I hate new anime

[danth]

Ever since I watched Robotech as a kid, I've loved japanese animation. Back in the eighties, I would watch any animation that I could tell was Japanese. I would search for comics and toys and videos and models, anything. It was all so very cool and exotic.

Now days, I still want to capture that feeling of discovery and wonder. So I'll rent some anime every once and a while, and, invariably, I find myself bored and annoyed at whatever I'm watching. Full Metal Panic, Gasaraki, um...poo, the other 20 or so were so bad I can't even remember their names. Anyway, I hated all of them. Everything new I try out is melodramatic, super-silly, and downright boring (I don't even care much for Cowboy Bebop. The movie literally put me to sleep). The anime they show on local TV is horrible, and the Cartoon Network stuff is just not that good.

Still, for some reason, I always give anime another chance. I can't shake the addiction to what I felt watching Macross and Bubble Gum Crisis and Megazone or reading Appleseed and Caravan Kid.

Then, the other day, I watched Venus Wars on cable. It was beautiful. The designs and animation rocked. The characters were believable and well drawn. It actually looked like Japanese animation.

So, the pattern emerges, and it was so obvious. I hate new anime, and I like old Japanese animation. I think the old stuff shouldn't be called anime. I think anime developed around 1995. Anything before that should be called Japanese animation, and has a chance of being good. Everything after that is anime, and most likely sucks.

Who's fault is it? What about all the unbathed and crusty-haired fans, who were so nerdy they found the Japanese word for animation instead of simply using the term "Japanese animation," and consumed uncritically all the crap shows that came to the US? What about Clamp and Shonen Jump, who seem to be a heavy influence in the industry, pushing their style of poorly drawn and poorly written cartoons?

The real pattern, though, is this: I like eighties-style animation with characters I care about. The last "anime" I've seen like this was Tenchi Muyo, the TV series. And of course it all started with Macross.

Does anyone else share my taste?

[eugimon]

not me. seems more like nostalgia to me than anything else. plenty of stuff that has come out recently has been great...

off the top of my head,

mac plus and even zero

ROD

Cowboy Bebop

Escaflowne

Hajime No Ippo

Naruto (though the last two arcs suck... I'll give you that)

Last Exile

Full Metal Alchemist...

Plenty of good stuff.

[EXO]

This should be part of the self hating anime fan club.

The thing is, there's so much anime out there, you gotta pick and choose.

Last Exile is one of my favorites. But seriously, the creators has to cut back on the philosphy on these things... Also, as far as the more expensive anime, quit showcasing the over animation and move the freaking story.

[bsu legato]

I'll agree with danth only so far as to say that most of the anime brought over here is indeed crap, with a few exceptions. If you want to see some of the good stuff (and there is good anime being produced today) you have to find it fansubbed. Shows like Monster and Full Metal Alchemist (before it was licensed) have renewed my interest. The problem is that they are so few and far between.

[mechaninac]

Finding good Anime, old and new, as with anything else entertainment related, is like searching for a precious jewel; then as now, most of the stuff that comes out is utter garbage, but even today you can find good to excellent anime that won't disappoint by being overly pedantic, or silly, or dull, or delving into nonsensical existentialism (Evangalion, Gasaraki)...but it all depends on your personal tastes. I'd bet that a large part of the reason you can't get into "new" anime is because you have changed, matured, or out grown anime in general, and the only reason you enjoy the old school stuff is due, as eugimon stated, to healthy dose of nostalgia.

You have to look through a pile of cubit zirconiums to find a single diamond.

[yellowlightman]

With the exception of Ghost in the Shell: SAC and a few random movies, I really haven't "liked" anime since 1995, so I know how you feel Danth. My interest in anime started with 80's stuff and I have yet to find much nowadays that can come close to the older titles.

[danth]

See, that's so weird. I don't even like anime that other anime fans like. I didn't like Mac Plus that much. Sure, it was cool seeing Valkyries kicking ass, but the story was gay. Isamu would NOT be allowed anywhere near a test plane in any version of reality. Isamu and Guld were both jerks, Myung was a hopeless victim, and that blonde chick was a ditz. I hate them all. Plus, the animation style was ugly.

And then there's Cowboy Bebop, an anime that can trick anime fans into thinking its uber-chic. Now there's an accomplishment. "Ooh, this guy wears a 70's style suit and knows kung-fu and smokes cigars! And the music is reminiscent of Shaft-- how cool!" Blah. I bought the first DVD and, as much as I tried to want to, I couldn't justify buying the next volume.

I mean, look at character development in anime now: Dumbass guy blows stuff up, then goes into melodramatic monologue, complete with still images, about his painful past. Ooh, I now identify with this character! I mean, you don't know how often I kill bad guys with fiery explosions and then recount how my father never loved me.

Yeah, this really is a self-hating anime fan thread.

[azrael]

Welcome to Nostalgia. "Where everybody remembers yesterday".

[JELEINEN]

Ever since I watched Robotech as a kid, I've loved japanese animation. Back in the eighties, I would watch any animation that I could tell was Japanese. I would search for comics and toys and videos and models, anything. It was all so very cool and exotic.

Now days, I still want to capture that feeling of discovery and wonder. So I'll rent some anime every once and a while, and, invariably, I find myself bored and annoyed at whatever I'm watching. Full Metal Panic, Gasaraki, um...poo, the other 20 or so were so bad I can't even remember their names. Anyway, I hated all of them. Everything new I try out is melodramatic, super-silly, and downright boring (I don't even care much for Cowboy Bebop. The movie literally put me to sleep). The anime they show on local TV is horrible, and the Cartoon Network stuff is just not that good.

Still, for some reason, I always give anime another chance. I can't shake the addiction to what I felt watching Macross and Bubble Gum Crisis and Megazone or reading Appleseed and Caravan Kid.

Then, the other day, I watched Venus Wars on cable. It was beautiful. The designs and animation rocked. The characters were believable and well drawn. It actually looked like Japanese animation.

So, the pattern emerges, and it was so obvious. I hate new anime, and I like old Japanese animation. I think the old stuff shouldn't be called anime. I think anime developed around 1995. Anything before that should be called Japanese animation, and has a chance of being good. Everything after that is anime, and most likely sucks.

Who's fault is it? What about all the unbathed and crusty-haired fans, who were so nerdy they found the Japanese word for animation instead of simply using the term "Japanese animation," and consumed uncritically all the crap shows that came to the US? What about Clamp and Shonen Jump, who seem to be a heavy influence in the industry, pushing their style of poorly drawn and poorly written cartoons? 

The real pattern, though, is this: I like eighties-style animation with characters I care about. The last "anime" I've seen like this was Tenchi Muyo, the TV series. And of course it all started with Macross.

Does anyone else share my taste?

327966[/snapback]

Gee. I wish I could be cool like you.

[Fort Max]

If you hate anime that much and are so confident in your belief that it is all now pathetic then just stop watching it.

I live in Britain, We used to make fantastic sitcoms many of which are considered classics even by culures other then our own.

Nowadays however they are nearly all rubbish and trite, uninspired, shallow reminders of what went before.

And so I never watch any of the new ones, not even a glimmer of interest.

It's much easier that way.

[HWR MKII]

There is a noticeable drop in visual depth and clarity of the new animations. Look at the oldefr ones and they are vibrant and have alot of visual depth through color use. Every shadow or speck of dust was painted and drawn. Now it seems visually flat, not as detailed, and grey. The vibrance is no longer there. GITS> SAC is a good series but is a good example of the visual flattening of the characters compared to such movies like Lensman, Wicked city, Gunnm, Cyber City, and Venus Wars.

Makes you wonder what happened in the last 10 years. Eugimon listed what could be considered the last of the visually stunning animation i have seen, with a few exceptions. The best example of the loss would be DYRL? compared to M0.

[reddsun1]

I'll say that I concur. Although my anime intake of late is extremely limited, I just like the old stuff that got me hooked better. Likewise with British TV. Even 30+ years on, I think Monty Python is still funny. Benny Hill, too. Guess I'm just nostalgic for Robotech, Area 88, Golgo 13, and stuff that impacted me when I was younger.

[Nightbat]

There is a noticeable drop in  visual depth and clarity of the new animations. Look at the oldefr ones and they are vibrant and have alot of visual depth through color use. Every shadow or speck of dust was painted and drawn. Now it seems visually flat, not as detailed, and grey. The vibrance is no longer there. GITS> SAC is a good series but is a good example of the visual flattening of the characters compared to such movies like Lensman, Wicked city, Gunnm, Cyber City, and Venus Wars.

  Makes you wonder what happened in the last 10 years. Eugimon listed what could be considered the last of the visually stunning animation i have seen, with a few exceptions. The best example of the loss would be DYRL? compared to M0.

328000[/snapback]

Distortion can make things more organic (just ask the modernaudio-philes the're still raving about transistortubes)

though I disagree with the amount of detail, I do agree that 'modern' animation looks "bland"

(and don't get me started on CGI)

as for TS comments:

Today's anime is much more abundant,... but so is the crap

You have to watch a load of stuff only to realise later on which were memorable

Fansubs prevent alot of miss-buys

Good series are out there, you just have to realise it's not "any anime is good anime" anymore

[Agent ONE]

Interesting comments... I ALWAYS thought most amine was crap. Macross was just a complete exception.

[Skull Leader]

The sad fact of the matter is that most anime "worth watching" is stuff that rarely makes it to the states... 3 series I really enjoy watching (in fansubbed format, which seems to be the best way these days) are all licensed in the US or are rumored to be picked up soon (Jungle Wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu, Sunabozu, and Zipang), but there is every chance they will never be released here. (well, Sunabozu might, albeit in a seriously hacked format) because the best stuff typically isn't the mainstream stuff like Gundam Wing, Dragon Ball Z, or the other festering pap that the typical feeble-minded donkey watches and idolizes here in the US. (I'd add Inu Yasha to this list, but my girlfriend watches it and would no doubt slit my throat if she heard me trash-talking her show! LOL)

[Black Valkyrie]

You are not only but still you`ll find good anime these days, it doesn`t has to be main stream. That`s why everybody says that the 80`s is golden area of anime, don`t forget the 60`s and 70`s both of them had very good animes.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[danth]

I'd bet that a large part of the reason you can't get into "new" anime is because you have changed, matured, or out grown anime in general, and the only reason you enjoy the old school stuff is due, as eugimon stated, to healthy dose of nostalgia.

327979[/snapback]

Yes and no.

Nostalgia plays a huge role. On an emotional level, I am definitely fond of the old stuff. But I don't look at the past through rose-colored glasses. I admit the faults of old anime; for instance, some of the old Macross episodes look like garbage (thanks Anime Friend), and I've always known that. But nostalgia isn't the only reason I like old japanese animation, not by a long shot.

The style has changed, and not for the better, in my opinion. When I first saw Robotech, I was awestruck with how beautiful the style and animation was. If the first anime I saw had been Full Metal Alchemist, I would have passed it over in favor of GI Joe. It's not nostalgia -- the two are styles are different and I just happen to like the old one better.

Remember the battle between Max and Milia aboard the Macross, as Hikaru watches from the hospital room? Remember how you can see the Q Rau from all angles as it flies by, the perspective changing in every frame, the blast of her thrusters causing visible distortion, hundreds of chunks of building falling to the ground? Have you ever seen anything like that in anime in the past ten years?

Edited September 13, 2005 by danth

[danth]

If you hate anime that much and are so confident in your belief that it is all now pathetic then just stop watching it....And so I never watch any of the new ones, not even a glimmer of interest.

It's much easier that way. 

327994[/snapback]

Good advice which I have already implemented. I'll still watch the old stuff though.

[EXO]

Think of it this way... your parents don't like your type of music and you won't like your kids...

uh oh... here comes the storm of "my parent listen to my cds, and I like listening to my kid's CDs." I'm talking in general people.

[danth]

seems more like nostalgia to me than anything else.

327969[/snapback]

I'll admit to nostalgia if you admit that new anime is qualitatively different than the old stuff. I don't mean better or worse, just different in a distinct way.

[hevangel2]

Actually, I have the same feeling. I also think the late 80s, early 90s anime are better than today's in term of storying telling. I think one of the problem is there are too many anime these days, and they are getting more and more mainstream. The writers are bowed to much to the market.

I havn't watched Cowboy Beebop, but FMP is a big let down close to the end, Garasaki is totally garbage. Last Exile is quite promising up to 2/3 of the show, but the end doesn't make any sense.

However there are still a few good anime I like. Escaflowne (not that new), Full Metal Alchemist, Elfen Lied (not well known but highly recommanded), Crest of the Star series. Give them a try and I am sure you would like these anime.

[Max Jenius]

Its like the old people on Family Guy "Yeah! Stuff we remember!"

I seriously think you're just getting old and you've seen tons of anime by now. Its no longer some neat thing that nobody else does, its no longer mysterious to most people including yourself. Its become mainstream.

[armentage]

I think a lot of it is that many of us are much older than we were when we first watched those old 80's anime, and have thus learned to appreciate better story telling. I sometimes think that those old anime stories I loved so much might actually be utter trip, but nostalgia plays tricks on the memory.

Then again, Macross really was great, Bubble Gum Crisis was pretty damn original (for it's time) and no one can deny that Gundam REALLY tried to tell a compelling story. I give you 3 examples of great anime... and how many crap anime am I not naming?

Back in the day, anime was hard to get, and even harder to fan-sub. You had a filtering process - people wouldn't waste time discussing crap anime, much less translating and fan-subbing it.

I mean, HG imported Macross, NOT GOD MARS (ugh, what a piece of crap that show was). Early fans LOVED Gundam and GE999. AnimEigo imported BGC to help start the anime crazy (they also imported MADDOX-01, utter crap!)

Ugh... Project A-KO. One of the first otakish anime I ever watched (with the horrible dub!) and I LOVED it, because there was nothing to compare it to. Show it to a non-fanboy today, and they will NOT be impressed, though back then even non anime/sci-fi/comic book fans would think that A-KO was somehow special.

There's also changing themes to consider. You just might not be "into" the topics they like to anime these days.

[EXO]

Sure,I'd admit to outgrowing anime as it is today. But I understand Danth and wish there was anime that targetted people that loved anime in the 80's. It doesn't necessarily mean handdrawn, but close or maybe even emulates it.

But I'm not gonna kid myself. Anime isn't the only thing like that. I just happen to catch an old Tom and Jerry cartoon and much prefer that to the ugly cartoons they prefer to pump out now.

[danth]

Its no longer some neat thing that nobody else does, its no longer mysterious to most people including yourself. Its become mainstream.

328029[/snapback]

That's true, but it has nothing to do with why I don't like new anime.

For instance, I really like old fastback Mustangs. It has nothing to do with nostalgia or mystery -- I wasn't even alive then, and those cars are too popular to be mysterious. I just happen to like them a lot, and they happen to be old. I think the eighties Mustangs suck all kinds of ass, and that was the same time I'm nostalgic for when it comes to music or TV.

The two are different and I happen to like the old one better, like many other people.

[danth]

Okay, let's be superficial for a moment.

Can anyone recommend a post-1999 anime that looks beautiful? I'm talking great-looking animation and design. This is your chance to change my mind.

[areaseven]

Okay, let's be superficial for a moment.

Can anyone recommend a post-1999 anime that looks beautiful? I'm talking great-looking animation and design. This is your chance to change my mind.

328034[/snapback]

Off the top of my head:

Cowboy Bebop: The Movie

Escaflowne: The Movie

Figure 17: Tsubasa & Hikaru

Full Metal Panic!

Gate Keepers

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex

Ghost in the Shell II: Innocence

Howl's Moving Castle

Heat Guy J

Last Exile

Macross Zero

Metropolis

Planetes

Please Teacher!

RahXephon

Samurai Champloo

Spirited Away

Steamboy

Steel Angel Kurumi

Submarine 707R

Vandread

Yukikaze

Edited September 13, 2005 by areaseven

[Fort Max]

Okay, let's be superficial for a moment.

Can anyone recommend a post-1999 anime that looks beautiful? I'm talking great-looking animation and design. This is your chance to change my mind.

328034[/snapback]

Eureka Seven, seems very cliche and same old, same old at first but each new episode has drawn me in further and further. I was hooked weeks ago but it still continues to dangle tantalising glimpses of a great many secrets that are being held back. The battle animations area nimated with a fluidity and sense of speed that I just wasn't expecting

otoh, it has that monologing you dislike so much and the character designs aren't breathtakingly beautifull.

It's animated by studio Bones with mechs designed by Shoji Kawamori himself if that helps any.

That'd be my top of my head vote for current best show, you allready poo, pooed my other choice though which would have been the new Full Metal panic.

[JELEINEN]

seems more like nostalgia to me than anything else.

327969[/snapback]

I'll admit to nostalgia if you admit that new anime is qualitatively different than the old stuff. I don't mean better or worse, just different in a distinct way.

328025[/snapback]

Sure styles have changed. Just like styles changed from the 70's to the 80's, and the 80's to the 90's. Life goes on, you know.

I almost might have agreed with you. I don't like most anime (sturgeon's law and all, which applies to new and old stuff alike), but I don't begrudge people who like stuff I don't. The fact that you chose to pre-emptively insult everyone who disagrees with you does not validate your opinion. It just shows that you're an a-hole and a moron.

[bsu legato]

Okay, let's be superficial for a moment.

Can anyone recommend a post-1999 anime that looks beautiful? I'm talking great-looking animation and design. This is your chance to change my mind.

328034[/snapback]

As apathetic as I am towards the show, I'll freely admit that Aquarion look gorgeous.

[Max Jenius]

Its no longer some neat thing that nobody else does, its no longer mysterious to most people including yourself. Its become mainstream.

328029[/snapback]

That's true, but it has nothing to do with why I don't like new anime.

For instance, I really like old fastback Mustangs. It has nothing to do with nostalgia or mystery -- I wasn't even alive then, and those cars are too popular to be mysterious. I just happen to like them a lot, and they happen to be old. I think the eighties Mustangs suck all kinds of ass, and that was the same time I'm nostalgic for when it comes to music or TV.

The two are different and I happen to like the old one better, like many other people.

328033[/snapback]

All I'm saying is that anime is almost passe now. I watch old animes I used to like in disbelief.

[Noriko Takaya]

I myself am a fan of old school anime, but that hasn't stopped me from watching any of the newer stuff and actually appreciating some of it. While I can agree that a lot of the stuff coming to the States is crap, some of it is actually good. I like the anime shows of the 80's, the era where the OVA format was starting to pick up. Us Renditions must have had it in for me when they released Gunbuster and Dangaio. Both were series that I fell in love with the first time I watched them, and Gunbuster is my favorite anime of all time. I didn't have that feeling again for quite a while until Macross Plus was released. Now if you would like a crappy example of newer anime, look at Aim for the Top! 2 Diebuster.

[Jolly Rogers]

Anime is still being made for the same age group, for the same reasons - pushing merchandise.

Us as an audience has matured in taste, it's the same reason most people found the new trilogy weak compared to the original trilogy of Star Wars.

[Mr March]

I'd have to say I totally disagree with the assessment that new anime is terrible, especially in comparison to older anime.

Like popular music and film, trends appear over time that may not always appeal to every viewer. But distaste for current trends by no means invalidates them nor implies such trends are inherently inferior to the styles upon which you were raised. In fact, innovative presentation (which may or may not become a trend) is more often significant than the actual concept or story of a given work. So many of our stories are simply modern updates of tried and true tales, merely given more relevance to current life. In film, Quentin Tarantino is often cited as the most recognizable example of a director who sticks rigidly to classic stories of 60's/70's action cinema but presents these stories in a new, highly innovative format with aggressive emphasis on modern film style and techniques.

I've been an anime fan for two decades now, yet Cowboy Bebop is easily one of my favorite animes of all time, a series which is circa 1998.

Personally, I embrace new trends, styles, and innovation in any genre of art or entertainment. The more diverse and bizzare, the better.

[Father Jack]

Okay, let's be superficial for a moment.

Can anyone recommend a post-1999 anime that looks beautiful? I'm talking great-looking animation and design. This is your chance to change my mind.

328034[/snapback]

The diary of Tortov Roddle

Very interesting some may not consider it to be anime, but I do.