Macross Frontier Plot Theories...

[J A Dare]

So how long does everyone think it will be before we get a weird dream-sequence/clip-show episode...?

Well, I won't mind...as long as Ranka or Sheryl (or both) dream...say...of a unicorn.

There's still alot of questions out there, but one thing I'm absolutely sure of:

From the intro, there is a reason why Ranka and Sheryl are flying together through space butt naked!

[Kronnang Dunn]

The preview of episode 12 showed the image of a head similar to Quamzin Kravshera's...

Now... I believe it could be:

a) Quamzin's son.

b) Quamzin himself.

c) Quamzin's head in life support (just like Boddole Zer in DYRL).

Whaddya think?

Edited June 23, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Gubaba]

I doubt it's Kamjin himself (he got blown up pretty good), nor do I think he got much past first base with Laplamiz, so I doubt it's his son.

It could be a clone, or it could just be a visual echo.

I guess we'll know on Thursday, won't we?

[stray]

I doubt it's Kamjin himself (he got blown up pretty good), nor do I think he got much past first base with Laplamiz, so I doubt it's his son.

It could be a clone, or it could just be a visual echo.

I guess we'll know on Thursday, won't we?

I think they got the more romantic ending of SDFM... holding hands as it faded to white.

[Gubaba]

I think they got the more romantic ending of SDFM... holding hands as it faded to white.

THAT'S right...thanks for the refresher.

So their hands get disintegrated, yet somehow his head bounces away, falls God knows how many meters to ground, and is somehow okay enough to put in a glass jar...? I doubt it.

[VFTF1]

But the dude in that picture IS Kamjin.

Clone.

It's the only explanation.

VFTF1

[Kronnang Dunn]

I think they got the more romantic ending of SDFM... holding hands as it faded to white.

And they screamed each other's name in the end too (at the same time)...

Quamzin: LAP LAMIIIIZ!!!!......*

Lap Lamiz: QUAAAAMZIIIIN!!!!......*

Edited June 24, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Selic]

And they screamed each other's name in the end too (at the same time)...

Quamzin: LAP LAMIIIIZ!!!!......*

Lap Lamiz: QUAAAAMZIIIIN!!!!......*

Well, the Zents did 'breed' via cloning, so probably a clone from the same stock.

[jasgripen]

The Vajra are anti-UN forces...check this out...the octos mecha in macross zero transform like the red type vajra...the big machine in the VFX-2 game that is 4 legged is similar to the octos and red vajra,is also anti-un property....In macross 0 dr. hassford got a blood sample from sarah nome, the anti-un forces have kept the existing data from dr. hassfords studies of the mayan island and the birdhuman, those who survived space war I have new anti-un followers aboard macross galaxy...maybe through genetic manipulation and experiments, they developed sheryl nome as a clone of sarah to sing the song of destruction...the vajra are the smaller or production versions of the birdhuman. since the vajra are biomechanical. how they got the data to produce the vajra is probably because someone working with aries is a double agent aboard the Asuka in macross zero stole the data with the blood dripping from the birdhuman...he/she survives space war I also. sheryl must be the puppet of the anti-un and uses her celebrity image as a front because in the end, after destroying macross frontier, the anti-un who i think is composed of zentran, meltrans, humans and even zolans will strike at the many different fleets scattered across the galaxy to take over the NUNS.

[Gubaba]

The Vajra are anti-UN forces...check this out...the octos mecha in macross zero transform like the red type vajra...the big machine in the VFX-2 game that is 4 legged is similar to the octos and red vajra,is also anti-un property....In macross 0 dr. hassford got a blood sample from sarah nome, the anti-un forces have kept the existing data from dr. hassfords studies of the mayan island and the birdhuman, those who survived space war I have new anti-un followers aboard macross galaxy...maybe through genetic manipulation and experiments, they developed sheryl nome as a clone of sarah to sing the song of destruction...the vajra are the smaller or production versions of the birdhuman. since the vajra are biomechanical. how they got the data to produce the vajra is probably because someone working with aries is a double agent aboard the Asuka in macross zero stole the data with the blood dripping from the birdhuman...he/she survives space war I also. sheryl must be the puppet of the anti-un and uses her celebrity image as a front because in the end, after destroying macross frontier, the anti-un who i think is composed of zentran, meltrans, humans and even zolans will strike at the many different fleets scattered across the galaxy to take over the NUNS.

Then luckily, the Megaroad-01 will reappear, Minmay will sing "Try Again" with Pasero and Enika on back-up vocals. But still the Anti-UN will overpower them, until finally, a rift into an alternate universe opens, and then Ishtar comes out, sings her emulator song and defeats the bad guys!

[Kronnang Dunn]

The Vajra are anti-UN forces...check this out...the octos mecha in macross zero transform like the red type vajra...the big machine in the VFX-2 game that is 4 legged is similar to the octos and red vajra,is also anti-un property....In macross 0 dr. hassford got a blood sample from sarah nome, the anti-un forces have kept the existing data from dr. hassfords studies of the mayan island and the birdhuman, those who survived space war I have new anti-un followers aboard macross galaxy...maybe through genetic manipulation and experiments, they developed sheryl nome as a clone of sarah to sing the song of destruction...the vajra are the smaller or production versions of the birdhuman. since the vajra are biomechanical. how they got the data to produce the vajra is probably because someone working with aries is a double agent aboard the Asuka in macross zero stole the data with the blood dripping from the birdhuman...he/she survives space war I also. sheryl must be the puppet of the anti-un and uses her celebrity image as a front because in the end, after destroying macross frontier, the anti-un who i think is composed of zentran, meltrans, humans and even zolans will strike at the many different fleets scattered across the galaxy to take over the NUNS.

I like this a lot...

[VFTF1]

I would not be a big fan of an "anti-UN" revival because the Anti-UN were a very very "time" based group; who merged together and fought for the believable and understandable goal of maintaining the soveriegnty and independence of smaller states for fear of being ruled by a hegemonic global dictatorship.

We have STILL not really seen anything that suggests that military dictatorship did not replace democratic representative government following the crash landing of ASS-1. In Macross Zero, we are given a glimpse of the UN assembly discussing the event; so we might infer that free governments decided to come together and create a world government with military and other powers - but we don't really know. There is still a mayor - of Macross City no less! - and he doesn't ever appear to be a military stooge; but then again we do learn that on the SDF-1, the civilians are clearly controlled by the military, as food rationing is the means of the distribution of goods and services, and Minmey has to convince her parents to do what they would have done under more natural circumstances - open their restaurant back...Of course all of this was also the writers being a bit more reflective of the prevelent thinking regarding Political Economy in the later 1970s and early 1980s; when Keynesian economics and a view of the "complexity" of industrial society mandated central planning and regulation as the most logical modes of economic organization.

In Macross: Frontier, we see a healthy departure from this kind of thinking, and yet another nod to the times (when even the military is hiring private contractors and no longer conscripts people, but rather tries to recruit them) - and hence we have the incompetent and beauracratic centrally managed NUNS, and the far more flexible and real-time reactive voluntary SMS - we also have political leaders who are not so noble and concerned with the public good as - say - Global was (although to be fair, SDF TV had its' share of vile politicians as well; and the scene where Misa and Gloval give their report is a great bit of political theater which shows the paradoxes and dangers of handing your government over to an effectual military dictatorship - even in light of alien attack [aka "radical/extreme" circumstances].

But my point here is that I see NO POINT in the BEING an Anti-UN in the Macross: Frontier time line.

If anything, the Anti-UN achieved its' goals even in SDF TV - after all, remember the Ontario Autonomous Region? Bet that wouldn't even exist if not for the Unification Wars - clearly the UN Government got the message: don't attempt to centralize all power in Alaska over the entire planet - respect local autonomy, the desires of diverse peoples to govern themselves differently - ergo we see that under the UN, there are "autonomousregional governments" - perhaps indicative that the Wars were brought to an end via a compromise, whereby a sort of global federalism was adopted?

With the inception of space colonization - the rational for an Anti-UN is even slimmer - because each space colony is in a very real sense an autonomous "city" unto itself. Sheryl marvels at the Frontier's reliance on "green" energy - noting that Galaxy uses chemicals and what not. This is indicative of diversity within the fleet - diversity in political and economic and scientific methods used - and therefore diversity in government.

So why would there be a militantly active anti-UN movement? People are clearly free to move from fleet to fleet - so if someone doesn't like one fleet, they just move to another one. While we (still) don't see any direct political activity, the Frontier has a President in civilian clothing ruling it; ergo we can presume he was elected?

While there might be terrorist cells fighting for some particular interest or as a result of some particular grievence; I don't really see any rationale for an Anti-UN entity that allies certain fleets against...well against what? Against the UN government on Earth?

That would be silly. If anything - the UN government on Earth doesn't really have much more power that it did - it can't run things on Frontier; or on Galaxy. Perhaps there is some "uber council" - but it would likely only deal with inter-fleet issues - and any attempt to centralize power in such a council would fail - without the need for a war: after all - couldn't one fleet that didn't like another fleet just...you know...Fold "far away" so they wouldn't have to see eachother?

The notion that "bad guys" are these mindless drones that drink blood for dinner and attack because that's the MO of "eeeviiill!!" is a bit silly - and so why would an Anti-UN survive just to build Vajra and send them against the colony fleets? Because they are EEEVVVILLL?

I think this underestimates the validity of the Anti-UN cause: government always uses crises to gain power, promising security but delivering only tyranny. It's not wonder than in light of ASS-1 crashing, the UN and its' immediate backers tried to sieze total power over Earth; and it's no wonder that in a panic they made their bid in a radical way, triggering an equally radical reaction (the formation of the Anti-UN and the inception of the Unification Wars).

It is also no wonder that the result of the War was not a victory for the UN, but rather a compromise allowing for political autonomy in certain regions, and giving the UN control over matters directly pertaining to the alien threat. This compromise - to my mind - saved the UN, and extinguished the potential grievences of the anti-UN.

In short: there is no more Anti-UN because there is no reason for one - ergo - they are not the villain here. IF they are - I will be disappointed in the story telling of Macross for the first time, and it will ruin an otherwise very good series.

Speaking of which - don't you guys think that it is more likely that the Vajra are indeed the creation of the UN "gone wrong?" - The Protoculture also spread through the galaxy, much like the colonies of the UN, and also tried to preserve their culture - but also ended up creating the EVIL and sparking wars which ultimately destroyed their civilization.

Recall the debate between Hikaru, Gloval, and the Dr. in "Puppets of the Devil" (that would make a great Spinal Tap song) - about whether war was inherent in our nature, and in effect - it was our destiny to follow in the tragic footsteps of the Protoculture. If anything - I see that happening in Frontier; where humanity has basically become a Second Protoculture Stellar Republic - and it to is on the brink of destroying itself.

VFTF1

[d3v]

Edit: D'oh! Double post sorry!

I agree... uh, I mean with your other post.

By the time of the Frontier, we're seeing even greater autonomy than ever. While the MAcross 7 fleet had a mayor in 2045, by 2059 the Frontier fleet has their own autonomous government with its own president.

Edited June 25, 2008 by d3v

[Kronnang Dunn]

In short: there is no more Anti-UN because there is no reason for one - ergo - they are not the villain here. IF they are - I will be disappointed in the story telling of Macross for the first time, and it will ruin an otherwise very good series.

I strongly recommend u visit the Macross Compendium site and take a look at the Official Macross Chronology... Revolt after revolt after revolt before the events of Frontier and after the end of Space War I... Either from Zentradi malcontents, earthlings or colonists. If the faction controlling the VF-27/Brera/Grace and unleashing the Vajra is not Anti-UNG/NUNG then what? Protoculture?

I agree... uh, I mean with your other post.

By the time of the Frontier, we're seeing even greater autonomy than ever. While the MAcross 7 fleet had a mayor in 2045, by 2059 the Frontier fleet has their own autonomous government with its own president.

Howard Glass is not only the executive director of the Macross Frontier Colony, but also the President of the whole NUN... This information is in the Character section of the Official Site...

Edited June 25, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[d3v]

I strongly recommend u visit the Macross Compendium site and take a look at the Official Macross Chronology... Revolt after revolt after revolt before the events of Frontier and after the end of Space War I... Either from Zentradi malcontents, earthlings or colonists. If the faction controlling the VF-27/Brera/Grace and unleashing the Vajra is not Anti-UNG/NUNG then what? Protoculture?

Then their simply another rebel faction. Anti-UN as a proper noun refers specifically to a group of nations during the first decade of the 21st Century that was fighting for a specific goal applicable during that time.

Howard Glass is not only the executive director of the Macross Frontier Colony, but also the President of the whole NUN... This information is in the Character section of the Official Site...

I stand corrected, although I should point out that he seems to act more as if he were the president of Frontier and not the NUN.

[Garou Kuroryuu]

Howard Glass is not only the executive director of the Macross Frontier Colony, but also the President of the whole NUN... This information is in the Character section of the Official Site...

So, unless NUN is a separate body from UNG, I don't think it makes sense for the NUN's president to be on board ONE of the colonization fleets, instead of on a planet, a "fixed" location.

At least for me, that doesn't.

So that little piece of info (Glass being NUN's president) definitely tells me that there's been some sort of secession among the original UNG, probably triggered by the events in VF-X2.

[d3v]

So, unless NUN is a separate body from UNG, I don't think it makes sense for the NUN's president to be on board ONE of the colonization fleets, instead of on a planet, a "fixed" location.

At least for me, that doesn't.

So that little piece of info (Glass being NUN's president) definitely tells me that there's been some sort of secession among the original UNG, probably triggered by the events in VF-X2.

Actually, having the president aboard a colony ship could possible be one result of the changeover from the UNG to New UNG.

[dreamweaver13]

I stand corrected, although I should point out that he seems to act more as if he were the president of Frontier and not the NUN.

does the official site describe him as the president for the entire NUNS (in earth and all fleets), or just the NUNS for the Frontier?

Edited June 26, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Gubaba]

does the official site describe him as the president for the entire NUNS (in earth and all fleets), or just the NUNS for the Frontier?

Here's your answer:

新統合政府大統領。

It says he's President (大統領) of the New United Government (新統合政府). There's nothing about Frontier at all. So yeah, I guess the whole she-bang is his.

[dreamweaver13]

Here's your answer:

It says he's President (大統領) of the New United Government (新統合政府). There's nothing about Frontier at all. So yeah, I guess the whole she-bang is his.

wow. will ya look at that. quite a powerful person you have on this fleet. Frontier must be absolutely important in the whole scheme of things.

a few things:

1. so maybe it is possible that only the Frontier has SMS, as opposed to other fleets. hey, if the president of the whole frickin NUNS is onboard, there must be a special unit assigned to protect his fleet. not to mention, a separate unit that's outside the control of the rest of NUNS (and another possible military insurrection). someone asked this a million posts ago.

2. is it possible other fleets still have "mayors" as opposed to presidents?

3. it's quite weird to have the commander of NUNS in any place other than the Macross SDF-1.

4. on the other hand, most likely Glass is just the civilian commander-in-chief of the NUNS, much like the president of a country. someone else is still the supreme military commander of NUNS.

[Gubaba]

wow. will ya look at that. quite a powerful person you have on this fleet. Frontier must be absolutely important in the whole scheme of things.

a few things:

1. so maybe it is possible that only the Frontier has SMS, as opposed to other fleets. hey, if the president of the whole frickin NUNS is onboard, there must be a special unit assigned to protect his fleet. not to mention, a separate unit that's outside the control of the rest of NUNS (and another possible military insurrection). someone asked this a million posts ago.

2. is it possible other fleets still have "mayors" as opposed to presidents?

3. it's quite weird to have the commander of NUNS in any place other than the Macross SDF-1.

4. on the other hand, most likely Glass is just the civilian commander-in-chief of the NUNS, much like the president of a country. someone else is still the supreme military commander of NUNS.

He isn't the President of NUNS, he's the President of the New United Government. Possibly that means he's the Commander-in-Chief of NUNS (and NUNA and NUNN and NUNAF and NUNCG...), but who knows?

1. I asked it...and yeah, they might be the only one...

2. If they find Galaxy in one piece, we may get an answer to that.

3. The Commander of NUNS may well be there, but...maybe they never rebuilt it after the Sharon Apple Incident...? It IS a magnet for crazies, after all...

4. Exactly.

[dreamweaver13]

He isn't the President of NUNS, he's the President of the New United Government. Possibly that means he's the Commander-in-Chief of NUNS (and NUNA and NUNN and NUNAF and NUNCG...), but who knows?

1. I asked it...and yeah, they might be the only one...

2. If they find Galaxy in one piece, we may get an answer to that.

3. The Commander of NUNS may well be there, but...maybe they never rebuilt it after the Sharon Apple Incident...? It IS a magnet for crazies, after all...

4. Exactly.

got it. should have read that more carefully.

and now time for a newbie question...not here, of course.

[d3v]

He isn't the President of NUNS, he's the President of the New United Government. Possibly that means he's the Commander-in-Chief of NUNS (and NUNA and NUNN and NUNAF and NUNCG...), but who knows?

Does the New UNG even have an Army, Navy, Air Force? From what we've seen, the Spacy seems to cover most of the traditional roles of the military (with the Marines actng as their ground forces).

As for Coast Guard, the closest we've seen to it would be the planetary Patrols (such as the Zolan Patrol seen in Dynamite 7).

Edited June 26, 2008 by d3v

[Mr March]

The UN Spacy is most likely the largest military branch because of all the colony fleets, but there are mentions made of different branches. In SDF Macross, we see army units during the annihilation of Earth and in Macross Frontier mention is made of Army forces inside Island 1 (and we see them operating Mobile Guns). The official literature also makes mention of different branches within the UN Forces. You can find many within the "U" section of the Glossary at the Macross Compendium

I've also made a couple entries for my Macropedia that lists the various branches and describes the NUAC from Macross Frontier:

UN Forces (United Nations Forces)

The title for the collective branches of the United Nations armed forces, including the UNAF (U.N. Air Force), UNN (U.N. Navy), UNS (U.N. Spacy), UNSAF (U.N. Spacy Air Force) and the UNSM (U.N. Spacy Marines).

NUAC (New Unified Army Command)

The title that refers to the command structure for the New United Nations Spacy and other military sections. The New United Nations armed forces are under the administration of the NUAC which reports directly to the New United Nations Frontier Presidency.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Mr March

[Duke Togo]

Episode 12 says: You're all wrong!

[d3v]

Episode 12 says: You're all wrong!

Do enlighten us oh Duke (as I don't want to see the episode itselg until there are subs).

Edited June 26, 2008 by d3v

[Duke Togo]

Do enlighten us oh Duke (as I don't want to see the episode itselg until there are subs).

The wreckage of the SDF-1 appears in this episode... on another planet.

[Ork_dreadnought]

The wreckage of the SDF-1 appears in this episode... on another planet.

Whhhhhaaattt?! How? Why?, WTF!?

<Falls over in cardiac arrest>

Oh, all bets are off now! This is beyond epic.

Perhaps that's why NUNS exists..........

Edited June 26, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[Shun]

The wreckage of the SDF-1 appears in this episode... on another planet.

i thought that's the M-Galaxy? still not yet watched ep 12 though i read it somewhere before

[Ork_dreadnought]

i thought that's the M-Galaxy? still not yet watched ep 12 though i read it somewhere before

Well, I've seen the screenshot of it, and I'm fairly sure it is the Macross. Galaxy would most likely be based around a New Macross class, like Frontier. The Battle section of those ships are radically in appearence to what episode 12 shows us. The original Macross is unmistakable for a New Macross. Unless someone went to the trouble of creating a replica (doubtful), it is the real deal. The only question is how it got there? Old SDF1 is probably obsolete as combat vessel, so it was probably a figurehead for a fleet. But what could wake that giant? What would cause humanity to send its ark into battle again?

I can't wait to find out.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[Xeros]

For my is a ship left there by the supervision army more than the original macross, we don't know with certainty if the Macross it is the onlyone of his class or several more were constructed originally

Edited June 26, 2008 by Xeros

[Zinjo]

Well, I've seen the screenshot of it, and I'm fairly sure it is the Macross. Galaxy would most likely be based around a New Macross class, like Frontier. The Battle section of those ships are radically in appearence to what episode 12 shows us. The original Macross is unmistakable for a New Macross. Unless someone went to the trouble of creating a replica (doubtful), it is the real deal. The only question is how it got there? Old SDF1 is probably obsolete as combat vessel, so it was probably a figurehead for a fleet. But what could wake that giant? What would cause humanity to send its ark into battle again?

I can't wait to find out.

Well it has been floated out there that it could be a giant movie prop from DYRL or from the Drama series mentioned. It could just as well be a Megalord class SDF left over from an early colonization fleet. We probably won't know unit the next episode if it is indeed the real iconic SDF-1 Macross.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Zinjo

[d3v]

The wreckage of the SDF-1 appears in this episode... on another planet.

Wait, what does that have to do with our little discussion of UN military organization?

[dreamweaver13]

The wreckage of the SDF-1 appears in this episode... on another planet.

OMG!! OMG!! OMFG!!!

I gotta see this episode now!!! (brain has overloaded) can't. wait. for download. must watch from a video site. office lunch break, can't you come faster??!

[dreamweaver13]

Wait, what does that have to do with our little discussion of UN military organization?

sadly, a statement as big as

the Macross being on another planet

is an effective way of replying to any possible topic.

for example:

member 1: so when the alto chose to pick Sheryl's bday present, does that mean that he effectively chose sheryl over ranka?

member 2: no, that's definitely wrong because...

the motherf***kin macross is on another frickin planet!!

member 1: WTF!!! OMG!!! you're so right!!!!

can't be helped.