Just Watched Jurassic Park Again

[NERV]

all they had was shotguns, a shotgun wudnt penetrate dinosaur hid from a distance, and it would only piss off the big ones, like what was their plan for if the T-rex escaped? hope it was friendly and talk it back into it's paddock? who the hell runs a zoo without stocking some powerful tranquilizers?

[JKeats]

Wha?

[Agent ONE]

Interesting... I always thought that whole 'recreating dinosaurs' was the fake part.

[NERV]

Interesting... I always thought that whole 'recreating dinosaurs' was the fake part.

the aquisition of the dino DNA wasnt too unrealistic, but filling in the DNA gaps with frog DNA was kinda dumb, why not collect multipe samples of DNA of the same dinosaur until you have a complete DNA strand?

[Hurin]

Elephants are often killed by police with pistols. They are also slaughtered by poachers with rifles. Before that, we used spears.

Dinosaurs weren't made of Kevlar.

But wait, exactly how do you know how thick their skin is?

H

[Hurin]

the aquisition of the dino DNA wasnt too unrealistic, but filling in the DNA gaps with frog DNA was kinda dumb, why not collect multipe samples of DNA of the same dinosaur until you have a complete DNA strand?

I think the point was that the insects in amber were rare.

[NERV]

Elephants are often killed by police with pistols. They are also slaughtered by poachers with rifles. Before that, we used spears.

Dinosaurs weren't made of Kevlar.

But wait, exactly how do you know how thick their skin is?

H

rifles and pistole use bullets, they penetrate better, shotgun is a spray of pellets, as i understand it, shotguns are to a rhino what a BB is to a human, yes it can kill if its a wellplaced shot but the chances are ti would just sting and piss it off, and a t-rex is a hell of alot bigger than an elephant, its only logical to think that sometihng liek a T-rex or triceratops would have extremely thick skin, the teeth that the T-rex had to eat other dinosaurs are proof of that, and raptors needed a 6 inch long claw to hunt, no predators these days have weapons that extreme, they were needed back then

[Hurin]

Could have sworn that the Australian dude was carrying an assault rifle. But I haven't watched that crappy movie since I read the book and realized how badly it paled in comparison.

H

[David Hingtgen]

IIRC, in the book they specified that they engineered the dinos to be incredibly dependent upon a certain food supplement, and that if they didn't get it, they'd die in hours. If one gets loose, just close all the feed bins, since "random" goats/people etc it'd eat wouldn't have that supplement. (A certain amino acid IIRC). Not an "immediate" solution, but effective against any size dino.

[Sumdumgai]

Elephants are often killed by police with pistols.  They are also slaughtered by poachers with rifles.  Before that, we used spears.

Dinosaurs weren't made of Kevlar.

But wait, exactly how do you know how thick their skin is?

H

rifles and pistole use bullets, they penetrate better, shotgun is a spray of pellets, as i understand it, shotguns are to a rhino what a BB is to a human, yes it can kill if its a wellplaced shot but the chances are ti would just sting and piss it off, and a t-rex is a hell of alot bigger than an elephant, its only logical to think that sometihng liek a T-rex or triceratops would have extremely thick skin, the teeth that the T-rex had to eat other dinosaurs are proof of that, and raptors needed a 6 inch long claw to hunt, no predators these days have weapons that extreme, they were needed back then

Actually depending on the range, a blast from a 12 gauge shotgun is like taking a shower of 9mm-short/.38cal bullets. That's with buckshot. If it's a slug round, you've got a big-ass bullet shooting out of your gun that'll probably knock a velociraptor on it's ass. But it's only effective at closer ranges.

There's also flechete rounds for the shotgun, but they're highly illegal in the US. They're shotgun shells that are filled with little barbed darts. Mean as hell.

They might as well have stocked Desert Eagle .50AE pistols since you can hunt bear and deer with them. That might put down the smaller dinosaurs, and good as a back-up. Although you can't use them constantly because they wear out fast (according to the owners of The Gunshop in Las Vegas, they rent guns for their shooting range, but they stopped the Desert Eagle because it can't handle constant use. Too powerful for it's own good or something).

For the slightly bigger ones, a Barret Light 50 ought to do the trick (I forgot what model name it really is. The .50cal sniper rifle.).

M16s with steel-core bullets would probably be effective on dinosaur hide. Although personally in the case of an emergency at Jurassic Park, I'd rather the place be equipped with something that has a bit more punch than 5.56mm/.223cal. Something more like a H&K G3A4 or G3 SAS with 7.62mm ammo.

The shotgun that the Aussie guy was using is the Franchi SPAS12, it's a pump/auto shotgun.

As for going up against something big like a T-rex. Why even bother? You should get out and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Sumdumgai]

IIRC, in the book they specified that they engineered the dinos to be incredibly dependent upon a certain food supplement, and that if they didn't get it, they'd die in hours. If one gets loose, just close all the feed bins, since "random" goats/people etc it'd eat wouldn't have that supplement. (A certain amino acid IIRC). Not an "immediate" solution, but effective against any size dino.

yeah but the raptors that escaped on the boat and made it to the mainland started eating animals and things that had that specidic amino acid. It's been years since I read the first book, but I remember wondering why the author didn't continue along this storyline, rather than go with the lame stuff for the Lost World.

[JB0]

all they had was shotguns, a shotgun wudnt penetrate dinosaur hid from a distance, and it would only piss off the big ones, like what was their plan for if the T-rex escaped? hope it was friendly and talk it back into it's paddock? who the hell runs a zoo without stocking some powerful tranquilizers?

Shoot slugs.

A shotgun slug will go through damn near anything.

</mild-exaggeration>

[mondamoto]

A shotgun firing shot might not penitrate but one firing sabot rounds would. I fired a shotgun loaded with them and it went completely through a tree that was 20 inched thick.

[JB0]

Interesting... I always thought that whole 'recreating dinosaurs' was the fake part.

the aquisition of the dino DNA wasnt too unrealistic, but filling in the DNA gaps with frog DNA was kinda dumb, why not collect multipe samples of DNA of the same dinosaur until you have a complete DNA strand?

Actually, the aquisition of DNA was kinda silly. Tree sap doesn't stop biological processes. The blood would break down in the little bastage's stomach.

And in the book, they spliced in the DNA of the modern animal that most closely matched the area around the gap, instead of just using one animal.

Only 5 species had the frog, and thus only 5 species were breeding.

[JB0]

IIRC, in the book they specified that they engineered the dinos to be incredibly dependent upon a certain food supplement, and that if they didn't get it, they'd die in hours. If one gets loose, just close all the feed bins, since "random" goats/people etc it'd eat wouldn't have that supplement.  (A certain amino acid IIRC).    Not an "immediate" solution, but effective against any size dino.

yeah but the raptors that escaped on the boat and made it to the mainland started eating animals and things that had that specidic amino acid. It's been years since I read the first book, but I remember wondering why the author didn't continue along this storyline, rather than go with the lame stuff for the Lost World.

Chicken and rice, I think. And the amino acid was lysene.

Edited June 9, 2005 by JB0

[EXO]

T-Rex weren't the only type of dinos they had on the island. Different weapons for different types. Besides they had chemical contingencies set up for anything that happened. What happened on the island were a bunch of different events set up so that none of the contingencies were usable. It's called plot device.

[NERV]

the amino acid was lysene and it was used in the movie but they implied that would take more than a matter of hours, probly days, which wouldnt be very good if the park had bene in full swing with lots of ppl around.

based on the scene where grant fired the shotgun thru the window it would imply that it was buckshot, there were 3 small holes int he glass, which obviously werent shot rounds or a slug but it would be more likely shot.

and i said the shotguns would be ineffective at long range, at close range it would probly kill a raptor, still wouldnt do much against anythign triceratops or larger, the conch shell nerve toxin in Lost World would have been something good to pack, too bad the guy in LW never got off a shot with it

[NERV]

T-Rex weren't the only type of dinos they had on the island. Different weapons for different types. Besides they had chemical contingencies set up for anything that happened. What happened on the island were a bunch of different events set up so that none of the contingencies were usable. It's called plot device.

i tihnk a big gun to take down a big animal would be a good contingency, which they aparently didnt tihnk of

[Golden Arms]

[ and a t-rex is a hell of alot bigger than an elephant, its only logical to think that sometihng liek a T-rex or triceratops would have extremely thick skin, the teeth that the T-rex had to eat other dinosaurs are proof of that, and raptors needed a 6 inch long claw to hunt, no predators these days have weapons that extreme, they were needed back then

Many scienist are rethinking their ideas that TRex's were hunters. Many now believe that the t-rex was a scavenger that searched for carrion.

[do not disturb]

well you could always get a 12 gauge slug, then its a wrap but i still don't think a shotgun would take down a t-rex. my last weapon of choice if i had to battle a t-rex would be a shotgun, anyone care to disagree?

i'd want a howitzer, rocket launcher or something that needs tripod mount....bullets ain't doing jack, you gotta hit that sucker with some shells or a rocket if you want to live!

[JB0]

[ and a t-rex is a hell of alot bigger than an elephant, its only logical to think that sometihng liek a T-rex or triceratops would have extremely thick skin, the teeth that the T-rex had to eat other dinosaurs are proof of that, and raptors needed a 6 inch long claw to hunt, no predators these days have weapons that extreme, they were needed back then

Many scienist are rethinking their ideas that TRex's were hunters. Many now believe that the t-rex was a scavenger that searched for carrion.

Actually, that's the minority opinion.

The majority is holding to the belief that Rex was a hunter.

[Stamen0083]

yeah but the raptors that escaped on the boat and made it to the mainland started eating animals and things that had that specidic amino acid. It's been years since I read the first book, but I remember wondering why the author didn't continue along this storyline, rather than go with the lame stuff for the Lost World.

Well, those raptors would probably be disposed of rather quickly. Wouldn't make for a very exciting book, would it?

[Greyryder]

[ and a t-rex is a hell of alot bigger than an elephant, its only logical to think that sometihng liek a T-rex or triceratops would have extremely thick skin, the teeth that the T-rex had to eat other dinosaurs are proof of that, and raptors needed a 6 inch long claw to hunt, no predators these days have weapons that extreme, they were needed back then

Many scienist are rethinking their ideas that TRex's were hunters. Many now believe that the t-rex was a scavenger that searched for carrion.

Actually, that's the minority opinion.

The majority is holding to the belief that Rex was a hunter.

T-rex as a hunter makes no sense. If it's running at full speed to catch its prey, and it trips, it's dead. It has no means of breaking it's fall. The force of the impact would pretty well detonate the T-rex's skull.

The scientific comunity is pretty slow to accept new ideas. Archeologists are the worst, but the paleontologists don't seem to be too far behind.

[Hurin]

T-rex as a hunter makes no sense. If it's running at full speed to catch its prey, and it trips, it's dead. It has no means of breaking it's fall. The force of the impact would pretty well detonate the T-rex's skull.

The scientific comunity is pretty slow to accept new ideas. Archeologists are the worst, but the paleontologists don't seem to be too far behind.

Any four-legged animal that trips and falls nearly always takes the brunt of the impact on its head and neck. But they rarely suffer any ill-effects. Just check out a horse-racing debacle. They all go friggin' tumbling right onto their noggins before they spin around and flip over. It's not like they "catch themselves" on their legs.

I can't think of a skull more ready for impact than a T-Rex's.

H

[Myriad]

Spielburg raped my childhood by making dinos that did not act clumsy......

[toybotman]

I guess that's right...shotgun = wussy! All the park rangers, the toursists, and especially the children should have been outfitted with large bazookas just in case any dinos decided to get "testy."

"Hey Timmy that dino is looking at you funny!"

"KA-BLAAM"

"Not anymore, he's not!...Stupid $#%@-ing dinosaur"

: )

[JsARCLIGHT]

The "Shotgun" Muldoon was carrying was a Franchi SPAS 12 autoloader (I myself own one, see pic in thread). SPAS 12's are nasty little creations of the Italians. They chamber 2 3/4" shotshells and operate on a pump or semiauto gas fed design. Because these guys are semiauto shotguns they require a quite powerful shotshell to function properly, usually above 3 dram shells 12 gauge.

The SPAS 12 on semiauto is capable of emptying it's magazine of 6 to 8 shells in less than 15 seconds if you can hold onto the thing long enough. I have done a mag dump on mine once and only once, my shoulder almost dislocated and my last shot was almost over the berm at the shotgun patterning range.

In other words, a SPAS 12 loaded with 3+ dram "OO" buck shells or magnum slugs will literally tear a man in half. These rounds where made to stop large elk, deer, moose, bear... you get the idea. The shotguns in Jurassic Park where intended to stop really just the Velociraptors, which from what I could tell where roughly human size. The trick was that the raptors moved like cheetahs... a normal rifle would be a pain in the ass to hit them with, hence the shotgun. The only downside of a shotgun is range, they are only effective to about 50 meters. Past that and they just piss things off. If Muldoon had connected with his shot on that raptor that got him he would have punched a rather lethal mess into that thing... but alas, poor Muldoon was an idiot and handloaded one shell into his SPAS.

Another thing to point out is the mysterious "stovepipe" jam on the SPAS Sam Neill's character drops... this kind of jam never happens on a SPAS 12 shotgun. In pump mode there is no such thing as a "jam" on it and in semi mode it will only jam like that if you are using squib shells like beanbag rounds that have very little charge in them... and even then it still fully ejects the spent shell but fails to load the next round requiring you to hand pump it. The SPAS got a nasty rep for being a finicky shotgun but they are tanks if you know how to use them.

[Hurin]

The "Shotgun" Muldoon was carrying was a Franchi SPAS 12 autoloader (I myself own one, see pic in thread). SPAS 12's are nasty little creations of the Italians. They chamber 2 3/4" shotshells and operate on a pump or semiauto gas fed design. Because these guys are semiauto shotguns they require a quite powerful shotshell to function properly, usually above 3 dram shells 12 gauge.

The SPAS 12 on semiauto is capable of emptying it's magazine of 6 to 8 shells in less than 15 seconds if you can hold onto the thing long enough. I have done a mag dump on mine once and only once, my shoulder almost dislocated and my last shot was almost over the berm at the shotgun patterning range.

In other words, a SPAS 12 loaded with 3+ dram "OO" buck shells or magnum slugs will literally tear a man in half. These rounds where made to stop large elk, deer, moose, bear... you get the idea. The shotguns in Jurassic Park where intended to stop really just the Velociraptors, which from what I could tell where roughly human size. The trick was that the raptors moved like cheetahs... a normal rifle would be a pain in the ass to hit them with, hence the shotgun. The only downside of a shotgun is range, they are only effective to about 50 meters. Past that and they just piss things off. If Muldoon had connected with his shot on that raptor that got him he would have punched a rather lethal mess into that thing... but alas, poor Muldoon was an idiot and handloaded one shell into his SPAS.

Another thing to point out is the mysterious "stovepipe" jam on the SPAS Sam Neill's character drops... this kind of jam never happens on a SPAS 12 shotgun. In pump mode there is no such thing as a "jam" on it and in semi mode it will only jam like that if you are using squib shells like beanbag rounds that have very little charge in them... and even then it still fully ejects the spent shell but fails to load the next round requiring you to hand pump it. The SPAS got a nasty rep for being a finicky shotgun but they are tanks if you know how to use them.

Wow. . . you mean we're not always smarter than the people who make movies!?!

H

[JsARCLIGHT]

For the most part the guns in Jurassic Park could have been blowguns because they where just there as setpieces to the story. Sam Neill's shotgun jams and he drops it otherwise were is the terror if he just guns down the raptors right off the bat? Same thing with Muldoon only loading in one shotshell... it was to illustrate that he saw himself as a fair hunter and that he wanted to "outsmart" the lead raptor rather than just kill it. I am in full agreement that shotguns, while nasty inventions, would be rather useless against the larger dinos. Even a Barrett .50 cal anti-vehicle rifle would take a good solid shot to kill one quickly. After all, we are talking about large animals with (from what I have heard) simple nervous systems. You could pump ammo into a T-Rex for minutes and without a solid CNS hit to the brain or spine I bet it would keep coming at you. Heck, even all the reports of Elephants killed with rifles it took several shots and several minutes to bring the animal down.

My bet would be if one got loose they'd track it from the air with a chopper and hit the thing with anit-vehicle munitions like a minigun or zuni rockets, something that would drop the beastie instantly rather than poke holes in it and wait for pain and bloodloss to bring it down.

[grss1982]

As for going up against something big like a T-rex. Why even bother? You should get out and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Should'nt you try some nerve gas, first? thats what Vasquez first proposed to do.

[JB0]

[ and a t-rex is a hell of alot bigger than an elephant, its only logical to think that sometihng liek a T-rex or triceratops would have extremely thick skin, the teeth that the T-rex had to eat other dinosaurs are proof of that, and raptors needed a 6 inch long claw to hunt, no predators these days have weapons that extreme, they were needed back then

Many scienist are rethinking their ideas that TRex's were hunters. Many now believe that the t-rex was a scavenger that searched for carrion.

Actually, that's the minority opinion.

The majority is holding to the belief that Rex was a hunter.

T-rex as a hunter makes no sense. If it's running at full speed to catch its prey, and it trips, it's dead. It has no means of breaking it's fall. The force of the impact would pretty well detonate the T-rex's skull.

The scientific comunity is pretty slow to accept new ideas. Archeologists are the worst, but the paleontologists don't seem to be too far behind.

But the fossil footprints show that, whether or not it makes sense, the T Rex DID run at full speed.

Hell, the full speed estimate is BASED ON THE FOOTPRINTS.

See, this is what I find wrong with Jack Horner's scavenger theory.

The TRex has hunter teeth, not scavenger teeth.

The TRex DID run at full speed, whether his logic says it could or not.

They've even found dinosaurs with healed TRex wounds on their bones, if I recall.

[1 VF-1 2NV]

That reminds me...I need to play dino crisis 1 & 2 on my playstatin console. I haven't finished those games yet.

[reddsun1]

What? You guys don't like JP? I always liked that movie. Even liked the second one too; those Japanese tourists running down the street going "Gojira! Gojira!" was a bit cliched, but still funny. The bit when the kid tried to wake his parents, then the T-Rex raised up with "fido's" doghouse dangling was pretty funny too. I just pretend the third movie (Lost World?) never existed--definitely a let down of a sequel.

I thought the dinosaur's unexpected ability to breed was explained by "mutation of the donated frog DNA" making them hermaphroditic(sp?) or something?

The lack of contingencies--at least in the 1st movie--were largely attributed to John Hammond's being somewhat overenthusiastic and naive. He was short-sighted, and as Jeff Goldblum's character--to paraphrase--so succintly stated "we're so busy asking if we can when we ought to be asking if we should." I think it can be inferred that Hammond hurriedly funded putting the park together, but didn't heed the warnings/input of his animal control man Muldoon. IIRC, there's a scene where he just poo-poo's whatever Muldoon says, as he's so anxious to get his tour started and wow his potential supporters.

I don't think that directly confronting the T-Rex was even considered as an option. I don't give a damn how big the gun is, would you consider facing down a bigsonuvabitch like that if it was charging/chasing you? Not me, that's fer damn sure...unless maybe it's a BAZOOKA...and I got three or four hundred yards between me and it...and a concrete bomb shelter to dive into right behind me if I miss...

[Max Jenius]

Well, then the issue is settled. Shotties for anti-raptor combat. Nice try though.

In the book some dinos managed to escape and were hunting animals rich in the amino acid lysine. While I liked the book more, I didn't see anything really wrong with the movie. I wish they had included the younger T-rex though and it toying with that man before killing him. Also the swimming dinos and their "escape."

[Opus]

I never read the book and I thought the movie was silly, but if I were going dino hunting I think I'd use one of these: