Macross Frontier and Fansubs

[Freelancer]

Well I have decided to go with [Lunar] Macross Frontier - [1280x720][x264] MKVs although they are a little more spammier that Chihiro when there is a fight and a song in backround (Chihiro doesn't even translate them but maybe its better so i can focus on a fight) .........anyway I miss Gattai and hope they will return on scene some day again ....I am still keeping their 8 episode

[magnuskn]

I really liked the work from Gattai. Since they are not subbing anymore, I´ve gone with the modified GG subs... most of the time they do a very good job.

[Final Vegeta]

I have to disagree with one thing, though...I don't mind the use of "-san," "-chan," "-kun," "-sama" and the like if the show is set in Japan. I wouldn't mind, for example, if they used the honorifics in the parts of Escaflowne set on earth. Once they get to Gaia, though, they should be dropped.

Actually, they use honorifics even in Gaia

(or better, Hitomi understands Gaian as Japanese)

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

Don't use them at all, I say. They have their place in japanese, but not in english. The translator should take into account whatever nuances they add in the original sentence and form up his translation based on that. Doing otherwise is a cheap cop-out in my opinion.

You'd never hear it in a dub, because noone actually speaks like that and it'd sound utterly stupid. You can still hear whatever honorics being used when you listen to the original japanese dialouge while reading the subs, so you're not exactly missing out. Ah well just my take on it...

[wolfx]

Watched the Lunar sub and can't help but notice glaring mistakes like "Dimension Eater" translated as "Remation Eater" despite it showing on Grace's HUD as Dimension Eater even if it doesn't sound so clear in Japanese Engrish. Also Alto referring to Brera's valk as "That bird".

[HG Blows]

Eh, is AiA still fansubbing MF? I haven't seen a release from them since ep 10...

[azrael]

Eh, is AiA still fansubbing MF? I haven't seen a release from them since ep 10...

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...st&p=613733

Reading seems to be lost on people these days...

[Gubaba]

Watched the Lunar sub and can't help but notice glaring mistakes like "Dimension Eater" translated as "Remation Eater" despite it showing on Grace's HUD as Dimension Eater even if it doesn't sound so clear in Japanese Engrish. Also Alto referring to Brera's valk as "That bird".

Well...it's better than "Brief-25."

And one of the MacZero fansubs, which kept translating "Hiyoko" literally as "chick" (like, a baby chicken) instead of the way it was used, as greenhorn, newbie, rookie, etc.

"I'll bring them both back...the VF-Zero...and those chicks!"

Of course you will, Roy...we never doubted you on THAT score...

[UN Spacy]

Watched the Lunar sub and can't help but notice glaring mistakes like "Dimension Eater" translated as "Remation Eater" despite it showing on Grace's HUD as Dimension Eater even if it doesn't sound so clear in Japanese Engrish. Also Alto referring to Brera's valk as "That bird".

Yeah. Lunar's been slipping just a tad bit.

Episode 12 - Reaction warheads. LOL.

Episode 13 - Creamation beaker. LOL.

I've been more impressed by Kei's stuff. Aside from all the F-bombs their work is pretty good.

[Freelancer]

Well as I said a few posts above i have decided to go with Lunar MKVs and so far I am satisfied with quality of the videos but I must admit that u are right.....they do miss couple of translations and keep on using them ......

PS: I am still up for the idea that some1 mentioned to spamm Dattebayo to start subbing macross i have dynamic IP so any1 can provide me with mail and maybe a suggested email text i would try to execute it

Edited July 8, 2008 by Freelancer

[Graham]

Kei's sub of 13 impressed me. Lunar's glaring "Remation Eater" error was so funny.

WTF is a Remation Eater!!!!

Graham

[Gubaba]

Kei's sub of 13 impressed me. Lunar's glaring "Remation Eater" error was so funny.

WTF is a Remation Eater!!!!

Graham

Duh. Someone that eats remations. Is this, like, a trick question or something...?

[creamyhorror]

I really liked the work from Gattai. Since they are not subbing anymore, I´ve gone with the modified GG subs... most of the time they do a very good job.

There's really not much reason to get the modified-GG subs. We (gg) release at 1280x720 now (since the show switched at ep 11), encoded from the original digital source (a 'transport stream') - a single encode step from the source. The "modified" and "foganime" versions, on the other hand, are almost certainly twice-encoded versions of the original, i.e. one more encode step than ours. A second encode step only reduces quality irreversibly, and the only thing you gain is...fancy karaoke. Any slight improvement from the slightly higher resolution is doubtable, since Frontier was clearly not made at 1080p resolution, but it's completely negated by the terrible video filtering they apply (over-warpsharping, resulting in distortions of shapes.) Frontier was not made at 1080p, but it's been upscaled to and broadcast at that resolution - thus, most reputable encoders resize it to 720p for release. The extra 'resolution' is basically wasted bytes.

edit: Screenshot comparison: http://www.itsnotlupus.net/macf/ - check out the loss in subtle details. If you were downloading the modified/foganime versions for higher video quality, you're making a mistake.

Kei is Chihiro, actually (translator split off). They rely on reasonably accurate Chinese subs which I refer to as well, but we always wait for our video capturer to obtain the Closed Captions in Japanese for us so that we can be absolutely sure about our translation (and we spend some time in the edit/quality checking phase). Hence they have things like "Cliff Spark" instead of "Griffith Park". Video encode-wise, ours are certainly better since Kei/Chihiro doesn't have access to transport streams - they're a purely speedsub group, "translate --> timing" being their motto.

We used to provide transport streams along with Closed Captions to Lunar as well, but due to some issues, we stopped at ep 11 or thereabouts, which may explain any fall in their translation quality. I can assure you with some confidence that we have virtually no outright translation errors, with the sole exception of maybe a few small ones in ep 9 (for which we couldn't get closed captions due to a messup).

Edited July 9, 2008 by creamyhorror

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Totally appreciate all subbers who contribute to subbing Macross Frontier, you guys rule.

I have a couple of questions though, as i'm ready to download.

So whats going to happen after the series is done? Will we start seeing all of it thrown onto one or three dvds (with subs)?

Would each different subber company release their own rendition on dvds?

How many more episodes have we left btw?

Also who is regarded as the best subber compared to the rest? I'm sure all are good but for accuracy instead of pretty?

Cheers.

Edited July 9, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[creamyhorror]

Not really any specific examples that I kept track of. Just sometimes, I notice a line that seems hyper-literal, and no longer sounds like the character. I know it's hard to make difficult Japanese into readable English AND keep in character while doing so...for an example of THAT, check my "Nyan Fro" liner notes translation. If you compare it to the Japanese, I made Carmen sound a little ditzier in English, because I think that was the effect they were going for, but Elmo had all the difficult lines, and sometimes he sounds too stiff and...un-Elmo-like.

If you happen to watch our subs, do give feedback then (since I don't know if you're referring to ours). Also, link to your Nyan Fro translation?

[Duke Togo]

Unless we get a fansubber come out of nowhere and just blow us all away, I've dumped everything in favor of Shinsen. Cleared out quite a few GB in the process.

[Gubaba]

If you happen to watch our subs, do give feedback then (since I don't know if you're referring to ours). Also, link to your Nyan Fro translation?

Well...my computer REALLY doesn't like h.264, so it's unlikely that I'll get to see your subs anytime soon...sorry. I will go out on a limb, though, and say that the definitive Macross F subs won't start coming out until the series is finished, or at least after the DVDs begin to come out.

And Nyan Fro is here. I finally threw up my hands and sent it to one of my Japanese friends to have her check it for any obvious mistakes, but she's been busy so it's taking a while.

[LadyLuck®]

Kei's sub of 13 impressed me. Lunar's glaring "Remation Eater" error was so funny.

WTF is a Remation Eater!!!!

Graham

Haha just saw that too that's why I bother donloading another, Kei on the other hand is quite good on translation. They even manage to translate it as what the japanese seiyuu just said. But some of the english translation is a bit too "word-for-word"

for example on the scene grace gave the medicine/poison to Sheryl:

Grace said (as translated by Kei) "here eat it" although its acceptible because thats what the seiyuu I think really said, but I think personally the proper address should be "here take it". It sounds more appropriate

hence from what I've said, over-all Kei's Subbing is the most accurate of all, personally, just some minor grammar tweeks and it will be a lot better.

[grss1982]

Unless we get a fansubber come out of nowhere and just blow us all away, I've dumped everything in favor of Shinsen. Cleared out quite a few GB in the process.

No offense to Shinsen, but that's going to be a LONG wait.

[Mr March]

It might be a longer wait, but ultimately Shinsen is who I've been turning to for the most accurate facts. They produced subtitles with the more accurate definitions like Anti-Vajra ESA munitions and what not. Whenever I build stuff for my website, I try to find as much Shinsen material as possible. Glad to hear they're still working on Frontier.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Mr March

[creamyhorror]

Well...my computer REALLY doesn't like h.264, so it's unlikely that I'll get to see your subs anytime soon...sorry. I will go out on a limb, though, and say that the definitive Macross F subs won't start coming out until the series is finished, or at least after the DVDs begin to come out.

And Nyan Fro is here. I finally threw up my hands and sent it to one of my Japanese friends to have her check it for any obvious mistakes, but she's been busy so it's taking a while.

Oh, I see. Computers less than 5 or so years old should be able to play H.264, even high-definition (unless the CPU's a budget model maybe), so yours might actually be a codec problem. I can point you to assistance if you happen to be interested. With regard to "definitive subs", I'm not sure what you're referring to, since fansubbers generally don't re-translate series that have finished airing and are completely subbed. Or are you referring to DVD subtitles (I don't think most shows come with Japanese subtitles)?

I see you imparted quite a bit of personality to Elmo and Carmen. I think it's certainly suitable for Elmo, and subbers should probably render him that way in subs. Ranka, Sheryl, Alto, and the rest are a bit harder to distinguish in dialog style since they basically use typical adolescent patterns. Also, if you still aren't clear about "The owner knew why the sales jumped so high so quickly, but her employment became an issue with his rules.", I think it should be "Apparently, the owner, hearing that business had shot up, decreed that she would be used [for the CM] instead."

edit: translation changed slightly

Edited July 9, 2008 by creamyhorror

[MisaForever]

Unless we get a fansubber come out of nowhere and just blow us all away, I've dumped everything in favor of Shinsen. Cleared out quite a few GB in the process.

It's about time you said something I agree with. It's been awhile!

[Duke Togo]

Oh, i'll download a sub every week just to get the story, but as far as what I keep, its Shinsen. They are up to episode 11, last I checked. Wonder if 12 is out yet...

[magnuskn]

There's really not much reason to get the modified-GG subs. We (gg) release at 1280x720 now (since the show switched at ep 11), encoded from the original digital source (a 'transport stream') - a single encode step from the source. The "modified" and "foganime" versions, on the other hand, are almost certainly twice-encoded versions of the original, i.e. one more encode step than ours. A second encode step only reduces quality irreversibly, and the only thing you gain is...fancy karaoke. Any slight improvement from the slightly higher resolution is doubtable, since Frontier was clearly not made at 1080p resolution, but it's completely negated by the terrible video filtering they apply (over-warpsharping, resulting in distortions of shapes.) Frontier was not made at 1080p, but it's been upscaled to and broadcast at that resolution - thus, most reputable encoders resize it to 720p for release. The extra 'resolution' is basically wasted bytes.

edit: Screenshot comparison: http://www.itsnotlupus.net/macf/ - check out the loss in subtle details. If you were downloading the modified/foganime versions for higher video quality, you're making a mistake.

Kei is Chihiro, actually (translator split off). They rely on reasonably accurate Chinese subs which I refer to as well, but we always wait for our video capturer to obtain the Closed Captions in Japanese for us so that we can be absolutely sure about our translation (and we spend some time in the edit/quality checking phase). Hence they have things like "Cliff Spark" instead of "Griffith Park". Video encode-wise, ours are certainly better since Kei/Chihiro doesn't have access to transport streams - they're a purely speedsub group, "translate --> timing" being their motto.

We used to provide transport streams along with Closed Captions to Lunar as well, but due to some issues, we stopped at ep 11 or thereabouts, which may explain any fall in their translation quality. I can assure you with some confidence that we have virtually no outright translation errors, with the sole exception of maybe a few small ones in ep 9 (for which we couldn't get closed captions due to a messup).

I appreciate the reply. I´ll compare the next release ( episode 14 should be a good sample, seeing how we´ll probably get lots of flashy space combat ), to see if the video quality really is equal. As I download the Spanish subs, too, for a friend in South America, the difference between their resolution ( 848x480 ) and the modified GGs ( 1440x1080) is of course *huge*. I went with the idea that having a higher resolution is always better, so I´ll check out the two different gg releases this weekend. Though I must say, I dig that fancy karaoke.

As for your translations, they are the ones which capture the "voice" of the characters best, as far as I am concerned. So, kudos for that, too!

Edited July 9, 2008 by magnuskn

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Thanks guys i'll keep this in mind when i start down'n. Cheers Duke.

[Gubaba]

Oh, I see. Computers less than 5 or so years old should be able to play H.264, even high-definition (unless the CPU's a budget model maybe), so yours might actually be a codec problem. I can point you to assistance if you happen to be interested. With regard to "definitive subs", I'm not sure what you're referring to, since fansubbers generally don't re-translate series that have finished airing and are completely subbed. Or are you referring to DVD subtitles (I don't think most shows come with Japanese subtitles)?

I've been through the Codec problem, and the big problem is that I have a Mac 10.2.8 and all the codecs are for 10.3 or above. I'll probably get a new computer soon, so it shouldn't be a problem for long.

And this is the first new series I've watched fansubbed, so I don't completely know how it works...I just assumed that once the DVDs start coming out, some new group will jump on the bandwagon...I may be wrong about that, though.

I see you imparted quite a bit of personality to Elmo and Carmen. I think it's certainly suitable for Elmo, and subbers should probably render him that way in subs. Ranka, Sheryl, Alto, and the rest are a bit harder to distinguish in dialog style since they basically use typical adolescent patterns. Also, if you still aren't clear about "The owner knew why the sales jumped so high so quickly, but her employment became an issue with his rules.", I think it should be "Apparently, the owner, hearing that business had shot up, decreed that she would be used [for the CM] instead."

edit: translation changed slightly

Most of the time with Elmo I felt like I was just nodding my head and trying to follow what he was saying. Carmen was much easier, and I think more successful. I certainly see what you mean about Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl's speech patterns...there's not a whole lot of quirkiness in the main characters, is there?

And thanks for the translation help! It was one of those maddening sentences where I say to myself, "I know EVERY word in this sentence...why can't I figure out what it means???" And then I spend the next hour puzzling over it every which way, which is one of the main reasons I'd be useless as a speed-subber, even if I were fluent (which I'm most assuredly not).

[creamyhorror]

And this is the first new series I've watched fansubbed, so I don't completely know how it works...I just assumed that once the DVDs start coming out, some new group will jump on the bandwagon...I may be wrong about that, though.

It's not really likely a new group will start on the DVDs, and if they do, they'll almost certainly use one of the existing groups' translation. Also, some things clearly can be done better with hindsight, or with a time lag of months (e.g. consistency in terminology, 'best' choice of wording), but with the wonder of closed captions, translation accuracy becomes a much smaller issue.

And thanks for the translation help! It was one of those maddening sentences where I say to myself, "I know EVERY word in this sentence...why can't I figure out what it means???" And then I spend the next hour puzzling over it every which way, which is one of the main reasons I'd be useless as a speed-subber, even if I were fluent (which I'm most assuredly not).

Did you identify the words あいなる and 鶴の一声? If not, that might've given you trouble with understanding the sentence (I'm not saying that I knew them already, I also had to look them up). In terms of subbing, I ask more experienced translators or native speakers whenever I encounter phrases I'm not sure about - absolutely no shame in it since you want to do a fully accurate job. That's quite a bit of work you did on Nyan Fro, by the way! (I didn't do more than skim your translation, though.)

Edited July 11, 2008 by creamyhorror

[Raptor One]

Just wanted to say thanks to VF-25 Messiah for his sub of episode 14

[MisaForever]

Just wanted to say thanks to VF-25 Messiah for his sub of episode 14

Crap, I must have missed it... WF-25 Messiah = Kei??? If so, GREAT JOB!!! Just a few misspellings but nothing big

[grss1982]

Well...it's better than "Brief-25."

And one of the MacZero fansubs, which kept translating "Hiyoko" literally as "chick" (like, a baby chicken) instead of the way it was used, as greenhorn, newbie, rookie, etc.

"I'll bring them both back...the VF-Zero...and those chicks!"

Of course you will, Roy...we never doubted you on THAT score...

Ah....Yes, the legendary Brief-25.

But despite those blunders by Seiyan, I really applaud them for giving it a shot. I mean could you imagine what the boards look like back in December 2007 if the Deculture Edition was'nt released? We'd have a ton of rage postings by irate MWers that didn't get their Macross FIX.

Edited July 12, 2008 by grss1982

[Duke Togo]

"Genesis Climber MACROSS"

[Gubaba]

It's not really likely a new group will start on the DVDs, and if they do, they'll almost certainly use one of the existing groups' translation. Also, some things clearly can be done better with hindsight, or with a time lag of months (e.g. consistency in terminology, 'best' choice of wording), but with the wonder of closed captions, translation accuracy becomes a much smaller issue.

Did you identify the words あいなる and 鶴の一声? If not, that might've given you trouble with understanding the sentence (I'm not saying that I knew them already, I also had to look them up). In terms of subbing, I ask more experienced translators or native speakers whenever I encounter phrases I'm not sure about - absolutely no shame in it since you want to do a fully accurate job. That's quite a bit of work you did on Nyan Fro, by the way! (I didn't do more than skim your translation, though.)

Luckily, my Japanese-English dictionary (Lighthouse) has TONS of example sentences, so I found 鶴の一声 by looking through those. (At first I was like, "Crane? What the hell...?")

But yes, あいなる eluded me.

Right now, I'm working on Macross drama albums (and starting -slowly- on Misa Hayase: "White Reminiscences"), and yeah...one of my Japanese friends is helping me quite a bit, but as she's an amateur comic artist, she doesn't have a whole lot of extra time, and sometimes I simply don't have the patience to wait.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Great to hear that you're taking on the radio dramas. Those get ignored too often.

As for Lunar, they're still pretty good, but I agree the "Remation Eater" bit was too bad. Though it *did* sound like that and the text proving otherwise was kind of easy to miss. It's still no "Brief 25" though . It's be nice if they did a v2 to fix it. I liked their phrasing of Grace's line the best too. I'll see how it goes, though I hate to switch groups for consistency sake. GG's parody though is true of most fans though. "He who releases first....wins."

If you happen to watch our subs, do give feedback then (since I don't know if you're referring to ours). Also, link to your Nyan Fro translation?

I did check out 14, and it was pretty good from what I could tell. The captions do help it seems. It's nice to see how far the groups come from the Pani Poni days. My only complaint isn't with your Macross Frontier, but rather Code Geass. Opinions on Ali project not withstanding, was it really necessary to vent such hatrid by writing, "F*ck Ali Project" right after a major death scene and emotional highpoint in the season? It sort of damaged the mood. ;;

Edited July 14, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Gubaba]

Great to hear that you're taking on the radio dramas. Those get ignored too often.

That's WHY I'm doing them! I found a summary of Macross Generation, but other than that, I couldn't find any information about them at all...I'm pretty much done with "Miss D.J." and about halfway through "Macross Love," and I'm on to "Distantly Fading Memories" next. I'm especially looking forward to "Macross Classic" and "Macross 7 Trash."

[Mercurial Morpheus]

You've finished "Miss D.J."? Awesome. I loved listening to that after I miraculously found it at Streetlight records. It works really well on a rural freeway at night.