The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, Scyla said:

I think the biggest flaw is that Hasbro/Takara (and this is an assumption on my part) are using the same manufacturing resources for their collector lines (MP/MPG/Haslab) and their $4.99 soap bottle toys. 

If they design a toy that requires some sort of finesse in production (tight tolerance, crisp paint application, sensible material choices ) their manufacturing resources have trouble building them properly and implement proper QC processes.

I have experienced many toy lines from different manufacturers and Takara products have the shoddiest quality of them all. They have many of the issues mass produced toys for the retail market have. Which is not that big of an issue when it is a $20 toy for a young child that will break it eventually but a big deal if you spend $300 on an end all be all collector piece.

What is the saving grace is that their engineers are able to design a transformation that is fun, engaging and rock solid. Something that Bandai and Sentinel fail at more often than not.

I'm not familiar with the manufacturing processes short of the need for molds and folks to assemble the toys from them. I haven't bought a Masterpiece toy since the release of MP Skids a few years ago, so I can't speak to the current quality of said toys. I predominantly focus on the main line stuff while buying the odd Earthspark toy that tickles my fancy. Having bought hundreds of Transformers toys at this point, I've seen quality go down since the early two-thousands, around 2007, when Classics, the first Bayformers, Animated, and Prime were all coming out, a time I characterize as a golden era of Transformers toys- priced well, with generally more complexity and parts count per size class, far fewer gaps and waffles, and more paint apps make those toys stand out still as some of their highest quality output on the whole. The only real advancement we've seen since is the inclusion of ankle rockers on most toys, not a very substantial step up relative to other current toys and models. Today's toys seem far more constrained by budgets thus the toys have become smaller with more effort to reduce plastic content, both parts counts and complexity have waned, as well as the amount of paint and tampo used. I still think the majority of mainline toys are decent, but any further cuts are going to have detrimental effects, methinks. One area we both agree on is Takara's ability to craft fun, engaging, and solid transformations about 99% of the time. There are a few clunkers, especially their jetformers, but overall, especially compared to most third-party offerings at any scale, Takara succeeds well in making fun and satisfying transforming toys. In that they are still the masters of the genre they helped to invent.

Edited May 5 by M'Kyuun

[26662]

19 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

"I've seen quality go down since the early two-thousands, around 2007, when Classics, the first Bayformers, Animated, and Prime were all coming out, a time I characterize as a golden era of Transformers toys- priced well, with generally more complexity and parts count per size class, far fewer gaps and waffles, and more paint apps make those toys stand out still as some of their highest quality output on the whole."

A.M.E.N.  There was a golden window during which we had no idea just how good we had it and just how sideways things could get.

[M'Kyuun]

16 hours ago, 26662 said:

A.M.E.N.  There was a golden window during which we had no idea just how good we had it and just how sideways things could get.

I think there's a caveat to observe, however, regarding the higher prices and declining quality of toys: demand. I don't know about any of you guys, but I can't remember the last time I saw a kid in the action figure isle looking at, well, anything. Today's kids are largely fixated on electronics and social media and not so much on little plastic figures. I think the market is absolutely dependent primarily on people in their forties and up, with a contingent of younger folks buying toys, but not to the level we were invested in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Toys were our method of escapism, acting out imaginary scenarios, telling stories, or just having physical manifestations of those things we saw and liked on the big and little screens at the time. Video games were rudimentary when we were kids- there was no realism, no Horizon: Zero Dawns with gorgeous realistic landscapes and fluid movement to realistic looking humans and creatures. Cartoons filled that role to a lesser extent, and to that end, kids for the past three or four decades have no idea about the splendor of spending a Saturday morning glued to the tube for four hours straight watching back to back cartoons, making the hard choices when two shows you like are on simultaneously and there's no DVR to simply record one. Of course, we had VCRs, but if you forgot to set it or the tape was bad quality, or someone inadvertently taped over your show, such was life. I'm digressing. The point I want to make is that while we older fans and collectors bemoan the declining quality of our precious playthings, from Hasbro's POV (I'm not sure how the toy situation is in Japan, but it seems to be booming in China), I think the decline in interest, and thus sales, from what is ostensibly their target market, i.e. kids around 8-14, has fallen off significantly thus their reluctance to pour more resources into their production and seek other avenues, like video games or movies, to keep them relevant and profitable. I think they're fully aware that it's the older adult fanbase keeping the line going, but we are getting older and eventually 20, 30, 40 years down the line most of us will be one with the Matrix, so, while I wish far more resources were being thrown at Transformers, they have a responsibility to themselves and their shareholders to invest in things that will be profitable in the future, and sadly, I don't think that will be plastic figures, even super-cool ones that can turn into other things with a few twists, turns, and flips. With that bit of reality in mind, I try to be thankful for what we do have, and for the commitment we see from the designers who share their passions for these things. I'm glad Hasbro made the smart move to put them on these streaming events, as it creates a personal connection to the toys and it lets us see that there's true creativity and desire to make good toys in spite of constraints. It's easier to forgive some of the flaws knowing that their hands are often tied by budgets and other factors. Finally, I say it often, but it bears repeating: we're most fortunate that Transformers not only still exists as a living property, but one that's to all intents thriving when so many other 80s toylines are as extinct as the dinosaurs. I'm grateful.

[mikeszekely]

Delayed until next summer.  Jet mode actually looks good (at least from the top.  Bot mode is... well, it's a mix of the Fire Valk and Optimus Prime.  What's interesting is that it's got a stage that appears to turn into a trailer.  Secret truck mode?

[M'Kyuun]

This is such a weird mashup. The plane looks alright from the top, but then that's generally the favored view of the majority of Takara's jetformer designs to draw attention away from the bottom where all the unseemly robot kibble is placed. It's noteworthy that no profile or bottom shots of the plane are shown. The bot mode, as well, is showing the compromises from trying to mash together two incongruous designs. It'll be neither VF-19 nor Optimus but an odd Frankenstein's Monster of the pair.

[davidwhangchoi]

2 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Delayed until next summer.  Jet mode actually looks good (at least from the top.  Bot mode is... well, it's a mix of the Fire Valk and Optimus Prime.  What's interesting is that it's got a stage that appears to turn into a trailer.  Secret truck mode?

so this is a triple changer, a truck and plane? 

 

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, davidwhangchoi said:

so this is a triple changer, a truck and plane? 

 

I wish I knew.  I mean, you can see that the stage definitely has wheels and looks like it folds up into a trailer.  But I don't see any wheels on Basara Prime.  He does have the truck window chest instead of the normal Fire Valkyrie chest, though... maybe Basara Prime can cube up, chest out?  Then maybe connect to the overhang on the back of the stage?  

[26662]

3 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

It'll be neither VF-19 nor Optimus but an odd Frankenstein's Monster of the pair.

+5 pts. for “Monster.”  MW’s got some scholars up in here.  😃

I’m gonna hate the belly kibble, but I’ll pick up two.  I don’t have room to display my bots, but if I did, I’d use this figure as a centerpiece to bridge/anchor my Transformers and Macross collections.

[davidwhangchoi]

2 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I wish I knew.  I mean, you can see that the stage definitely has wheels and looks like it folds up into a trailer.  But I don't see any wheels on Basara Prime.  He does have the truck window chest instead of the normal Fire Valkyrie chest, though... maybe Basara Prime can cube up, chest out?  Then maybe connect to the overhang on the back of the stage?  

hmm.. that does seem like a good guess.  

[Scyla]

The robot also has smoke stacks for some reasons. So maybe it is a triple changer.

However, I think it is more likely that the Valkyrie will be able to be attached to the trailer.

I wonder were the inspiration for the trailer came from. The only thing that looks vaguely like it from M7 is this:

(image courtesy of the Macross Mecha Manual: https://macross2.net/m3/macross7/tractortrailertruck.htm)

From the shape of it it looks more like Rodimus’ trailer: 

[treatment]

 

here's a twitter-post showing a better shot of the prototype Basara Prime underside from:

https://twitter.com/TF_pr/status/1922471928675369343

 

 

full-size of the image is thru the twitter-link...

 

 

[sh9000]

Devastator.

[mikeszekely]

Everything needs to be Optimus!  Here's Transformers x Diaclone x Zoids Shield-D Prime.

Plus they're apparently working on another Evangelion collab.  Folks are speculating that this one could be a retool of Legendary Optimus (an upscaled redeco of Evasion Mode Optimus).

[M'Kyuun]

Why does every collab have to turn into a bastardized form of Prime?  FWIW, I've always thought a transforming Eva would be cool, but my idea was premised on the actual Eva, particularly Unit 01, as it's my favorite design of the base three, becoming a jet of some sort using those large shoulder armors for wings. I'd prefer that over making it a mash-up with Prime, or as with so many other collabs, mashing with other established Transformers characters where making the subject turn into its own distinct bot would better serve.

I've always liked Zoids, and this particular mash-up should appeal greatly, but somehow it doesn't, and I can't quite figure out the cause other than their trying to shoehorn elements of Optimus into the bot's design. 

16 hours ago, Scyla said:

The robot also has smoke stacks for some reasons. So maybe it is a triple changer.

However, I think it is more likely that the Valkyrie will be able to be attached to the trailer.

I wonder were the inspiration for the trailer came from. The only thing that looks vaguely like it from M7 is this:

(image courtesy of the Macross Mecha Manual: https://macross2.net/m3/macross7/tractortrailertruck.htm)

From the shape of it it looks more like Rodimus’ trailer: 

I think you're close to the mark, as I don't really see Basara Prime folding into some sort of weird truck form. I could be wrong (it's happened on more than one occasion), as that weird overly large microphone may serve as a hitch of some sort. If he indeed does have a third truckish form, there's gonna be a lot of kibble to deal with and it's probably not going to be the most believable truck they've ever done. Guess we'll see.

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

I've always liked Zoids, and this particular mash-up should appeal greatly, but somehow it doesn't, and I can't quite figure out the cause other than their trying to shoehorn elements of Optimus into the bot's design.

Probably because, aside from some red on the arms and the pelvis (which are still not so overtly Optimus that they couldn't be just about anybody) the only real element of Optimus is the head.

Shoulda made the Shield Liger into Rampage or Razorclaw, if not a entirely new character...

Edited 5 hours ago by mikeszekely

[Scyla]

3 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Why does every collab have to turn into a bastardized form of Prime?  FWIW, I've always thought a transforming Eva would be cool, but my idea was premised on the actual Eva, particularly Unit 01, as it's my favorite design of the base three, becoming a jet of some sort using those large shoulder armors for wings. I'd prefer that over making it a mash-up with Prime, or as with so many other collabs, mashing with other established Transformers characters where making the subject turn into its own distinct bot would better serve.

I've always liked Zoids, and this particular mash-up should appeal greatly, but somehow it doesn't, and I can't quite figure out the cause other than their trying to shoehorn elements of Optimus into the bot's design. 

I think you're close to the mark, as I don't really see Basara Prime folding into some sort of weird truck form. I could be wrong (it's happened on more than one occasion), as that weird overly large microphone may serve as a hitch of some sort. If he indeed does have a third truckish form, there's gonna be a lot of kibble to deal with and it's probably not going to be the most believable truck they've ever done. Guess we'll see.

On the show floor there is a silhouette of the third mode. To me it looks like some sort of Mospeada Legioss/Tread combination where the VF-19 transforms into Gerwalk-mode and attaches to the trailer. 
Maybe it has some wheels in the lower legs and smokestacks on the side to emulate some sort of truck but it will be far from a real Optimus truck I think.

To me it makes a lot of sense to be Optimus. It is the face of a franchise combine with another face of the franchise (Godzilla, Shield Liger, Basara, Rathalos). 

While other characters might make a lot of sense for crossovers I don’t think it is the intent behind the SynergenX line.

While I could see that a Laserwave/YF-21 would be a sensible choice, this line is a marketing vehicle so Transformers can benefit from other fandoms. But their fans who this line is for don’t know or care about Laserwave (or the YF-21) they know Optimus/Convoy.

Edited 3 hours ago by Scyla

[davidwhangchoi]

33 minutes ago, Scyla said:

On the show floor there is a silhouette of the third mode. To me it looks like some sort of Mospeada Legioss/Tread combination where the VF-19 transforms into Gerwalk-mode and attaches to the trailer. 
Maybe it has some wheels in the lower legs and smokestacks on the side to emulate some sort of truck but it will be far from a real Optimus truck I think.

Looks like Sky Lynx

[mikeszekely]

26 minutes ago, Scyla said:

o me it makes a lot of sense to be Optimus. It is the face of a franchise combine with another face of the franchise (Godzilla, Shield Liger, Basara, Rathalos). 

While other characters might make a lot of sense for crossovers I don’t think it is the intent behind the SynergenX line.

While I could see that a Laserwave/YF-21 would be a sensible choice, this line is a marketing vehicle so Transformers can benefit from other fandoms. But their fans who this line is for don’t know or care about Laserwave (or the YF-21) they know Optimus/Convoy.

But that cuts both ways.  Like, Optimus is THE guy when it comes to Transformers, sure, but guys like Bumblebee and Megatron, and maybe Grimlock and Starscream to a lesser extent, are still pretty well know.  Are we really going to argue that Basara/the Fire Valkyrie is THE face of Macross?  In the All Macross Big Voting poll in 2019 Macross Frontier was voted as the most popular production, Sheryl Nome was voted as the most popular character, the YF-19 was voted as the most popular mecha.  Assuming we want to stick with Frontier, then, the YF-29 ranked higher than the Fire Valkyrie on the mecha side.  But, just like I think Bumblebee or someone is popular enough on the Transformers side, Basara/The Fire Valk is popular enough (Basara was the second most popular character after Sheryl, the Fire Valk was the 4th most popular mecha after the YF-19, VF-19S, and YF-29, and Macross 7 was the third most popular production after Macross Frontier and Do You Remember Love.

I guess all I'm saying is that, yes, if you're not doing original characters then it makes sense to mash up the popular ones.  But it doesn't have to be the same single popular guy every time.

[Scyla]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

But that cuts both ways.  Like, Optimus is THE guy when it comes to Transformers, sure, but guys like Bumblebee and Megatron, and maybe Grimlock and Starscream to a lesser extent, are still pretty well know.  Are we really going to argue that Basara/the Fire Valkyrie is THE face of Macross?  In the All Macross Big Voting poll in 2019 Macross Frontier was voted as the most popular production, Sheryl Nome was voted as the most popular character, the YF-19 was voted as the most popular mecha.  Assuming we want to stick with Frontier, then, the YF-29 ranked higher than the Fire Valkyrie on the mecha side.  But, just like I think Bumblebee or someone is popular enough on the Transformers side, Basara/The Fire Valk is popular enough (Basara was the second most popular character after Sheryl, the Fire Valk was the 4th most popular mecha after the YF-19, VF-19S, and YF-29, and Macross 7 was the third most popular production after Macross Frontier and Do You Remember Love.

I guess all I'm saying is that, yes, if you're not doing original characters then it makes sense to mash up the popular ones.  But it doesn't have to be the same single popular guy every time.

I absolutely think Basara/Fire Valkyrie is the face of Macross in Japan.

Yes he might not be as popular as Sheryl but the combination of iconic character, mecha and music makes him an ideal choice (I mean what mecha is Sheryl known for? The Koenig Monster or the transport shuttle?)

And don’t forget, Frontier did a whole tribute to Fire Bomber and Basara M7.

And I really this is a line is meant to draw other people into Transformers and to them and not for Transformers fans who know who the other characters of the evergreen roster are.

Sure some people might know who Bumblebee, Starscream and Megatron are but non are as iconic as Optimus Prime. If you really want to cash in on the Macross fandom use something that they know for sure.

Sometimes it is hard to imagine what the outside world looks like if you are neck deep in the fandom. But if people know anything about Transformers it’s Optimus.

[edit:] A Bumblebee/Sheryl/YF-29 makes no sense to me.

[edit2:] I also cannot comprehend the notion that to the average Frontier fan an Optimus Prime mecha has any kind of draw because they are not in it for the Valkyries (or their pilots) but for Sheryl/Ranka and J-Pop music.

Edited 1 hour ago by Scyla