Seto Kaiba Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) What the hell is this thing? The more I look at it, the more I start to suspect this is a homage to the VF-2SS Valkyrie II... the airframe-hugging super parts, the long, dorsally-mounted cannon(s) that look suspiciously like they'd fold down 90 degrees in battroid mode, the bits on the end of the wings that look like the Super Armed Pack's missile pods... Where precisely did you find this? Bloody bastard hell, that's some new set of super parts for the VF-25F in the movie... it's in the latest trailer. There's no doubt, after seeing it in the trailer, this is a homage to the VF-2SS Valkyrie II and its Super Armed Pack. I'm not sure whether I should find this amusing or insulting. Well, HG is damn too lazy to introduce a new mecha into the series that's why all RT fans get are rehashes of the same old toys. It's not that Harmony Gold is too lazy to introduce new mecha... it's that they're too inexperienced or inept to design one that doesn't look like poo. Even when they were just designing a transforming version of that non-transformable fighter from Genesis Climber Mospeada, the end result was still uglier than a week of bad weather, and never even made it past the lineart stage. The "Super Cyclone" and "Super Shadow Fighter" don't count, since they're just existing designs with even more chunky bits stapled on, which leaves the only new design they've ever come up with being the "Silverback" transforming jeep, which is hideous and the transformation makes no bloody sense. Edited October 9, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 There's no doubt, after seeing it in the trailer, this is a homage to the VF-2SS Valkyrie II and its Super Armed Pack. I'm not sure whether I should find this amusing or insulting. Take a time out... stop fixating on MacII... then realize it looks almost nothing like the VF-2SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolicon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Why would Kawamori copy a design from a bastard series made without his input and/or blessing? And being insulted that Macross Frontier is "stealing" the Macross II designs is hilarious, seeing as the Macross II designs are just poor ripoffs of the original SDF Macross designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) Why would Kawamori copy a design from a bastard series made without his input and/or blessing? And being insulted that Macross Frontier is "stealing" the Macross II designs is hilarious, seeing as the Macross II designs are just poor ripoffs of the original SDF Macross designs. In that case, how is that any different from Macross Zero and Macross Frontier then, both of which do the exact same thing for the VF-0 and VF-25 respectively? Take a time out... stop fixating on MacII... then realize it looks almost nothing like the VF-2SS. Take a time out, stop making unfounded claims that Kawamori hates Macross II and fixating on a Macross show where the only qualification to be a pilot is the be able to five star every song on expert in Guitar Hero... then realize the super parts look very much like the Super Armed Pack on the VF-2SS Valkyrie II. Then stop and consider that Kawamori has never shown any qualms about using material from Macross II before (see ~85% of Macross 7's BGM), or having it used in official publications or new merchandise (see Macross Chronicle, VF-100 line, etc.). You know, Harmony Gold should just cave in and make a badly animated direct sequal to Macross showing what happened to Rick Hunter and Lisa Hayes without once using the name Macross and not showing us anything too reminiscent of Macross. Isn't that what the live-action movie ultimately is? The Macross equivalent of Coke Zero? Everything they think you love about the original, but with none of the potentially problematic stuff, ultimately turning out to be something that resembles the original in name only? Edited October 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 While I can see a similar style of armored pack for the VF-25 from the VF-2SS, I don't think it looks all that much like it. To me, it looks more like the Feyos (don't know if I spelled that right) from Macross VFX-2 video game. While this conversation is interesting, I'll go back to the topic and ask if anyone has heard any updates on the FASA, Mechwarrior/HG issue with the certain design in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 While this conversation is interesting, I'll go back to the topic and ask if anyone has heard any updates on the FASA, Mechwarrior/HG issue with the certain design in question? Since the initial batch of cease & desist notifications were sent to IGN and a few other sites, there haven't been any new developments in the MechWarrior situation between Harmony Gold and Piranha Games. It looks like Harmony Gold's trying to keep the whole thing quiet, since they failed spectacularly when they tried to hush up the situation with Catalyst Game Labs. Information requests sent to Harmony Gold on this and a variety of other subjects over a month ago haven't received any responses at all, not even a "we decline to comment". Unfortunately, I think if someone's going to stand up to Harmony Gold on the issue of Macross rights, it's not going to be the Battletech/MechWarrior franchise owners. Catalyst caved to Harmony Gold's demands pretty quick, and I'd expect Piranha is going to follow suit soon if they haven't already. It's all bad press for Harmony Gold in the end, so if they do get their way again, it's still going to hurt them in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Take a time out, stop making unfounded claims that Kawamori hates Macross II and fixating on a Macross show where the only qualification to be a pilot is the be able to five star every song on expert in Guitar Hero... then realize the super parts look very much like the Super Armed Pack on the VF-2SS Valkyrie II. Ok first off you stole that guitar hero bit from some other thread. Second, since when does armor that makes the plane into a delta wing fighter (like the VF-0) mean anything? Maybe if you squint they look the same, but you're just reaching because you're the butthurt Macross II fan. Then stop and consider that Kawamori has never shown any qualms about using material from Macross II before (see ~85% of Macross 7's BGM), or having it used in official publications or new merchandise (see Macross Chronicle, VF-100 line, etc.). Tetsuro Amino directed Macross 7 and Victor supplied the music. Using that catchy tune from Macross II isn't really indicative of anything outside of them wanting to use existing music. And Big West controls the Macross franchise so its not like they won't throw out some Macross II stuff when the time arises. You're worse than a Gundam X fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Take a time out, stop making unfounded claims that Kawamori hates Macross II and fixating on a Macross show where the only qualification to be a pilot is the be able to five star every song on expert in Guitar Hero... then realize the super parts look very much like the Super Armed Pack on the VF-2SS Valkyrie II. Then stop and consider that Kawamori has never shown any qualms about using material from Macross II before (see ~85% of Macross 7's BGM), or having it used in official publications or new merchandise (see Macross Chronicle, VF-100 line, etc.). Did I say that Kawamori hates MacII? I don't remember saying that, although I may have to irritate you over at RT.com, but I believe the company line is still "Kawamori never bothered watching MacII." Also, don't we know that Kawamori had nothing to do with the music in Mac7 but that was some other guy who worked on both projects (name totally escapes me)? Another point, the SAP was just an adaptation of a Kawamori design as reimagined futuristically... wouldn't it make sense to you that when Kawamori later does his own futuristic adaptation of his own work it might bare some similarities to his own design, and thus, the design that was also derived from his work? Finally, the similarities are far over-shadowed by the differences. This thing is organic looking and seems integrated into the VF-25 like the way it extends the wings both outward and back. The SAP carried more of the original fast pack elements as big chunky add ons. I'm not really trying to disparrage the VF-2SS (which I'm not a fan of) or the SAP, I'm just saying it's a bit short-sighted to think that Kawamori is deriving his inspiration from the work inspired by his work rather than his own work. You're kind of starting to sound like those Robotech fans who think that Robotech helped shape Macross sequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) One last acknowledgment of the RAAAAAGE provoked by the mere suggestion that Kawamori and/or Big West might actually dare to acknowledge Macross II at some point: Ok first off you stole that guitar hero bit from some other thread. Second, since when does armor that makes the plane into a delta wing fighter (like the VF-0) mean anything? Maybe if you squint they look the same, but you're just reaching because you're the butthurt Macross II fan. It's not exactly a hard joke to make, and the similarities are there, and they're pretty bloody obvious. Sounds more like you're butthurt over the idea of Macross II being acknowledged in any way, however briefly. Another point, the SAP was just an adaptation of a Kawamori design as reimagined futuristically... This thing is organic looking and seems integrated into the VF-25 like the way it extends the wings both outward and back. The SAP carried more of the original fast pack elements as big chunky add ons. Eh... no. Valkyrie II, yes. Super Armed Pack... no. Go back and look at the lineart for it, not the goddamn awful toy from the 90's. The Super Armed Pack hugs the fighter's hull closely (except the wings are folded instead of inside the pack) the big honking gun that extends past the canopy, the blocks on the end of the wings, the lack of big, effing backpack boosters. Far more similarities than differences. Getting back to the whole Catalyst/Piranha/HG thing... I got in touch with a buddy of mine who's really big into both the Battletech tabletop game and MechWarrior, and according to him, there's been nothing on the matter from either company since Catalyst's retraction of the disputed art and IGN's removal of the game's trailer. At least, nothing that's been made public. Whether Piranha bowed to pressure from Harmony Gold, or they're still in talks, nobody's saying. The developer is supposedly declining to comment whenever asked about the situation. That, combined with the fact that Harmony Gold's reps have pretty much gone silent certainly is certainly cause to suspect that something's afoot. Edited October 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Minmei doll: help me....... Are you blind? The Minmei doll has a huge smile on her face. She is giggling that the Robotech toys have such tiny cockpits. The "Little Focker" from Shadow Chronicles won't even fit into that thing. One last acknowledgment of the RAAAAAGE provoked by the mere suggestion that Kawamori and/or Big West might actually dare to acknowledge Macross II at some point: Anyone got Kawamori's email? Cause until the dude who actually designed this new VF-25 Superpack actually comes out and says its based on the VF-2SS I say we leave the Macross II influence as "plausible" and just admire that the thing looks cool on this HG and Robotech thread at least. If you guys really want to debate this thing for eternity start a "Kawamori love/hate Macross II thread or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Are you blind? The Minmei doll has a huge smile on her face. She is giggling that the Robotech toys have such tiny cockpits. The "Little Focker" from Shadow Chronicles won't even fit into that thing. More likely she's giggling about the overall shitty quality of even the best-made Robotech merch. I've got a few friends who own Masterpiece Collection VF-1s of various colors, and those damn things scream "shoddy construction!"... though not as much as the MPC Alphas. Any clue how they'll finish their cyclone series, since (if memory serves) the Beagle ride armor line got pulled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Eh... no. Valkyrie II, yes. Super Armed Pack... no. Go back and look at the lineart for it, not the goddamn awful toy from the 90's. The Super Armed Pack hugs the fighter's hull closely (except the wings are folded instead of inside the pack) the big honking gun that extends past the canopy, the blocks on the end of the wings, the lack of big, effing backpack boosters. Far more similarities than differences. ok, if you're going to try and draw any comparisons how about you at least compare apples to apples (or line art to animation rendering as the case may be) yeah, I don't see it at all. there's nothing on there that I don't find to be typical SK design elements. the big guns are more a throw back to the original strike pack, the mid-wing nacelles are elements he loves to use (VF-4, VF-14, VA-3, VF-27, a tone of his non-macross stuff). the delta wings of the VF-0D. the only part that hasn't been seen on another VF before are the boosters on the wing tips which look more like throwback to his work on cyber formula. and for the record, the SAP parts don't "hug" the fighter, they hump it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 LOL. Can we all just say both are fugly and move on? Man, I just checked RT.com and MEMO is pointing to a video where Tommy says "Studio Nue has the rights to the story, Tatsunoko has the economic rights to the TV show" as proof that Harmony Gold has rights to the story... sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Man, I just checked RT.com and MEMO is pointing to a video where Tommy says "Studio Nue has the rights to the story, Tatsunoko has the economic rights to the TV show" as proof that Harmony Gold has rights to the story... sigh. It doesn't mean anything if no one can make a production surrounding it. Even more so if the people responsible can only talk about it, but don't take real action to support it. Additionally, the company doesn't have the resources to do anything with whatever MEMO is trying to prove they have by themselves. Hope he and his supporters can wait another year for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyPenguins Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 LOL. Can we all just say both are fugly and move on? Man, I just checked RT.com and MEMO is pointing to a video where Tommy says "Studio Nue has the rights to the story, Tatsunoko has the economic rights to the TV show" as proof that Harmony Gold has rights to the story... sigh. He never gives up does he? damn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Man, I just checked RT.com and MEMO is pointing to a video where Tommy says "Studio Nue has the rights to the story, Tatsunoko has the economic rights to the TV show" as proof that Harmony Gold has rights to the story... sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Man, I just checked RT.com and MEMO is pointing to a video where Tommy says "Studio Nue has the rights to the story, Tatsunoko has the economic rights to the TV show" as proof that Harmony Gold has rights to the story... sigh. That isn't all MEMO was claiming about that video... he was also citing that as "proof" that Tatsunoko, not Studio Nue/Big West, had the rights to the intellectual property of Macross through a very torturous reinterpretation of what Tommy actually said. It doesn't mean anything if no one can make a production surrounding it. Even more so if the people responsible can only talk about it, but don't take real action to support it. Additionally, the company doesn't have the resources to do anything with whatever MEMO is trying to prove they have by themselves. Hope he and his supporters can wait another year for anything. The whole thing is errant nonsense, since it depends entirely on a grammatically-torturous non-literal interpretation of what Tommy actually said. Only someone completely, blindly ignorant could possibly mistake what Tommy is saying for what MEMO and Maverick want him to be saying. Fortunately, there aren't many people gullible enough to believe what Maverick and MEMO are preaching. Considering how they've destroyed their own credibility and essentially committed popular suicide, is it any surprise that the only one left who'll believe them is someone equally deluded like Pizza the Hutt? He never gives up does he? damn... Of course he doesn't... I'd call him a habitual liar, but it doesn't seem that accurate since he actually believes the crap he's spewing is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) Taksraven Edited October 10, 2009 by taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Maybe, for the sake that maybe he doesn't understand what intellectual property means, or merchandise vs. new production or whatnot. Perhaps a good definition should be posted up so that he, or anyone else who doesn't get this simple stuff for some weirdass reason, can have a reference point when they write stuff. I've been pretty good friends w/ Memo for awhile, but at this point, this is one lost battle he's waging, and even if I wanted to, will not jump on the train wreck. Even still, why cite Tommy as proof. I think he's reading way too far into it than need be. At this point, it's not even worth bringing up the lies and misinformation from that site, except for comedic purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moly_Sigang Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 AS I HAVE PROVEN MANNY TIME ALREADY, THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING HARMONY GOLD FROM USING THE MACROSS DESIGNS BECAUSE OF THE CONTRACT BETWEEN HG AND TATSUNOKO. YOU ONLY NEED TO LOOK AT THIS VIDEO WHERE TOMMY YUNE SAYS SO. ONCE AGAIN YOUR ALL WRONG ESPECIALLY YOU SETO!! MEMO1DOMINONE!lolol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Did I hear Tommy Yune correctly? At around 7:10 in the video he talks of 41 illustrations that were considered Studio Nue property because they were made in 1980 and predated the Macross series. Then he says that because Tatsunko produced Macross they were awarded the copyrights of those 41 illustrations and thus they own all the TV and economic rights to Macross. I am thinking those design illustrations he is referring to must be those images "borrowed" for Battle Tech years ago and the images used in the cover artwork for ADV's Macross DVD release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedarkmarine Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 <blah blah> I'm now convinced that you're seriously fanboy blind. You think that the big guns on looks more like than ? And you seriously don't see similarities between wing tip kibble? No, I think the only thing anyone is trying to hump is Kawamori. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanzerfan Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 It's responses like that that reaffirms my view that the whole fandom desperately needs new blood. No more narcissists and elitists, address the piling very serious issues the whole thing is in. You might want to inform people about doug's 300+(!) podcast legacy and what it's been about for years. I mean, have they really not listened to him this whole time? He's insulted these type of people, many times specifically naming them on his show, for the sake of a children's cartoon for a long time now. You forgot to mention the full-blown facists, Einherjar. The fandom needing new blood??? They feed off themselves, trashing their own, probably over some stupid crap like what McKinney novel is best, and where the SDF-2 was located at. I know those problems exist in just about every fan base, but they don't even have a strong fanbase to do that with, and with the way things are going, if they're going to eat their own from within, or make that attempt, there's always a low ground to hit, I guess. I don't know who to blame about the SDF-2 fiasco; The HG writers of the revised script for including it in "To the Stars", or Markalan Jopolin and "Jack McKinney" for setting the two ships back to back (I don't know who did it first, my pick's Jopolin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I don't know who to blame about the SDF-2 fiasco; The HG writers of the revised script for including it in "To the Stars", or Markalan Jopolin and "Jack McKinney" for setting the two ships back to back (I don't know who did it first, my pick's Jopolin). Well, duh. If the RT writers hadn't put it in the script, no one would've had to rationalize it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 So because the SAP has two things at the end of the wings, the Tornado armor is INSPIRED by it? C'mon, now tell me how Robotech influences Macross... that's my next favorite argument. OOh, or tell me how, because the VF-25 pictured is red AND white it must be a rip off of that particular VF-2SS. Many others have pointed out similarities to Gundam designs in Kawamori's work also. So did Gundam rip off MacII? Wait, since MacII was an effort to make Kawamori's designs more futuristic, would he be ripping off a rip off? Obviously, the whole argument is silly and unless you really ARE going to argue that Robotech influenced Macross, it's not really an appropriate thread. Did I hear Tommy Yune correctly? At around 7:10 in the video he talks of 41 illustrations that were considered Studio Nue property because they were made in 1980 and predated the Macross series. Then he says that because Tatsunko produced Macross they were awarded the copyrights of those 41 illustrations and thus they own all the TV and economic rights to Macross. The designs in question (the 41) cover pretty much everything you know and love about the original Macross, the major characters, and the mecha in their various modes. Essentially all those designs belong to Studio Nue (per Tommy in the clip) but since Tatsunoko was the one that made them into a production, Tatsunoko gets a share of any economic benefit derived from those designs. So, HG is set in that their rights to merchandising and distributing Macross are fine but they have no intellectual property rights over the 41 designs identified in the first lawsuit. It's always a muddled topic because he can say "Tatsunoko gave us all the rights" but the implied "to merchandising and distributing the original series" gets dropped off so Memo and others make the jump to mean that Tatsunoko some how magically gets IP rights and also gives them to HG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) People should know better about that video. The panel was in 2004 while Shadow Chronicles was being worked on. The film and their actions afterward shows otherwise about everything he said. If you're going to try to prove a point, use something more recent. A LOT has happened in 5 years to question the accuracy of that panel in whatever way a person wants to take it. He did the same thing using an Alan Letz article that was made in 2002 or something. You forgot to mention the full-blown facists, Einherjar. Is fascism also a psychological disposition? There's no politics there except "fan politics," and they're acting like idiots for a TV show. Edited October 10, 2009 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanzerfan Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) Some people seem to be forgetting a simple point. Macross II was a project to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the Macross phenomenon. Kowamori was most likely busy at the time, so the production crew went on without him. Besides who said that Kowamori actually hated Macross II? Hopefully Seto will stop by to sort this freaking mess out. I was talking about the people who think that Robotech is the bee knees, and anyone who doesn't agree with them should be run off of Robotech.com on a rail. Edited October 10, 2009 by Wanzerfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Man, I just checked RT.com and MEMO is pointing to a video where Tommy says "Studio Nue has the rights to the story, Tatsunoko has the economic rights to the TV show" as proof that Harmony Gold has rights to the story... sigh. YOU GUYS REALLY DENSE!!! "STUDIO NU" NOT COMPANY!!! STUDIO NU NAME OF TOMMY COUSIN!!! STU (LIKE IN STEWART) DIO (BECAUSE HIM ITALIAN) SO MAKE "STUDIO" AND THEN "NU" BECAUSE MOTHER FROM KOREA!!! (OWN ANIMATION FACTORY!!) SO STUDIO NU OWN RIGHT TO STORY AND SINCE STUDIO NU IS PERSON IS COUSIN OF TOMMY THEN HG OWN RIGHTS TO STORY BECAUSE STUDIO NU WHO TOMMY'S COUSIN IS GIVING IT TO THEM!!! HOW MORE MUCH TIMES I MUST EXPLAINING THIS!?!??!?!?! MEMO2034023502 --------- Pete He's baaaaack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Some people seem to be forgetting a simple point. Macross II was a project to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the Macross phenomenon. Kowamori was most likely busy at the time, so the production crew went on without him. Besides who said that Kowamori actually hated Macross II? Hopefully Seto will stop by to sort this freaking mess out. No. Just no. Kawamori was on record saying he didn't want to do a Macross sequel after Flashback 2012, and it wasn't until Macross Plus a year or so later that he changed his mind. Not just Kawamori, but all of Studio Nue were not involved in Macross II. And no one said Kawamori hated Macross II, but he did say (quite a ways back) that he never watched it. All of this is verifiable through articles from the time that were in Animag and Animerica, and I thought it was all common knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) I don't see anything wrong with applying stuff from Mac II to the main series. While he didn't make the show, it's still fair game since it will always be attributed to it. It's a better situation than what people want Robotech to be doing. I was talking about the people who think that Robotech is the bee knees, and anyone who doesn't agree with them should be run off of Robotech.com on a rail. Some of that is in narcissism already. Edited October 10, 2009 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 The designs in question (the 41) cover pretty much everything you know and love about the original Macross, the major characters, and the mecha in their various modes. Essentially all those designs belong to Studio Nue (per Tommy in the clip) but since Tatsunoko was the one that made them into a production, Tatsunoko gets a share of any economic benefit derived from those designs. So, HG is set in that their rights to merchandising and distributing Macross are fine but they have no intellectual property rights over the 41 designs identified in the first lawsuit. It's always a muddled topic because he can say "Tatsunoko gave us all the rights" but the implied "to merchandising and distributing the original series" gets dropped off so Memo and others make the jump to mean that Tatsunoko some how magically gets IP rights and also gives them to HG. I didn't think these 41 illustions were the actual Macross designs until I did some digging. I did a google search to try to find answers and I ended up stumbling upon "Harmony Gold V. FASA." It looks like you are right and that the 41 are the Macross designs and not merely illustrians. Defendants argue that plaintiffs lack standing to maintain an action for copyright infringement. This argument is two-fold. First, FASA contends that it acquired the rights to certain Macross artwork from TCI. Second, defendants assert: [Harmony Gold's] Original License specifically acknowledges the existence of Macross robot toys and plastic model kits produced in Japan for worldwide export and unequivocally states that these items "shall be excluded from the rights granted [Harmony Gold] under this Agreement." Thus, any rights FASA acquired with respect to the plastic model kits and artwork it obtained through Twentieth Century Imports are explicitly excluded from the scope of Harmony Gold's license agreement. Harmony Gold and its licensee Playmates Toys, therefore have no standing to challenge FASA's use of these designs. We reject this argument on two grounds. First, and most importantly, Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko are joint owners of the copyrights to the Macross [*7] designs in the United States. "The legal or beneficial owner of an exclusive right under a copyright is entitled... to institute an action for any infringement of that particular right committed while he or she is the owner of it." 17 U.S.C. § 501(b). Contrary to defendants' assertions, plaintiffs do not rely on the rights to Japanese model kits in bringing this suit. Rather, plaintiffs dispute FASA's use of the Macross designs for its entire "Battletech" product line. Because plaintiffs rely on their exclusive rights in the copyrights to the Macross designs, we find that plaintiffs have standing to bring this suit for copyright infringement. Second, we cannot determine FASA's rights to the Macross designs without considering material outside the pleadings. Whether FASA obtained any rights to the Macross designs from TCI involves factual determinations not properly decided in a motion for judgment on the pleadings. What still gets me though is if the intellectual property allowing derivative use is not attached to the 41 designs that Tatsunko apparently owns the copyright on how does Big West/Studio Nue prove that they still the sole intellectual property owners of the 41 Macross designs in the first place? Does Tatsunko literally own the drawings themselves or do they just have a document stating that they are entitled to the copyrights cause they used the drawings to produce Macross in 1982? Oh yeah and for anyone interested the link for Harmony Gold V. FASA is http://alex.kaempen.org/harmony_gold_v._fasa.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) I'm now convinced that you're seriously fanboy blind. And you seriously don't see similarities between wing tip kibble? No, I think the only thing anyone is trying to hump is Kawamori. Holly sh*t on a stick!!! you're so right, having sh*t on it's wingtips TOTALLY makes it a rip off of the VF-2SS! The VF-2SS's wingtip kibble is completely unique and hasn't been done all over scifi for decades. DAMN SK for ripping off Ohata's BRILLIANT innovation. [/sarcasm] :edit: This really IS related to Robotech by the way. This argument is pointless and totally irrelevant but it just wont go away, just like Robotech! Edited October 10, 2009 by anime52k8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedarkmarine Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Holly sh*t on a stick!!! you're so right, having sh*t on it's wingtips TOTALLY makes it a rip off of the VF-2SS! The VF-2SS's wingtip kibble is completely unique and hasn't been done all over scifi for decades. DAMN SK for ripping off Ohata's BRILLIANT innovation. [/sarcasm] :edit: This really IS related to Robotech by the way. This argument is pointless and totally irrelevant but it just wont go away, just like Robotech! Reading comprehension fail? I never said anything about ripping off or one based upon another. I'm saying the tornado pack looks a hell of a lot more similar to the SAP than anything you're trying to convince yourself is seeing. This also really IS related to Robotech by the way. This response is for a post that is totally bind by fanboyism, just like Robotech fanboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 This argument is pointless and totally irrelevant but it just wont go away, just like Robotech! Taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 What still gets me though is if the intellectual property allowing derivative use is not attached to the 41 designs that Tatsunko apparently owns the copyright on how does Big West/Studio Nue prove that they still the sole intellectual property owners of the 41 Macross designs in the first place? Does Tatsunko literally own the drawings themselves or do they just have a document stating that they are entitled to the copyrights cause they used the drawings to produce Macross in 1982? That's what the 2002 and 2003 court rulings were all about. Essentially, how it shakes out is that since Studio Nue did the creative work for the original Macross series, under the sponsorship of Big West, and prior to Tatsunoko's involvement in the production of the series, Big West/Studio Nue retain the exclusive rights to that intellectual property. Tatsunoko has no legal claim on it because they neither created it nor funded its creation. That's what the 2002 ruling was. Later, the courts decided that since Tatsunoko had done/coordinated the actual animation based on Studio Nue/Big West's intellectual property, Tasunoko owned the copyright on the footage itself, but that the copyrights on the intellectual property of the series (the story, music, characters, mecha, etc.) were separate, and that Tatsunoko has the economic rights that are associated with being the maker of the series, but not the moral/personal rights associated with being its author. That's what the 2003 ruling was. If you want it in plain english, what the courts ruled really didn't change anything... Tatsunoko owns the animation they produced, but Big West/Studio Nue own the intellectual property used in its creation. For all practical purposes, Tatsunoko is considered to have used that copyrighted intellectual property with permission when they animated the original series and DYRL, but they don't own it or have any right to use it without Big West/Studio Nue's consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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