Bandai Macross Frontier toys thread

[OmegaD3k]

As far as Prototypes go. Yamato's proto's have always looked very similar, if not identical to the final product (to the extent of my knowledge). If this 1/60 VF-25 is anything near the way the final version will look like, then it'll be a instant pass for me.

VF-25 Prototype First-Impressions:

The canopy hinges are absolutely hideous, unnecessary and stand out more than anything. Overall, the 1/72 looks vastly superior to this lazy attempt.

Here's hoping the final figure will either be a completely different sculpt, or at least have the prototype undergo massive changes before release.

Hopefully Yamato will pick up the Frontier license soon and produce some more accurate and decent looking 25's. I rather have a QC riddled, but accurate looking VF, rather than another chunky monkey.

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I expected better from Bandai, even for a Prototype.

Edited May 22, 2008 by OmegaD3k

[danth]

oh please... bandaides get all in a hissy fit over 2/3rds of a blurry yamato CAD drawing. If these shots were so rough and so far off from the final sculpt, why would bandai use them as their promotional material?

I don't think this "Bandaide" boogey man of yours really exists, but I agree that prototypes like these usually don't change one bit. It'll look different when it's painted and transformed properly, but it's almost certain the sculpt/mold itself is set in stone.

[eugimon]

I didn't. Most of you guys were against the new 1/60 when the CAD drawings came out not too long ago. I seemed to be one of the only ones excited when most said the 1/48 was better, when I was saying the battroid mode looked better, people said "no the 1/48 is still king!". Even now I am still excited for the new 1/60. Oh and get this, its a yamato toy. Plus, I wasn't even one of the guys complaining about the YF-21 coming out. I'm just passing on it since it costs a lot. I wasn't one of the "ZOMG THE LEGS ARE TOO SKINNY OH NOES!" people.

As for Bandai showing rough sculpts, its showing what they are working on. A LOT of model companies at Shizuoka showed off unfinished prototypes for plamo, like the the Sky Crawlers anime and various aircraft kits, its nothing new. Some companies even showed prototype cardboard sculpts of plamo planes.

Please, this isn't a CAD drawing or a rough mock up, . By the time Yamato, takara or even bandai shows off a toy at this stage, there's very little retooling that's going to happen. Certainly no major changes to the mold. The only recent example where a toy got a signifcant change up was the MP03, but even there, they just moved the kibble around, they didn't significantly change the design of the toy and they didn't touch the proportions. Show me a toy, or even a bandai model, that by the time actual toy was released, there were MAJOR, signficant changes to the toys dimensions and proportions.

If they were showing a card board cutout or even CAD, I would agree and say people (me) were jumping the gun and that it's too early to start worrying/bitching. But at this point, to fixe some of the issues like the length of the legs/arms, the shape and size of the chest, there would need to be major design changes and pretty significant retooling.

And it's not just the angle of the cod piece, it's the width and the length. It's simply... actually, the whole toy is too wide, and it's too long. The cod piece should not be hanging down by the knees. For pete's sake, it looks like a 1/48 with EXO's thunder hammer armor on.

I don't think this "Bandaide" boogey man of yours really exists, but I agree that prototypes like these usually don't change one bit. It'll look different when it's painted and transformed properly, but it's almost certain the sculpt/mold itself is set in stone.

You're kidding right? Every yamato release we go through the same chorus of bandaides who go on and on about how much better it would have been if only bandai had the license and how they would give us "perfect grade technology" how we only had to look at the gundam models for how great bandai engineering is and how we only had to look at the 1/55 chunkies for how durable a bandai valkyrie could be.

Nope, as much as some people here are yamatoized or however BoB puts it, there's a chorus of bandaides.

Edited May 22, 2008 by eugimon

[Kyp Durron]

I don't think this "Bandaide" boogey man of yours really exists, but I agree that prototypes like these usually don't change one bit. It'll look different when it's painted and transformed properly, but it's almost certain the sculpt/mold itself is set in stone.

I agree, they've obviously worked out how it's going to transform and I don't recall ever seeing any prototype valks that far along being changed much, if any, in terms of sculpt.

Yeah, I sit here and hope like some of you here, but I'm really not expecting this thing to be much different other than them showing it painted in another month or two.

-Kyp

Edited May 22, 2008 by Kyp Durron

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

By the time Yamato, takara or even bandai shows off a toy at this stage, there's very little retooling that's going to happen.

Masterpiece Starscream. Yes there were major changes and you are overlooking what exactly happened with that, its not just the kibble, if it was, it would still look proportioned to the animation robot model, which the final toy was not.

The cod piece should not be hanging down by the knees.

Not to mention, anytime Yamato showed a grey prototype, it was already tooled with the clear plastic showing, and different materials in their plain form. They rarely show anything as rough as a prototype as the DX VF-25 Bandai has shown. Not to mention, it may not have even reached tooling stage yet...just rough sculpt before Kawamori looks it over and requests changes(which he probably already did). The model kits I don't think will change, but the DX will most likely.

Again, I think it unfolds. Try to picture it folding nearly 180 degrees, and see where the hip ball joints would then be placed.

By the time Yamato, takara or even bandai shows off a toy at this stage, there's very little retooling that's going to happen.

Really, so where is Yamato's 1/60 YF-21? Oh yea delayed, I wonder why.

But at this point, to fixe some of the issues like the length of the legs/arms, the shape and size of the chest, there would need to be major design changes and pretty significant retooling.

If Bandai has not reached the mold tooling stage, resculpting is not an issue. Its a WIP things change.

Nope, as much as some people here are yamatoized or however BoB puts it, there's a chorus of bandaides.

There are only a few Bandai fans here, they just seem loud when they go against the grain and voice their opinion that Bandai can do better than Yamato, this place after all, is known as Yamatoworld after all.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[eugimon]

Masterpiece Starscream. Yes there were major changes and you are overlooking what exactly happened with that, its not just the kibble, if it was, it would still look proportioned to the animation robot model, which the final toy was not.

Again, I think it unfolds. Try to picture it folding nearly 180 degrees, and see where the hip ball joints would then be placed.

Really, so where is Yamato's 1/60 YF-21? Oh yea delayed, I wonder why.

If Bandai has not reached the mold tooling stage, resculpting is not an issue. Its a WIP things change.

Really? MAJOR changes? Like? Oh, you mean pasting the conformal fuel tanks on and giving it two guns instead of 1? Please, other than moving the leg kibble to the hip, the basic shape and proportions were the same. It was cosmetic changes.

And the cod piece isn't supposed to unfold, it should fold up. Again, the problem isn't that it's not sticking out at angle it's how wide and how long it is.

As for the delayed yf-21, when it comes out, if it looks significantly different from all the prototype pictures we've seen... like, if has fat legs and big bell bottom calves like people seem to want, I'll agree with you. But until then, wondering is all you're doing.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Really? MAJOR changes? Like? Oh, you mean pasting the conformal fuel tanks on and giving it two guns instead of 1? Please, other than moving the leg kibble to the hip, the basic shape and proportions were the same. It was cosmetic changes.

Its not just the hip kibble, the entire side of the fighter was exposed prior to, and afterwards not only was it covered, but the legs were completely different. Its more than just the hip kibble, again the leg molds are completely different. The proportions are different, why do you think so many people were pissed when it came out? I wasn't pissed, but a lot of people were.

As far as wondering, well the VF-25DX is not finished. Otherwise they would have shown something further at shizuoka. Yamato usually shows their valkyries at more refined stages, its clear at this point that Bandai does not. The first 1/60 VF-0 sculpt was from the already tooled molds for production, its obvious that this VF-25 shown is not at that stage.

[Kyp Durron]

Its not just the hip kibble, the entire side of the fighter was exposed prior to, and afterwards not only was it covered, but the legs were completely different. Its more than just the hip kibble, again the leg molds are completely different. The proportions are different, why do you think so many people were pissed when it came out? I wasn't pissed, but a lot of people were.

As far as wondering, well the VF-25DX is not finished. Otherwise they would have shown something further at shizuoka. Yamato usually shows their valkyries at more refined stages, its clear at this point that Bandai does not. The first 1/60 VF-0 sculpt was from the already tooled molds for production, its obvious that this VF-25 shown is not at that stage.

I tell you what, if you're right and me and the others wrong, I will HAPPILY eat humble pie because this is one case where I'd be glad to be wrong.

-Kyp

[transfan52]

Its not just the hip kibble, the entire side of the fighter was exposed prior to, and afterwards not only was it covered, but the legs were completely different. Its more than just the hip kibble, again the leg molds are completely different. The proportions are different, why do you think so many people were pissed when it came out? I wasn't pissed, but a lot of people were.

As far as wondering, well the VF-25DX is not finished. Otherwise they would have shown something further at shizuoka. Yamato usually shows their valkyries at more refined stages, its clear at this point that Bandai does not. The first 1/60 VF-0 sculpt was from the already tooled molds for production, its obvious that this VF-25 shown is not at that stage.

WTF is hip kibble ne way I keep hearing that on the forums, can somebody enlighten me?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

WTF is hip kibble ne way I keep hearing that on the forums, can somebody enlighten me?

The parts that hang off of Masterpiece Starscream's hips.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The two dangly bits on starscreams sides.

edit: yeah what he said.

So much controversy over that too. And now look at the movie starscream with the chunky underside. Dudes. If it were a choice between a Shoji Kawamori starscream with nice jet mode, (but with some liberal changes to modernise him) ...and.. a chunky jet mode with ugly-ass weapons that don't resemble the f-22 in the movie, then I'll take the Floating Head's jet any day.

Edited May 22, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Nani?!]

Guys, it's all good if you're going to talk about what you think looks off on the prototype or not, but wtf is "Bandaide" & "Yamaturds?"

Don't turn this into some "Sony : Microsoft :: Yamato : Bandai" war because honestly, it's gay.

Shin isn't a "bandaide"... I know this for sure. I had a couple heated discourses with him regarding the business decisions of yamato (in the "silent-treatment-Macrossworld" era) and their quality (which was shotty then) of their products and he's defended them vigorously...

And Eugimon is clearly no "Yamaturd".... He's had a retarded shoulder vf-0 for an avatar for a good while.

(Although, he seems to have a shorter leash for bandai )

Stop the fanboy labeling. It's retarded.

It's good competition, indirect as it may be... and unless bandai f's it up totally, we can only benefit (however minute) from the slight drop of sweat that will go down yamato exec's brow.

As for the prototype:

That hinge is... disgusting... It needs to go. I understand it might be because of the breaking point right there but c'mon... yamato solved that problem in the yf-19.

With everything else however, (ie the big crotch, the head shape, antennae length, loose limbs) is still early to tell. The crotch needs to lock up, knees need to be set in place and the head is looking up, with the antennae a little forward.

posting a pic of battroid comparison for reference:

IMO, apart from the ghastly cockpit hinge, the sculpt is not all that bad. We've (well not me , but Mwer's ) cut more slack to yamato with the slight deformities that come from materializing kawamori's anime magic.

...... but the hinge has to go.... sorry...

Edited May 22, 2008 by Nani?!

[Graham]

I'm now worried about my SV-51 Nora Type. I'm supposed to finally get it today! Hope it's not as flawed as what everyone says.

Sigh.........the Nora SV-51, has just about perfect QC and pretty much everyone says that.

The only problems with the Ivanov SV-51, was a loose missile fit, slightly saggy wings with all weapons attached and a small quantity came fitted with two right (or was it two left?) wing hinges, easily fixed and hardly noticible.

All the above issues were fixed on the Nora. The Nora is one of the best toys Yamato have ever released IMO.

Don't believe all the crap you read online, spread around by people who like using the word "turd" in every sentence.

Graham

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Does anyone think Bandai will make this macross toy crap on purpose because they want gundam toys to succeed more than macross? With the only reason them wanting to do the toys being that they can just to *prevent yamato from having the license?

*ie more as a hostile move to deny something to the competition more than because you care about the thing you are taking from it?

[Nani?!]

Does anyone think Bandai will make this macross toy crap on purpose because they want gundam toys to succeed more than macross? With the only reason them wanting to do the toys being that they can just to *prevent yamato from having the license?

*ie more as a hostile move to deny something to the competition more than because you care about the thing you are taking from it?

Nope.

They just want a piece (or more in the future) of the growing pie, IMO.

[Kyp Durron]

Does anyone think Bandai will make this macross toy crap on purpose because they want gundam toys to succeed more than macross? With the only reason them wanting to do the toys being that they can just to *prevent yamato from having the license?

*ie more as a hostile move to deny something to the competition more than because you care about the thing you are taking from it?

No, I don't think that at all, that's too much of a "conspiracy theory" if you ask me. But unless they make some real changes to that 1/60 prototype of theirs, it's going to tank like a lead zepplin and get some really bad reviews sculpt-wise.

-Kyp

Edited May 22, 2008 by Kyp Durron

[danth]

You're kidding right? Every yamato release we go through the same chorus of bandaides who go on and on about how much better it would have been if only bandai had the license and how they would give us "perfect grade technology" how we only had to look at the gundam models for how great bandai engineering is and how we only had to look at the 1/55 chunkies for how durable a bandai valkyrie could be.

Nope, as much as some people here are yamatoized or however BoB puts it, there's a chorus of bandaides.

It definitely goes a bit nuts around here when Yamato releases CAD drawings, and the drawings are always heavily scrutinized. I believe it's fair to criticize a CAD drawing because at that time there's still hope that problems can be fixed.

However, I don't believe there's a cabal of Bandai sycophants who are hostile to Yamato. Sure, there are some people who have been burned and resent the way Yamato is worshiped by some, but I don't think they're rabid Bandai fans.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Sigh.........the Nora SV-51, has just about perfect QC and pretty much everyone says that.

I can agree with that. I love the sv-51. It stays in plane mode on the display stand next to my konig monster in gerwalk.

Word of advice for SV-51: Don't get the ivanov until they re-release a fixed one. Instead get the canon fodder or nora. ('first release curse' was broken with this. )

Hopefully they can make the yf-21 problem free as well. Remember with macross it's different to us overseas guys who won't be able to request extra parts and stuff. Only the rich guys can afford to take that kind of risk.

But guys remember one thing: even if a company is well-respected they can still make some flaws that a fan will find a big problem with. Look at the CMs Legioss and Tread for an example. It had all the things we wish for in yamato toys: very sturdy and with joints that feel tight and clicky. But the link up mode was criticised, the high price was a turn off for many, and there were things the crappy toynami version still did better (design wise) than the CMs version.

review of CMS legioss+Tread combo:

pt1

pt2

pt3

So just because you trust the company doesn't necessarily mean they still can't make a decision that other fans won't like.

Edited May 22, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[transfan52]

Does anyone think Bandai will make this macross toy crap on purpose because they want gundam toys to succeed more than macross? With the only reason them wanting to do the toys being that they can just to *prevent yamato from having the license?

*ie more as a hostile move to deny something to the competition more than because you care about the thing you are taking from it?

I dont think its that complicated... If anything bandai wants to try and capture a new market and make even more insane amounts of money than what they have been making with the gundam franchise.

Everybody is judging what appears to be a very early sculpt from bandai, I highly doubt this sculpt will pass through the scrutiny of the design process though. Bandai is simply giving us an early preview of a possible sculpt. Since they know were all itching to know what the new product line would look like, probably as we speak theyre making changes.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Another thing: if it weren't for the complainers of problems for yamato toys on this board I wouldn't know which release was safe to get. So by all means, complain if it is a valid complaint.

There is always room for improvement. I think the high cost of the toys wouldn't even be an issue if the toys themselves were just problem free. But if the toys DO cost high, and there ARE flaws, then that's a HUGE disapointment. So I can see why the guys who got burnt by the flaws want to warn people about yamato. It's a lot of money and it all adds up.

But for those who have lots of money and can afford to take the risk on first releases: we need your feedback so we know what's safe.. So by all means keep buying yamatos if you have too much money. Just review them, take pics, warn of any possible issues like stress marks. This way yamato can't just deny the problems *exist and choose to do nothing about it.

One thing I do hope yamato concentrate on for al their toys is locking mechanisms. I DO still want a locking chest on yf-19 even if the guy who doesn't care about the robot mode is fine with it. It just makes the toy feel more safe to handle. You know that feeling when you pick something up and you risk having something fall off? I don't want that. Fighter modes lock together well so I don't see why the robot mode shouldn't also do the same given that the 1/48 vf-1 toys locked up in robot mode.

*by saying: "this is the first I have ever heard of the problem. No complaints from the japanese customers."

Edited May 22, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Nani?!]

It definitely goes a bit nuts around here when Yamato releases CAD drawings, and the drawings are always heavily scrutinized. I believe it's fair to criticize a CAD drawing because at that time there's still hope that problems can be fixed.

However, I don't believe there's a cabal of Bandai sycophants who are hostile to Yamato. Sure, there are some people who have been burned and resent the way Yamato is worshiped by some, but I don't think they're rabid Bandai fans.

I think the CAD's get as scrutinized as they do because it's probably the only phase where fan's comments have any chance to be heard before things are set in stone. It's a minute chance to begin with, sure, but it's a chance.

The fact that they also fail to portray a complete picture (the objective wow-factor of a valk in the flesh) is also a major factor.

All the comments I've made about the CAD, I still feel the same way about the final product. I still think the sculpt of the 1/60 vf-0s is spot on AWESOME. I still think the tail fins of the yf-19 are a tad small and wish the gullet was even smaller (my opinion), and I still think the legs of the yf-21 are a bit thin.

What I am learning to do from either side of the spectrum is tone down the concern and take into consideration the OVERALL wow factor of the toy that although will not completely erase those gripes, will neutralize them enough to where they don't matter much.

[Fly4victory]

Guys, it's all good if you're going to talk about what you think looks off on the prototype or not, but wtf is "Bandaide" & "Yamaturds?"

Band/Yamat-Aide: a concert to support the purchase of future Macross Toys?

The side by side photos just has my eyes focus on the screws on the front of the shoulders. I hope that a plastic cover is made that conforms with the raised edge .. not just a circular plug or worse yet a sticker.

[transfan52]

Band/Yamat-Aide: a concert to support the purchase of future Macross Toys?

The side by side photos just has my eyes focus on the screws on the front of the shoulders. I hope that a plastic cover is made that conforms with the raised edge .. not just a circular plug or worse yet a sticker.

LOL a sticker... Unfortunately I have owned some bandai models that use a sticker to sometimes cover up the screw hole... Thats something I could expect from an american toy company like hasbro but not a refined company like bandai lol.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Remember this hobby has to be fun

[Beware of Blast]

You're kidding right? Every yamato release we go through the same chorus of bandaides who go on and on about how much better it would have been if only bandai had the license and how they would give us "perfect grade technology" how we only had to look at the gundam models for how great bandai engineering is and how we only had to look at the 1/55 chunkies for how durable a bandai valkyrie could be.

Nope, as much as some people here are yamatoized or however BoB puts it, there's a chorus of bandaides.

I fail to see how wanting Bandai's better engineering and mechanics on a Yamato transforming VF makes us Bandaides. From where I look at it, it is the believe I have that Yamato could do it if they want to - that you get such comments. Maybe we should just stick to Yamato versus Toynami like yesterday; only Toynami has moved on from making toys to distributing them - that alone Yamato wouldn't have a chance in hell of ever competing. Whoops, now I'm a Toynamiaide!

[eugimon]

I fail to see how wanting Bandai's better engineering and mechanics on a Yamato transforming VF makes us Bandaides. From where I look at it, it is the believe I have that Yamato could do it if they want to - that you get such comments. Maybe we should just stick to Yamato versus Toynami like yesterday; only Toynami has moved on from making toys to distributing them - that alone Yamato wouldn't have a chance in hell of ever competing. Whoops, now I'm a Toynamiaide!

It's so cute how you're not able to apply the same level of butthurt you have over yamato and to people who choose to buy their toys over to other companies.

[Vegas]

this is a letdown...i was expecting so much from bandai

their chogokin prototypes from other toy line looked good but this one isnt. the proportions are a bit off.

they need to resculpt this. maybe copy the proportion of their 1/72 model or something.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Vegas Valkyrie

[Graham]

Heh, I've said it before, but Bandai have no idea about designing Valks. Other mecha, epscially Gundams yes, but Valks no.

They should go crawing to Yamato on hands and knees to ask for design help "Help us Yamato, you're our only hope!"

Heh, the master (Bandai), has become the student.......LOL!

In a few years (I hope) you will all kneel before the awesomeness that is the Yamato VF-25 .....Mwahahahaha!

No wonder Kawamori-san has been frowning in all the photos with the Bandai design staff.

Graham

[jenius]

Really, I don't think this toy is all that hideous. Looking at the battroid, the chest looks a little chunky, the pelvis looks mistransformed (it needs to be angled), it needs to have the head lasers shrunk a tad and flared out, but otherwise I'd say it looks pretty solid. It's light years ahead of anything Bandai ever accomplished before (for Macross) and this is from a sagging resin prototype. I suspect many people who hate it at this point will have it grow on them if just some slight imperfections in sculpt are its worst problems.

Edited May 23, 2008 by jenius

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Heh, I've said it before, but Bandai have no idea about designing Valks. Other mecha, epscially Gundams yes, but Valks no.

They should go crawing to Yamato on hands and knees to ask for design help "Help us Yamato, you're our only hope!"

Heh, the master (Bandai), has become the student.......LOL!

In a few years (I hope) you will all kneel before the awesomeness that is the Yamato VF-25 .....Mwahahahaha!

No wonder Kawamori-san has been frowning in all the photos with the Bandai design staff.

Graham

Yeah, poor Mr K, 3 years....

[Beware of Blast]

It's so cute how you're not able to apply the same level of butthurt you have over yamato and to people who choose to buy their toys over to other companies.

Um, maybe it's because the other companies aren't that gay? If you are ever aware of Bandai's way of doing things, they are very inflexible, Ie:- they don't really practice listening to fans... the ugly prototype you saw is what you'll probably get as a final product. The only saving grace about Bandai is we can be sure of the durability and the mechanics of transformation will be of top quality.

So yeah, it's much easier for Yamato to imbue better build quality and mechanics on top of their already superb valk accuracy. That's why the level of butthurt is never the same. Don't know why you find it cute though - I don't swing that way.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Beware of Blast

[Graham]

Really, I don't think this toy is all that hideous. Looking at the battroid, the chest looks a little chunky, the pelvis looks mistransformed (it needs to be angled), it needs to have the head lasers shrunk a tad and flared out, but otherwise I'd say it looks pretty solid. It's light years ahead of anything Bandai ever accomplished before (for Macross) and this is from a sagging resin prototype. I suspect many people who hate it at this point will have it grow on them if just some slight imperfections in sculpt are its worst problems.

IMO, at the moment the Bandai sculpt looks like something Yamato would have put out 8 years ago.

Oh, the toy can definitely be improved a lot by a few small changes, but whatever they do, they have to get rid of that hinge pin on the canopy. I really, really can't believe that.

Graham

[eugimon]

IMO, at the moment the Bandai sculpt looks like something Yamato would have put out 8 years ago.

Oh, the toy can definitely be improved a lot by a few small changes, but whatever they do, they have to get rid of that hinge pin on the canopy. I really, really can't believe that.

Graham

meh, you're too kind. Looks more like something bandai would have made... 13 years ago. Chubby, chunky and resigned to merely resemble the valkyrie it tries to be.

[eriku]

I'm not sure I see the hinge pin on the cockpit that has people so fired up. Can someone kindly post a photo with the area circled in red?

[Beware of Blast]

I'm not sure I see the hinge pin on the cockpit that has people so fired up. Can someone kindly post a photo with the area circled in red?

Bandai can definitely do better than that but it seems to me they just don't do it for Macross.