KingNor Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 .... heat would not be an issue, Roy would have been ripped in half. i can go with the story that he wasn't acutally hit by the enemy round itself and more likely hit by tiny chunks of his own plane dislodged by the round. my issue isn't that he was wounded in his plane and died later from loss of blood, my problem is the way they handled it. having him being more attentive to his girlfriend (he's supposedly trying so hard to be with) would have made way way more sence than him casually sitting on the couch absentmindedly strumming a guitar, waiting for some food. (when people are sick/wounded don't they usually refuse food anyway?) i'm just sayin it was bad storytelling, it left so many blatant questions that i think even the casual viewer is left asking about plot holes rather than just takeing in the moment. maybe i'm wrong. i guess i'm wrong since i seem to one of the very few who thinks the scene could have been improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Still it kinda bothers me that he had 3 holes in his back and no one notices a blood trail? With 3 big holes in your back, you are bleeding like stuck pig. I mean those tech guys saw it in the cockpit. The spalling idea I can deal with. That is what happens when a round penetrates armor in tanks. Also wouldnt rounds those big shatter the cockpit canopy? I agree that somethings here did not make sense. Regardless, I thought it was the adrenalin rush that kept you going despite you got hit by a bullet. Wouldn't it be where his body would go into shock after he landed his plane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powered Convoy Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Best Death in Macross by far. I couldn't believe it when I saw him die in Robotech (watched it in the early 90s, we didn't have cable when it was on). I sat there with my mouth wide open! Just thinking about it now makes me so sad. It is definetly one of the best death scenes I've seen in any TV/Film. It's just so good, and they way he doesn't die in battle but as a result of the battle. And it's even better in the original Macross (as oppossed to Robotech) because you see him on the floor, and the way the guitar strums as he falls. On the other hand I think his death in DYRL is much worse. Though I can see the point of it, I feel he kind of goes out like a chump fighting only one Zentraedi. If Roy were to go out fighting it should be up against a whole bunch of Zentraedi Warriors in an all out blaze of glory. Though I much rather prefer the TV death to one like that too. I also think Kakizaki's death in the TV show is better too. Though I love how Millia blows him away in DYRL, it's even better that in the TV show when the SDF-1 malfunctions destroying many of the pilots. The look of fear on his face, and the sorrow from his comrades that were able to escape. You have to feel bad for Kakizaki, not being as good as a pilot as Hikaru and Max, or as popular with the ladies, killed by the very thing he was trying to protect. Best Deaths Ever! It's so sad and beautiful it makes me want to cry. And the episodes are one after another! *cries* "Don't Look at Me!" And the part where after both Roy and Kakizaki have died and Minmay calls Hikaru and she tells him how rough she's had it lately and she has no idea what he's been through! She has no idea! *cries some more* And then he just stops listening and gently hangs up the phone! Best scene ever! Randy *cries* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Still it kinda bothers me that he had 3 holes in his back and no one notices a blood trail? With 3 big holes in your back, you are bleeding like stuck pig. I mean those tech guys saw it in the cockpit. The spalling idea I can deal with. That is what happens when a round penetrates armor in tanks. Also wouldnt rounds those big shatter the cockpit canopy? I agree that somethings here did not make sense. Regardless, I thought it was the adrenalin rush that kept you going despite you got hit by a bullet. Wouldn't it be where his body would go into shock after he landed his plane? Its da lasers....they be so hot that they burn off all the tissue and stopped the external bleeding, but not the internal ones. But then again, I don't think they gave it much thought. Thumbs up to melodramatic death scene. But , i'd still prefer him to die in a "blaze of glory" like powered convoy said. One dude against impossible odds....hold the line to save his comrades....oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Best death ever? Hardly. I don't know about most of you guys, but for me, the first time I saw this was as Robotech, and as a young boy. Now, this was back when most of the cartoons on TV were American, with just a sprinkle of Japanese shows (the complete opposite of today, I've noticed). In American cartoons, people didn't die (Well, in the movies, maybe... Optimus' death... I cried in the theater...). So, to see a main character go, that was really something. As an adult, I've see countless more death scenes (and probably half of them from Gundam... ). And while Roy's death was tragic, it lacks the power of some other death scenese I've seen. In the movie, it was even worse. At least in the TV series, it was one of those "war is pointless and tragic" deaths. In the movie, it became the cliche "die so the main character can live" deaths. My call for best death? *SPOILERS* Uso's mom, in V Gundam. Kinda similar to Z Gundam, to Camille's mom's death, sure, but being that Uso was younger, and his mom got crushed by a freaking battleship... that's probably a bit more traumatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JValk Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 i remember 2 big cartoon deaths when i was a kid - roy's and mark venture's (in star blazers) - but even mark made it back through a supernatural IV with an alien babe (tho he and the rest of the crew weren't so lucky in the movie version) - and you know, optimus prime doesn't count - he's a robot. so yes roy wins for most shocking cartoon moment for moi. (i didn't follow gi joe so duke biting the dust is a non-factor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 best death ever? thorin in the hobbit what i liked about roy dieing is he was clearly the "coolest" character in the show, if he can die, hell anyone can! made the fight sequencees actually dangerous. in thundercats/gijoe/transformers etc, you knew no one was gonna die, it was all about who would get knocked unconsious or who would get tied up. this is what made robotech(macross saga) stand out to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 in thundercats/gijoe/transformers etc, you knew no one was gonna die, it was all about who would get knocked unconsious or who would get tied up. Jaga died... first ep. Yeah I know it doesn't count... <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 in thundercats/gijoe/transformers etc, you knew no one was gonna die, it was all about who would get knocked unconsious or who would get tied up. Jaga died... first ep. Yeah I know it doesn't count... Who is that? What show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 i remember 2 big cartoon deaths when i was a kid - roy's and mark venture's (in star blazers) - but even mark made it back through a supernatural IV with an alien babe (tho he and the rest of the crew weren't so lucky in the movie version) - and you know, optimus prime doesn't count - he's a robot. so yes roy wins for most shocking cartoon moment for moi. (i didn't follow gi joe so duke biting the dust is a non-factor) That's my point. We'd never seen anything like it, so it was memorable to us as kids. But lots of things were memorable to me as a kid, and not all of them are as good as I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 in thundercats/gijoe/transformers etc, you knew no one was gonna die, it was all about who would get knocked unconsious or who would get tied up. Jaga died... first ep. Yeah I know it doesn't count... Who is that? What show? Jaga was in ThunderCats. he died in first episode only to become an Obi-Wan type character. That was the lamest thing about TC, it derived a couple of things from Star Wars. Like an ewok village except they were half robot teddy bears. The coolest thing was Lion-O finding a village full of women that lived up in trees. I mean talk about a nice view from below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbs357 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 best death ever? thorin in the hobbit OMG!?!? You just ruined the book for me! D= I had just gotten to where Bilbo entered that long shaft thing... /me cries Thorin... But uh... Well, Roy was really playing that guitar...I saw a C cord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel's Fury Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 in thundercats/gijoe/transformers etc, you knew no one was gonna die, it was all about who would get knocked unconsious or who would get tied up. Jaga died... first ep. Yeah I know it doesn't count... Who is that? What show? Jaga was in ThunderCats. he died in first episode only to become an Obi-Wan type character. That was the lamest thing about TC, it derived a couple of things from Star Wars. Like an ewok village except they were half robot teddy bears. The coolest thing was Lion-O finding a village full of women that lived up in trees. I mean talk about a nice view from below. It's been a long time since I last remembered ThunderCats. Btw, priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 in thundercats/gijoe/transformers etc, you knew no one was gonna die, it was all about who would get knocked unconsious or who would get tied up. Jaga died... first ep. Yeah I know it doesn't count... Who is that? What show? Jaga was in ThunderCats. he died in first episode only to become an Obi-Wan type character. That was the lamest thing about TC, it derived a couple of things from Star Wars. Like an ewok village except they were half robot teddy bears. The coolest thing was Lion-O finding a village full of women that lived up in trees. I mean talk about a nice view from below. LOL, how do you remember that? I always thought that show was so pathetically lame... Lion-O was a wannabe Conan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southcross Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 (edited) Momorable death huh? I'd have to say Roy's Death is the first one on my mind. I grew up in the Robotech generation, I really wish they didn't edit out the true Macross scenes. I saw the bloody cockpit in a clip (I think from Robotech.com), it was nothing horrid. I really think they made some poor descisions when to took out some of the scenes. I agree with the "Robotech" is not Macross arguement, I am a fan of both as seperate enteties. Then Duke's death in GI Joe the Movie (now its has to be 10-15 years sinse I have seen the move so I don't remember all the details). I too also think of Optimus's Death, when I first saw him die and fade to a lifeless grey mass, it just made me go "WOW!" Also the first time I heard "$hit" said in anime/cartoon. Edited January 29, 2004 by Southcross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryHolmes Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Optimus biting in TF: M is the singular moment in cartoons that I saw the main character die. That's something that didn't happen much even in the life-action movies, so that made it doubly-hard to swallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southcross Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Well in GiJoe the Movie, can't get much more of a "main" character than Duke. Both movies came out pretty close together, but if memory recalls TF came out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryHolmes Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I've never seen GI Joe the Movie, nor do I plan on it. I tried to watch it and gave up twenty minutes into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 in thundercats/gijoe/transformers etc, you knew no one was gonna die, it was all about who would get knocked unconsious or who would get tied up. Jaga died... first ep. Yeah I know it doesn't count... Who is that? What show? Jaga was in ThunderCats. he died in first episode only to become an Obi-Wan type character. That was the lamest thing about TC, it derived a couple of things from Star Wars. Like an ewok village except they were half robot teddy bears. The coolest thing was Lion-O finding a village full of women that lived up in trees. I mean talk about a nice view from below. LOL, how do you remember that? I always thought that show was so pathetically lame... Lion-O was a wannabe Conan. Oh man... I LOVE the Thundercats! No man... He-Man was a wanna-be Conan. Lion-O was da man... er cat... whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Lion-O is so not, "the man"... in fact, he's only a few steps from Broadway, if you know what I'm saying. He's got the queer eye. Either way, Roy's death in Robotech (yeah, yeah, well, that's what show I saw when I was 12) was unheard of. GI Joe and the Transformers had done no death, and both cartoon showed the good guys shooting 800 lasers per minute against the bad guys and vice versa... but no one was hardly even wounded.... ever. Until Roy and that C Chord and the Pineapple Salad. Circle of Life, big brother. Circle of Life. It was a big moment for this young lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Lion-O is so not, "the man"... in fact, he's only a few steps from Broadway, if you know what I'm saying. He's got the queer eye. hmmm... this coming from a guy that has Mrs, Garret andthe girls as his av... <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 ...Then Duke's death in GI Joe the Movie (now its has to be 10-15 years sinse I have seen the move so I don't remember all the details). He didn't die. He was in a coma, then he came out of it at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 ...Oh man... I LOVE the Thundercats! No man... He-Man was a wanna-be Conan. Lion-O was da man... er cat... whatever... I agree, with He-Man being a wannabe also, infact the dynamic between Skeletor and He-Man was comparable to Conan and Thulsa Doom. I hate to make that comparison though, nothing compares to Conan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 (edited) About American cartoons and nobody dying. This pissed me off when I was a kid. I used to watch those parachutes pop out of every damn plane that was shot down in GI Joe. I can remember watching Transformers and GI Joe. . . and just thinking: "What's the point, nobody ever dies and they'll just fight again tomorrow." Then you contrast that with Macross (then, Robotech). . . and Roy dies. . . then "Ben". . . Finally, the whole freakin' planet "dies." When people would ask me about Robotech and why I liked it so much since it was "just a cartoon" . . . even after I entered my teens, I'd usually say something like: "Dude, this is not just a cartoon. I mean, this isn't Disney, or fluffly bunny stuff. The entire planet gets blown to hell with everyone on it!" As for Roy's death being confusing. . . I just don't see it. Even as a kid, it was abundantly clear to me that he died from loss of blood (and now, possibly shock). And, for me, the feeling of "Why didn't he go to the hospital?!?" or "Why didn't anyone notice!?!" just adds to the tragedy of it. All the best, tragic events in fiction are those that could have been prevented if only you had been there and done things differently! As for sitting there, strumming a guitar while spending time with the woman you love being an odd thing to rush away to for your last few minutes of life. Well, maybe it's because I'm not a raging-hormone teenager (or even lower-twenties) guy anymore. . . but I can't think of a nicer way to end a life. . . given the circumstances (it's not like he could take her to Hawaii or anything). Plus, I think it might be a bit cruel of him to flop over dead on her while. . .taking care of business. H Edited February 1, 2004 by Hurin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Duke did die. After the public out cry on Optimus Prime death they included a voice over that said Duke was alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I'd wager that Quadran Rau rounds, even after piercing through the Valkyrie's hull, would still come in hot enough to cotterize an entry wound. Does anyone know how big those Q-Rau rounds are? I think the rounds would be hot enough, I have a feeling the rounds are as long as a baseball bat and as fat as a coffee can, heat would not be an issue, Roy would have been ripped in half. The chest cannons are 79mm and fire explosive shells, the forearm guns are rapid-fire particle beam cannons. As best I can tell by watching the scene, it looks like a laser volley from a trio of Gnerls is what hits his plane, so I guess it could have been either shrapnel or a degraded/deflected beam. I agree that Roy didn't know how bad he was hurt and probably just thought it was a few scratches he could shrug off. The scene gets me every time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichterX Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 His death in TV serie was lame... it seems Mr. Focker doesn't like emergency rooms, probably that is why he had time to fly Aries to an Island instead of taking her to the Asuka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 (edited) I think the reason roy's death was so memorable to me wasn't because death was uncommon, (right from the start you know that in war people are going to be killed, the first episodes shows people falling from buildings) but moreso that once this main character died, it was up to Hikaru to take his place and "be Roy". And he's like the guy who introduces the OT to hikaru and acts as an older bro so there's this huge "WTF?? you can't just kill the hero like that because he's like one of the main characters and heroes. His death would be the equivalent of han solo being shot down by a random storm trooper or something and not cunning enough to escape.". Kakizaki I can accept because he is always needing help but not the "hero". Because he is so confident in himself (boasting about his shooting 108 enemy planes) and how he is there from the beginning of the series, you wouldn't suspect that he would die. (sort of like expecting global or misa to be killed, or Dyson in macross plus) I guess you could say that because his death wasn't a cliche death*, it was all the more shocking. *ie hero tells his war buddy about how beautiful his girlfriend is, showing them a picture and everything, and how he cant wait to get back home after this final battle, ......before actually dying in the last battle and we the audience groan (and laugh) about how predicitable his death was. *cue* a scene of friend of war buddy crying about his death and keeping something to give to his GF back home as a memory. Rule no.1: don't show me your picture of you GF damnnit!!! It's a huge sign that you are gonna die. I agree that roy's death wasn't handled well either. Almost too sudden, as if they didn't have any use for roy once the focus was on Hikaru + buddies and the love triangle. Somebody just decides: "hey why not kill roy, and give his plane to Hikaru so he can be the skull leader?" At least we see Roy coming to the understanding in mac 0 that time with each person is precious and that he is not pro-war or "proud to be a killer" as we are led to believe (ep 1 descibing how many kills he earned and how he was "just doing his job") but actually hates war and got only involved when a friend died. (is it mentioned who this "micheal" guy is?) Like Hikaru, he was drawn into it and thier skills were valuable. Edited March 12, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSpec Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 Keep it up Low Viz. Always enjoy reading your detailed posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 *ie hero tells his war buddy about how beautiful his girlfriend is, showing them a picture and everything, and how he cant wait to get back home after this final battle, ......before actually dying in the last battle and we the audience groan (and laugh) about how predicitable his death was. *cue* a scene of friend of war buddy crying about his death and keeping something to give to his GF back home as a memory. Rule no.1: don't show me your picture of you GF damnnit!!! It's a huge sign that you are gonna die. Like Physica in Macross7. Hehe, what a crappy death. The "shock" scene came after though, when Gamlin went over to tell his wife... I wasn't expecting that outcome. That scene, in contrast, was done well, and kind of legitimizes the "build up" to the death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentrandude Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I'd wager that Quadran Rau rounds, even after piercing through the Valkyrie's hull, would still come in hot enough to cotterize an entry wound. Does anyone know how big those Q-Rau rounds are? I think the rounds would be hot enough, I have a feeling the rounds are as long as a baseball bat and as fat as a coffee can, heat would not be an issue, Roy would have been ripped in half. The chest cannons are 79mm and fire explosive shells, the forearm guns are rapid-fire particle beam cannons. As best I can tell by watching the scene, it looks like a laser volley from a trio of Gnerls is what hits his plane, so I guess it could have been either shrapnel or a degraded/deflected beam. I agree that Roy didn't know how bad he was hurt and probably just thought it was a few scratches he could shrug off. The scene gets me every time though. we had a silimar discussion with one of kurt's eariler battle damaged models. Basicly we came up with its not the actual ordinace that killed him but secondary materials (fragments of his plane and cockpit) that hit his sweet spot. much like old tanks where fragments of the inner structure/armor will bounce everywhere after taking a good hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Duke did die. After the public out cry on Optimus Prime death they included a voice over that said Duke was alive. Hence the return of Optimus Prime in the TV series. I just basically disavowed the movie and the TV episode afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Roy dies!? Aww.........sh*t, haven't you guys ever heard of spoiler warnings? Sorry, couldn't resist. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Roy dies!? Aww.........sh*t, haven't you guys ever heard of spoiler warnings? Sorry, couldn't resist. Graham It think it happened right after he finds out Vader is his father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Roy dies!? Aww.........sh*t, haven't you guys ever heard of spoiler warnings?       Sorry, couldn't resist. Graham It think it happened right after he finds out Vader is his father. Oh? I thought it happened after he found out Leia was his sister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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