Macross Frontier Episode 24 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Final Vegeta]

I think Ranka's eyes look red while she sings "Ai Oboete Imasu ka?" in "hologram" form.

Ranka's eyes were always red

FV

[Gin]

Ranka's eyes were always red

FV

Its just easier to see her eye color.

[wolfx]

Well all i have to say is bring on ep 25 and it better gimme some answers or everyone will hear me whining.

[Shun]

Duh... Am I wrong or the song I heard Ranka sing during the main battle between Frontier and the Vajra was the same I heard in DYRL?

Besides... We can always have these guys to back me up...

DYRL ZENTRADI ARMOR DESIGNS... (Some from the TV show too...)

hmm i think u're abit confused.

imagine you r living in the macross universe in 205x, what you know about SW1 is via DYRL the very famous movie that gets lots of remakes... obviously for theatrical purposes many events would've been tweaked and not exactly factual. Even though there might be lots of historical facts that deny certain events, the commoner will only know about the DYRL movie, and not know which parts are factual and which parts are exaggerated for the viewer impact. Many people will not be bothered with facts.

A real life example will be the historical Record of Three Kingdoms vs the novelized and very exaggerated Romance of Three Kingdom. Many people "know for a fact" that Guan Yu killed 6 generals to get back to his master, and also the story where Zhuge Liang "borrowed" arrows from enemies by tricking them into shooting at boats full of straw, when these stories are proven to be totally false!

So imagine in the Macross universe, the common person will think that DYRL song was really the song sung by Minmay at the end of SW1, that the "new" designs of the Zents were already in use back in SW1 days. Whether it is indeed factual is another thing altogether.

Even if the series now confirms that DYRL was really a PC song, it doesn't automatically guarantees that it was sung back in SW1 by Minmay. The DYRL song and any other additional info regarding the PC could be the result of investigations into the PCs and the origin of mankind and Zents after the latters' alliance.

I don't understand why Ranka's song will help the Vajra now when in the past it confused them? Also it reminds of of Sara and the birdman last episode of M:Zero.

A lot has to do with Ranka's emotions and thoughts. Ranka is now convinced by her brother to protect the vajra and destroy the invaders. Previously she was more concerned with the safety of Frontier and her SMS friends, thus the vajra were confused. The unexpected interference also contributes to the confusion.

I am beginning to believe Sheryl's earrings are harbingers of bad lucks, Alto's VF-25F was destroyed when Alto was having the first earning and now his VF-171 EX was destroyed when he had the second earring ! If you see Sheryl's earrings don't pick them up !

yes those earrings are jinxed. but there's a secret to it.

if u wear or hold on to only one, you're jinxed. Alto's VF destroyed in both occasions, Sheryl's popularity down the drain and even her life seems to be at an end.

however, if u own both, you will be lucky and everything goes your way. Thats why Sheryl was so popular before she loaned one away.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Shun

[Gubaba]

Well I agree with Kronnang (yes, I was just as shocked too... ).

With the liner notes in the first OST, the spectre that SDFM may be relegated to a TV series with in the universe has been revealed to the masses. Whether that becomes official, we don't know (from a business point of view it is the only Macross that is not solely owned by BigWest thus could never be marketed internationally without Tatsunoko's involvement).

That wasn't what the liner notes said. They said that "Triangler" was the theme song for a "trendy drama" (which is a kind of Japanese soap opera, sometimes historical, but definitely NOT an action show) about Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay.

Is there action in SDFM? Yes.

Is "Triangler" the theme song of SDFM? No.

It was a joke, and a way to give the song some in-universe context. It wasn't a blueprint for a retcon.

Besides, Macross Chronicles is very clear about this: SDFM is WHAT HAPPENED. It's in the Timeline, it's in the History Sheet, it's in the World Guide and Technology Sheets. DYRL isn't. And if Macross Chronicle isn't jumping on the chance to retcon, then it's not in Big West's plan (at least, not yet... )

As for why DYRL is used in Frontier, well...it's still a legendary song, isn't it? Think of it like Celin Dion's Titantic song. Of course it didn't actually get played on the real Titanic at all, but it makes us think of the Titanic, doesn't it? (And, usually, makes us want to vomit...but that's another story.)

[Sumdumgai]

We're going to find out that Brera is actually Shery's biological brother, and Ranka just calls him her brother due to being raised with him. Ranka winds up with Brera (if he and/or she doesn't die), Alto winds up with Sheryl, Klan Klan survives, Lucca bites it, Nanase continutes to pine after Ranka, Ozma stays with Cathy, and Grance and Leon go to hell. Just another random idea by sumdumgai.

[Final Vegeta]

We're going to find out that Brera is actually Shery's biological brother, and Ranka just calls him her brother due to being raised with him. Ranka winds up with Brera (if he and/or she doesn't die), Alto winds up with Sheryl, Klan Klan survives, Lucca bites it, Nanase continutes to pine after Ranka, Ozma stays with Cathy, and Grance and Leon go to hell. Just another random idea by sumdumgai.

Didn't we have a thread for that?

FV

[TehPW]

Well I agree with Kronnang (yes, I was just as shocked too... ).

With the liner notes in the first OST, the spectre that SDFM may be relegated to a TV series with in the universe has been revealed to the masses. Whether that becomes official, we don't know (from a business point of view it is the only Macross that is not solely owned by BigWest thus could never be marketed internationally without Tatsunoko's involvement).

...

Does Kawamori / BigWest have the right to change their minds about what exactly constitutes the story of SW1?

Yes.

Have they?

Maybe...

Interesting facts from Frontier that support the notion that DYRL may in someway have historical relevance to SW-1.

- The DYRL type of body armor worn by the Zentreadi

- Ai Oboetimasu Ka being aggressivley reacted to by the Vajra

- The bumpy headed Mr.Bilar similar to the character designs of DYRL (first seen in Mac 7)

Are a few examples of the "changes" we've seen.

Keep in mind that a month ago many were adamant that no SDF's were built after the Macross and that proved to be incorrect.

Now these are in no way proof that SDFM is no longer historical canon, however it does raise the question if it will continue to be in the future.

Certainly is the way to go if you want to shed unwanted or undesirable materials, such as materials you can't make any money off, anymore (Harmful Goblins, anyone). With all the legalize around the properties of SDFM, DYRL, M+, M7 (series) and MF, it's hella harder for those folks on Ze island to keep things cannon. Imagine if TOS was radioactive legally compared to TNG or later era shows? would that mean that ENT really was the base line cannon?

lots of people, i hope, prefer the cannon smack on the shoulders goes to DYRL. I mean, HG can't touch DYRL, doesn't dare touch it. But HG 'owns' their copy of SDFM and because of that complete shite pile, SK will always, ALWAYS have incentive to move away from SDFM, chaing things in any way possible.

I personally wish they would hit the reset button and recreate SDFM, to a modern audiance and with legalists in tow to ensure HG can suck radiator fluid. In a way, they did when they recreated DYRL. of course, when DYRL was made, the intent was far different (make some more $ on popular property...

i'll talk more on this when i'm less volitile. as for the Eps 24? I'm excited but i gotta wait a couple weeks more before i look at ther mecha pr0n...

[d3v]

My question is, when Alto flies through Ranka's "eye" why is it we get a flash of what seems to be the head/bridge of Battle Galaxy? Wouldn't it have made more sense to show Brera's 27, or something Ranka related instead? Or did they need to bait us with promises of Battle Galaxy vs Battle Frontier for the next ep?

Edited September 21, 2008 by d3v

[sketchley]

My take is that he's wearing those earrings with the fold quartz. Therefore, he sees past the illusion, and sees the source - the Battle Galaxy which is transmitting the signal from the bound up (crucified?) Ranka. Whom, given the lack of life in her eyes (typical anime dull-eye/all colour & no black technique), is under the control (mind control?) of someone else.

Which, IMHO, Aruto realizes and is about to do something about. And then Burera shows up. They fight. Aruto's VF-171EX is destroyed.

I won't be surprised if next episode has Aruto busting inside the Battle Galaxy in his EX Gear to save Ranka.

Edited September 21, 2008 by sketchley

[Beltane70]

Is it just me, or does the Vajra queen look a lot like the Quebeley?

It looks more like the Neue Ziel mobile armor from 0083 to me.

[VF-25 Messiah]

My take is that he's wearing those earrings with the fold quartz. Therefore, he sees past the illusion, and sees the source - the Battle Galaxy which is transmitting the signal from the bound up (crucified?) Ranka. Whom, given the lack of life in her eyes (typical anime dull-eye/all colour & no black technique), is under the control (mind control?) of someone else.

Which, IMHO, Aruto realizes and is about to do something about. And then Burera shows up.

More or less exactly how I saw it as well.

[d3v]

I've a feeling that when Ozma and co. show up, they'll be handing Alto back his old VF-25.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I've a feeling that when Ozma and co. show up, they'll be handing Alto back his old VF-25.

Oh believe it. It's gonna happen. Heck they'll give him an armored pack. It's in the opening even

[openget]

I was thinking Galaxy was hidden behind that giant Ranka hologram(?) as well, but then that makes you wonder how it got there without anyone noticing it..

[grss1982]

I was thinking Galaxy was hidden behind that giant Ranka hologram(?) as well, but then that makes you wonder how it got there without anyone noticing it..

No Vajra unit attacked the Dulfim when it got near the "Queen's Throne" as well.

BTW... I had just had this crazy idea....could we be possibly getting an ending where Frontier completely exterminates the Vajra ? IMHO, the Vjara have'nt been really developed as anything but mindless bugs or "tools" in the series.

[RichterX]

Oh believe it. It's gonna happen. Heck they'll give him an armored pack. It's in the opening even

Hopefully after Ozma falcon punches him again... the idiot deserves it.

[DeeBot]

Which wouldn't make much sense, and would relegate Zero to some alternate timeline.

Oddly enough, that may not be as outlandish as it sounds. At least according to the gg subs, Bilrer was muttering something about time and space and cause and effect being jumbled up by the monkeying around with fold physics that's going on in Frontier. I wouldn't be too surprised if time travel ultimately became involved.

[JustinStrife]

Hopefully after Ozma falcon punches him again... the idiot deserves it.

What did Alto do to deserve a falcon punch?

[Duke Togo]

Oddly enough, that may not be as outlandish as it sounds. At least according to the gg subs, Bilrer was muttering something about time and space and cause and effect being jumbled up by the monkeying around with fold physics that's going on in Frontier. I wouldn't be too surprised if time travel ultimately became involved.

Which would ruin this series. If Kawamori wants to pull some sort of gigantic retcon by taking that sort of nonsense onto the end of this series, he's lost me and I'm done.

[David Hingtgen]

I'm pretty sure Ranka's not directly being controlled by someone else at this point---much more like brain-washing.

Though I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grace tries to literally control/possess Ranka----we know that it's Ranka's voice that's the key, and it's due to her infection/genetics, not her "skill" as a singer---so Grace knows that if she truly wants to have control, she'll need Ranka's voice. And if Grace has hacked the vajra network or whatever, and they're all linked and compatible, then maybe Grace can download herself into a new body again--Ranka's, via her gut crystals. Grace is ambitious enough to not be content with merely ordering Ranka to do what Grace wants.

[NoNameSt11]

While time travel would be rather outlandish, Bilrer's comment could refer to something similar. Fold waves may behave like light and travel long distances without fading away. If this is true, then fold waves from somebody who can communicate through them could be intercepted years after they were originally broadcast. In a way, their message/personality/feelings would exist through all sense of space and time. Also of note is that the vajra network has been shown to amplify fold waves, ie: Ranka's song.

Now going out on an EXTREME limb here (aka: I really don't think this will happen), the preview for 25 says a mysterious figure shows up on the performance bridge of Battle Frontier. Minmei performed on a similar stage many years ago, so while her showing up in person may be impossible a "fold shadow" of her or some other performer MAY make an appearance. But this is a wild speculation that I'm doubtful of happening, mainly because she hasn't exhibited any ability to create fold waves. However, it could also be a "fold shadow" of Ranshe Mei singing Aimo because we know she was infected and sang the lullaby to Ranka as a child.

[NoNameSt11]

I'm pretty sure Ranka's not directly being controlled by someone else at this point---much more like brain-washing.

Though I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grace tries to literally control/possess Ranka----we know that it's Ranka's voice that's the key, and it's due to her infection/genetics, not her "skill" as a singer---so Grace knows that if she truly wants to have control, she'll need Ranka's voice. And if Grace has hacked the vajra network or whatever, and they're all linked and compatible, then maybe Grace can download herself into a new body again--Ranka's, via her gut crystals. Grace is ambitious enough to not be content with merely ordering Ranka to do what Grace wants.

Higher nodes in the network hold an influence over lesser nodes, so brain-washing does sound better. However, I don't think Grace will possess her because she's aiming to replace the Queen. Ranka's the cipher to decode the vajra network allowing Grace to take control, not so much the leader of it.

[RichterX]

While time travel would be rather outlandish, Bilrer's comment could refer to something similar. Fold waves may behave like light and travel long distances without fading away. If this is true, then fold waves from somebody who can communicate through them could be intercepted years after they were originally broadcast. In a way, their message/personality/feelings would exist through all sense of space and time. Also of note is that the vajra network has been shown to amplify fold waves, ie: Ranka's song.

Now going out on an EXTREME limb here (aka: I really don't think this will happen), the preview for 25 says a mysterious figure shows up on the performance bridge of Battle Frontier. Minmei performed on a similar stage many years ago, so while her showing up in person may be impossible a "fold shadow" of her or some other performer MAY make an appearance. But this is a wild speculation that I'm doubtful of happening, mainly because she hasn't exhibited any ability to create fold waves. However, it could also be a "fold shadow" of Ranshe Mei singing Aimo because we know she was infected and sang the lullaby to Ranka as a child.

might be Ranshe, she already contacted Ranka when she was captured by the Vajra the first time in Mother's Lullaby and it wasn't clear if it had been that Ranka remembered or what happen considering all the floating ghost like people we have seen over the episodes. For example the scene during Sheryl's sayonara concert in which she was floating with Ranka meant they tap for moment into the network, that is why Alto and Brera heard their song inside the Vajra cruiser. That would also explain why we saw a floating ghost Sheryl in the first episode during her fold flight to frontier, she was tapping into the network while she was sleep due to the earrings.

[Final Vegeta]

That would also explain why we saw a floating ghost Sheryl in the first episode during her fold flight to frontier, she was tapping into the network while she was sleep due to the earrings.

No, this happened even while folding in ep. 18. I read the ethereal body leaves the body while folding in one of the older threads, but now I'm not able to find the source.

FV

[wolfx]

My take is that he's wearing those earrings with the fold quartz. Therefore, he sees past the illusion, and sees the source - the Battle Galaxy which is transmitting the signal from the bound up (crucified?) Ranka. Whom, given the lack of life in her eyes (typical anime dull-eye/all colour & no black technique), is under the control (mind control?) of someone else.

Which, IMHO, Aruto realizes and is about to do something about. And then Burera shows up. They fight. Aruto's VF-171EX is destroyed.

I won't be surprised if next episode has Aruto busting inside the Battle Galaxy in his EX Gear to save Ranka.

That's what i suggested.

But Ranka is probably physically still on the planet rather than on the Galaxy. Last we saw of her, Ai Kun took her to the queen's lair and she was staring face to face with the queen that doesn't quite look alive.

No Vajra unit attacked the Dulfim when it got near the "Queen's Throne" as well.

BTW... I had just had this crazy idea....could we be possibly getting an ending where Frontier completely exterminates the Vajra ? IMHO, the Vjara have'nt been really developed as anything but mindless bugs or "tools" in the series.

Cuz effectively they were under Grace's command by then.

[dreamweaver13]

Ok i have to mention this just in the hopes to crash your dreams but...

what if the photo of the the baby is the original Sheryl Nome, but Grace killed her and all relatives of Mao just for revenge and then gave the name Sheryl Nome to that random orphan she found.

not really a "burst your bubble" epipihany, since i actually tought of that too (yeah, paranoia has its advantages). but really, we're gonna have a convoluted explanation about there being a "real" sheryl that was killed, and a street orphan that was given that name just for spite (and given the earrings and a dash of special AB blood just to make the illusion more convincing) in a span of one episode?? how to even tie that in with the rest of the unresolved plot points is mind-boogling.

actually, my thought on this is that ep25 won't even mention it anymore. it's not essential to the plot.She's sheryl nome (as she would remind you every now and then) even if she's mao's granddaughter or not. the floating picture in ep 24 was just a subtle and touching nod to sheryl's true heritage, but we won't get any more about that in the finale. and from a story-telling point of view, i'm perfectly fine with that.

Edited September 22, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[dreamweaver13]

Duh... Am I wrong or the song I heard Ranka sing during the main battle between Frontier and the Vajra was the same I heard in DYRL?

Besides... We can always have these guys to back me up...

DYRL ZENTRADI ARMOR DESIGNS... (Some from the TV show too...)

yeah, of course.

pretty much like William Wallace really said "they can take away our lives, but they can never take... OUR FREEDOM!!!" and was the actual father of the next king of england.

pretty much like Eva Peron really sang "Don't cry for me Argentina" from her balcony.

Huh? what? they didn't?

now i WONDER where i could have gotten that idea. i SWEAR i saw it somewhere...

[dreamweaver13]

might be Ranshe, she already contacted Ranka when she was captured by the Vajra the first time in Mother's Lullaby and it wasn't clear if it had been that Ranka remembered or what happen considering all the floating ghost like people we have seen over the episodes. For example the scene during Sheryl's sayonara concert in which she was floating with Ranka meant they tap for moment into the network, that is why Alto and Brera heard their song inside the Vajra cruiser. That would also explain why we saw a floating ghost Sheryl in the first episode during her fold flight to frontier, she was tapping into the network while she was sleep due to the earrings.

'

I can now imagine the big whopping collective "WTF??!!!" and "OMFG!!!" from all of MW if it did turn out to be Minmay.

[striderhiryu]

The vajra queen looks very similar to the APHOS. even the head design is similar, however the image was not quite clear, can't wait to see next episode.

[daeudi]

My take is that he's wearing those earrings with the fold quartz. Therefore, he sees past the illusion, and sees the source - the Battle Galaxy which is transmitting the signal from the bound up (crucified?) Ranka. Whom, given the lack of life in her eyes (typical anime dull-eye/all colour & no black technique), is under the control (mind control?) of someone else.

Which, IMHO, Aruto realizes and is about to do something about. And then Burera shows up. They fight. Aruto's VF-171EX is destroyed.

I won't be surprised if next episode has Aruto busting inside the Battle Galaxy in his EX Gear to save Ranka.

I will resist the temptation to follow suit with some other posters, and therefore NOT start a thread titled:

"Watch Macross Plus Much, Shojii?""

[taksraven]

luca, you sneaky bastard!

Not as bad as what Shinji did to Asuka in the same situation. :lol:

Taksraven

[taksraven]

Alto is

NOT DEAD. Its called a cliff hanger.

Geez, folks, come on.

The cliffhanger is EXACTLY the same as the penultimate episode of DR WHO this year. A mind boggling twist that simply cannot be happening. I thought that Alto would *die* and I predicted it in the death thread beforehand. Yay for me.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

Hint:

If the earing was for anything, it was deus ex machina way to make him survive somehow.

1.) He got folded somewhere else (Quarter?)

2.) His body died but his conciousness got transfered to Grace and Ranka and that's where the real battle is fought.

So now its the matrix, eh??

[taksraven]

Got the impression Ranka was at the center of the spiral thingy, from where the the huge ethereal projection was coming from. Hard to tell though, since she was mostly in 'cyberspace' throughout the episode

Ranka = Rei Ayanami + I have seen this coming for a LOOOONNNNNGGG time.

Taksraven