Macross Frontier Episode 12 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Gubaba]

Only if you ignore the canon existence of the Megalord....

The one from Perfect Memory...? I thought that was the Megaroad before rebuilding...

[Gubaba]

Yeah...the SDF-2 was never completed.

h**p://macross.anime.net/wiki/Macross_Class#Modernization

So there IS only one.

[Master Dex]

Yeah...the SDF-2 was never completed.

h**p://macross.anime.net/wiki/Macross_Class#Modernization

So there IS only one.

Unless a new one was built between 2040 and 2059 and that is what WTF-1 is. However that is speculation. By all official data Gubaba is correct there.

[Mr March]

Ok, I can't take this. Lets get everything straight here people. The SDF-1 was never destroyed, at all, never. It was damaged badly at the end of Macross but refitted and sat in that lake fine for at least 31 years up to the time of Mac+ which is the last time we saw it since it wasn't shown in Macross 7. The events in VF-X2 do have the rebel UN guys taking over the Macross but they are defeated and the Macross is fine and nothing happened to it, the ship that was destroyed in the game was the Macross 13 which is a New Macross class vessel. Completely different.

Now, hopefully everyone knows the truth about SDF-1 now. It was never destroyed unless something happened to it after the events of Mac7 (I assume they would have said if it was lost or destroyed in Mac7 so I think anything that happened was after) and before MacF. Hopefully no one will be confused now about the SDF-1 now that I've straighten this up (not much chance of that though). Now we can continue to guess why the WTF-1 is there, we just have to remember if it is the SDF-1 then something just happened after 2040 (or 2050 if you count VF-X2 like I do) to make it end up there or there is a serious retcon (I hope not). I just want everyone to know the SDF-1 was perfectly fine the last we saw it.

*cheers*

[Gubaba]

Unless a new one was built between 2040 and 2059 and that is what WTF-1 is.

And that would seem kind of...pointless. I mean, the Macross was an alien ship rebuilt with the best human technology available at the time. Why make another one when they could just go and make something better?

[shogun029]

1 - its a VF-1A (pic). maybe it just happens to be the same color. or it could be a replica in memory of the MIA Hikaru... and not forgetting most people in the Macross world will remember him by the red/black stripe coz of the "DYRL movie" bastardization... just like what Robocrap did to many people in our world...

2. perhaps they didn't know how to select which ones to clone, or there is no such options to select? they just push a button and the cloning machine churns out a battlion complete with a commander, an advisor, a squad leader, and all the soldiers. knowing zentradi are not experts in anything other than war.

Nice catch on number 1. It is a 1A. But it's still a version that Hikaru flew only in the movie. In the series he never became a part of Skull Squadron until Roy died. In the movie he was a member from the start in the red-striped 1A.

For number 2, isn't it one of the jobs of the advisor to be a sort of historian? Wouldn't he have been aware of the Zentradi part of Space War I? Wouldn't he have to know about Quamzin and his insurrection and suicide run on the SDF-1? And I thought that Zentradi have a much longer lifespan than humans. Why would they need to clone more Zentradi only 40 years after Space War I?

[Duke Togo]

Did no one watch the next episode preview?

[Gubaba]

Did no one watch the next episode preview?

Oooh! I DID! I DID!

What about it?

[Beltane70]

In the series he never became a part of Skull Squadron until Roy died.

Wrong. Vermillion Team was part of Skull Squadron. Hikaru was a normal member of Skull until he was promoted to lead Vermillion after the events of Bye Bye Mars

To quote the Compendium:

November 8

* TV Episode 10 The Blind Game

o Sony PlayStation 2 Game Stage P-07 The Blind Game

o The Skull Squadron's Vermillion Team escorts an ES-11D Cat's Eye with Misa Hayase on a reconnaissance mission while the same squadron's Purple Team escorts a second ES-11D Cat's Eye with Emma Granger.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Anyone knows why the skin colours of all the giant zentrans in Galia 4 are green whereas the miclone zentrans have natural skin colours ? Something to do with the miclone process ?

Is because of the color of the glass in their helmets' face plates... It's green... just like the glass in NUNS helmets is orange and the SMS helmets have it violet.

I think it is really Macross. And I think we have another scorched and anhilated earth.

My theory: Vajra attacked earth a long time ago, but New UN goverment hides it from the people. Also that's why President Glass act as President of all UN goverment. Macross escaped from earth but crushed at Gallia-4.

I already thought of it here...

Did no one watch the next episode preview?

Indeed... Enought with the Megaroad 01/Macross class ship speculation... The Macross ship at the end of Episode 12 is the original Macross... (according to the Episode 13 preview).

From 15 pages back on this thread...

Episode 13 preview:

"The FIRST Macross ship suddenly appeared. When this brave warrior awakes, Alto will experience the fate of planets. Next episode: 'Memory of Global.' Resound through the galaxy, sound of fighting."

Edited June 28, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Master Dex]

Thing is there has been debate on whether it is saying first Macross ship or first generation of Macross class ships. That is why we are discussing and debunking beliefs of other Macros class ships that don't exist. By using a Sherlock Holmes and eliminating all other possibilities, we are back to the fact that we can only conclude it to be the original Macross (unless there was a second we didn't know about, but in that case we can't determine that).

[Kronnang Dunn]

Thing is there has been debate on whether it is saying first Macross ship or first generation of Macross class ships. That is why we are discussing and debunking beliefs of other Macros class ships that don't exist. By using a Sherlock Holmes and eliminating all other possibilities, we are back to the fact that we can only conclude it to be the original Macross (unless there was a second we didn't know about, but in that case we can't determine that).

?

Episode 13 preview:

"The FIRST Macross ship suddenly appeared. When THIS brave warrior awakes, Alto will experience the fate of planets. Next episode: 'Memory of Global.' Resound through the galaxy, sound of fighting."

Sorry, but it just can't be any clearer than that...

Edited June 28, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Master Dex]

?

Episode 13 preview:

"The FIRST Macross ship suddenly appeared. When THIS brave warrior awakes, Alto will experience the fate of planets. Next episode: 'Memory of Global.' Resound through the galaxy, sound of fighting."

Sorry, but it just can't be any clearer than that...

That's from the Chihiro sub though, you should see what it says in the GG sub, it is different.

"A First GENERATION Macross unexpectedly appears. When that majestic figures awakens once again, Alto will witness the fate of the planet. Next Time: Memory of Global. Resound through the Galaxy, O song of Tumult!"

See, that makes it sound different. Now I am under the impression it is the original Macross, but I am just saying this is why we are discussing this.

Also I'm not saying any sub is more correct, I'm just saying, the difference in wording is what has us wondering.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Master Dex

[Duke Togo]

See, that makes it sound different. Now I am under the impression it is the original Macross, but I am just saying this is why we are discussing this.

I am going to stick with people aren't paying attention/don't know the story.

[Master Dex]

I know the story quite well thank you. However you do what you want, it doesn't bother me.

[Macross1982]

I know the story quite well thank you. However you do what you want, it doesn't bother me.

I'm With you Master Dex

[darkrealmbahamut]

Does no one watch the "next episode" teaser anymore?

I watch but I took the easy road on what can happen in the past it was more complex every time.

Is because of the color of the glass in their helmets' face plates... It's green... just like the glass in NUNS helmets is orange and the SMS helmets have it violet.

I already thought of it here...

Indeed... Enought with the Megaroad 01/Macross class ship speculation... The Macross ship at the end of Episode 12 is the original Macross... (according to the Episode 13 preview).

From 15 pages back on this thread...

Episode 13 preview:

"The FIRST Macross ship suddenly appeared. When this brave warrior awakes, Alto will experience the fate of planets. Next episode: 'Memory of Global.' Resound through the galaxy, sound of fighting."

That's from the Chihiro sub though, you should see what it says in the GG sub, it is different.

"A First GENERATION Macross unexpectedly appears. When that majestic figures awakens once again, Alto will witness the fate of the planet. Next Time: Memory of Global. Resound through the Galaxy, O song of Tumult!"

See, that makes it sound different. Now I am under the impression it is the original Macross, but I am just saying this is why we are discussing this.

Also I'm not saying any sub is more correct, I'm just saying, the difference in wording is what has us wondering.

I agree with you fully there is a fracture all across the web on how it is translated. Japanese is tricky like that and so this could really be an unknown first gen that maybe got lost in the dislocation got in a fight and crash landed. A secret mission of a completed SDF-2 seems far more logical then the SDF-1. Bah why can't Japanese be straight forwad

[Gubaba]

That's from the Chihiro sub though, you should see what it says in the GG sub, it is different.

"A First GENERATION Macross unexpectedly appears. When that majestic figures awakens once again, Alto will witness the fate of the planet. Next Time: Memory of Global. Resound through the Galaxy, O song of Tumult!"

See, that makes it sound different. Now I am under the impression it is the original Macross, but I am just saying this is why we are discussing this.

Also I'm not saying any sub is more correct, I'm just saying, the difference in wording is what has us wondering.

Again, we run into the same problem we had with "Howard Glass: A President or THE President?"

Japanese has no articles, so the addition of "A First Generation blah blah blah" is all Chihiro's doing. If they had had more time, they probably would've put "The First Generation Macross."

[darkrealmbahamut]

Again, we run into the same problem we had with "Howard Glass: A President or THE President?"

Japanese has no articles, so the addition of "A First Generation blah blah blah" is all Chihiro's doing. If they had had more time, they probably would've put "The First Generation Macross."

But then we are assuming again though this is just one of those debats that won't be put to bed til next week.

[Ork_dreadnought]

Good episode, its nice to see the whole Sound Force idea done right.

[Shun]

Like cyde01 and others who know japanese said - it is too ambiguous - it could mean the sdf-1 itself, it could ALSO mean the first generation (not specific to sdf-1 itself).

zzz relax guys... its too open for possibilities. we can only know next week.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Shun

[Master Dex]

Again, we run into the same problem we had with "Howard Glass: A President or THE President?"

Japanese has no articles, so the addition of "A First Generation blah blah blah" is all Chihiro's doing. If they had had more time, they probably would've put "The First Generation Macross."

Except that it is GG that said First Generation. Chihiro just said the first Macross.

[Gubaba]

Except that it is GG that said First Generation. Chihiro just said the first Macross.

Oops. My mistake. I didn't watch either one...I wait until Shinsen.

But then we are assuming again though this is just one of those debats that won't be put to bed til next week.

What exactly are we assuming...? Is there ANYTHING in ANY Macross material ANYWHERE that hints that the SDF-1 Macross is NOT one of a kind?

[Shun]

Nice catch on number 1. It is a 1A. But it's still a version that Hikaru flew only in the movie. In the series he never became a part of Skull Squadron until Roy died. In the movie he was a member from the start in the red-striped 1A.

For number 2, isn't it one of the jobs of the advisor to be a sort of historian? Wouldn't he have been aware of the Zentradi part of Space War I? Wouldn't he have to know about Quamzin and his insurrection and suicide run on the SDF-1? And I thought that Zentradi have a much longer lifespan than humans. Why would they need to clone more Zentradi only 40 years after Space War I?

1 - as i said i imagine the macross world people in the 2050s grew up knowing only the (bastardized) DYRL movie version of the 'history'. and in their minds, hikaru the hero flew a red+black striped 1A. They didn't know Hikaru flew the white+red vf-1J (perhaps they didn't know a 1J exists at all ) and picked up a second-hand valk from his senpai yadda yadda... so it's natural that if they made any statue or replica, they'd only use the DYRL version. Except maybe the historians who want to be very accurate in their records.

For e.g. a real world scenerio: Romance of Three Kingdoms is a *novelisation* of a real time period in Ancient China. Many events are exaggerated and the novel is so hugely popular that most people do not even know certain events in the novel were either totally faked or brought from another event/time period. Likewise, the bastardization and popularity of DYRL movie in the macross world must've such a huge influence on the general folks that they'll only know this movie version and never question its accuracy.

2. yes the zentran advisor is historian and record keeper. that doesn't mean he knows technical stuff or he'll be helping the zentradi repair their ships and such. my *SPECULATION* is that the cloning is done by whole batches of battalions and they can't really tell which one will grow into Quamzin-clone not forgetting that bio-engineering is very complex - and even if they found out which one is an infant Quamzin, perhaps they can't kill him coz of human rights

[Valkyrie addict]

damn, those final 10 sec of the episodes are tearing MW apart, hahahaha goos job Kawamori

[YajimaTakashi]

1 - as i said i imagine the macross world people in the 2050s grew up knowing only the (bastardized) DYRL movie version of the 'history'. and in their minds, hikaru the hero flew a red+black striped 1A. They didn't know Hikaru flew the white+red vf-1J (perhaps they didn't know a 1J exists at all ) and picked up a second-hand valk from his senpai yadda yadda... so it's natural that if they made any statue or replica, they'd only use the DYRL version. Except maybe the historians who want to be very accurate in their records.

For e.g. a real world scenerio: Romance of Three Kingdoms is a *novelisation* of a real time period in Ancient China. Many events are exaggerated and the novel is so hugely popular that most people do not even know certain events in the novel were either totally faked or brought from another event/time period. Likewise, the bastardization and popularity of DYRL movie in the macross world must've such a huge influence on the general folks that they'll only know this movie version and never question its accuracy.

1) It's been said somewhere in between the events of Macross and DYRL is the truth. Which means the events of the series did happen, but looked more along the lines of the movie since Studio Nue/Big West have been using the designs of the movie whenever they flashback to events of the original series. With the exception of the Millia flightsuit and Valk in Macross 7.

[Shun]

[Macross1982]

Great EPISODE

[Shun]

1) It's been said somewhere in between the events of Macross and DYRL is the truth. Which means the events of the series did happen, but looked more along the lines of the movie since Studio Nue/Big West have been using the designs of the movie whenever they flashback to events of the original series. With the exception of the Millia flightsuit and Valk in Macross 7.

yeah, even for real world history or even current events its really hard to tell which is the completely accurate record, or actually there is no completely accurate record, just records from certain points-of-view.

although we know the real reason for using DYRL designs is because its 'looks nicer'.

and SK just wants to tell the same story with slightly different twists and this is the easy way out of explaining.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Shun

[Xeros]

What exactly are we assuming...? Is there ANYTHING in ANY Macross material ANYWHERE that hints that the SDF-1 Macross is NOT one of a kind?

Before MacF we don't know ANYTHING about the existence of NUNS either, so I prefer wait to the next week.

PS: I couldn't resist

[Shun]

Before MacF we don't know ANYTHING about the existence of NUNS either, so I prefer wait to the next week.

PS: I couldn't resist

i totally agree

can anyone post the pics of SDF-1 in all the past series? so that we can do some comparing...

[Gubaba]

Before MacF we don't know ANYTHING about the existence of NUNS either, so I prefer wait to the next week.

But the next ep preview said it was "First Generation," i.e. built before Frontier, built before VF-X2, built before 7, built before Plus, built before (and during) Zero.

Or can you come up with a definition of "first generation" that means something else...?

[Xeros]

In fact, in construction terms, "First generation" implies that exists more of one of her class

But then, we return again to the traslation issue

[Shaka_Z]

ok... I hate to derail everyone from their collective obsession about the newly christened WTF-1 buuut....

something else popped into my mind concerning the whole issue of ranka being able to quell the riot so seemingly easily. It appears that the zentran reaction to her was much stronger on average than I imagine it would have been to Sheryl's singing.

could this be because Ranka is possibly the first blatantly obvious example of a media celebrity of mixed human/zentran/meltran descent? lets face it, Mylene's mixed heritage was not easily observable - hell her father would have passed for zentran more easily (yes, considering his hair).

With this in mind, Sheryl, though undeniably gorgeous and extremely talented, is still just a human, so I have a feeling that this particular garrison of zents would have been somewhat more resistant to her charms (had she performed as intended) than those of earlier times were to minmei or mylene, be they fans of hers or not. she would still have gotten the job done however... it would have just required a bit more from her than usual.

Ranka on the other hand had a grand slam of advantages in this ep:

1 - can we say uber moe?

2 - also extremely talented

3 - she is new and making a surprise live performance just for them (one soldier actually remarked that he was hoping to make it to her debut or something like that)

4 - from the zents POV, 'yay shes one of US!!!

that combination is what led to the mass zent nosebleed.

and yes, all is proceeding according to Grace's design ^^

Edited June 28, 2008 by Shaka_Z

[MisaForever]

KLAN AND MISA BOTH SAY IT'S THE REAL MACROSS FROM DYRL SO STFU!!!