Star Wars

[MGREXX]

Do you feel that George will make this latest episode a hit or will in be 3 so-so movies in a row?

[eriku]

As long as I get to see more Jar Jar I'll be happy.

[Knight26]

The only reason Jar Jar should appear is to die a horrible death, that would make the movie worth it if nothing else.

Edited March 31, 2005 by Knight26

[Prime]

Right now all signs point to me enjoying the final film...

[Anubis]

Signs point to goodness this time around.

[haro genki]

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he's going to do it "right" again, but I am definetly thinking that this is a going to be a vast improvement over his last two attempts.

[Hikuro]

Jar Jar Assisination would just make anyone say the movie rocked. Espically if it were a head shot so you know he wont be coming back....yeeessss....a bloody, messy head shot.........back........and to the left.

[zeo-mare]

i am very hopeful of this movie, i am not expecting orginal trilogy greatness, but i am expecting it to be the best of all 3 new films.

chris

[Knight26]

Best idea yet for Ep-3, Sev from RC Delta Squad drops on Jar Jar, decapitates him, mutilates the body then Scorch sticks a breaching charge in his head and uses it to kill a jedi.

[Agent ONE]

Thus far all 5 movies are on the same level of greatness... I think he will end it trying to make this one slightly better, but still fitting in with the rest.

[Radd]

I gotta agree with AgentOne. Really, my least favourite was Phantom Menace, but I still managed to enjoy it. Woulda enjoyed it a lot more had Jar-Jar been toned way the hell down. In the second movie my wish came true, he appeared just enough to be an enjoyable character (I still love how he handed the galaxy over to Chancellor Palpatine). Clones I still enjoy more than A New Hope, but not as much as Empire or Jedi, but then only because of things like Goth Poetry Corner with Anakin Vader. I rather enjoyed everything else about EpII. Episode III looks to be devoid of scenes like those, replacing the adolescent angsty Anakin with the grown up, asskicking Jedi Knight Anakin, as well as Anakin turned Vader. I've allowed myself to read all the spoilers and look at all the pictures leaked out, and everything I've read and seen points to this movie quite likely being better than Empire. It really seems that even without the suit, Vader is going to be Vader for a good portion of the film.

[Godzilla]

As long as I get to see more Jar Jar I'll be happy.

I hope you sir are joking...

[Duke Togo]

Where is the option for 'Who cares, its Star Wars... just watch it and eat you fu<king popcorn."

[GRAND CANNON]

Where is the option for 'Who cares, its Star Wars... just watch it and eat you fu<king popcorn."

Can I change my vote to that option!?!?

Even better, how about:

"This is the last time you'll be able to sell-off your POTF2 figures before you end up eatin' them."

[Agent ONE]

[Hurin]

Well, I'm now forced to just spout off short snippets like you guys. Because, we're willing to listen to people say: "They're all the same" all day long. And there seems to be a lot of people who love to just pop in to say it in every Star Wars thread. But a guy who tries to argue the opposite is usually told to shut the hell up. I've come to accept it. No need to tell me why it happens.

The Lucas Suck-o-Meter: 100% means no suckage. 0% obviously means full suckage.

Don't bother arguing with this meter. I'm not claiming it's scientific and must be refuted. It's just the way I see things. Obviously, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything anymore.

Hurin's Star Wars Suck-o-meter

100 - NO SUCKAGE

95 -

90 - Empire Strikes Back

85 - A New Hope

80 -

75 -

70 -

65 -

60 - Return of the Jedi

55 - Attack of the Clones

50 -

45 -

40 -

35 -

30 - The Phantom Menace

25 -

20 -

15 -

10 -

05 -

00 - FULL SUCKAGE

I'm hoping for a solid 80 for Episode III! Damn him, Lucas actually has be believing in him again!

Edited March 31, 2005 by Hurin

[Effect]

I don't really think Lucas disappointed anyone with Episode 1(true Anakin was annoying in the end) and 2. I still think those(not everyone but a good amount of people) that hate or dislike Episodes 1 and 2(though, not as many dislike 2) set themselves up to be disappointed by having in their mind what things should have been like before viewing the films or felt that it should have been a certain way due to reading the EU novels over the years. Some people I think played out certain things but were disappointed when Lucas went in a different direction. Is that Lucas's fault they didn't like the film? No not at all I feel. Its his story and he's going to tell it how he sees fit. Not do things simply cause fans want to see certains.

Episode 1 was better after viewing Episode 2 I feel cause I saw more of the connection in terms of the story. I'm sure both will look even better after Episode 3. People need to remember, Episode 1-3 are one whole story spread over three films. Episode 4 was setup in order to stand alone, Episode 5 and 6 weren't were certain to be made. Yet that film leaves several things unquestioned. 5 and 6 clear things up and continue the story over two films. Lucas had the power to do the prequels with his own money so he was able to spread things further, so that one film doesn't really stand alone but one needs to watch all three to get the whole story.

Still like others I don't think the OT was any better then the PT. People just look at it different since they saw it when they were younger. Or at a time when special effects weren't that great. So that biases them against the PT which they view now as an adult and no longer look through the eyes of a child and see special effects everywhere. Lucas hasn't changed, fans have, yet they want to blame him for their disappointment. Now this isn't to say he hasn't done some things that might be disappointing(cause he has I agree) but to blame him for everything or even a majority of the disappointment a person feels isn't fair at all I feel.

Also Jar Jar wasn't bad at all. I like him to be honest. He can be annoying at times but so did 3PO. I liked seeing new Star Wars aliens. Not just one character but a whole planet full. Makes the Star Wars universe seem more alive I feel.

Edited March 31, 2005 by Effect

[Hurin]

I'm not going to get sucked into this any further than two points:

People just look at it different since they saw it when they were younger.

This may be the case for some people. Yet, as a kid, I loved RotJ first and foremost. But as I aged, it lost its luster until I now feel it is the weakest of the OT due to its descending into infantalism. Yet, I never lost my affinity for the other two movies (ANH and ESB). They have stood the test of time, age, and maturity. Why is that? I'd argue that it's because those two movies had a more adult (or at least teenage) "cinematic sensibility" that did not pander to the children so much that they simultaneously annoyed the adults.

I see this: "You just prefer the OT because of nostalgia" argument all the time. But it simply just does not fit the facts with me or any of my Star Wars-oriented friends.

And, finally, I'll leave it with this. ewilen put it so well and I am quoting it so much that I might as well make it my signature. . . but then how would people get their DYRL subtitles!?!

It's obvious to me that the original two movies in their original versions have a more mature cinematic sensibility. But a lot of people either don't care because it's genre stuff (this arguably includes Rober Ebert, given his review of Phantom Menace), or approach the whole thing from the kickass fanboy/continuity nerd perspective.

The original Star Wars was a pastiche or "loving parody" of earlier works from Saturday afternoon serials to Golden Age of Science Fiction space opera, Westerns, and Kurosawa, all informed by the literary/anthropological theories of Joseph Campbell. As such it stood by itself and really didn't need a sequel or continuity at all--in fact, the film works in large part because of what it leaves out, alluding only to a vague background which is left to the viewer's imagination.

The Empire Strikes Back was a partially successful effort at capitalizing on Star Wars by developing a continuity. It managed to be a good film by growing up with the audience and taking some chances. Return of the Jedi was just a formulaic potboiler designed to tie up the loose ends, and as such it would never be able to stand on its own.

RotJ recycled a great deal of the original film instead of developing new ideas, and indeed crossed the line between comic relief and kiddifying the story. Also, by making the emperor a "Force wizard" instead of a mundane tyrant, the film shrank Darth Vader's role. In fact, the entire story shrank, and continued to do so in the first prequel (which is where I got off): from now on, everything that goes on in the universe revolves around Darth Vader, his family, and The Force. All the mysterious or allusive background elements in Star Wars, from C3PO to Jabba, are incestuously tied together. (Kind of like what almost happened between Luke and his sister.) Lucas doesn't try to conceive of anything new or fresh; for the most part, he just fills in the blanks with whatever's most conveniently at hand.

But there is really no point in arguing this stuff with Max or A1. I have a feeling that A1 is just trying to get under Hurin's skin anyway; and as for Max, he's made clear that he prefers to view Star Wars as a bit of escapist fluff. So, having gone off on this topic, I'm just going to add the banal Internet catchall disclaimer: IMO, and move on.

Best,

H

[Ladic]

I just read the comic book adaptation and it was awesome.

[Hurin]

Also Jar Jar wasn't bad at all. I like him to be honest. He can be annoying at times but so did 3PO. I liked seeing new Star Wars aliens. Not just one character but a whole planet full. Makes the Star Wars universe seem more alive I feel.

I'm not going to touch the standard Jar Jar love/hate stuff at the end. It just leaves me speechless. As A1 might say were he to hate Ep1 as much as he hates M7: I hate Jar Jar enough to murder someone over it. I just don't think Threepio ever elicited the sort of hatred that Jar Jar did. . . because Threepio (in the OT) never engaged in pratfalls, fart jokes, and scene-stealing lame-assness to the extent that Jar Jar did. Hell, Threepio's a little prissy and he gets in the way of Han getting some in ESB. . . but to me there really is no comparison.

Something else that Jar Jar represents to me is an overall change in the seriousness with which Lucas took his own universe. As "scholars" of Tolkien have always said, it is the absolute internal consistency of the universe that Tolkien created that lends much of the magic and power to his works. At no point is the veil of reality ever lifted. Suspension of disbelief can become total as you immerse yourself in a world that is totally divorced from reality, yet has its own history, customs, legends, languages and all the atmospheric power that comes along with them. And, to his credit, with one or two minor exceptions, Peter Jackson didn't make the mistake of "lifting this veil" when he adapted those books into films.

Lucas, I would argue, used to take a similar stance towards his Star Wars universe. There is no "winking" at the camera in IV and V. There are no references to things that do not belong in the Star Wars universe. At no point does he want you to doubt for a second that this story took place A Long Time Ago. . . In a Galaxy Far, Far Away. The atmosphere of IV and V was very Tolkien-esque in its establishment of an internally consistent universe with its own deep history. This began to change as the "winking at the camera" started a bit more subtley in VI (The ewok "Tarzan" scream comes to mind immediately). But, with Ep1, you find the gungans (of course, most notably Jar Jar) using American slang (or spanish) as their dialect ("ex-squeeze me" "Muy muy important", etc.) You have aliens from his friend's science fiction movies making cameo appearances for crying out loud!

Late Edit: Oh, and the "death sticks"/cigarettes in Ep2. Let's not forget those. Now he's preaching about our current health problems to us in his movies. Lovely. That helps my suspension of disbelief!(End Late Edit)

Yes, that irks me. Really, Jar Jar is the Rosetta Stone to understanding everything that went wrong with Star Wars and Lucas's turn away from the cool, and towards the kids. Jar Jar is the stargate. The alpha and the omega. He is. . . the Basara.

Edited March 31, 2005 by Hurin

[Tico0001]

Hey Hurin, i agree 99% with you. But i'm not aware of the cameo of alien's from other movies... what are you refering to? Just out of curiosity.

~Tico

[eugimon]

there were some ET's in the senate during the first move...

and this one is going to suck too.. don't fool yourself guys. suckiness punctuated by moments of awesome and then back to the suck.

[MGREXX]

there were some ET's in the senate during the first move...

and this one is going to suck too.. don't fool yourself guys. suckiness punctuated by moments of awesome and then back to the suck.

So there will be a lot of sucking in this movie huh?

Speaking of which, George Lucas needs to finally let loose and let Natalie Portman show us some more of that fine southern skin of hers.

Personally, I think he this will be the best of the new trilogy but not as good as any of the originals.

Edited March 31, 2005 by MGREXX

[JsARCLIGHT]

Honestly I was jazzed to see the first prequel when it came out years ago. I remember my then girlfriend (now wife) had just got back and she somehow miracled some tickets for the opening night and we went to like the 2:30am show and watched it.

I remember liking it at first... on the big screen it was impressive, especially the podrace and the final three-way lightsaber fight. Then as time went on and I saw the movie again and again on video I started to not like it. All the little annoying things starting poping up to me, the things you never saw that first time in the theater. Soon all those little annoyances ruined the movie for me as I was now obsessing on the bad and ignoring the good.

Then came Attack of the Clowns. My wife offered to try and get tickets for us opening week but I told her to wait. I was so "sullied" by the first movie at this point I did not want to see AOTC. She finally talked me into seeing it and we went around week three or four it was out. Once again, on the big screen it was impressive. I liked a lot about it and overall left the theater liking it. But once again, repeated viewing on video drew my eye to all the bad... all the terrible. Once again the good feelings generated by seeing it on the big screen vanished after repeat watchings... repeat picking-it-aparts.

Now comes Ep3... I am once again torn whether to go right away or wait. I think I'm going to try and go right away and get it "over with" so to speak. All in all there are a few things I like about the first two prequels but a LOT that I didn't like... but that level of fanboyish loathing for the prequels took a lot of repeat viewings to get to. I really hope this last one will not go the same route... but... same actors, same director, same scripting... it does not sound as if it will suddenly "break the previous trend" but rather be more of the same. Breaking a trend usually requires outside influence.

[Graham]

Actually, I'm the opposite. I didn't like TPM or AOTC that much when I saw them at the theatre, but have grown to like them more with repeated viewings on DVD, especially AOTC. Gotta love those Republic Gunships .

Oh, and I bet Jar Jar will be revealed as a Sith in ROTS .

Graham

[MGREXX]

Oh, and I bet Jar Jar will be revealed as a Sith in ROTS  .

Revealed as a sith??

NO!!!!!!!! He WILL BE THE MAIN SITH LORD!!!!!!!!!!

He will school the green hunchback of notre Dagobah in ROTS, which is why he was so Fu$@ed up in the original trilogy

Jar jar........who knew!!!!!!

Edited April 1, 2005 by MGREXX

[Noriko Takaya]

Really, Jar Jar is the Rosetta Stone to understanding everything that went wrong with Star Wars and Lucas's turn away from the cool, and towards the kids. Jar Jar is the stargate. The alpha and the omega. He is. . . the Basara.

No, you are wrong about this. Jar Jar is not the Rosetta Stone. He may have come first in the order of things, but Lucas' pinnacle to appeal to the kiddies is when he made a bunch of teddy bears overthrow the mightiest military force in the galaxy. The friggin' Ewoks sucked. And Jedi would have been a better film if it weren't for them. Going by your scale, ROTJ should be below AOTC in my opinion, just because of Ewoks.

As for Revenge, I am hoping beyond all hope this movie will rock. I also agree with Graham; I've gotten to like the first two prequels more with repeated viewings on TV and DVD.

MGREXX="Speaking of which, George Lucas needs to finally let loose and let Natalie Portman show us some more of that fine southern skin of hers."

WTF are you talking about? Portman is not a southerner, as she was born in Israel and raised in New York.

[Guest Bromgrev]

The friggin' Ewoks sucked. And Jedi would have been a better film if it weren't for them. Going by your scale, ROTJ should be below AOTC in my opinion, just because of Ewoks.

As for Revenge, I am hoping beyond all hope this movie will rock. I also agree with Graham; I've gotten to like the first two prequels more with repeated viewings on TV and DVD.

Nah, even teddy-bear suits are an improvement over CGI cartoon aliens. Jarjar Binks might not even have sucked so badly if he had been an actor in make-up and speaking unintelligible (as opposed to merely unintelligent) subtitled alien gibberish. The only CGI character that's ever worked for me was Gollum.

But that's not the point. I actuall love a lot of elements of TPM and AOTC more than anything in the original three. But I still don't like the new films as a whole. The characters just don't do it for me. That said, I get the feeling that George Lucas is actually trying to please his audience, so there's hope yet, even if it's not a new hope.

Anyway, I'm still going to see it. And buy the DVD.

Ooh, look, a little blue square

Edited April 1, 2005 by Bromgrev

[Black Valkyrie]

but have grown to like them more with repeated viewings on DVD, especially AOTC. Gotta love those Republic Gunships .

Same here, I really love the final battle in AOTC with all this Clonetroopres, walkers and the gunships. For me SW is SW as long it has the buzzings swords

BRAVE OF YOU BOY I THOUGHT YOU HAD YOUR LESSON Dooku, AOTC.

[Radd]

WTF are you talking about? Portman is not a southerner, as she was born in Israel and raised in New York.

SOUTHERN Israel....duh.

[Amped]

Well, I saw TPM a grand total of ONE time - in a theater. I was so pissed off coming out of it that I alienated my friends for the rest of the evening as they thought I had overacted to how craptacular it was. With time, they have all come to agree that I was the only lucid one to have exited the theater... and that they had all been drunk on the childhood memories of Star Wars after a 20 year gap.

I refused to go see AOTC when it debuted. That's right, I dissed it and never did see it in a theater. I did finally did cave and watched it on a sweet-ass home theater system... and promptly thanked God I didn't pay for theater tix... or the price of a rental. I laughed at the overall badness... but could not get over the frightfully bad dialogue & delivery. *paraphrasing* 'Your skin is smooth m'lady, not course and scratchy like sand' At least TPM had the Darth Maul duel at the end.

IMO, ROTS will most likely be the best of the lot... which is a back-handed compliment of sorts. I haven't decided if I will see it in a theater yet.

*steps on fanboy soap box* My problem with the prequels is just that the entire story arc Lucas went with seems so much less grand than I expected. Anakin was supposed to be a 'good' man that somehow succumbed to the dark side... instead we got some unsympathetic, petulant, self-absorbed teenbopper jerk that basically never 'matures' or grows up. Even the purported manner in which he 'dispatches' Padme makes him seem just plain thug-ish. The Clone Wars themselves never seemed as sinister or grand as they could've been... etc.

IMO, the best thing about the Star Wars revival has been the Clone Wars cartoon.

[Fortress_Maximus]

All I care about is the epic lightsaber battles that we can expect. Palpatine v. Mace, Anakin v. Ben, Yoda v. Dooku (I hope), and others. The story is already predetermined so there isn't a whole lot of surprises Lucas can use. And could he still f it up? Sure, but I honestly do not care anymore, I just want to see the Jedi Counsel destroyed, the Sith rise to terrifying power, Natalie naked, whoops oh well , and the rebirth of Anakin as Vader. For myself if I just saw those scenes done well in the film I'd be content. And yes I will watch the film in theatres but only a month later, damn I hate those annoying brats.

Edited April 1, 2005 by Fortress_Maximus

[Pat Payne]

The friggin' Ewoks sucked. And Jedi would have been a better film if it weren't for them. Going by your scale, ROTJ should be below AOTC in my opinion, just because of Ewoks.

Originally, the Ewoks were supposed to be Wookies... damn merchandisable Ewoks

[Blaine23]

I'm simply stunned that there is this much hope that the 3rd one will be a great movie. It's kinda like watching Charlie Brown try to kick that football over and over again.

Either way, I'm pretty much in the Hurin camp (which surprises even me ) on my opinions of each movie, give or take a few points here and there on the suck-o-meter.

The best I can manage for optimism is that ROTS will at least be better than the other two prequels. Other than that, I realistically imagine it will have some amazing moments and some really clunky ones that will detract from my enjoyment of the movies.

So far the only really great scene in the prequels for me has been the duel at the end of Phantom Menace... terrific editing, perfect fight scene... just awesome. Everything else has been pretty blah for me. I'll still watch the OT and pretend the new ones don't exist for the most part.

[Noriko Takaya]

WTF are you talking about? Portman is not a southerner, as she was born in Israel and raised in New York.

SOUTHERN Israel....duh.

D'oh! Now why didn't I figure that one out?!