QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 They haven't. The slide-up nose cone is a complete fiasco, because it makes battroid look wrong, and it makes a correct VF-1D impossible. ... Yeah ... it's a pity, really. I love the aggressive look of the bigchested and sunken headed 1/48. The 1/60 V2 has a more lithe aesthetic though that at the very least keeps it from being a smaller carbon copy of the 1/48, for better or for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 You guys really crack me up. A correct *anything* is impossible because of the amount of anime magic that goes into the transformations. Anime doesn't have to abide by physical reality, so the nose cones can get shorter in battroid mode and the fuselage can change length, and the two-seater heat shield can come out of a too-small fuselage, and big hands can come out of the tiny arms, and side covers can appear out of nowhere, etcetera ad nauseam. It doesn't surprise me that Yamato might use the same fuselage for the two-seaters. A single plastic mold can cost tens of thousands of dollars to create. By only using one mold for all variants, Yamato saves a LOT of money. That's called "economy". I know it makes the line-art guys mad as hell, but seriously, it's a business, and aside from a few oversensitive nerds on the internet, most people won't really care all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 You guys really crack me up. A correct *anything* is impossible because of the amount of anime magic that goes into the transformations. Anime doesn't have to abide by physical reality, so the nose cones can get shorter in battroid mode and the fuselage can change length, and the two-seater heat shield can come out of a too-small fuselage, and big hands can come out of the tiny arms, and side covers can appear out of nowhere, etcetera ad nauseam. Hi, I'm a 1/144th scale resin model with internal canopy shield and the proper nose section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I think the main bone of contention is that from the beginning, these V2's were being hyped up as "specially designed for two seater compatibility". With promises of accurate two seater designs, is it any surprise people are a little unhappy to see that they aren't really structurally different (when they should be) to the one seaters? Even just a little more length in the canopy would be great; there's space to do it, what with the higher collar on the two seaters, but comparing the end points on the canopy it looks like it has exactly the same footprint. When it comes down to it, they're still cutting new molds, for the chest, head, and cockpit, so the money on molds is already being spent, which kind of invalidates that argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) Hi, I'm a 1/144th scale resin model with internal canopy shield and the proper nose section. No, I'm sorry, that nose cone is clearly WAY too long because it doesn't look exactly like this line art: Also, the model you posted makes other compromises, with skinny arms and legs, and the hands are too small, and there are no side covers.. and... and... and... You see my point? Edited December 23, 2008 by Grand Admiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) When it comes down to it, they're still cutting new molds, for the chest, head, and cockpit, so the money on molds is already being spent, which kind of invalidates that argument. No, it really doesn't. Because one mold saved is still money saved. Why make two molds when one mold will do? You can't make a VF-1D without the different head, but you CAN make one using the same fuselage section. It will make some guys on the internet mad, but they'll still buy it anyway. Edited December 23, 2008 by Grand Admiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 A correct *anything* is impossible because of the amount of anime magic that goes into the transformations. Anime doesn't have to abide by physical reality, so the nose cones can get shorter in battroid mode and the fuselage can change length, and the two-seater heat shield can come out of a too-small fuselage, and big hands can come out of the tiny arms, and side covers can appear out of nowhere, etcetera ad nauseam That's not true! Anime always abides by physical reality and all anime artists are trained in physics, biology and chemistry adn the scripts are written by nobel prize winning scientists who are on the cutting edge of modern science. The nose cone has a quadro-nano-tech based reference shield frame modifier set at the thermal ionization pulse rate of 0.002, which allows it to seem shorted in pattroid mode and this process can in fact be replicated by the application of CAD 7 technology. Also the big hands come out of the tiny arms because they are multi-layered prong metal technology with mineral insertions of quart zero nexus plutonium fossiles. So I would recomend that you maybe read up a little bit before criticizing us for wanting a LITTLE bit of accuracy for such high priced figures. It doesn't surprise me that Yamato might use the same fuselage for the two-seaters. A single plastic mold can cost tens of thousands of dollars to create. By only using one mold for all variants, Yamato saves a LOT of money. That's called "economy". I know it makes the line-art guys mad as hell, but seriously, it's a business, and aside from a few oversensitive nerds on the internet, most people won't really care all that much. Tens of thousands of dollars? Puleese! The modern mass uber-tech production system, the use of "roundclock" B-7 workdrones and the advent of CAD 7 (mentioned above) have cut the working time in half. Six monkeys and a basset hound dog could make a Valkyrie Yamato mold for 25 cents. Instead of being so evil and greedy, Yamato should lower their prices to 1 USD per 1/60 VF-1 -that way the sales would go up and they could actually have more money - but that's called being smart instead of greedy. Also - as long as there are people like you out there willing to compromise and buy these so called "perfect transformation" figures - that is pay oodles of money just for hype instead of quality - then Yamato will never change and we'll never get the perfect Valkyrie - the posession of which is after all the purpose of life on Earth! So there. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Bahahahah! Thanks Pete, that was perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 No, it really doesn't. Because one mold saved is still money saved. Why make two molds when one mold will do? You can't make a VF-1D without the different head, but you CAN make one using the same fuselage section. It will make some guys on the internet mad, but they'll still buy it anyway. Because it's not two molds? One injection mold can easily cover both the head, chest, AND a new fuselage if they so desire. VFT1: You forgot they're up to new generation BS-9 drones which actually use protonic laser technology to precisely carve channels out of the steel in a quarter of the time of the B-7. Do TRY and keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Because it's not two molds? One injection mold can easily cover both the head, chest, AND a new fuselage if they so desire. The existing molds most likely already have the fuselage grouped together with some of the existing parts, like the legs/arms/tail section, etc. Usually parts are grouped together on molds if they use the same color plastic. The 1D forward fuselage is the same color as most of the legs, the wings, and the aft fuselage sections. They are using the same fuselage mold because it's cheaper to do it that way. "They could do it if they really wanted to" doesn't trump the economics of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 The existing molds most likely already have the fuselage grouped together with some of the existing parts, like the legs/arms/tail section, etc. Usually parts are grouped together on molds if they use the same color plastic. The 1D forward fuselage is the same color as most of the legs, the wings, and the aft fuselage sections. They are using the same fuselage mold because it's cheaper to do it that way. "They could do it if they really wanted to" doesn't trump the economics of the situation. Whether or not the existing fuselage is on the existing molds (which I'm sure it is) is irrelevant to the argument of "they would have to cut new molds", because plastic is cheap and there's a negligible cost loss to not using the fuselage made in the mold from the existing molds, IF they've already cut a new one (which, since they have a new head and chest, they have). What I'm saying is that their decision to not make a new fuselage design is one that wasn't done for cost purposes, at least, not for the cost of molds as you say. It may be impossible to do without redesigning the entire fighter, which is fine, except that everyone was told FROM THE BEGINNING that the fighter WAS redesigned for exactly that purpose... but it's not. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Whether or not the existing fuselage is on the existing molds (which I'm sure it is) is irrelevant to the argument of "they would have to cut new molds", because plastic is cheap and there's a negligible cost loss to not using the fuselage made in the mold from the existing molds, IF they've already cut a new one (which, since they have a new head and chest, they have). Wait, what? "Plastic is cheap"? You're suggesting they should mold something and just throw out the plastic? Really? Cutting molds isn't cheap, and it's entirely relevant. Why would they cut an entire new fuselage mold including development time, engineering, CAD work, mold cutting costs, etc. We're talking about a cost difference of tens of thousands of dollars just to accomodate your fantasy scenario of a slightly different fuselage section that's a tiny bit more line-art accurate. The cost is not irrelevant or negligible, it actually costs a whole lot of money. Do you actually know anything about plastics molding or are you just talking out of your ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Cutting molds isn't cheap, and it's entirely relevant. Why would they cut an entire new fuselage mold including development time, engineering, CAD work, mold cutting costs, etc. We're talking about a cost difference of tens of thousands of dollars just to accomodate your fantasy scenario of a slightly different fuselage section that's a tiny bit more line-art accurate. The cost is not irrelevant or negligible, it actually costs a whole lot of money. Do you actually know anything about plastics molding or are you just talking out of your ass? Dude - don't make me start again. Go read up on CAD-7 technology before you go running your mouth off. My aunt has a factory in China where she has trained orangotangs imported from Burma to make Macross toys - so I DO know what I'm talking about. It does not cost tens of thousands of dollars to make a slight re-work of an existing mold. Look at how Hasbro remolds some of its' existing molds - do you think that costs them thousands? No - it's as simple as blowing your nose. And everyone knows how accurate to the cartoons Hasbro's molds are. You clearly are stuck in the past with your inferior knowledge of toy engineering technology. Yes - back in the dark days of the first half of the month of December 2007 it still costs as much as you say but then my mom and her sister (my aunt) made a fanstastical discovery which allowed them to reduce that cost and since then they've been working in China making Masterpiece Transformers and other high end goods for 10 cents per mold - PER MOLD dude. These are facts. You merely have speculation on your side - nothing more. Also - you really have lots of nerve to question the vast wisdom and knowledge of members on this board who have all studied the REAL LIFE VF-1s!! So no - no body here is talking out of the a$$. Graham and Shawn have taken us on a field trip to Japan where we got to see the real VF-1 variable fighter and there they had the real measurements and we all measured the nose and we know how much it should be so you just go back to Georgia and play with all that red mud you guys have there. poo doo! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 You sir, win 100 internets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Wait, what? "Plastic is cheap"? Yes, yes it is. Cutting molds isn't cheap, and it's entirely relevant. You're quite right. Making an all new mold for one part is utterly ridiculous. However in this case a new mold is already required. Why would they cut an entire new fuselage mold including development time, engineering, CAD work, mold cutting costs, etc. Because it's part of the design? It's what was promised by graham from the beginning? Because there's already a new mold being made? We're talking about a cost difference of tens of thousands of dollars just to accomodate your fantasy scenario of a slightly different fuselage section that's a tiny bit more line-art accurate. Tens of thousands? To add an additional die cut to a new injection mold that's already being made? No. Not even close. Do you actually know anything about plastics molding or are you just talking out of your ass? Yes, yes I do. Would you like to see one of the prototype dies from our factory's latest product? Would you really like to continue this argument? It's all irrelevant anyway. What we get is what we get. Where are my internets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Fire up the tubes on the interwebs!!! We gots us a debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Yes, yes I do. Would you like to see one of the prototype dies from our factory's latest product? HEY!! That belongs to my mom! Whered you get it!? I'm gunna sew you! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 HEY!! That belongs to my mom! Whered you get it!? I'm gunna sew you! Pete Noooooooooooooooooo! No sewing. I prefer velcro. Mmmm.... velcro. Semi-permanent and painless. Fire up the tubes on the interwebs!!! We gots us a debate! The tubes can't stand a debate of that magnitude! It's a trap! Anyway. I like toys. Toys rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Fair enough. My frame of reference comes from my work with the LEGO company, and from the costs associated with their toys and molding. Nearly every omission or substitution of a piece was directly related to cost. Even saving $.10 on the cost of a set adds up quick when you're producing thousands of sets. I think money is a pretty simple explanation for why they wouldn't change the fuselage. Slap two seats in, new chest shield, new head. Done. It doesn't surprise me in the least that Yamato might be doing something different than what they "promised," especially if it might save them a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Fair enough. My frame of reference comes from my work with the LEGO company, and from the costs associated with their toys and molding. Nearly every omission or substitution of a piece was directly related to cost. Even saving $.10 on the cost of a set adds up quick when you're producing thousands of sets. I think money is a pretty simple explanation for why they wouldn't change the fuselage. Slap two seats in, new chest shield, new head. Done. It doesn't surprise me in the least that Yamato might be doing something different than what they "promised," especially if it might save them a few bucks. Yeah, definitely, when stuff is produced in the tens of thousands the pennies count a lot more. Collectors toys and the like have a bit more leeway since there's more of an individual markup and a lot lower quantity. Not to say the pennies don't count, but with complex pieces the real killer is labor. Snap fits vs. screws, how many parts, how many paint masks to be made, put on, and how many times it has to run through the spray booths ... ugh. It's a nightmare and a half. And I know, right? Companies not doing what was assumed that they'd do? Madness! When it comes down to it, I think it's really our own fault for assuming that it'd be perfect, since we have such high expectations . And what else is the internet for but complaining about things when they aren't perfect? It's certainly not for claiming indifference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Oh, and sorry to accuse you of talking out your ass... usually there's about a 99% chance that someone on the internet is, in fact, talking out their ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Oh, and sorry to accuse you of talking out your ass... usually there's about a 99% chance that someone on the internet is, in fact, talking out their ass. What?! Are you some kind of Southern Gentleman or something!? Apologizing to another person on the internets is a no no! Hasn't anyone learnt you how to flame? Dag. Now we'll have to go back to talking about the VF-1 1/60 v.2 A,D,J,S and...hey.. for all the trouble that someone went to putting them in alphabetical order - isn't E missing? Or does E not get to be there since strictly speaking it's not "VF-1E" but rather "VE-1" ? Does that mean we'd be off topic discussing the possibility of a VE-1 here? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Hmmmn. Superliner coach? HO? Walthers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 What?! Are you some kind of Southern Gentleman or something!? Apologizing to another person on the internets is a no no! Hasn't anyone learnt you how to flame? I.... uh.... YOU'RE UGLY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Oh, and sorry to accuse you of talking out your ass... usually there's about a 99% chance that someone on the internet is, in fact, talking out their ass. If it's any consolation, I've been told my ass is, in fact, quite smart. So I've been told, anyway. @David I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. Actually, in the interests of keeping my job, I'm going to erase that image from the internet now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Heh heh, I'll interpret that as a "yes" and that you didn't expect any model railroaders in a thread about anime transforming jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Actually, in the interests of keeping my job, I'm going to erase that image from the internet now Too late! I have already sent the picture to my mom at her factory in China and our imported orangotangs are belting out KOs as we speak! Mwahaha Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Heh heh, I'll interpret that as a "yes" and that you didn't expect any model railroaders in a thread about anime transforming jets. To be fair, it's not exactly a big crossover genre. I wonder when we'll see VE-1 and VT-1 protos. The various J's, A's, and S's are great and all, but those are really the ones I'm interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Yeah, me too. I have the version 1 1/60 VE-1 and the biggest problem is that everything that makes it cool (aka the dish on the back) is also full of major flop).... Having a honest to gosh v.2 VE-1 would be ultra gear ... same with VT.... although with the pictures of the 1D - I'm happy anyways. 1D is gonna be great. Also - correct me if I'm wrong- but this is the first to scale with Valkyrie Minmey figure we're getting, yes? And I am SOOOO happy that it's in TVdres... Although - will the VT therefore be DYRL based and also have Minmey - albeit wearing whatever it was she wore in DYRL? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie addict Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 she wore that ugly orange flight suit... problem is, who will Yamato add as a second pilot, Misa or Minmei...or just a figure with the ugly square helmet and people will let be whoever they want it to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 A couple things. 1) As always, the ones calmly lamenting flaws are overshadowed by the insane rantings of the meta-complainers. 2) Yamato's new VF-1D is using a new fuselage mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Chaos Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 So Hikaru 1S is out. Is the only difference between Hikaru and Roy's 1S heads the color of the "arrows" ? Roy's are yellow and Hikaru's are red? Pete Correct: I got my Hikaru 1S today and can confirm the following: Hikaru has red arrows with black outline and red dot Roy has yellow arrows with black outline and red dot. I was under the impression from some of the early shots that Hikaru was supposed to have a yellow dot but this is not the case. The only difference is the arrows. Damn this 1/60 line is like crack to me at the moment. I am incapable of stopping, Max 1S is good news for me since I'm not a huge fan of the 1A and this will buy me some time to gather some willpower before the eventual 1A (not TV I'll get that too) Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) 2) Yamato's new VF-1D is using a new fuselage mold. Source? Edited December 24, 2008 by Grand Admiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobber Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) You guys really crack me up. A correct *anything* is impossible because of the amount of anime magic that goes into the transformations. Anime doesn't have to abide by physical reality, so the nose cones can get shorter in battroid mode and the fuselage can change length, and the two-seater heat shield can come out of a too-small fuselage, and big hands can come out of the tiny arms, and side covers can appear out of nowhere, etcetera ad nauseam. It doesn't surprise me that Yamato might use the same fuselage for the two-seaters. A single plastic mold can cost tens of thousands of dollars to create. By only using one mold for all variants, Yamato saves a LOT of money. That's called "economy". I know it makes the line-art guys mad as hell, but seriously, it's a business, and aside from a few oversensitive nerds on the internet, most people won't really care all that much. No offence since it is all over with now, but your part of the "discussion" did inclued name calling, when noone eolse was ranting. At least you did apologize for the "talking out your ass" remark you later made to QuinJester. I also thought you posts came off as hostile while the rest of us were just talking about the toy. Yeah Yeah, maybe I'm being to sensative, but that's how I saw it too. Name calling gives the impression of a Rant. Chris Edited December 24, 2008 by Dobber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Admiral Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) I consider myself a nerd. I'm arguing on the internet about toys. I made a generalized statement about all of us being nerds. That's name-calling? Really? I actually enjoyed the debate with QuinJester yesterday. We came to a common ground. The "talking out your ass" remark is something that my friends and I say to each other when it seems like the other is BS'ing. Now we're just arguing about arguing about arguing and we've reached the NUH UH YOU DID IT FIRST stage. I'll go ahead and delete my retort above, since it serves no purpose. Edited December 24, 2008 by Grand Admiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts