The economy and your collection.

[nghia59]

So I've been getting Macross toys since the 80's and have had my personal ups and downs in the different phases of collecting. But recently the state of the economy is really scaring the bejeezus out of me. I've been in the video games industry for 11 years now and finally got to a good place in my career. Then whamo! The economy actually struck in the form of no credit lines available for new and upcomming projects. So to make a long story short, my project was canceled and I was laid off. Normally this wouldn't even phase me as I've never had an issue of getting jobs before but now with so many developers who've gone under in the last 18 months as well as big companies on a hiring freeze it's actually a scary prospect for finding work. I'm actually worried that i might have to start selling off my collection to make ends meet if it gets worse in the summer.

So the big question to you guys is...

How's everyone doing so far on the collecting and how are you guys coping with problems if you are?

- Nghia

[jenius]

I had actually been considering scrounging up some cash and buying a house about eight months ago... any thought of doing that is now tossed out the window. I've seen lots of companies we do business with disappear so now, even though my company seems completely fine, I'm going to play it safe for at least another year and just try to accumulate a very large down payment (or, should everything go upside down, some money to live off of for a while). My girlfriend is quitting her job later this year and she's really concerned about how difficult it might be to find somewhere new to work so that sucks. As for the toys, I'm still buying them but I'm definitely avoiding buying variants for the sake of different paint jobs. I won't be getting a CF-1J, TV-1A, etc etc. I elected not to purchase a Weathering 1S or the 1/48 Kakizake 1A TV. I had to sell off a bunch of toys last year for space reasons, if I do go unemployed I certainly have a few items I wouldn't mind selling to try to scrape some extra cash together. As it is, I'm hoping to hold onto everything until times get better so those toys I don't feel I really need right now can at least be sold without taking a HUGE loss.

[nghia59]

Hey also if you guys can, please let us know what industry you're in.

As for me, I'm a game artist. I have a pretty nice collection but now I have to really consider whether I need something or not before I plunk down the cash. Before I was really trying to have a complete collection as it was one of my childhood dreams.

Edited February 23, 2009 by nghia59

[VFTF1]

If I were going to be humble, I'd say I was lucky - if I were going to be arrogant, I'd say I was smart.

The reality is probably somewhere between the two.

Two years ago, I was convinced that this crisis would hit us sooner or later because my understanding of economics told me that when central banks keep pumping low interest fiat money into the economy, when war brings on higher and higher deficits funded by more and more treasury bills being sold and when all of this happens while taxes go down, but entitlements go up, and the governments of the world generally have policies which guarantee against bank failure (thereby encouraging banks to give out credit cards left and right) and guarantee deposits but permit fractional reserve banking... then it WILL collapse.

I consider it a point of pride that when my girlfriend was thinking of re-financing her mortgage and converting her debt to swiss franks to "take advantage of the exchange rate" I stopped her. She always thought my views were a bit crazy until it saved her a hundred thousand bucks to listen to me.

This is why two years ago I also started to scale back (and eventually quit) my job as an english teacher. I saw that when Poland entered the EU, millions of my potential customers (students) just left for the UK. It makes sense - if you want to learn english - why sit around Poland and pay me when you can get a job at Macdonalds in the UK or Ireland and learn there?

So I figured that the english teaching market, which was very good to me for the past few years, was going south anyways. Rents were rising, and the price of food was going up too. It became obvious that teaching was going to be a bum industry soon. And while there was some job security in it (given that there aren't a lot of native speakers here), feeling secure in a job that paid nothing was not going to be fun.

So - I took a little risk and started my own business. The Yen was mega cheap, the dollar was too. Credit was still readily available - but I wasn't about to take out a line of credit to buy real estate because I knew that market was one big over-inflated balloon. Especially since 70% of the credit offers for apartments were offers in Swiss francs - with banks and legions of people "taking advantage" of the exchange rate to pay lower monthly rates for their mortgage.

I knew that it was sheer stupidity to tie your mortgage to exchange rates. And hey - presto - now those people have houses and apartments whose value is falling well below the price they paid for it in Polish money, but their mortgage agereement is penned in Swiss francs - and so they now have about 50% higher mortgages and a higher real debt to pay off to the banksters.

Meanwhile, I took out a line of credit to start my own business - a toy store. built a webpage and moved back in with my parents in order to save money. All my money from my translating job and all revenues from my business were re-invested into my business throughout all of 2008 giving me a nice little warehouse which - given today's exchange rate - it would be impossible to accumulate.

Oh - and my business plan foresaw paying off my credit by the end of 2008 - did that too.

So - I suffered throughout all of 2008 -didn't go anywhere, saw my girlfriend once a month, enjoyed a beer and a movie at the cinema pretty much once a month. Did nothing but keep working to kick start my business and - above all - accumulate as large a warehouse as possible.

I figured if there was a depression coming, I better start suffering now rather than let it kick me in the ass while I'm partying.

Now - even if things get worse, I have an established business and a large warehouse. Sure, consumer demand is down - but it's tons better being a business with a warehouse in a depression than it is being a worker who can't make ends meet, has no savings accumulated and has nothing going for him.

Finally - since I believe that money (paper money) is worthless - I think the only thing worse than being in debt is having too much cash on hand. Liquid assets are completely worthless these days. What will you do with them? Keep them in a bank? Those keep going bankrupt. Invest in stock? Hah hah. Convert them to a better currency? Currency exchange rates are wild. Buy non-liquid assets? Invest in Oil? Yeah - it was 175 USD a barrel a couple months ago - now it's 35USD... Everything is chaotic.

I think the best thing you could have is a house or apartment which is your and paid off (value might be declining but at least you have a place to live) and a business that is yours and which can SURVIVE the depression.

I do - so I'm happy.

As a side note - I also continue doing translations - but since I'm self employed I get to be paid gross rather than net and do my own taxes. This sounds bad until you realize that in Poland self-employed businesses are taxed at a flat 19% rate independent of whether they make ten bucks a year or ten million bucks a year. Also, it is better because the 22% VAT tax becomes neutral for me rather than being something I actually have to pay.

Needless to say - I don't need to sell any of my personal collection. I hope that when the depression finally goes away, I'll be in a good position to start making lots of money.

The key for me is: never trust the politicians and the experts, always use your own independent thinking and even if people laugh at you - don't let it influence your decisions.

Pete

[nghia59]

If I were going to be humble, I'd say I was lucky - if I were going to be arrogant, I'd say I was smart.

The reality is probably somewhere between the two.

Yeah, I'd say that I planned fairly well with some cash saved in the bank and some fairly large tax returns comming for me but it's the companies dissappearing that's gotten me worried. I think I 'll have enought to last 2 years of unemployment with the help of umemployment and some random freelance work but at the end of that, it could wind up being really bad if the rest of the world doesn't get better. I haven't stopped completely buying toys but have to scale back to the absolute essentials for now and will prolly sell off some of the older pieces of the collection if anyone is interested in buying older valk runs.

- Nghia

[macrossnake]

Nghia

I feel your pain. I started my toy collection a few years ago, gundam, macross, all different kind of toys/figures and a lot of video games too... BTY I am also in video game industry myself. It certainly worrying. So many projects are being canceled and so many laid off...

People spending money for their pets, sport cars and big house. Toy is no different.

However, diffcult time like this meaning careful spending and perpare the worst. I am lucky that still have a job and still single. Whatever I spend, just be sure that I can really able to afford and still have certain amount of saving each month! Most of my toy collections are based on my childhood dream too. I guess it is rather common to us who like collect toys. Things that we couldn't own when we were kid, now we can!

If I were you, I wouldn't sell my toys collections unless there is no other options. Your collections may be nice, however it is hard to get a good deal since economy is so bad. And you might have a tough time to get/buy them back oneday! You could just start to find different type of job to pay the bid, that might not be video game related - you might even hate it, but just for now, be strong.

Video game industry will looks bad in recenty months/years, lots of laid off and down scale companys/projects. But it is actually make the whole industry stronger in a long run, better bussiness practice, better planing and better management.

Please just keep trying. Good days will come.

Good luck.

[Cent]

Finally - since I believe that money (paper money) is worthless - I think the only thing worse than being in debt is having too much cash on hand. Liquid assets are completely worthless these days. What will you do with them? Keep them in a bank? Those keep going bankrupt. Invest in stock? Hah hah. Convert them to a better currency?

You say that, but for those who are unable to get new loans or have lost a source of income, asset liquidity is the first thing they need. Why else would so many people be willing to sell off their life collections? It's true that there's not a lot of good places to put your money to good use, but inflation aside, it's sure better than losing value on your money.

Of course for me, I'm 22 and finishing my last years of university, right as tuition is skyrocketing. I studied in business and economics and anticipating a CGA certification, but the job market is looking pretty terrible. The good news is that moving out and getting a home or apartment may be considerably cheaper. The bad news is that this isn't going to happen if I don't save up enough money for it first or fail to find a job in time. I think I'm in the lucky zone, where my family is financially well off and relatively stable in the current economy, enough so that I am not in such a tight position. All that's happened lately is that I've been more frugal and selective with what I buy for non-essentials. I bought a 1/72 VF-25F most recently, and that was cause a friend helped bring it over from Japan, so I paid about $47 CAD total. Nothing else has come out for Macross lately that I deem essential yet ;p Im fortunate enough that I don't need to sell pieces of my own collection to make ends meet though.

[Agent-GHQ]

This is exactly why I prefer to save more and spend less. Then in the event of the global economic crunch, you buy when its low. As mentioned above, collectors are forced to sell their collection to make ends meet.

Thank gawd I bought a condo for a fraction of what the previous owner paid!!

[VFTF1]

Nothing else has come out for Macross lately that I deem essential yet ;p

[puts on nerdy glasses/engages squeeky voice]

Now how can you say that Yamato's new v.2 1/60 VF-1D two-seater with Lyn Minmey in cute dress is not essential?

Pete

[Cent]

I never liked Minmey. =X

*runs*

[Black Valkyrie]

I never liked Minmey. =X

*runs*

You are not the only one

[Black Valkyrie]

Lately I only buy the toys that I really want, this year very little toys I`ll buy and they don`t come over five items. As for the video games I lost interest because it has to do with the market offers today, I`m going to sell most of VG collection but never my Macross and MSG collection.

Regards,

Black Valkyrie

[edwin3060]

You are not the only one

Yep. There's actually a whole bunch of us who are Minmey-neutral at best We just keep out heads low.

[wizartar]

I work in logistics and we’ve see declines, plus we have truckers saying that the roads to the docks (living on an island it’s the only way to do large volume exports) have light traffic, which isn’t good for the Ireland in general.

Ireland like the Games industry is a victim of its own success. Lots of easy money without much oversight, lead to all sorts of things happening that shouldn’t have happened. I’ve been playing games since the 80s and it’s got to the point now it’s either a FPS or a RTS. The Games industry has been producing title after title of reskinned FPSs. I’m not saying all AAA titles are crap, just not pushing the envelope anymore, is there even anymore envelope to push? Like Ireland they were producing over priced crap that sold because there was sooo much “cheap cash” / credit, people were buying anything and everything. Some of the best games I’ve played recently are things like Braid, Castle Crashers, Audiosurf; all are cheap high quality games.

I think the Dot Com boom/bust has played its part in this credit crunch. It’s not directly the problem but I think over reliance on credit began as a way to hide stock losses. Then this cycle of credit reliance trickled down the food chain. The problem with people over borrowed is the money they make is given back to the banks to pay off loans, so they don’t spend cash on new stuff to fuel the economy. Companies then go out of business as they can’t get cash, now normally when this happens the banks are taking in money and giving it back out to Companies to prop them up, but this time there’s a fundamental flaw in the way credit garnitures of banks is asses & managed which has caused the problem with banks now being unable to put money back in the system because of bad debt in the sub-prime markets. They’ve made unbelievable mistakes is their risk evaluation before given large sums of money to people, so we now have to pay for it.

As for collecting, I’m spending money like a drunken sailor on whore leave. Because once it hits I won’t be buying any more and want to have a stock pile. I’m like a squirrel with his nuts!

[magicsp00n]

I'm also a game developer. (plug: my latest game came out last week - try it out!) So far I haven't been caught in the rolling waves of layoffs, but I'm definitely feeling the pinch. I took a job transfer just as the housing market cratered and was unable to sell my house. I'm now a reluctant absentee landlord.

A few months ago I decided to implement a new policy for my collection that I call the Perpetual Robot Fund. Basically, I've decided that money for collecting can't come out of pocket, so if I want to get a new toy I have to sell something to fund it. It's working out really well. It encourages me to clean out the closet and put some of my old stuff in the hands of somebody else who wants it more, and it keeps the funds flowing so I can pick up the new items I really care about. I also don't have to feel bad about buying a big ticket item, since that money comes right out of the collection anyway.

I've been surprised at how much stuff I had sitting around that I didn't care about. Toys, games, books, CDs, all can be converted into cash for new stuff.

[VFTF1]

Interesting that so many of you guys are game developers It almost makes me want to get into video games. I rememberi n college we had a Dreamcast and our dorm (which was the smallest dorm on campus - very cool, only about 20 guys in total in this one little house) - would all get together and play Soul Caliber. Beyond that, as a child of the 80s, I am a huge fan of the original Nintendo Entertainment System and have emulators of all of the games. Call me crazy, but I love Mike Tyson's Punch Out, Super Mario 2, and the whole shabang of offerings from back then - and prefer to play that old stuff to newer games with better graphics.

Ireland like the Games industry is a victim of its own success. Lots of easy money without much oversight, lead to all sorts of things happening that shouldn’t have happened.

Ah - I love hearing about Ireland's misery nowadays - not because, heaven forbid, I wish you ill - no. But early last year there were elections held in Poland, and the party that won had this campaign slogan "we'll give you an economic miracle" and their main stump speech line was "we'll make Poland like Ireland" (back then, Ireland was still worth pointing to).

Well - as I like to say: they suceeded. We too are mired in debt and headed for depression We're just like Ireland

Pete

[505thAirborne]

This financial crisis is so messed up, I've been collecting since my 1st Macross toy in 1985, yes by some weird factor there were 2 of the Japanese release SDF-1's at a Toys'R'us. (Are they still in business??) But now a days its spend money on only what you really need. I've been running my home business for about 7 years now Via Ebay and my website, but the times being what they are, Thats why I am living here in Lawrence, KS now instead of sunny Temecula, CA with an ocean breeze all day!! Also I do have some family here, thats helps a bit!!

But at this point it doesn't matter whether you make video games, your a teacher, retail or a home business. Right now its Darwin's theory at its best until things get better, And really sad that companies like Bandai & Yamato are teasing us with all these new toys that most (Not all) but most us really can't afford. I mean come on, wouldn't we all love to have a mass collection of these Valkyries, I know I would.

Yet reality for me is a trip the mechanic this week for my truck, rent, food and resupply for my Business. Ebay: 505th82ndairborne if your curious....

So in all seriousness, good luck to everyone and I hope you all can hang in there with your jobs and lifestyles, Financially things have to get better, right??

Edited February 23, 2009 by 505thAirborne

[DarrinG]

My rule has been only items from the original Macross or Mospeada TV series.

No DYRL, no Zero, Plus etc, etc. So unless Yamato comes out with a green TV version Q-Rau I will not be getting one.

But even avoiding Megahouse and CMs altogether, there's has been so much that's still come out that fits in my guidelines!

I can point to 300 things I've passed up but the several I'm getting seem to all be pricey choices.

So I sold $1,000 worth of stuff on eBay to finance some of the new VF-1 v.2s, Destroids, Cyclones and Beta Fighters.

[anotheran]

During this time I'm been building up my collection. People are selling a lot of their collections on ebay so I've had some good pickings. But prices for toys such as Macross and Transformers Binaltech aren't ridiculously low but more inline with MSRP.

I hope everyone here is able to weather the financial storm cuz I really like looking at the photos of your collections. I wish I had so many valks.

[Radd]

I used to fund my Macross toy hobby entirely on my freelance art and CG modeling business. Unfortunately, the economy has taken its toll on that.

I was hoping to buy every single 1/60 VF-1 version 2 release, but that's just not possible at the moment. I'll get a few. The Elintseeker and Super Ostrich currently topping the list. Beyond that, I'm definitely getting a set of DX Frontier toys. Already have Ozma and Alto, going to pick up Mikhail and Luca as soon as they're available, and at least one of Luca's Ghost fighters. The Quarter is a must-have, too. Also still planning on Yamato's 1/60 VF-11. I'll be pacing all these out, of course. I'm glad the SDF-1 isn't coming until next year. I'm pretty frugal, and can definitely save up enough to spare on that with the time we've got.

[do not disturb]

the economy sucks but that isn't what kept me from buying toys.

its really the asking price for most of these toys.

i'd like to get the destroids but for $100+?, they can smoke my cock.

i await the VF-11FB release but i won't be picking it up until a few months after.

i have no desire in paying the i-gotta-have-it-first-so-bend-over-for-me price.

[505thAirborne]

the economy sucks but that isn't what kept me from buying toys.

its really the asking price for most of these toys.

i'd like to get the destroids but for $100+?, they can smoke my cock.

i await the VF-11FB release but i won't be picking it up until a few months after.

i have no desire in paying the i-gotta-have-it-first-so-bend-over-for-me price.

I couldn't have said it better!!!

[bandit29]

My collecting habits haven't changed...I still don't buy much...well I used to buy alot. I collected stuff for 20 years. I stopped during the 1/48 "era" I still buy things (as in cheap lol) from time to time but I'm not the avid collector I once was. A few years ago I wouldn't give a second thought on blowing 150.00 plus on a Valkyrie..not now though.

My hobbies have switched to videogames only since I feel I get more for my money.

I work in fastener sales. Screws, bolts, nuts etc. Ya things have been slow the last 6 months. We're doing enough to get by but that's about it. My building has other types of businesses in it too and they are slow as well. Most of the trucks that come in here are half empty. The dock is dead most of the time. Alot of the companies I know or work with are on 4 day work weeks. I've had a few myself. A few of my friends are out of work. My brother-in-law got let go two weeks before Christmas. Good times....ugh

[505thAirborne]

My collecting habits haven't changed...I still don't buy much...well I used to buy alot. I collected stuff for 20 years. I stopped during the 1/48 "era" I still buy things (as in cheap lol) from time to time but I'm not the avid collector I once was. A few years ago I wouldn't give a second thought on blowing 150.00 plus on a Valkyrie..not now though.

My hobbies have switched to videogames only since I feel I get more for my money.

I work in fastener sales. Screws, bolts, nuts etc. Ya things have been slow the last 6 months. We're doing enough to get by but that's about it. My building has other types of businesses in it too and they are slow as well. Most of the trucks that come in here are half empty. The dock is dead most of the time. Alot of the companies I know or work with are on 4 day work weeks. I've had a few myself. A few of my friends are out of work. My brother-in-law got let go two weeks before Christmas. Good times....ugh

Fasteners sales huh, DOT & Scovill by chance?? two weeks before Christmas, that is just cruel!!!

[logos]

I work in the Canadian Agriculture industry. I am the CAD administrator (I admin the CAD and computer software/hardware for R&D and do CAD work as well) for a Seeding and Hay equipment manufacturer. So far we have only been hit lightly by the credit crunch. Farmers still want to buy seeding equipment (especially since the fertilizer market crashed) but the only places we are running into problems are places like Russia and Kazakhstan where the Corp. farms are having trouble getting credit. You wouldn't believe what large seeding equipment costs! You could be looking at 1/2-1 million US by the time everything is said and done. I feel fairly confident about where we are (Sales are up from last year) but you never know so I put plans on buying a house on hold and consolidated all my dept to:

1 lower my monthly payments

2 to get it all paid off faster (I had gov. student loans set to pay off over a 10 year period).

So far the only hit I have seen is my retirement fund which is all in stocks. Unfortunately for most our company uses an general investment plan thats all in stock "packages" that the employees have to manage themselves. Fortunately for me I kind of saw the writing on the wall in the beginning of 2008 so once I shifted my investment plan I didn't get hit too hard, but who knew bonds would start sucking to!

Anyways I started collecting my Macross stuff about 1-1/2 to 2 years ago. I was always a fan of Robotech when I was a kid but hadn't discovered Macross till I went to Tech. and I saw Macross Plus for the first time when if came out in NA. This snowballed into discovering what the differance was between Robotech and Macross and I have been a Macross freak ever since. I stated with a VF-0 (when I discovered Macross Zero), saying to myself...."I'll just buy one. THAT'S IT!". Oh that was a mistake. A YF-19 quickly followed (when I found it on sale) and ever since the summer of 2008 I have started buying like 1 or 2 toys every 2 months. I'm trying to stick to Yamato 1/60s but I feel those 1/48s a calling some days. My last purchase was the hyper expensive YF-21 and I just got confirmation from Overdrive of my VF-1D and VF-1J shipping today. I think I am done for awhile though, well until the VT-1 comes out and then I'll probably finally break down and try to get a VF-25 DX (I'll finally have a Bandai!?!?!) at the same time. You never know about the economy and unless they release a Destroid Spartan there is nothing else I really want. Well, I am drooling over the Yamato SDF-1 but I'll have to wait to see what shipping will be for that monster cause that might kill it for me, even though I really want it.

Oh and maybe a Bandai 1/100 VF-25, VF-27, VF-4 oh and eventually a VF-11B......OH MY GOD MAKE IT STOP! It's snowballing like my Amazon habit, which has slowed down significantly but I think that is only cause I shifted it to Macross toys. Seriously though considering the way the economy has gone I really need to look at stopping. Afterall my truck needs tires.....

Edited February 23, 2009 by logos

[NSJ23]

I'm continuing to be very picky with my collection, I'm not buying any VF-1 version 2's or 100+ non transforming mechs only buying certain VF-25 DX and catching 1/48's and the macross Zero 1/60's on sale since the interest in them is dying. I traded for my VF-21 and got lucky and caught my YF-19 fast pack on sale before the prices jumped. the short version is that i'm continuing to collect but doing what ever i can to spend the least amount of money on each purchase.

[OmegaD3k]

The interactive/video game industry is recession proof, so I've heard. Hasn't effect me in the least bit.

Still going to get all two-seaters VF-1, the VF-11B, amongst many other film related memorabilia this year.

[do not disturb]

honestly, if i actually played with these toys they might be worth the money but every time i get a new macross toy, i'll transform it once or twice then display it on a shelf, thats it. at $200 a pop, the cost of admission is kind of steep when all i'm doing is staring at something. in the end, it could be the most awesomeness toy in the world but it just seems like i'm not getting much bang for my buck.

as far as work, i work in furniture retail and run a skateshop on the side.

the furniture business is sort of hurting but they're staying afloat. i'm actually looking for another job right now in case something happens, plus i'm kind of over working there any way.

the skateshop(i run it out of my apartment) is actually thriving. its turning a profit and covering most if not all my expenses. i just need to give up drinking and smoking, then i might actually see some more of that money, ha!

[physioguy]

I'd like to say i was lucky too, but...

I am going to sell a great deal of my collection. Not the Macross stuff, of course, but everything else, from Diaclones, Transformers, Hao Pride Figures, lego, pinky street, star wars etc...

We bought our apartment 5 years ago, and with a 1 year old baby, we decided to move into a larger apartment and rent it while renting ours out. We'll just wait for the market to settle before we buy another place, and our rent in is $50 more than what we pay out (of course we have some added expenses at both, so we're probably losing out a little). Anyways, I'm just selling because I realized I like Macross over all else.

Ebay will be full of my stuff in the next week or so.

[nghia59]

Well for me the issues are...

1.) no immediate income

2.) no prospective employment because of lack of lending to publishers

3.) the games inustry made more money than the history of games last year but is tanking for reason 2

4.) Yamato is releasing too much cool stuff all at once

5.) HLJ seems to be dumpping their Macross stock

6.) cost of living is still rediculous given the economic conditions

Man, the stingyness of banks is really messing with how things should opperate. I should be very gainfully employed given the history and track record of where games have gone bussiness wise. But the lack of investment capitol is solely the reason for how this mess is getting out of hand even for profitable industries that are prooven money makers. The game I was working was literally cancled so the publishers could scavange the remaining budget for other projects because of the money crunch. Nothing wrong with the project otherwise. Sad. Oh yeah, and I think something like 15 independent game developers went out of business in the last 18 months while almost everyone outside of Activision and CAPCOM has had lay-offs.

- Nghia

Edited February 23, 2009 by nghia59

[Jasonc]

In times like this, unfortunately in hard times, it means job security for me. Although my job is about as secure as one can be, I suppose, it's still a scary thing to see so many friends have to deal with issues such as this. I work in civilian law enforcement, so the more crazy people get, the more crime rises. Likewise, the more crime rises, the more we're needed. I'm still able to buy the toys I want, but have been a little more wary of what I order, simply because of the dollar to yen rate, which is an atrocity. Also, I've been putting money away for the "rainy day" and to save for a house and all that as well. I do feel for those of you having to ride out the storm of this economy, cause I've been there more than once before. It's not a fun ordeal, but if anything, having friends and support does help, and what doesn't kill you can make you stronger, if you allow your mentality and actions to build character. Sounds stupid, and like a cliche, I know, but the fact is, nobody can change what's happening, they can only work things out for themselves and their respective families.

[nugundamII]

Condos muhahahahahahahahah

cough cough

Friggen overpriced filing cabinets Cant knock out a wall and build an addition to increase the value and you are a slave to the market if you ever want to increase your equity. Also condo designers are always trying to figure out how to decrease the living space by increasing funky ways of moving walls and sh it.

Buy a house. Wait for the market to plummet! wait till it starts rising again and wait for a bit keep on eye on interest rates and then buy the biggest piece of sh it on the block and start fixing it and sell it again. then you can get your dream home. But I dont think we will be out of this market for a while. Me Im renting with my "other???". My daughter is going to the best of daycares and lots of extra curricular activities too. Lots of money spent on her things WE need and of course the collection. I rent a whole house with 5 bedrooms double car garage 4 bathrooms and a mans cave. Why cause its easier to live. All that crap about " PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP" bull sh it that realestate companies try to sell you! Yeah I have two friends that are very proud that the bank will take owenership ahahahaha one can barely eat now!!!!

The thing is one should look at renting or Renting from a bank as something that is required if you live in a city. That is a cost of living in a city. If you have your house paid off all you have to worry about are the water, heat maintenance and property taxes which is like renting nonetheless. In other words your paying either way. The benefit of one is that you are more mobile and can be more resistant to economic downturn. The other your pride of owning something after the last installment of your payment to the bank. Whats funny here is that the bank says you own it when in reality its the bank and when they take it back due to nonpayment you still owe the money on it hhaahahahaha

Funny thing there was no consideration on the part of the bank of giving you the money. They created it you owe it!.

Anyhoo I work for a large International crap F ck company. In fact the sh it est tech company in the world. As a contractor Jr. PM i am not making much through this dubious agency.not to long ago I was called and told they would cut my wage by 10% but funny thing company posted huge profits and was able to pay off bonus'. This whole thing is about double speak. I keep 30k in a shoe box. IM NOT KIDDING. 30 k will help a lot when you need to run away, cause I dont trust banks.

Period. I drive a 2004 Elantra GT which I have only added some mods take care of it. I have baought my "other?????" the same car in cash so nothing owing on it. Paid of both insurances for the year so nothing owing there. Paid of My internet for the year and cancelled crap cable becuase its a stupid box!

SO I have some luxary. I dont pay for heat, water or property taxes. In fact I am going to figure a way not to pay my taxes anymore either! Cause if the poor dont and neither do the rich why should I. Trust me save your cash in a box and keeping feeding the hole" as romeo once said. Its really cool too to see all those bills!!!!! its like collecting comics it keeps on growing and growing. Sorry about the grammatical error working at the same time is difficult.

My contract runs out soon so I will find out ... with my portfolio im not worried tho. Even if I get stupied pay I will manage

as I always have without selling my collection!

[jenius]

In times like this, unfortunately in hard times, it means job security for me. Although my job is about as secure as one can be, I suppose, it's still a scary thing to see so many friends have to deal with issues such as this. I work in civilian law enforcement, so the more crazy people get, the more crime rises. Likewise, the more crime rises, the more we're needed. I'm still able to buy the toys I want, but have been a little more wary of what I order, simply because of the dollar to yen rate, which is an atrocity. Also, I've been putting money away for the "rainy day" and to save for a house and all that as well. I do feel for those of you having to ride out the storm of this economy, cause I've been there more than once before. It's not a fun ordeal, but if anything, having friends and support does help, and what doesn't kill you can make you stronger, if you allow your mentality and actions to build character. Sounds stupid, and like a cliche, I know, but the fact is, nobody can change what's happening, they can only work things out for themselves and their respective families.

On the topic of civilian law enforcement, my GF is also in that industry. While you're right, it's certainly stable, all sorts of local governments have hiring freezes right now. My girlfriend was promoted and then told she'd have her spot after the hiring freeze cleared and now has found out that the spot she was to get has been eliminated. So, while she's got no fear of losing her current job, it sucks that she's not going up any time soon.

Putting your money in a box is crazy if you live in the US. For one, it will make you paranoid way more often and two, your money is insured at a bank... even one that goes under. The economy needs your cash in banks right now anyway so you could do your part to help and there's no risk to you.

[nugundamII]

On the topic of civilian law enforcement, my GF is also in that industry. While you're right, it's certainly stable, all sorts of local governments have hiring freezes right now. My girlfriend was promoted and then told she'd have her spot after the hiring freeze cleared and now has found out that the spot she was to get has been eliminated. So, while she's got no fear of losing her current job, it sucks that she's not going up any time soon.

Putting your money in a box is crazy if you live in the US. For one, it will make you paranoid way more often and two, your money is insured at a bank... even one that goes under. The economy needs your cash in banks right now anyway so you could do your part to help and there's no risk to you.

riiiiight!!! Leave the money with the banks who um practice zero reserving????? and Oh um and apparently all those MBA execs didnt know what was going to happen with the whole mortgage scam whatever my money is staying and going into the box! Insured. Right! who is insuring the insurance???

One thing I learned about the chinese! Nothing better than cold hard CASH!!!!!!

CASH CASH !! Love it. Feels better in my hands than the banks who give me a measly return! I lost 2000 on my mutual fund no thanks Love the cash and looks like I will need to get another shoe box cause that is the Bank of Nugundam! Insured by 170 Pounds of lean and Mean Muscle!

[CF18]

riiiiight!!! Leave the money with the banks who um practice zero reserving????? and Oh um and apparently all those MBA execs didnt know what was going to happen with the whole mortgage scam whatever my money is staying and going into the box! Insured. Right! who is insuring the insurance???

One thing I learned about the chinese! Nothing better than cold hard CASH!!!!!!

That is rather uninformed. Saving (up to 250k) in a regular bank account is insured by FDIC, i.e. US government. If that fail, which means the US government fail, your cold hard cash will be as useful as Zimbabwe dollar. If you are seriously worried, that shoe box should have cold hard gold and ammo.