bsu legato Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Ask and ye shall recieve. The design would have looked far more convincing if it was drawn by hand instead of using the crappy CGI. Umm....isn't that just the "Izumo" from Mospeada (don't have the faintest clue what RT calls it)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Keith not throwing up is a ringing endorsement? Well, I'm not sure you were aware of Keith's stance before hand. Not to speak for the guy but he was pretty certain he'd hate it and rank it with Space Gandam. What it all comes down to is what really matters to you. Was MacZero great because it was pretty or did it suck because the story was jumpy and lame? If you liked it because it was pretty then RT will be a huge let down to you. Do you hate RT in the first place? Well, this probably isn't going to make you change your mind. Do you only watch movies that people on forum boards tell you are great? Clearly this would not be one of them. If you can get beyond animation enough to still watch something like Orguss and enjoy the story then you may just find it enjoyable but if you need sparkling Hollywood goodness then hold out for the next scifi blockbuster. If you have a diehard stance on where you thought RT ought to go then this will only let you down because you didn't write it. Do you only want an RT show that features all the old characters? Well, this isn't that either. There are LOTS of people this won't appeal to... but anyone who reviews anything and doesn't say that is lying. How's the old M7 argument go though? How do you know something sucks until you've tested the waters yourself. There's always a torrent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 If you think of this as the first few episodes from a late 90s TV show it pretty much fits right in. Great. Too bad it's technically the late 00's. Or, at least it is by my calender. So what, we're supposed to pretend it's 1997 to enjoy this now? I'm glad to see no RT fans are reaching to find anything positive about this debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Great. Too bad it's technically the late 00's. Or, at least it is by my calender. So what, we're supposed to pretend it's 1997 to enjoy this now? I'm glad to see no RT fans are reaching to find anything positive about this debacle. That was actually me teasing how bad the animation was.. not trying to make it sound good (but still sayinig it's not the WORST ever... lol, just not good.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Well, I'm not sure you were aware of Keith's stance before hand. Not to speak for the guy but he was pretty certain he'd hate it and rank it with Space Gandam. What it all comes down to is what really matters to you. Was MacZero great because it was pretty or did it suck because the story was jumpy and lame? If you liked it because it was pretty then RT will be a huge let down to you. Do you hate RT in the first place? Well, this probably isn't going to make you change your mind. Mac Zero sucked and I loved RT. Do you only watch movies that people on forum boards tell you are great? Nope... but if I did would it make the Shadow Chronicles a good mech show with a great story? If you can get beyond animation enough to still watch something like Orguss and enjoy the story then you may just find it enjoyable Will I really? So what else do I need to get beyond? The ugly CG, the badly drawn characters and the silly plotline that doesn't follow what it's says it would? I guess if I can beyond that then I might enjoy it... if I can get beyond the fact that crap tastes like crap, then I guess there's a slight chance I might enjoy it... but very improbable since I'm pretty sure it's still crap. but if you need sparkling Hollywood goodness then hold out for the next scifi blockbuster. which one? Ghost Rider? Again if I waited for a piece of crap like Ghost Rider or the Transformers and I happen to enjoy it, will that make SC a better show or do I still need to get beyond all the obvious reasons? If you have a diehard stance on where you thought RT ought to go then this will only let you down because you didn't write it. Is that the reason it'll let me down, because I didn't write it? Or is that after I get beyond the said obvious reasons? Do you only want an RT show that features all the old characters? Nope... can I get a good cartoon now? Well, this isn't that either. and if they did use old characters, would it turn out better or would you say it'll still have crappy CG, bad costume design and a not so well written story? There are LOTS of people this won't appeal to... no kidding... but anyone who reviews anything and doesn't say that is lying. so that's the sole reason I should enjoy it? Or are you just reviewing it for the people that can get passed all the obvious reasons? Why even review it , if the review isnt for everyone? How's the old M7 argument go though? How do you know something sucks until you've tested the waters yourself. There's always a torrent! So the fact that I torrented it and didn't buy it should make it less sucky... got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) So saying it's "just okay" isn't a proper review? Saying "some will like this and others won't" makes my point invalid. Saying "the best thing to do is find out for yourself" makes me a terrible utterly irrational person. Got it. Thank you for your intelligent input. Edited February 8, 2007 by jenius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 So saying it's "just okay" isn't a proper review? Saying "some will like this and others won't" makes my point invalid. Saying "the best thing to do is find out for yourself" makes me a terrible utterly irrational person. Got it. Thank you for your intelligent input. I guess a reviewer that says "go find out for yourself" would be the more intelligent input... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 QUOTE How's the old M7 argument go though? How do you know something sucks until you've tested the waters yourself. There's always a torrent! So the fact that I torrented it and didn't buy it should make it less sucky... got it! Think of it this way, if you downloaded it, you saved the world from having to fork over 25 bucks so HG might learn what crap tastes like.....and it tastes like.....bad CGI I saw it at FRY's during lunch, 19.99......I don't mind the cover design, it's ummm, it's decent....but all honesty...I'd rather download a semi-good quality version of it and judge if it really would be worth my 20 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) I guess a reviewer that says "go find out for yourself" would be the more intelligent input... See, I think you have a misunderstanding of who I am or what I'm doing. I'm not advertising Shadow Chronicles. I don't work for HG. I'm just some guy who watched it and said "it's okay. Not terrible, has some weak spots, but overall not too bad. Worth givin' it a watch if you don't already hate it from everything else you've heard." I then teased a bit for the weak spots. I'm not a professional reviewer. I'm not on these boards to get a message out, I thought I was participating in conversation and debating the good with the bad. I didn't realize you were holding me to some higher level and I was supposed to be offering up something definitive for you. Do me a favor, demote me from this "reviewer" status you've given me and just consider my comments the same as any other random board member. Here you go Exo, here's a professional review that's obviously not biased (it's only on Robotech.com's website): A Review for you Edited February 8, 2007 by jenius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 See, I think you have a misunderstanding of who I am.... I didn't realize you were holding me to some higher level and I was supposed to be offering up something definitive for you. I think it's you that misunderstand who I am. Do me a favor, demote me from this "reviewer" status you've given me and just consider my comments the same as any other random board member. I never said you were a professional reviewer nor would I ever. And it wasn't me that gave you that imaginary status... and what's wrong with me arguing with you? You seem to be OK with doing it with people you disagree with... talking about RT on MW is fun, remember? I'm just having fun... don't spoil it for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Umm....isn't that just the "Izumo" from Mospeada (don't have the faintest clue what RT calls it)? Nope, that is the SDF-03, though it looks reminescent of the SDF-04 Liberator (Izumo). Here is the SDF-04 in all its underwhelming glory. Of the two versions, I must say I much preferred the anime one to this CGI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I never said you were a professional reviewer nor would I ever. And it wasn't me that gave you that imaginary status... and what's wrong with me arguing with you? You seem to be OK with doing it with people you disagree with... talking about RT on MW is fun, remember? I'm just having fun... don't spoil it for me... LOL, my bad. I didn't realize you were striving to be juvenile! I'm in the game again then... lord knows I can play that game with the best of 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARKARY Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'm curious, does Maia ever even say her last name? I remember when I was watching it I was wondering if anyone would ever reference her parents but it seemed to me they went out of their way not to. Also, all we know of are Maia, Dana, Max, and Miriya, that's not a whole army... my family is that size too . A lot of people here have complained about Space Station Liberty being blown up. Why? I thought it worked fine for a plot point. I agree with Arkany about how silly the whole "PROBLEM WITH THE MISSILES" was and how we never learned what it was. Seems to me that the inclination though is that they're far more destructive then anticipated and had they been used the Earth forces would have destroyed themselves with the planet. Since they are so awesomely destructive Vince is able to use one to blow up (an apparently very slow moving) Haydonite fleet. I got lots of issues with the film though but I think most mine are quasi-fanboy-related. The Betas not being as cool as they should be, the Betas not separating as Arkany pointed out, the lack of Southern Cross anything (other than Louis), the lack of the cooler Invid mechs, the re-writing of the battle at Reflex Point. Yeah, they mention Maia's last name once or twice. And the thing that was bugging me about that was between Robotech and Macross as well, every subsequent release seems to feature a new and different Sterling/Jenius child. I'm just wondering where Maia came from if the SDF-3 has supposedly been missing the whole time. As for the station being destroyed, my gripe with it was I think I missed the plot point where they explained why they needed to blow it up, as opposed to, like, launching the missiles or something. And again with how much they stressed how important the flaw in the missiles was, it wasn't brought up once after the first missiles were dealt with. And I don't recall if they mentioned where Liberty station was located, but I think it was still located in the Solar system. If so, and the missiles do go and create black holes, then detonating them there is still dangerous anyway. The betas were annoying since they weren't shown to be seperate mecha once, and were instead nothing more than alpha FAST packs. And again, they are seperate mecha so the false tension in multiple points with damaged ones is really weak. And actually, it would have been cool, and probably fairly safe from a copyright standpoint, to include more Southern Cross stuff. There's no way they could get away with showing valks or any Macross-era stuff, but I don't think SC was ever popular enough in the US or Japan for anyone to really complain if they were used. Who knows, a more modern remake of some of that stuff could actually make it cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 LOL, my bad. I didn't realize you were striving to be juvenile! I'm in the game again then... lord knows I can play that game with the best of 'em! you were never in the game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Yeah, they mention Maia's last name once or twice. And the thing that was bugging me about that was between Robotech and Macross as well, every subsequent release seems to feature a new and different Sterling/Jenius child. I'm just wondering where Maia came from if the SDF-3 has supposedly been missing the whole time. Yeah, the Sterling/Jenius clan to get a lot of play. My understanding of it is that the REF and the SDF-3 were all at one spot together. Most the REF then jumps back to Earth space while the SDF-3 runs some errands (like testing the NS missile). This means that the SDF-3 hasn't been away from the REF for very long at all. In fact, the REF seems to think the SDF-3 is right behind them and that's why Vince is freaking out in the beginning before Rick even calls. I think it just seems like the SDF-3 has been missing for a long time because we remember Scott not being able to contact the expeditionary force but that's kind of another issue up until the battle at Reflex Point (where Rick honestly did go missing). As for the station being destroyed, my gripe with it was I think I missed the plot point where they explained why they needed to blow it up, as opposed to, like, launching the missiles or something. And again with how much they stressed how important the flaw in the missiles was, it wasn't brought up once after the first missiles were dealt with. I seriously hate when animated shows could solve huge problems with a simple sentence of dialogue. I agree completely with you and all it would have took was a few seconds of talking for the whole audience to be much better in the loop. If I'm not mistaken though, there is a sentence by Vince where he says something to the effect that he's not going to actually launch the missile at the Haydonites because it's their technology and he doesn't want to find out how they could turn it against him (so he has to be sneaky). My memory is a bit fuzzy but there's at least some half-arse reason he gives. And actually, it would have been cool, and probably fairly safe from a copyright standpoint, to include more Southern Cross stuff. There's no way they could get away with showing valks or any Macross-era stuff, but I don't think SC was ever popular enough in the US or Japan for anyone to really complain if they were used. Who knows, a more modern remake of some of that stuff could actually make it cooler. Amen. My only thought there would be that they might not want to do this if this is going to be Mospeada 2 in Japan. Other than that I think it's a terrible waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARKARY Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Oh, one extra thing I have to comment on. I love the line the Regis has with Ariel in the hive. She says something like, "Their new Shadow technology makes them invisible to our sensors. Here, let me show you a live video feed of them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The best line in the movie: "Looking forward to it Sir." I don't know why but I found that hilarious (if you don't know what I'm talking about, Scott says it at a completely inappropriate moment). You reminded me of the best line in the original Robotech: "Those missing in action, where are they?" - Emerson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 See, for those that saw it.. told you it sucked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) As I said, I rank this on a cheesey american sci-fi scale, not a true anime scale. I place this in my guilty pleasure animation catagory, along with Titan A.E., G-Savoir (Canada is in america afterall), and Rock & Rule. So bad it's entertaining. As opposed to Space Gandam V & The Sentinels, which fall into the painful to watch, but I have to own it because it has a Macross rip-off in it catagory. About the CG, I wouldn't doubt if the renders were handled by different people/groups. The capitol ship renders all stink of Jason Netter (formally of Netter Digital) and his B5 work. The Legioss/Alpha's look like they dug up whoever did the Last Starfighter renders, and the Haydonite fighters look like bad Japanese video game cannon fodder fighters. I'd be surprised if I wasn't correct on at least 2 out of 3 of those guesses. Animation wise, I think the thing that bugged me the most were the inside cockpit shots, it literally looked like animated faces were pasted onto CG bodies. That, and of course the lack of bounce in the huge titties. BTW, I loved Zero, both story & animation. But then I'm one of the few continuing Kawamori supporters around here these days, at least one of the fe vocal ones. In both catagories, SC didn't even come close to Zero. Complain about the floating rocks & space monsters all you want, but the regis with a bird body was one of the funniest damn things I've seen recently. If nothing else, watching this has just made me want Exosquad on DVD even more. Edited February 8, 2007 by Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 but the regis with a bird body was one of the funniest damn things I've seen recently. Didn't the Regis take the form of the "Phoenix of Mindstuff" (to steal a RT novel term) in the original conclusion to RT:NG/Mospaeda?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Reggae Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Red Devil, mucho thanks for the pix of the SDF-3 and SDF-4. I'm hoping to pick up the DVD in the next couple of days...as a former Robotech fan who became a Macross convert, I'm curious to see what nostalgia factor will come into play for me. One last question, about the Ark Angel--what's the backstory behind it? On RT.com's mecha size comparison page, it's shown as being substantially larger than the SDF-3 and -4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Reggae Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Didn't the Regis take the form of the "Phoenix of Mindstuff" (to steal a RT novel term) in the original conclusion to RT:NG/Mospaeda?? You remember correctly...and I'd forgotten about that "mindstuff" term too. It used to sound cool to me, way back when, but now it sounds like a bad Rachel Ray cooking word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'm hoping to pick up the DVD in the next couple of days...as a former Robotech fan who became a Macross convert, I'm curious to see what nostalgia factor will come into play for me. Nostalgia won't be much of a factor when it comes to watching this story. For something that keeps touting the continuation of a story after 20 long years, there's nothing other than a few old character names to help fans associate or feel any sort of connection to the Robotech stories of old. Additionally, unless you've read the less than stellar Sentinel's novels a person would be lost and unfamiliar with the setting and characters of the Shadow Chronicles. Janice Em? Haydonites? Vince Grant? Huh? Fans looking for nostalgia will find themselves lost in space like the SDF-3. Well, at least the Ariel and Janice Em character designs are pretty yummy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Reggae Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Actually, I was reading the Sentinels novels into my early 20's, and since RT was the end-all, be-all of anime storytelling for me at the time (except for Akira), I remember all of the plot elements pretty well, even from all of the Robotech novels. The trick for me will be to judge (initially, at least) TSC's animation in comparison to the original RT series. I've seen Mac Zero and Plus, but I'd like to look at TSC visually as its own entity compared to the original animation. Since I've become a Macross fan, though, this might be a bit tough, both in terms of animation and story. Story-wise, I'm curious to see how they address the gaping continuity holes (or how they don't), especially since I still remember all of End of the Circle. Lol...this sounds like Secret Confessions of a Former Robotech Junkie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Don't apologize. It IS very bad CG. And I say this as a fan of Robotech. As I said earlier, I don't know which I dislike more, this or The Sentinels. At least the animation for The Sentinels has the excuse of being a salvage job never really intended to be broadly released. Thanks for understanding. I'm just so amazed at how poor it is. The VideoToaster used in early 90's sci-fi television looks better than this. For a 2007 release, this show is so far behind the curve it's not even appropriate to call it last generation. Egads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Did she turn into a physical bird before an energy phoenix deally in Mospeada? I thought she just turned into the energy deally? But I'll have to check the animation again to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 She just turns into energy and the energy later resembles a Phoenix. In the original Mospeada there's a case for the Regess as having no physical form at all... she's clearly transparent in many scenes. That said, she also shows off the ability to transmutate in her little spiritual fire pit quite frequently also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shade Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) I was snooping over at the RT.com message boards to see what the reaction over there is. Ummm... The only thing I can really think of is the Star Wars Prequels apologists: as long as it carries the franchise's name, it's the greatest piece of work ever. Seriously, there are people over there saying this is really an awesome movie. Of course, there are some who are bashing it, but they're being drowned out by the "I'm loving it crowd". HG also put up a link to a review of SC, as you can expect, it's a positive one. This guy is a game reviewer, not a movie reviewer, so take it with a grain of salt. Gamerz-Edge Review Edited February 8, 2007 by The Shade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 As I said, I rank this on a cheesey american sci-fi scale, not a true anime scale. I place this in my guilty pleasure animation catagory, along with Titan A.E., G-Savoir (Canada is in america afterall), and Rock & Rule. So bad it's entertaining. You're one of those people. Yeh, this release probably isn't even worth downloading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 You're one of those people. Yeh, this release probably isn't even worth downloading. I sure you meant that in a nice way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penachoy Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Oh, one extra thing I have to comment on. I love the line the Regis has with Ariel in the hive. She says something like, "Their new Shadow technology makes them invisible to our sensors. Here, let me show you a live video feed of them." HAHAHAHHA! Oh man that's true! Shadow technology glitches at times I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Shhh,. you're going to blow the Invid's scam, they set the whole thing up to steal Earth's nacho's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechafan Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I have seen it now and it was ok. I still was disappointed in some of the animation and plot choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Oh, one extra thing I have to comment on. I love the line the Regis has with Ariel in the hive. She says something like, "Their new Shadow technology makes them invisible to our sensors. Here, let me show you a live video feed of them." I feel like people that say that 'it's so bad it's entertaining' are just forcing themselves to enjoy it because of it's remote connection to RT. Don't apologize. It IS very bad CG. And I say this as a fan of Robotech. As I said earlier, I don't know which I dislike more, this or The Sentinels. At least the animation for The Sentinels has the excuse of being a salvage job never really intended to be broadly released. As I said before, it's just a remake/reimagining of the Sentinels and it'll be exactly the same outcome... just another incomplete project that'll leave the RT crowd sitting around hoping for what could've been. You'd think people woulda learned the first time. Maybe they'll try it again for the 40th anniversary and there'll still be one or two suckers around to buy it, justifying the quality and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justvinnie Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thanks for understanding. I'm just so amazed at how poor it is. The VideoToaster used in early 90's sci-fi television looks better than this. For a 2007 release, this show is so far behind the curve it's not even appropriate to call it last generation. Egads! Hey, watch it! Tommy says SC has OVA-quality animation and HG says it's award winning. How could they possibly be wrong? vinnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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