HG and Robotech Debates

[HappyPenguins]

Has the Robotech franchise really come to this? That a teeny tiny "Coming Soon" JPEG is enough to make the hardcore Robotech fans prematurely orgasm?

sad truth aint it?

[Jasonc]

What was really annoying about the comment of the new thing, was that they termed it "new production with Tatsunoko" or something like that. What does Tatsunoko have to do with Tommy drawing a picture for what appears to be some sort of comic, and why try to mislead people by saying "new production"? If it's a comic, why not say that? What is so secretive about that? In the scope of things, anime in general, Robotech is little more than a quick "oh look" in a melancholy manner, and onto real stuff. Why try to sell one thing, when eventually, if you're going to release something, it's gonna be completely different? Oh, I forgot, it's gonna be word manipulated to fit the dice roll they get.

I don't care about a new Robotech comic, or product coming out. If it does, good, but why turn it into some area 51 secret? Really... everytime they try to hype up such small news, their fans start catch onto what the M.O. is. Anyways, whatever, I'll get a free copy from someone of whatever it is, and make comments of this later, after it's already out, or there's real news about this.

[VF5SS]

I just want good stories that engages me.

then why are you watching Robotech?

And if you want to talk about the promotion of Macross Frontier, remember when they premiered the entire first episode six months before the show was set to air?

And can you truly gauge the build-up from what you read on this site? Even through the language barrier? We certainly don't live in the land of stuff like Newtype aka "Press-Release the Magazine."

[Jasonc]

then why are you watching Robotech?

And if you want to talk about the promotion of Macross Frontier, remember when they premiered the entire first episode six months before the show was set to air?

And can you truly gauge the build-up from what you read on this site? Even through the language barrier? We certainly don't live in the land of stuff like Newtype aka "Press-Release the Magazine."

To add onto this, there was a looooootttt of info, on a regular basis of Mac F well before it came to fruition. Each article, interview, official post, was either a confirmation, or something new added. Natural progression kinda goes (more times than not)...1)We're announcing a new story...2)We're announcing the title and timeline...3)We're announcing basic plots...4)We're showing a pic or two....on and on, until the damn thing comes out.

HG has done it like 1) We're announcing a sequel and title...2)We're doing stuff, but we can't talk about it 3)We're doing stuff, but we can't talk about it 4)We're doing stuff, but we can't talk about it 5)We're doing stuff, but we can't talk about it 6)We're doing stuff, but we can't talk about it 7)We're doing stuff, but we can't talk about it... get the idea. I wouldn't even compare What Robotech is now to Macross or any of it's components. Robotech doesn't measure up to anything Macross for a long time.

[Seto Kaiba]

sad truth aint it?

Calling it "sad" doesn't quite do it justice... that they're getting all worked up over a graphic that probably took Tommy all of thirty seconds to make in Photoshop because those among them who attended AX are blowing the announcement all out of proportion and taking the statement to mean a variety of things including a new movie and/or TV series is just pathetic.

I just want good stories that engages me.

then why are you watching Robotech?

Let me second that question... why would anyone watch Robotech if what they want is a well-told and engaging story? That's like saying you want haute cuisine and then looking for it in the dumpster behind the nearest McDonalds. Robotech never even came close to being an engaging narrative with a solid, well-written story even at its peak, so looking for those traits in future Robotech works sounds to me like taking on a Sisyphean endeavor.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Let me second that question... why would anyone watch Robotech if what they want is a well-told and engaging story? That's like saying you want haute cuisine and then looking for it in the dumpster behind the nearest McDonalds. Robotech never even came close to being an engaging narrative with a solid, well-written story even at its peak, so looking for those traits in future Robotech works sounds to me like taking on a Sisyphean endeavor.

Multiple reasons the SDFM dub scared them and they dont want to read subs,Gas Leak,Nostalgia,they're under the age of 16 and dont' have access to the internet but only basic cable, etc.

For me it was mainly I never saw the series entirely.

Edited July 7, 2010 by BeyondTheGrave

[HappyPenguins]

Calling it "sad" doesn't quite do it justice... that they're getting all worked up over a graphic that probably took Tommy all of thirty seconds to make in Photoshop because those among them who attended AX are blowing the announcement all out of proportion and taking the statement to mean a variety of things including a new movie and/or TV series is just pathetic.

but I can't help but pity the poor fools....

[Jasonc]

but I can't help but pity the poor fools....

That sounds kinda Mr. T like..."I pity da foos!" I only feel sorry for the true fans who haven't gotten what they've been waiting for, and only get hand-me-down quality stuff. Oh well, I had a good conversation with several RT fans at AX, and they seem more like the realists than the "Everything is perfect" type. At least some eyes are being opened. Of course, the more vocal will say differently. Heard a lot of interesting stuff.

[Einherjar]

I will just put this out there, why Sera? This could finally be Mospeada II and such, but what makes her special to focus a side story on?

Edited July 7, 2010 by Einherjar

[Jasonc]

I will just put this out there, why Sera? This could finally be Mospeada II and such, but what makes her special to focus a side story on?

I guess RT fans have a fascination with knowing everything with every single character, Sera and Lancer is no exception. It would create a lot of trouble for them to actually write a full new side story,,,either that, or they are incapable of it. Take your pick. In anycase, they're passing it off as a new animated series coming next year, even though Tommy specifically said that they were going to use Carl's idea to explore other means of putting out new story. Go figure. And the misinformation continues.

Update, I listened to Tommy's additional verbage about this. Here's what Tommy has said about it.

-It's a small production

-Supposedly Tatsunoko is working with them on it

-It is gonna be a "movie length movie", which I don't know what that means

-It will be animated (Flash or full animation is anyone's guess)

-They haven't put anything out yet because they want to cross-promote the LAM with Shadow Rising

O.K., don't know about all of you, but something doesn't fit in all these comments. On one hand, it's too small to be a movie, but he calls it a movie once. Yet, they don't wanna promote any movies because WB's pull. I sense puffery here, the deliberate inflation of the facts. OK, now let the misinformation continue.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Jasonc

[Seto Kaiba]

Multiple reasons the SDFM dub scared them and they dont want to read subs,Gas Leak,Nostalgia,they're under the age of 16 and dont' have access to the internet but only basic cable, etc.

Okay, the only one in there that came as a surprise was "gas leak"... that still doesn't really excuse the fact that the ones who are looking for an engaging narrative and good writing are looking in the wrong place... they could do much better watching most any of the made-for-TV movies the SciFi (SyFy?) channel runs these days.

I only feel sorry for the true fans who haven't gotten what they've been waiting for, and only get hand-me-down quality stuff.

You shouldn't... it's their own damn fault for having unrealistic expectations that are impossible for the franchise's owners to live up to. Anyone who honestly believes those idiots at Harmony Gold are capable of producing something of value despite 25+ years of evidence to the contrary DESERVES to be disappointed. There comes a time when, if a man is determined to hurt himself with his own stupidity, you can no longer justify feeling sorry for them. For Robotech fans, that time came many years ago.

Oh well, I had a good conversation with several RT fans at AX, and they seem more like the realists than the "Everything is perfect" type. At least some eyes are being opened. Of course, the more vocal will say differently. Heard a lot of interesting stuff.

Better late than never, right? I have a hard time with the term "realist Robotech fan", since it really does sound like a contradiction in terms. A Robotech fan who is also a realist would know full well that the franchise will never produce anything of value, and such a viewpoint would likely cause them to give up on it altogether.

I guess RT fans have a fascination with knowing everything with every single character, Sera and Lancer is no exception. It would create a lot of trouble for them to actually write a full new side story,,,either that, or they are incapable of it.

Robotech's fanbase has the same sort of bizarre obsession with the fate and deeds of every minor, background, or one-shot character mirrors that of Star Wars, with the notable exceptions that Star Wars is actually popular, and that the expanded universe titles which are still canon actually cater to that tendency.

For Robotech fans, what this means is a lot of guesswork and unanswered questions as they attempt to find significance in the actions of every character who's ever shown up in the show... often with results that are irritating beyond belief for anyone who's unfortunate enough to get dragged into it.

O.K., don't know about all of you, but something doesn't fit in all these comments. On one hand, it's too small to be a movie, but he calls it a movie once. Yet, they don't wanna promote any movies because WB's pull. I sense puffery here, the deliberate inflation of the facts. OK, now let the misinformation continue.

Plus it goes against what Tommy had said previously about Shadow Rising being on hold because they were waiting for the live-action movie to succeed and raise the whole franchise's value in the eyes of its investors.

[hulagu]

Update, I listened to Tommy's additional verbage about this. Here's what Tommy has said about it.

-It's a small production

-Supposedly Tatsunoko is working with them on it

-It is gonna be a "movie length movie", which I don't know what that means

-It will be animated (Flash or full animation is anyone's guess)

-They haven't put anything out yet because they want to cross-promote the LAM with Shadow Rising

O.K., don't know about all of you, but something doesn't fit in all these comments. On one hand, it's too small to be a movie, but he calls it a movie once. Yet, they don't wanna promote any movies because WB's pull. I sense puffery here, the deliberate inflation of the facts. OK, now let the misinformation continue.

Maybe an extended Robotechized Special Edition of Love Live Alive? LOL.

[Moly_Sigang]

Maybe an extended Robotechized Special Edition of Love Live Alive? LOL.

It's going to be a Special Limited Protoculture Deluxe 25th Anniversary Edition of Love Live Alive.

[Funkenstein]

Well, in Japanese animation, a "movie" could be 30 minutes in length.

[chrisk]

Update, I listened to Tommy's additional verbage about this. Here's what Tommy has said about it.

-It's a small production

-Supposedly Tatsunoko is working with them on it

-It is gonna be a "movie length movie", which I don't know what that means

-It will be animated

-They haven't put anything out yet because they want to cross-promote the LAM with Shadow Rising

Now I have a couple of questions to speculate about... but does HG really have that much pull on WB that they can essentially predict that Shadow Rising is not only a sure thing in the distant future, but that it's going to somehow tie-in with a Robotech film?

I mean, why continue this farce that Shadow Rising is still in production? What harm is there is saying it was outright say it was canceled? Is it all part of the *gasp!* illusion?

[azrael]

Now I have a couple of questions to speculate about... but does HG really have that much pull on WB that they can essentially predict that Shadow Rising is not only a sure thing in the distant future, but that it's going to somehow tie-in with a Robotech film?

I mean, why continue this farce that Shadow Rising is still in production? What harm is there is saying it was outright say it was canceled? Is it all part of the *gasp!* illusion?

It's called "marketing". They basically want it to ride on someone else's coattails (gee, doesn't that sound familiar). If they didn't, then their profit margins would be considerably lower. Now, if it did have enough push to do well on its own, it won't need to wait for WB to do something.

[Save]

-Supposedly Tatsunoko is working with them on it

I don't remember hearing Tatsunoko Pro being mentioned in the videos MEMO uploaded, was this said outside the panel or did I miss it?

[Knight26]

Oh come on we all know that the next robobleck production will just be a compilation movie of ASTROPLAN, redubbed with robotech characters.

[Einherjar]

I don't remember hearing Tatsunoko Pro being mentioned in the videos MEMO uploaded, was this said outside the panel or did I miss it?

Maybe it was on the robotechespanol talkshoe.

[terry the lone wolf]

I don't remember hearing Tatsunoko Pro being mentioned in the videos MEMO uploaded, was this said outside the panel or did I miss it?

Tommy mentioned before Carl Macek died they were running ideas with Tatsunoko.

[Funkenstein]

Tommy mentioned before Carl Macek died they were running ideas with Tatsunoko.

Which probably amounted to desperate pleading for a new Mospeada animation.

[Einherjar]

It doesn't sound like a fair deal. Tatsunoko, as the only company in the animation industry, would have to shoulder a lot of the responsibility while HG leads the project from afar.

It's also a bit ironic that the projected release date for this feature is about a year from the time it was announced.

[azrael]

It doesn't sound like a fair deal. Tatsunoko, as the only company in the animation industry, would have to shoulder a lot of the responsibility while HG leads the project from afar.

It's also a bit ironic that the projected release date for this feature is about a year from the time it was announced.

It's no different than what was done with Halo: Legends or Batman: Gotham Knight. Except those were announced closer to their release date.

[Seto Kaiba]

Now I have a couple of questions to speculate about... but does HG really have that much pull on WB that they can essentially predict that Shadow Rising is not only a sure thing in the distant future, but that it's going to somehow tie-in with a Robotech film?

Of course not... they've made it abundantly clear that they're crossing their fingers and hoping that Warner will make a successful live-action adaptation of Robotech to undo the damage Macek did to the franchise during his tenure as creative director. They claim that they "have a say" in the movie, though it's obvious from the way they act that they have no influence on the project whatsoever and are just along for the ride.

I mean, why continue this farce that Shadow Rising is still in production? What harm is there is saying it was outright say it was canceled? Is it all part of the *gasp!* illusion?

Because the hardcore fans are their safety net in the event that the decision to bank on the live-action movie to revive interest in Robotech doesn't pan out. If they were no longer dangling the promise that they'll reveal the fate of Rick Hunter over the heads of the fans, what's left of the fanbase would fall apart almost overnight, leaving them with nothing if the live-action movie project falls apart.

Tommy mentioned before Carl Macek died they were running ideas with Tatsunoko.

Now, that doesn't mean that Tatsunoko is actually involved (unless it was mentioned explicitly in the videos). It's entirely possible that Tatsunoko could have only been involved in a minor advisory capacity and to get approval to use the Mospeada designs. It doesn't mean that Tatsunoko will be doing the animation.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Jasonc]

Save, in regards to your question, he does tie in that comment of Tats to the project, as well as on the podcast. Ah hell, I hope it isn't Love Live Alive. If they got the rights for that, and butcher it, I'm gonna start my own damn project of adding the right songs and sound to the DVD or whatnot. I really enjoy the Voice actors and their work, as well as the music and what Michael Bradley did, but c'mon...Let it not be that.

[HappyPenguins]

I will just put this out there, why Sera? This could finally be Mospeada II and such, but what makes her special to focus a side story on?

beats me... I just hope Tommy Baffoon isn't the character designer this time....

his character art is atrocious

since this is "supposedly" Macek's idea I am a tad bit curious..

and I hope they can get some REAL artists involved this time.

[chrisk]

Maybe it was on the robotechespanol talkshoe.

Should I be amused that their July 6 Talkcast is entitled "Nueva Pelicula 2011 Tommy in the House!111!!!"?

It's called "marketing". They basically want it to ride on someone else's coattails (gee, doesn't that sound familiar). If they didn't, then their profit margins would be considerably lower. Now, if it did have enough push to do well on its own, it won't need to wait for WB to do something.

It's a shame we don't have a "Darkwater"/insider now besides Robotech's #1 Fan MEMO. I remember when DW practically outscoop HG's so-called "marketing department" by simply making phone calls and searching voice actor's IMDB page for the yet-to-be-announced Shadow Chronicles! DW's self-initiated fan promotion for Shadow Chronicles was so good online-fanwise that HG eventually tolerated his efforts. Of course, per HG's patented sleazeball strategy, they started dictating how DW should run his promotional site because Yune and company probably realized they could avoid a lot of legal red tape and financial obligations. Eventually there was a backlash, and now McKeever continues to deny DW made any impact whatsoever in Shadow Chronicles sordid production history.

Maybe a lurker (the closet fanboy in us all) or rabid fanboy can make a call to the voice actress of Sera or Cam Clarke and confirm all this crap?!

Tatsunoko, as the only company in the animation industry, would have to shoulder a lot of the responsibility while HG leads the project from afar.

Tatsunoko must have been dumbfounded when they got the phonecall from HG.

"Those crazy Korean Americans want another Mospeada midquel? Okay... I've heard of crazier s**t I suppose"

[Jasonc]

I seriously question if this is something Macek was really working on??? Perhaps it's just said as such to supposedly avoid the criticism? I dunno, I guess my synicism from past fiascos makes me like this. Hahaha.

[azrael]

I seriously question if this is something Macek was really working on??? Perhaps it's just said as such to supposedly avoid the criticism? I dunno, I guess my synicism from past fiascos makes me like this. Hahaha.

From what I heard in the vids, it was something Macek thought of that Yune decided to expand on. So Yune is doing most of the leg work but it was originally Macek's idea.

[Mr March]

Now I have a couple of questions to speculate about... but does HG really have that much pull on WB that they can essentially predict that Shadow Rising is not only a sure thing in the distant future, but that it's going to somehow tie-in with a Robotech film?

I can guarantee you that whichever one of the major Hollywood studios are involved in a live action Robotech movie, Harmony Gold will have ZERO input. Far more powerful, richer and more respected property owners have sold rights to Hollywood and they've never had a say in the film adaptations. When Hollywood makes an adaptation, property owners are paid upfront and the studio alone retains rights ownership for a specified number of years to make the film adaptation. In those years of studio property ownership, no one else but the studio has input into how the film is made unless the studio wishes it. The studio decides the directors, the producers, the writers, etc. The only time the original property owner gets involved is if someone goes far out of their way to offer them that courtesy (read; Robert Rodriguez/Frank Miller re: Sin City). If HG or their reps try to sell anyone on "co-producer" BS or some other "we're involved" crap at a convention, blog post or interview, that's all it will be: BS and crap. Hollywood studios are at the top of the food chain. When property rights are sold to the studios that's where the original owner input ends and they don't deal any other way.

[chrisk]

My question is why Harmony Gold feels they are special?

When Hollywood makes an adaptation, property owners are paid upfront and the studio alone retains rights ownership for a specified number of years to make the film adaptation.

Then why does Harmony Gold feel they need to hammer down the point that Warner Brothers somehow magically "acquired" merchandising and videogames rights as major revelations in giant media conventions?

When you surrender your rights to a Hollywood studio, can you make derivative property even before the announcement of the Live Action Movie's production as we can derive from the recent AX announcement?

Does anyone know how much studios paid for various 80's properties like Transformers or Smurfs?

[azrael]

My question is why Harmony Gold feels they are special?

It's called "hype".

Then why does Harmony Gold feel they need to hammer down the point that Warner Brothers somehow magically "acquired" merchandising and videogames rights as major revelations in giant media conventions?

Remember this post? It really shouldn't be any big news. When movie studios get those rights, it normally includes merchandise. Which kind of merchandise depends on the terms of the contract. Which is usually a separate contract. Most of which concerns just items pertaining to the movie.

When you surrender your rights to a Hollywood studio, can you make derivative property even before the announcement of the Live Action Movie's production as we can derive from the recent AX announcement?

Does anyone know how much studios paid for various 80's properties like Transformers or Smurfs?

If you are the copyright holder, then yes because you legally own the property. Remember Transformers Animated? Hasbro didn't give Paramount rights to make a cartoon. They gave them rights to make a live action movie and related merchandise (of which they would be one ones making the toys). But as I said, it depends on the terms of the contract. HG probably licensed out the rights to much of that stuff since they have no real capacity to produce it themselves unlike Hasbro.

[Robelwell202]

From what I heard in the vids, it was something Macek thought of that Yune decided to expand on. So Yune is doing most of the leg work but it was originally Macek's idea.

This is going to sound cynical as all hell, but now that Macek's passed into the great beyond, Harmony Gold can claim anything they want about 'future projects' that happen to be 'Macek's idea'.

With thier past practices, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[Einherjar]

It's no different than what was done with Halo: Legends or Batman: Gotham Knight. Except those were announced closer to their release date.

Don't forget the money. Microsoft and Warner Bros. were loaded and could afford it for franchises with strong brand recognition.

[Seto Kaiba]

This is going to sound cynical as all hell, but now that Macek's passed into the great beyond, Harmony Gold can claim anything they want about 'future projects' that happen to be 'Macek's idea'.

Of course... it's dollars to donuts that's exactly what happened with this new unnamed project they're allegedly working on. As many in the fanbase are still engaged in wailing and gnashing of teeth over his death and "remembering" what a visionary he was, Harmony Gold could get them to buy into just about anything by saying that it was something Macek had envisioned. Hell, it started before the man even died with them inviting him back in an advisory capacity, a choice which made the dumber fans think that he would have at least partial creative control over the series again (ironic, as it turns out, since Tommy Yune had far more success in his tenure as creative director than Macek ever did).

I'll wager that, if this side story is really something they're working on and not just noise they're throwing out so people think they aren't just jerking off to Shadow Chronicles concept art, it was something that crossed Macek's desk only briefly, and was probably one of Tommy's ideas that Macek said wasn't completely stupid, or something like that.