 Frontier would have stumbled into vajra occupied space eventually. so what do we have at the galactic core? vajra, protoculture ruins, protodevlin. the center of the galaxy seems to be filled with left overs of the stellar republic and most of it isn't friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 The reason could be more habitable planets. The core region is a pretty big place. I'm sure the fleets are going out their way to avoid regions of possible Zentradi-Supervision Army fighting. Though it seems the UN hasn't yet made any first contact with the SA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 The reason could be more habitable planets. The core region is a pretty big place. I'm sure the fleets are going out their way to avoid regions of possible Zentradi-Supervision Army fighting. Though it seems the UN hasn't yet made any first contact with the SA. Are there any left...? As for the core being habitable...if Gregory Benford is to be trusted, there's quite a bit of activity there...it would be quite difficult to navigate, and the chances of finding a planet that isn't constantly colliding into other planets would be remote at best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 The reason could be more habitable planets. The core region is a pretty big place. You don't want to live near the center of the galaxy. Unless we're totally throwing science out the window, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 You don't want to live near the center of the galaxy. Unless we're totally throwing science out the window, here. GunBuster did teach us some lessons Can someone confirm this, from the Galaxy AI talking, I somehow catch that most of the Immigrant Fleet are cyborg based except Frontier, which makes the entire plot looks like Sky Net vs Humanity with Vajra replacing the terminators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 You don't want to live near the center of the galaxy. Unless we're totally throwing science out the window, here. Indeed... There's a supermassive black hole at the very center... Near that area the stars are too close, there's lots of heat/radiation and gravitational perturbances... However... Going coreward across the galaxy distances between the stars get shorter... and the probable amount of planets is bigger... Thus the chances of finding planets suited for life increases... not at the center, but nearby... I'm convinced that if there's any Protoculture left they must be hiding near the center... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulendil Ang Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Indeed... There's a supermassive black hole at the very center... Near that area the stars are too close, there's lots of heat/radiation and gravitational perturbances... However... Going coreward across the galaxy distances between the stars get shorter... and the probable amount of planets is bigger... Thus the chances of finding planets suited for life increases... not at the center, but nearby... I'm convinced that if there's any Protoculture left they must be hiding near the center... Yeah, besides, the stars in the galactic centre is so dense it feels like traveling in the maze. No a place where you want to fold freely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 That's one thing I like about Macross - that it takes "galaxy" to be something very big. Lots of "space" sci-fi dramas make me think the galaxy is really small - they keep wisking around the universe, but indeed our galaxy is huge, and Macross Frontier does a good job with this. VFTF1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Grace is not only a rogue AI remnant of Sharon Apple, she's also the final Cylon and it seems part of the Patroits. /thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 With Frontier their backs on the wall with Vajra and Galaxy something tells me the 33rd Marines will be back to save the day. Especially if Ohgathwai is old friends with Richard Bilrer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 With Frontier their backs on the wall with Vajra and Galaxy something tells me the 33rd Marines will be back to save the day. Especially if Ohgathwai is old friends with Richard Bilrer. ha! i wouldn't mind that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 My theory is the Vajra are bio weapons bred through genetic cloning of the AFOS(Birdman). Cave drawings in episode 8 seem to show some connection with the Vajra and the AFOS. Vajra came out of control so they clone Sara Nome to attempt to control them like she controlled the birdman long ago. Sheryl was the product of the cloning but it seems her songs do not have any apparent effect on the Vajra so they just orchestrate her rise to stardom so they can study her more with Grace watching over her. Would be a blow to Sheryl if her popularity was made up right? Ranka on the other hand seems to have a true connection to the Vajra and coincidentally Dr. Mao as Ozma pu it; "Is it fate that you have the role of Dr. Mao?" Perhaps Ranka is the one with pure Mayan blood? The little green thing is a baby Vajra I tell ya! You were right!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Did someone mention that Grace is part Patroid? No wonder they rebelled, those poor patroid got no love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 If the Mao Nome connection is true then I can postulate why Ranka and Sheryl have crystals. When Sara Nome sang it had two effects. One on lifeforms stimulating growth and vitality and the second making the rocks on Mayan island fly. The rocks on Mayan island and Vajra crystals have similar properties of resonating with those of priestess blood. Ranka has Vajra organisms within her that has crystals thus her emotions and singing has a dual effect on the organism and crystals. Sheryl on the otherhand only has earring crystals that resonate with her emotions and song. Ranka's stomach glows while Sheryl's earing twinkles. That is why Ranka has the X-factor that Galaxy Anonymous is looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 When Sara Nome sang it had two effects. One on lifeforms stimulating growth and vitality and the second making the rocks on Mayan island fly. No, the Aphos did that in reaction to her singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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