RedWolf Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The VF-7 looks like a Viper. No wonder its called light. http://mahq.net/mecha/macross/macross.htm From SK's Advance Valkyries Nova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) The VF-7 looks like a Viper. No wonder its called light. http://mahq.net/mecha/macross/macross.htm From SK's Advance Valkyries Nova technically that's not the real VF-7 though (although it could fit as the VF-7 or maybe the VF-5 considering it's shape) none of the Advanced Valkyrie designs are cannon, there all from a non macross project SK did for a canned bandai model line. the only ones that would become official designs are the VF-3000 and VF-X-11 (after being renamed VF-9) which were used in the macross M3 video game. the VF-X-7 would totaly work as one of the as-yet unseen early valks, to bad it's not official. :edit: on an odd note, SK seems oddly partial to the design of the VF-9. after first conceiving of it in 1985 as part of the advanced Valkyrie series, he then resurrected it 5 years later as part of his Air cavalry chronicles series, and 11 years after that failed he brought the cutlass back again in Macross M3. Edited February 4, 2009 by anime52k8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 One could say that the Y/VF-19 is the ultimate resurrection of the VF-9. Though, I think it may just be a case of recycling good ideas from failed projects. Heck, the main Varauta VF came from a failed series! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 One could say that the Y/VF-19 is the ultimate resurrection of the VF-9. Though, I think it may just be a case of recycling good ideas from failed projects. Heck, the main Varauta VF came from a failed series! Failed? Not exactly. Just that SK liked Variable Fighters for Vision of Escaflowne. Ah yes what could have been... Funny Maaya Sakamoto played Hitomi. The voice of Ranshe Mei, Ranka's mom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin3060 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You know makes me think.....if the EX-Gear system was around during project super nova.....Guld may still have been with us.... More the ISC than the EX-Gear I'd guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Failed? Not exactly. Just that SK liked Variable Fighters for Vision of Escaflowne. Ah yes what could have been... Funny Maaya Sakamoto played Hitomi. The voice of Ranshe Mei, Ranka's mom. I'm referring to "Knights of the Sky". It is true that the project did evolve into something else (Escaflowne), but the initial "Knights of the Sky" vision of the project died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Question. So where do they all stand in terms of being overall the more advanced/powerful/versatel valk? I know the answer would probably be based on opinion, but still, I would like to know which one would be the best/overall. Not as much opinion as you'd think. Granted, most debates between the valkyries would include a lot of opinion, but there are a few legitimate benchmarks that can be used to gauge the variable fighters in some manner. The advancement/power/versatility of the valkyries follow a fairly linear progression. All factors being equal, newer valkyries will have superior technology/performance/versatility than older generation valkyries. That doesn't necessarily mean that more advanced valkyries will be superior in "every" possible way. It's just a general guideline that happens to hold true more often than not. Aside from leaps in technology that provide a newer valkyrie with advantages over older valkyries (improved weapons, wrap-around imaging monitors/brain wave control systems, pin-point barrier systems, linear actuators, ISC "inertia buffer", etc) the other official benchmark is the thrust-to-weight ratio derived from the official mass and thrust ratings of the valkyries. The higher the T-W ratio, the faster a valkyrie can accelerate, providing obvious advantages in combat. I made a chart of the valkyrie T-W ratios last year that you can find by following this link. Having said all that, a new valkyrie with advantages like superior technology and a superior T-W ratio doesn't guarantee the new valkyrie will dominate all older valkyries. Again, it only means that statistically speaking (with all other factors being equal) a new valkyrie will win more often than not against an older valkyrie. And the greater the disparity in capabilities, the greater the likelihood of superiority. The YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur and YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II both have capabilities that are different from the other, but both variable fighters have similar performance parity. On the other hand, a vast technological/performance/versatility margin exists between the VF-0 Phoenix and the VF-25 Messiah to the point where it's very likely the VF-25 could battle several VF-0's at once and come out the winner. But as Macross 7 showed, put Milia in a VF-1J Valkyrie and she can show up Basara in a VF-19 Custom. So not all factors are equal all the time Edited February 4, 2009 by Mr March Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Mr Maarch, Has anyone every told you that you ought to have a medal or a plaque or something for all this info? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hell, I'd settle for a raise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hell, I'd settle for a raise But MarchImadeachart, you have a title! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 One thing many are forgetting is that Project Supernova was a UN Airforce project, not a naval project. It is entirely possible that the VF-19 was the mainline fighter of the 'Airforce'. Mac 7 showed that the VF-11 continued to be the frontline fighter of the navy until it was replaced by the VF-171. The VF-19's and VF-22's were special forces aircraft in Spacy. Based on official publications we know that there are several branches of UN forces. Marines, Air Force, Spacy and even planetary naval forces. How many branches remained after SW1 is currently unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Not as much opinion as you'd think. Granted, most debates between the valkyries would include a lot of opinion, but there are a few legitimate benchmarks that can be used to gauge the variable fighters in some manner. The advancement/power/versatility of the valkyries follow a fairly linear progression. All factors being equal, newer valkyries will have superior technology/performance/versatility than older generation valkyries. That doesn't necessarily mean that more advanced valkyries will be superior in "every" possible way. It's just a general guideline that happens to hold true more often than not. Aside from leaps in technology that provide a newer valkyrie with advantages over older valkyries (improved weapons, wrap-around imaging monitors/brain wave control systems, pin-point barrier systems, linear actuators, ISC "inertia buffer", etc) the other official benchmark is the thrust-to-weight ratio derived from the official mass and thrust ratings of the valkyries. The higher the T-W ratio, the faster a valkyrie can accelerate, providing obvious advantages in combat. I made a chart of the valkyrie T-W ratios last year that you can find by following this link. Having said all that, a new valkyrie with advantages like superior technology and a superior T-W ratio doesn't guarantee the new valkyrie will dominate all older valkyries. Again, it only means that statistically speaking (with all other factors being equal) a new valkyrie will win more often than not against an older valkyrie. And the greater the disparity in capabilities, the greater the likelihood of superiority. The YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur and YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II both have capabilities that are different from the other, but both variable fighters have similar performance parity. On the other hand, a vast technological/performance/versatility margin exists between the VF-0 Phoenix and the VF-25 Messiah to the point where it's very likely the VF-25 could battle several VF-0's at once and come out the winner. But as Macross 7 showed, put Milia in a VF-1J Valkyrie and she can show up Basara in a VF-19 Custom. So not all factors are equal all the time I can always count on Mr. March for a good answer...And a obligatory comparison picture! Thanks again Mr. March and the rest of you who answered. Soooooo...who would win in a fight between a VF-19, VF-21/22, VF-25 and VF-27? Edited February 4, 2009 by SkullLeaderVF-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 But MarchImadeachart, you have a title! My Name is Mr. March and I'm a chart addict That's actually a good point. Perhaps the deployment of the YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur and the YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II could be rationalized as more planet based aerospace craft. But as an in-universe explanation, I still believe those two fighter classes were deployed in some fleets and colonies, just not the ones in Macross Frontier I can always count on Mr. March for a good answer...And a obligatory comparison picture! Thanks again Mr. March and the rest of you who answered. Soooooo...who would win in a fight between a VF-19, VF-21/22, VF-25 and VF-27? No problem. I like charts because everyone seems to understand things visually. If I just post numbers, it doesn't seem to elicit as effective a response. A fight between the VF-19 Excalibur/VF-22 Sturmvogel II and the VF-25 Messiah/VF-27 Lucifer would naturally favour the VF-25/VF-27 simply because of significant technologies like the ISC "inertia buffer" and the significant T-W ratio advantages of the two Frontier fighters. However, the VF-19 Excalibur/VF-22 Sturmvogel II would be far more evenly matched with the new valkyries than even the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus was. The Frontier fighters wouldn't enjoy a vast advantage over those fighters, though given the g-endurance of the two sets of craft, the M+/M7-era craft definitely have time working against them. With the ISC in the VF-25 and cyborg pilots in the VF-27, the longer the battle goes on, the sooner the VF-19/VF-22 pilots would succumb to high-g fatigue. However, Max and Milia in their VF-22S Sturmvogel IIs would assuredly defeat Alto in his VF-25 and Brera in his VF-27. But as always, Max and Milia vs. anyone except each other is never a fair fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 My Name is Mr. March and I'm a chart addict That's actually a good point. Perhaps the deployment of the YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur and the YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II could be rationalized as more planet based aerospace craft. But as an in-universe explanation, I still believe those two fighter classes were deployed in some fleets and colonies, just not the ones in Macross Frontier No problem. I like charts because everyone seems to understand things visually. If I just post numbers, it doesn't seem to elicit as effective a response. A fight between the VF-19 Excalibur/VF-22 Sturmvogel II and the VF-25 Messiah/VF-27 Lucifer would naturally favour the VF-25/VF-27 simply because of significant technologies like the ISC "inertia buffer" and the significant T-W ratio advantages of the two Frontier fighters. However, the VF-19 Excalibur/VF-22 Sturmvogel II would be far more evenly matched with the new valkyries than even the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus was. The Frontier fighters wouldn't enjoy a vast advantage over those fighters, though given the g-endurance of the two sets of craft, the M+/M7-era craft definitely have time working against them. With the ISC in the VF-25 and cyborg pilots in the VF-27, the longer the battle goes on, the sooner the VF-19/VF-22 pilots would succumb to high-g fatigue. However, Max and Milia in their VF-22S Sturmvogel IIs would assuredly defeat Alto in his VF-25 and Brera in his VF-27. But as always, Max and Milia vs. anyone except each other is never a fair fight Do you think it would be only a matter of time before/if they upgrade the 19 and 22's to incorporate the ISC buffers and what nots, like they did for the ol' VF-1's? I think if they did they could probly give the 25 and 27 more run for there money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 That's definitely a possibility. They upgraded several fighters for extended service, including the VF-1X Valkyrie Plus and the VF-4G Lightning III. The VF-171 Nightmare Plus is a type of "extended service life" variant of the old VF-17D Nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 That's definitely a possibility. They upgraded several fighters for extended service, including the VF-1X Valkyrie Plus and the VF-4G Lightning III. The VF-171 Nightmare Plus is a type of "extended service life" variant of the old VF-17D Nightmare. I'd be more inclined to say the 171 is an extended service life of the design, than the 17 itself. The forward fuselage underwent a substantial change over the 17... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 New newbie question for the newbie question thread In SDF:M episode (forgot which) where Kamjin kidnapped Kaifun and Minmay, Kamjin squad were ambushed by UN-Spacy and I remember the UN-Spacy fielded a squadron of Monster Destroid. AFAIK they we're variant of the original Monster, anyone got a clue on this. On some RT RPG website they said the monster variant is smaller and only have two barreled cannon instead of four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Sounds like another STAR PRO fiasco to me. They meant to draw Destroid Monsters, but their sub-par animation skills weren't up to the task. I'd write it off as more shoddy animation work by a lousy sub-contracted studio. Just out of curiosity, does HG bleed dry every frame of animation from SDF Macross for possible mecha designs, no matter how "throwaway" the mecha might be? Would it kill them to actually hire an artist to create their own transforming fighters? "But that's just me, I could be wrong, maybe it's a terrible tragedy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Still, a whole platoon of Monster only for a bunch of half drunken Zentraedi? Well, they do hijack a Monster and have a couple of battlepods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 All the talk about Macross II got me thinking...are we all more-or-less in agreement that when Sylvie Gena says that her grandmother (or was it great-grandmother?) was Meltrandi, she was essentially saying that she's a descendent of Max and Millia? That was the impression I got, and I'm wondering if it was shared... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 All the talk about Macross II got me thinking...are we all more-or-less in agreement that when Sylvie Gena says that her grandmother (or was it great-grandmother?) was Meltrandi, she was essentially saying that she's a descendent of Max and Millia? That was the impression I got, and I'm wondering if it was shared... well... sylvie was blond, with kinda big hair. so if dana sterling was miriya's daughter, why not sylvie? seriously, when she said that, the thought also came up. how couldn't it, if you're a macross fan? but then again, she does imply that she's a good pilot because of the genes from her meltrandi lineage. what does that make max, chopped liver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 All the talk about Macross II got me thinking...are we all more-or-less in agreement that when Sylvie Gena says that her grandmother (or was it great-grandmother?) was Meltrandi, she was essentially saying that she's a descendent of Max and Millia? That was the impression I got, and I'm wondering if it was shared... Sylvie Gena.....Sylvie Genius......that make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 All the talk about Macross II got me thinking...are we all more-or-less in agreement that when Sylvie Gena says that her grandmother (or was it great-grandmother?) was Meltrandi, she was essentially saying that she's a descendent of Max and Millia? That was the impression I got, and I'm wondering if it was shared... I can see where you're coming from, but I doubt that Max was only human who had a child with a Meltrandi after the SW. And the similar family name could be the directors homage to the Jenius name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Sylvie Gena.....Sylvie Genius......that make sense It makes even more sense if you look at their names in Japanese...ジーナス (Jiinasu) and ジーナ (Jiina). I think the reason I'm wondering about it NOW is because I suddenly remembered an old Mikimoto interview in...Animerica, I believe, when Macross II was first coming out, where he said that, due to legal reasons or copyright issues or something, they couldn't use any of the old characters...but, on the other hand, that meant they didn't have to use the old mecha, either. (which seemed like a very, very nice way of describing the situation). Anyway, I wondered if perhaps they WANTED to telegraph to the viewers that she was really Sylvie JENIUS, but couldn't come right out and say it. But then, I'm also convinced that Usso Evin is Char's great-grandson, no matter what Tomino says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I think the reason I'm wondering about it NOW is because I suddenly remembered an old Mikimoto interview in...Animerica, I believe, when Macross II was first coming out, where he said that, due to legal reasons or copyright issues or something, they couldn't use any of the old characters...but, on the other hand, that meant they didn't have to use the old mecha, either. (which seemed like a very, very nice way of describing the situation). Anyway, I wondered if perhaps they WANTED to telegraph to the viewers that she was really Sylvie JENIUS, but couldn't come right out and say it. I have that issue, and no, there were not any legal reasons behind any of the character or plot decisions. The producer just didn't want them reusing the old characters, that's all. The Valkyries were brought back because it's Macross and everyone expects to see them in Macross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I have that issue, and no, there were not any legal reasons behind any of the character or plot decisions. The producer just didn't want them reusing the old characters, that's all. The Valkyries were brought back because it's Macross and everyone expects to see them in Macross. Ah, well. I still think it's a shout-out, but I guess it's nothing more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) All the talk about Macross II got me thinking...are we all more-or-less in agreement that when Sylvie Gena says that her grandmother (or was it great-grandmother?) was Meltrandi, she was essentially saying that she's a descendent of Max and Millia? That was the impression I got, and I'm wondering if it was shared... I got that feeling too. But then I saw how she pilots and realized it could not be. On a side note. since the Evil series was supposed to be Protocultures ultimate weapon, before they were taken over by the protodevlin. Could the evil series stand up to the vajra (protodevlin possessed or not), if for some reason the protoculture went to war with them? Edited February 6, 2009 by SkullLeaderVF-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I got that feeling too. But then I saw how she pilots and realized it could not be. On a side note. since the Evil series was supposed to be Protocultures ultimate weapon, before they were taken over by the protodevlin. Could the evil series stand up to the vajra (protodevlin possessed or not), if for some reason the protoculture went to war with them? It would depend on how many EVILs were deployed. If it were only the prototypes, it is doubtful they'd be able to stand up to the collective thinking swarms of the Vajra. The EVILs were not really designed to fight the Vajra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I can see where you're coming from, but I doubt that Max was only human who had a child with a Meltrandi after the SW. Of that we can be absolutely certain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Of that we can be absolutely certain Oh yeah! Let's repopulate the human race! None of that clonning nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) Of that we can be absolutely certain Well considering what Millia looked like in a bikini in Mac 7 (after having 7 kids)! I tend to agree with Marchmedowntothedojo! Most red blooded humans would clamour for the chance to breed with a Meltrani (even with their hot tempers ). Edited February 6, 2009 by Zinjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letigre Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 This whole "Earth needs Meltrandi!" sort of leaves the Zentradi male populace out in the cold. It's arguable that they just haven't gone in depth about the broad scope of human/Zentradi relationships and inter breeding, but we have seen a case of a human male-zentradi female relationship and family, but have never been distinctly shown the opposite..inspite of the number of hybrids we have seen. It just makes me think... (Then again I don't recall a single female face in the 33rd Naval/Marine Battalion either. Coincidence?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Well if it helps any Basara decultured an entire fleet of Meltrandi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Well if it helps any Basara decultured an entire fleet of Meltrandi. "Speakerpod Penatration" were two words (or is it 3?) I never thought i would see in the same sentence, 'till i came here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Well considering what Millia looked like in a bikini in Mac 7 (after having 7 kids)! I tend to agree with Marchmedowntothedojo! Most red blooded humans would clamour for the chance to breed with a Meltrani (even with their hot tempers ). Preach it brotha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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