YF-29 (canon, in-series info)

[Black Valkyrie]

The blue YF-29 looks way too cool.

[raptormesh]

Picked up the standard edition 1/100 as both the Sheryl and Ranka designs were too busy. Didn't really like the design till I watched the movie. Looks much better in motion!

As for the fast packs:

At the last battle, the Durandal had two wingtip packs that could detach and fire missiles independently. Correct me if I'm wrong though but that was what it looked like, and was really awesome.

[twich]

Has anyone seen the Macross Compendium Stats for the YF-29? It seems that the main engines are capable of 2100 KN of thrust, while the wingtip engines have 1900KN of thrust. I am very impressed with the power of this Valk, must need all that to power all the onboard weapon systems.

Twich

[charger69]

From Cybergundam

YF-29 with Super Parts

Edited March 12, 2011 by charger69

[Hiryu]

not enough pylons on the wings i think...

[anime52k8]

not enough pylons on the wings i think...

yeah, 4 nacelles and not a single pylon in sight. what is up with that.

Edited March 15, 2011 by anime52k8

[sketchley]

YF-29 specifications & some scanlations from Great Mechanics.DX #16

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2694.msg41751#msg41751

[twich]

I wonder how the wing engines swivel, does the outer wing swivel as well. I find it interesting that the VF-27 with the new fast packs is almost as powerful as the YF-29. Can't wait to see these VF's in action!

Twich

[azrael]

I wonder how the wing engines swivel, does the outer wing swivel as well.

"swivel" may not necessarily equal "rotate". Since it is based off the Tornado pack, the wing-mounted engines may rotate just like the Tornado pack's engine pods.

[Graham]

YF-29 specifications & some scanlations from Great Mechanics.DX #16

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2694.msg41751#msg41751

The specifications don't seem to mention the YF-29's twin dorsal mounted beam guns, unless they are the ones refered to in the translation as "Fold-wave Projector System".

Graham

[Graham]

I still want to know in the movie, whether while in fighter mode if the YF-29's twin beam cannons (the ones mounted between the tails in fighter mode), can rise up and swivel to shoot at targets in different directions, like the Tornado Pack's guns? Or are they fixed forward firing only in fighter mode? If not, it would seem to be a step backwards from the Tornado Pack!

And yes, I realise they can likely swivel to point in different dirrections in battroid mode, but I am specifically asking about fighter mode, for those that have seen the movie.

Certainly, in the PSP MTF game, having the Tornado Pack's twin beam cannons being able to shoot at targets in all directions while in fighter mode is a huge advantage, so it would seem strange if the YF-29 deleated that capability in fighter mode.

Graham

[raptormesh]

The specifications don't seem to mention the YF-29's twin dorsal mounted beam guns, unless they are the ones refered to in the translation as "Fold-wave Projector System".

Graham

The fold system refers to the outboard nacelles(the fast packs) I reckon. It contains missiles and a telescoping rod with unfolding crystals at the end.

Also if my memory serves me well, the dorsal beam guns do swivel in fighter mode in the movie.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though, you researchin' folks.

[Graham]

I wonder how the wing engines swivel, does the outer wing swivel as well. I

From the latest DX toy pics in the new May 2011 issue of Dengeki Hobby magazine (see the DX YF-29 toy thread for the scan), it is confirmed that the wing-mounted engines can swivel ala the Tornado pack. The wing tips however, do not appear to be able to swivel, so the wing tips will point in whatever direction the engine pods are pointing.

It really seems like Kawamori did a good job of integrating the functions and performance of the Tornado Pack into the YF-29 - swivelling engines for greater manuverability, twin beam gun turret that can fire at tarrgets all around the Valk in all three modes, and large micro-mssile capacity.

While I'm still not 100% sold on the looks, I understand the design justification behind it much better now.

Graham

[Graham]

Still wondering why Kawamori designed the wing-mounted engines, with the protroding spike at the front-side position, rather than at the 12 o'Clock position. As somebody else mentiones, wouldn't the spikes block airflow to the engines during turns?

And I still want to know what is the purpose of the flower petal/propeller looking thingies on the super parts?

Graham

[azrael]

Still wondering why Kawamori designed the wing-mounted engines, with the protroding spike at the front-side position, rather than at the 12 o'Clock position. As somebody else mentiones, wouldn't the spikes block airflow to the engines during turns?

Rule of cool?

And I still want to know what is the purpose of the flower petal/propeller looking thingies on the super parts?

Those are suppose to be fold-wave projectors.

[David Hingtgen]

Planes alter pitch far more often than they yaw, and to a much greater degree. Even a steeply banked turn is mostly a pitch-alteration, airflow-wise. On the sides is much better than on top or bottom.

20+ alpha is far, far more common than 20+ beta.

[Graham]

Planes alter pitch far more often than they yaw, and to a much greater degree. Even a steeply banked turn is mostly a pitch-alteration, airflow-wise. On the sides is much better than on top or bottom.

20+ alpha is far, far more common than 20+ beta.

Thanks David. Nice to know that Kawamori didn't screw up then.

Graham

Those are suppose to be fold-wave projectors.

Yes, but what exactly does a Fold-Wave Projector do?

Well, I'm guessing project fold waves ..........but what does that mean from a practical effect standpoint?

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

Or a simpler way---look at how many fighter jets have their intakes on the sides of the fuselage. An F-4 Phantom is a good example. One side of the intake is permanently "blocked" by the fuselage.

[Vic Mancini]

Still wondering why Kawamori designed the wing-mounted engines, with the protroding spike at the front-side position, rather than at the 12 o'Clock position. As somebody else mentiones, wouldn't the spikes block airflow to the engines during turns?

I think the answer to that is actually a lot more simple than anything that has to do with airflow or aerodynamics. The reason being that the wings fold up/back at a 90 degree angle when in battroid. Those mid-wing mounted engines become the closest thing to a "backback", and the "spikes" are at 12 o'clock in that configuration.

[dialNforNinja]

Yes, but what exactly does a Fold-Wave Projector do?

Well, I'm guessing project fold waves ..........but what does that mean from a practical effect standpoint?

Graham

Judging by what they use the terminology for in the series and first movie, it's just the new name for a Sound Energy System, except the performer doesn't have to be aboard. Which is probably a good thing - imagine trying to keep the breath control to sing under rapidly changing G-loading, even without the "guitar stick controls" issue of Sound Force designs.

- dNN

[ChronoReverse]

I still want to know in the movie, whether while in fighter mode if the YF-29's twin beam cannons (the ones mounted between the tails in fighter mode), can rise up and swivel to shoot at targets in different directions, like the Tornado Pack's guns? Or are they fixed forward firing only in fighter mode? If not, it would seem to be a step backwards from the Tornado Pack!

Didn't Alto use them while in Fighter mode to shoot backwards or am I remembering wrong here?

Still not a huge fan of the YF-29 design because it's too busy visually (then again I didn't like the Tornado packs for the same reason). I'm probably letting my favor towards the YF-19 design cloud my eyes though (I also didn't like the space variants of the VF-19).

The Battroid mode is boss though.

Edited March 30, 2012 by ChronoReverse

[Kelsain]

If I recall, the Sound Energy system really didn't *require* the performer to be in the cockpit. Didn't it transmit the energy through fold space to a converter on the M7, which was then directed back to the fighter?

I got the impression that the fold wave projectors were designed just to interfere with the vajra's communications. However, with the proximity of 2 infected pop stars and Alto's connection to them & his plane, the system served as a convenient conduit for their song & message.

(null)

Edited April 1, 2012 by Kelsain

[Valkyrie Driver]

I've been disappointed in the Mecha designs from Macross lately. The VF-25 grew on me, it just didn't look as clean as previous designs. My favorites are still the range from Zero to M7. This whole space fighter stuff, kinda gets boring. I took a nice little hiatus from Macross for a while, to pursue other hobbies, and this is what I come back to? This thing is bulbous and unattractive, and it looks like the YF-19 and VF-25 had a chubby love child. There have been many Aircraft with the mid wing engine nacelles and most of them were prone to engine issues. Also, four high output engines, soon we're going to have full on inertial dampeners (which the VF-25 has already I just found out). Come on, this is silly, is Kawamori really even designing these things anymore?

As for Air Combat, staying above and behind the enemy is for leading the target, and makes it easier to drop the gunsight on him. It is also advised to attack the underside of your enemy because it is generally not as well defended. I never really liked the rear facing laser idea, because it required more systems. (Systems which would already be present in a VF I suppose.) It also violates the 5th rule of the Dicta Boelcke, In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind. As for turning and burning, that's a defensive tactic, fighter pilots don't like to attack from a defensive position, because it is disadvantageous. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking, that's rule number one of the Dicta Boelcke. There is a ton of subject matter on Air combat, I suggest reading the Dicta Boelcke, and Douhet's book, The Command of The Air, you also may wish to read John Boyd's works as well.

[anime52k8]

There have been many Aircraft with the mid wing engine nacelles and most of them were prone to engine issues. Also, four high output engines, soon we're going to have full on inertial dampeners (which the VF-25 has already I just found out). Come on, this is silly, is Kawamori really even designing these things anymore?

mid-wing engine Nacelles are sexy, and that's all that matters when you're talking about giant transforming robots.

As for Air Combat, staying above and behind the enemy is for leading the target, and makes it easier to drop the gunsight on him. It is also advised to attack the underside of your enemy because it is generally not as well defended. I never really liked the rear facing laser idea, because it required more systems. (Systems which would already be present in a VF I suppose.) It also violates the 5th rule of the Dicta Boelcke, In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind. As for turning and burning, that's a defensive tactic, fighter pilots don't like to attack from a defensive position, because it is disadvantageous. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking, that's rule number one of the Dicta Boelcke. There is a ton of subject matter on Air combat, I suggest reading the Dicta Boelcke, and Douhet's book, The Command of The Air, you also may wish to read John Boyd's works as well.

I'm pretty sure that in a world where jets turn into giant robots and fly around in space completely deifying basic physics; real world fighter tactics are completely out the window. Also; Missile spam, lasers everywhere and fisticuffs with giant aliens is simply cooler than anything that goes on in real world fighter combat.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Touche. But they don't defy physics. They don't change their mass, and even with suspension of disbelief, it is entirely possible, given the exotic materials that variable fighters are made from. Also, there is a fair amount of straight fighter combat in the franchise, maybe not as much since frontier came out, but frontier tried to be like gundam seed. Where do the mid wing nacelles end up in battroid mode? Do all the modes look clean? No, the Battroid has excessive wing kibble on the back, and it just hangs everywhere, and looks like a gen 1 transformer. I don't care for that, and I know there are a bunch of other folks who feel the same way. I'm of the opinion that sleek is sexy, and if sexy is what matters in giant robots, then they should be sleek.

Also, real world fighter tactics translate to Macross just fine, it's all about aggression and cunning, outwitting your opponent and then crushing them, same as war has been for thousands of years. It's the warrior attitude, you never want your enemy behind you, you want him where you can see and kill him. That's all I'm getting at really, I understand why the head lasers ended up in the dorsal position and aimed to the rear, the designs had to transform, so you make it transform however you can without parts just sprouting from nothing.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Valkyrie Driver

[Raptor One]

mid-wing engine Nacelles are sexy, and that's all that matters when you're talking about giant transforming robots.

Overrated.

Touche. But they don't defy physics. They don't change their mass, and even with suspension of disbelief, it is entirely possible, given the exotic materials that variable fighters are made from. Also, there is a fair amount of straight fighter combat in the franchise, maybe not as much since frontier came out, but frontier tried to be like gundam seed. Where do the mid wing nacelles end up in battroid mode? Do all the modes look clean? No, the Battroid has excessive wing kibble on the back, and it just hangs everywhere, and looks like a gen 1 transformer. I don't care for that, and I know there are a bunch of other folks who feel the same way. I'm of the opinion that sleek is sexy, and if sexy is what matters in giant robots, then they should be sleek.

I have to agree with your thoughts on the 29. I'm not really a fan of the design, and most people on these forums weren't when it was first revealed. I do like it better than I did before though, but it's still not on my favourites list. It's way too busy, especially in battroid mode, and especially with Fast Packs lol.