Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread III *Read 1st Post*

[d3v]

The YF-24 was made by Shinsei Industries.

Shinsei Industry the makers of the VF-0, VF-1, VF-3000, VF-5000, VF-11, and VF-19.

As I predicted in my fic. :heh:

Likely the YF-24 is designed by Yang Neuman.

The VF-171 is likely designed by Algus Selzer.

You forget Basara asking for the ability to mount speakers on the wings.

[Graham]

We don't even know what the ICS is at this point. If it is indeed an "Inertia Control System" it sounds more like a limiter rather than a dampener/canceller. And the point of the argument was the stats (if true) because the VF-25/27 clearly outperforms its predecessor the VF-19/22...and even those had some crazy G's on the pilots. For those stats to be true, then the ICS has to be a sort of Inertia Canceller.....which to date has no real sci-fi explanation. (that i'm aware of anyway)

I'm gonna bet the ICS is some sort of Overtechnology derived system to allow the pilots to withstand high g-forces. It doesn't make sense to build a VF with such a high thrust to weight ratio if there is no way for your pilots to withstand it.

I imagine it's some sort of refinement of the gravity control system. Afterall, mankind has had 60 years to experiment on and refine the systems they discovered in the ASS-1.

If we can accept transforming planes, fold space, Pin Point Barriers, 60 foot humanoid aliens, etc accepting an inertial cancelling or damping system is not such a stretch IMO.

I did read a hard military sci-fi book recently, which had a fairly plausible explanation for an inertial cancelling system (inertial sump?). Although in a fighter sized craft it was limited to how much it could acctually reduce inertia. I forget the title and author. Have to try to dig it up when I get home.

And the term "real sci-fi explanation" made me chuckle.

Graham

[wolfx]

Oh and lets not forget that the ex-gear becomes into a "seat" when deployed in the VF-25. The pilot isn't even WEARING it. So even if it offers G protection like some believe it to have, it has to be by some advanced "magical" overtech since the pilot isn't even wearing the ex-gear.

Thus I think the statement was just a "hypothetical analogy" for purposes of comparison since a pilot can't "wear" an ex-gear while piloting the VF-25 anyway.

Edited September 18, 2008 by wolfx

[wolfx]

And the term "real sci-fi explanation" made me chuckle.

Graham

I meant to say "real science in fiction". But yeah that's pretty oxymoronic.

Do let me know what that book of yours explained about inertia cancelling. I'm quite interested.

[d3v]

Can't rule out that it's not the suit they were to go with the EX-Gear. Didn't someone hypothesize that the tight suit could possibly be a muscle suit of sorts that used small contractions to help regulate bloodflow. Also, seeing as the pilots don't wear seatbelts, it's possible that the EX-gear still connects to the suit when the pilot sits in it.

[wolfx]

Can't rule out that it's not the suit they were to go with the EX-Gear. Didn't someone hypothesize that the tight suit could possibly be a muscle suit of sorts that used small contractions to help regulate bloodflow. Also, seeing as the pilots don't wear seatbelts, it's possible that the EX-gear still connects to the suit when the pilot sits in it.

Even so.... we're not talking about blood flow to brain G-LOC kinda situations. I'm talking about literally turning into mush. No muscle suit is gonna help you with that.

[d3v]

Even so.... we're not talking about blood flow to brain G-LOC kinda situations. I'm talking about literally turning into mush. No muscle suit is gonna help you with that.

But G-LOC usually happens way before we get mushed brains. It's possible that (with the tech I described), the EX-gear suits help pilots cope better with G-LOC but it takes cybernetic augmentation to not get mushed brains.

Of course, we could always go the MGS4 route and attribute everything on nanomachines.

Edited September 18, 2008 by d3v

[Graham]

Shinsei Industry the makers of the VF-0, VF-1, VF-3000, VF-5000, VF-11, and VF-19.

AFAIK, Shinsei Industry DID NOT make the VF-0 and VF-1, unless this is a recent retcon.

Shinsei industry was not even formed until 2012 when the aerospace development divisions of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry and Stonewell Bellcom merged. Shinsei Industry's first project was the VF-5000.

I notice that the Macross Compendium now does mention Shinsei on both the VF-1 and VF-0 pages, but I'm pretty sure it didn't use to. I'm gonna have to check my old hard-copy print outs of the Compendium, printed before it went Wiki, cus' I'm pretty sure Shinsei wasn't previously listed on the VF-1 and VF-0 pages.

Definitely not recommending or trusting the Compendium as much as I used to.

Graham

[RedWolf]

AFAIK, Shinsei Industry DID NOT make the VF-0 and VF-1, unless this is a recent retcon.

Shinsei industry was not even formed until 2012 when the aerospace development divisions of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry and Stonewell Bellcom merged. Shinsei Industry's first project was the VF-5000.

I notice that the Macross Compendium now does mention Shinsei on both the VF-1 and VF-0 pages, but I'm pretty sure it didn't use to. I'm gonna have to check my old hard-copy print outs of the Compendium, printed before it went Wiki, cus' I'm pretty sure Shinsei wasn't previously listed on the VF-1 and VF-0 pages.

Definitely not recommending or trusting the Compendium as much as I used to.

Graham

Well the makers of the VF-0 and VF-1 were the same people before the merger.

[Graham]

Well the makers of the VF-0 and VF-1 were the same people before the merger.

Yes true, but Shinsei Industry as a corporate entity did not exist before 2012.

Graham

[badboy00z]

I don't think that there's absolutely no seat in the 25 if the pilot is not there. Quick, someone find a screen shot of the cockpit.

[wolfx]

I don't think that there's absolutely no seat in the 25 if the pilot is not there. Quick, someone find a screen shot of the cockpit.

There should be a seat otherwise the butt will not have anything to rest on.

But that's besides the point.

[anime52k8]

I don't think that there's absolutely no seat in the 25 if the pilot is not there. Quick, someone find a screen shot of the cockpit.

well, the EX-Gear IS the seat (it's like a valk, but rather than a robot that turns into a jet, it's a robot that turns into a chair),

and I think they just leave the EX-Gear in the plane unless the pilot ejects with it.

edit: as for the G compansation thing,

to quote the compendium (from the VF-15 entry):

First variable fighter with a seat which incorporates the biological anti-G boost system. This system stimulates the human body with laser, electromagnetic pulse, infrared, and other means to momentarily activate metabolic functions against stress.

the pilots survive high G's through systems that temporarily make the body more resilient to G loads up to a point. beyond that you still die.

I think in some way's it works like energy conversion armor, except on your flesh and bones.

Edited September 18, 2008 by anime52k8

[wolfx]

the pilots survive high G's through systems that temporarily make the body more resilient to G loads up to a point. beyond that you still die.

I think in some way's it works like energy conversion armor, except on your flesh and bones.

At least that explains why Guld was still concious when his eyeballs went popping while his skull and body were getting crushed.

[DarkReaper]

So I guess it just pumps you full of testosterone and painkillers when you disable the limiter, so you don't even notice that your lung is beginning to crush your heart and your neck is going to be snapped by the now 100kg Helmet.

Anyway with those g-forces they better have arm locks and neck braces, because I don't think anyone has enough muscle strength to keep his arms from flailing about in those planes, especially when you have lived your entire life in a 0.7g environment and have skinny arms like alto.

I mean seriously, some of the lame super nerds in my semester have more muscular arms than him.

[Final Vegeta]

The reference to 'beam grenade' puzzles me.

I think it's the charged shot with the rifle open

FV

[sketchley]

It was late last night when I finished translating and got around posting. Not sure where the 10 came from... numbers on the brain from all the stats???

I just picked it up as well Sketchley and it's DX 6, not DX 10. Ya nearly made me miss it going around asking for the wrong issue....LOL!

For the VF-171EX fans, here's a scan of the VF-171EX with and without FAST Packs and extra weapons from Great Mechanics DX 6

Graham

[sketchley]

AFAIK, Shinsei Industry DID NOT make the VF-0 and VF-1, unless this is a recent retcon.

Shinsei industry was not even formed until 2012 when the aerospace development divisions of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry and Stonewell Bellcom merged. Shinsei Industry's first project was the VF-5000.

(...)

Graham

What he said. Let's also not forget that the majority of people involved in the pre-SWI construction of the VF-0 and VF-1 were obliterated along with the rest of the population of Earth. So, even with the same company name, the company structure would've been radically different.

I have yet to see anything in Japanese that states that the YF-24 is a Shinsei Industry manufactured VF. Where'd that info come from?

[Kelsain]

I just picked it up as well Sketchley and it's DX 6, not DX 10. Ya nearly made me miss it going around asking for the wrong issue....LOL!

For the VF-171EX fans, here's a scan of the VF-171EX with and without FAST Packs and extra weapons from Great Mechanics DX 6

Graham

Cool, thanks, Graham! Although, I gotta say: While I lurve the VF-171EX w/ fast packs, the nekkid version in Alto's colors just doesn't do it for me. I like the black and red from M7, I like the fleet green on the cannon fodders, and I like the contrast of the white and grey, but it's just too plain in all white. I might photoshop this a little to see what Alto's teammates might look like in tan.

[ChronoReverse]

Even in Plus, they pulled stunts that are way too high for humans to withstand already ignoring Guld's final one. It should've been assumed there was some sort of inertial dampeners already.

Besides, if you have the ability to control gravity with any sort of finesse, the basics of inertial dampening become trivial.

[Graham]

Just reading Sketchley's translation of the Grea Mechanics DX 6 article and he translates the ISC as "Inertia Store Converter", which implies to me that the system somehow stores inertia and converts it into something else. Some form of energy perhaps?

Perhaps the green lighting we sometmes see when the VF-25 transforms is energy bleed off from the ISC?

Graham

[DarkReaper]

Infact without inertial dampening everyone and everything not tied down inside the macross would have been smashed into the nearest bulkhead as soon as the macross would have started any combat maneuvering. I just guess that they haven't managed to make them small enough to fit them into a VF, as they still feel the g-forces as seen in the constant grunting in all the Macross Plus dogfights.

However when Isamu put the engines on full throttle while under the influence of Sharon his head was relatively gently pushed into the seat so there has to be a reduction somewhere along the line.

[DarkReaper]

Just reading Sketchley's translation of the Grea Mechanics DX 6 article and he translates the ISC as "Inertia Store Converter", which implies to me that the system somehow stores inertia and converts it into something else. Some form of energy perhaps?

Perhaps the green lighting we sometmes see when the VF-25 transforms is energy bleed off from the ISC?

Graham

Isn't an Inertia Store just a large gyroscope flywheel? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_moment_gyroscope

Edited September 18, 2008 by DarkReaper

[sketchley]

Didn't translate that. Look in the text on the bottom of pg 80, you'll find the English there.

Just reading Sketchley's translation of the Grea Mechanics DX 6 article and he translates the ISC as "Inertia Store Converter", which implies to me that the system somehow stores inertia and converts it into something else. Some form of energy perhaps?

Perhaps the green lighting we sometmes see when the VF-25 transforms is energy bleed off from the ISC?

Graham

[Kelsain]

Touched up the VF-171EX picture to show a nekkid CF version. I think this looks better than white too! Also, what's up with the grey patch on the leg? Where does that go?

[Final Vegeta]

I think I found a reason why the engines are so powerful in the VF-25: lose one engine and you still got the power of a VF-19

FV

[anime52k8]

I think I found a reason why the engines are so powerful in the VF-25: lose one engine and you still got the power of a VF-19

FV

so they were expecting altos flying style.

[ChronoReverse]

How can Kowamori say that the VF-25 still has similar performance to the VF-19 and VF-22 with a straight face when it appears to have so much more thrust?

Maybe they also upgraded the engines in those fighters as well?

[RedWolf]

Interestingly the Dulfim-type is a twin hull ship with a empty space at the center.

[akt_m]

Touched up the VF-171EX picture to show a nekkid CF version. I think this looks better than white too! Also, what's up with the grey patch on the leg? Where does that go?

Probably the CG guy forgot to delete that piece before rendering.

[Graham]

How can Kowamori say that the VF-25 still has similar performance to the VF-19 and VF-22 with a straight face when it appears to have so much more thrust?

When and where did Kawamori say that? First I've heard of it.

Graham

[RedWolf]

From the ep 24 discussion thread.

Holy Crap! Battle Galaxy!

If you blink when Alto rushes Ranka you'll miss it.

[VF-25 Messiah]

From the ep 24 discussion thread.

Holy Crap! Battle Galaxy!

If you blink when Alto rushes Ranka you'll miss it.

Whoa, you're right

First thought it was Brera's VF-27... but they don't have cannon turrets....

[Morpheus]

Funky bridge design if it is really Battle Galaxy.

[anime52k8]

From the ep 24 discussion thread.

Holy Crap! Battle Galaxy!

If you blink when Alto rushes Ranka you'll miss it.

WHAT THE DEUCE?!?!? so does this mean the Battle Galaxy transforms, or that there's actualy a battle galaxy at all?

I've alway's wondered how exactly the Galaxy as a ship was set up. is the Barney looking ship we've seen so far the whole galaxy (battle and civilian sections) or is it just the battle portion. also if it is the island section, where do people live, in the green disk things?