Skippy438 Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Let me start off by saying that I am a young Star Wars fan. I am 20, so my experience started with the Trilogy release on VHS, and then the Special Editions a few years later in both the theatres and VHS. So, in order to prepare my girlfriend for episode 3, I bought the trilogy on DVD. Let me also say that I really didn't mind the Special Editions, at the time they were released I actually thought they were really cool. But thanks to the DVD revolution, it has been many years since I last saw them in their entirety. So here we are, with the new DVDs ... and there are changes. That in and of itself does not bother me. I like the new Jabba, I thought the old CG one looked stupid. I can also forgive changing the Emperor in Empire (though the dialogue is kinda wierd, and I can't remember how it went originally). I can even, though I hate to admit it, forgive changing Boba Fett's voice. But adding Hayden Christiansen's head into the final scene ... I seriously thought people were joking. For a year I thought people were just joking about that, I never did research to find out if it was true. And that just pisses me off. And I don't even think Hayden is a terrible Anakin (I tend to blame Lucas more for that. And he's leaps and bounds above the kid in Ep. 1). It's just the one change that I don't understand the necesity for. It doesn't make sense to me. I've heard Lucas' explanation, but again, I don't like it. Maybe it's because it's 3 in the morning, and I've been drinking and watching Star Wars instead of writing a paper, but seriously! What is the deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rogers Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Some people just can't stop tinkering with their creation. Lucas happens to be one of those guys. He doesn't really care if all the changes will piss people off. He figured since you can't please everyone, might as well please yourself. Hmm, that didn't sound too right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akilae Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 egad... I need to get my THX widescreen VHS cassettes transferred to DVD... always thought the Christiansen head switch was some sort of joke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LePoseur Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 egad... I need to get my THX widescreen VHS cassettes transferred to DVD... Some people over at originaltrilogy.com are WAY AHEAD of you. I was working on a LD to DVD project from my old Definitive Collection set two years ago, that is, until I stumbled into their forums. Now I'm just waiting on the Zion discs so I can trash my TR47's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 lol I gotta see Hayens head on the final movie >< that'd be funny to laugh at for a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwmwww Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I've heard Lucas' explanation, but again, I don't like it. I haven't. Could someone post a link? Just curious to hear what he has to say. Thanks, Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBebop Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 They should've aged Hayden Christensen for that shot (whether through CGI or makeup). I thought that was kind of goofy to add Hayden and I also thought it was sort of disrespectful to the late Sebastian Shaw who played the old Anakin. (BTW, the 100th B-Day of the late Sebastian Shaw is 10 days after the release of Episode III). Just my two woolongs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I don't care. That's how he looked when he was last a whole man. Its not like Shaw added anything anyway all he did was sit there and smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBebop Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 (edited) I don't care. That's how he looked when he was last a whole man. Its not like Shaw added anything anyway all he did was sit there and smile. Yeah, very true, that was James Earl Jones' voice after the mask was taken off, wasn't it? All grins from ol' Sebastian all right! I still think they should've aged Hayden, "whole" man before or otherwise. Hell, better yet, they should've also took the late Alec Guiness off and put Ewan in his place! Young Jedis again now that Darth is gone! Another two woolongs! Edited May 19, 2005 by USMCBebop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Samurai Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I have been willing to accept whatever silly reasons Lucas and/or the obsessively loyal fanbase come up with for why we see a young Anakin, but what constantly irritates me about that scene isn't the fact that we see Christiansen over Shaw, but the expression. Shaw's Anakin is a content man proud of his son. His expression is one of a man who has finally found peace and is happy. It's a great way to end the series. Christiansen, on the other hand, for some reason was directed to give his 'looking from under my brows' smirky glare. From a different actor might've been an attempt to have him shyly raise his eyes from a downcast glance, but from Hayden it's his trade mark 'I'm a serial killer' look that he uses whether he's trying to kill someone or woo a senator into bed... THAT's what really doesn't work for me in that scene. It ends Star Wars on an almost creepy note instead of the whole 'the hero family is happy and together and the old guy ghosts are happy and together too' feel the originals had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit29 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I don't care. That's how he looked when he was last a whole man. Its not like Shaw added anything anyway all he did was sit there and smile. Ya I agree but it just looks wierd. Same with the "new" emperor in ESB or the new voice of Boba Fett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I knew the change was real it's one of the few DVD scenes I've seen... I have to get ahold of them just so that I can see what kinda trainwrek it is. Reminds me of these parodies of different things firing at solo first (the control consol the trash compactor). But having all three versions of the trilogy on DVD would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I don't care. That's how he looked when he was last a whole man. Its not like Shaw added anything anyway all he did was sit there and smile. Well, Shaw added something for me by actually being there when the footage was shot. The new version looks fakey, like all of the Special Edition crap, which makes the movie look seven kinds of funky. Anybody over the age of 3 can tell the difference between the CGI and the minature models... new effects are cool, but they should really not try to stick them in 20 year old movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 It's not so much the content of the Hayden replacement in RotJ that bugs but the execution. Particularly that he doesn't look like he's looking in the same direction. The expression is weird, too. Aged and "content and proud of his son" would have been better, I agree. I thought the Emperor in TESB was much better than chimp eyes on the gorilla or whatever it was. The dialogue change was interesting but not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 (edited) I don't care. That's how he looked when he was last a whole man. Its not like Shaw added anything anyway all he did was sit there and smile. I'd argue that the scene feels completely different. The scene with Shaw conveys the paternal guidance and amusement the Force glowies have for the youngsters who just saved the day. Luke is seeing his father just as he saw him moments before, but now restored and made whole. Christensen just reminds us of the annoying Jedi that was. The fact that Christensen is to you Anakin as when he was last a whole man gives the scene a completely different meaning. Shaw representing Anakin restored highlights his redemption in the last moments of his life, and that he became fully himself, fully man, with his final act in spite of how much machine he actually was. Christensen as Anakin at his best puts Anakin's growth and development in statis... forever stuck as the whiney, egotistical, arrogant uber jedi the moment he turned to the dark side. At least with me, the scene with Shaw plays entirely differently. -Al EDIT: Can't speel Christensen. Edited May 19, 2005 by Sundown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tico0001 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I don't care. That's how he looked when he was last a whole man. Its not like Shaw added anything anyway all he did was sit there and smile. I'd argue that the scene feels completely different. The scene with Shaw conveys the paternal guidance and amusement the Force glowies have for the youngsters who just saved the day. Luke is seeing his father just as he saw him moments before, but now restored and made whole. Christensen just reminds us of the annoying Jedi that was. The fact that Christensen is to you Anakin as when he was last a whole man gives the scene a completely different meaning. Shaw representing Anakin restored highlights his redemption in the last moments of his life, and that he became fully himself, fully man, with his final act in spite of how much machine he actually was. Christensen as Anakin at his best puts Anakin's growth and development in statis... forever stuck as the whiney, egotistical, arrogant uber jedi the moment he turned to the dark side. At least with me, the scene with Shaw plays entirely differently. -Al EDIT: Can't speel Christensen. You are a mind reader. EXACTLY my thoughts. ~Tico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Leader Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Am I the only one not really bothered by this? I mean, I know I'm not as diehard as some fans, but I guess I always thought it was more important to see the movie for it's value OVERALL than to point out tiny problems (I'm not saying the guys that do are hosers or anything though). -Ian MacDiarmid (or however you spell it) being put in Empire was an excellent move... no one really even cares about the original guy. The dialogue isn't much changed (I think he adds a line or two about Luke being Vader's son). It was well played. -Hayden Christiansen put into RotJ... admittedly it doesn't make much sense (I guess they wanted to portray Anakin as he was last seen before he truly succumbed to the dark side... don't know, don't really care), but I certainly don't think it made RotJ bad... then again, I seem to be the only one that really LIKED RotJ I really enjoy the special editions. I own VHS and DVD-Rs of the original movies (the THX release) to preserve the originals for what they really were, but to be honest, the special editions are all I ever watch anymore. Who cares if you can tell the difference between the puppets and the CG? Whatever happened to watching movies with a little bit of imagination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWR MKII Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 The only gripe i had was the fact that the guy who plays Jango/Clones cant voice over worth a damn. All of Boba Fetts lines seem rushed compared to the Jeremy Bullock dialouge now. Other than that i can live with the changes. I understand why they changed Bobas voice but the gravelly tone implied that Boba had grown up in a different maner to his "father" so why should he have the same voice/accent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Ok, so some people just like some old person smiling. *shrug* A young guy can't be happy for his son? It makes sense to me and it must make sense to the creator. So that's all I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSJ23 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 How old is Vader supposed to be when he dies in ROTJ? 40? 45? 50? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Ok, so some people just like some old person smiling. *shrug*A young guy can't be happy for his son? I think the problem, Max, is that they're saying that he isn't smiling and doesn't look happy at all. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 (edited) You are a mind reader. EXACTLY my thoughts.~Tico No, we just simply watched the same movie. Ok, so some people just like some old person smiling. *shrug*A young guy can't be happy for his son? It makes sense to me and it must make sense to the creator. So that's all I need. At least they like it better than some young person leering oddly. A young guy can be happy for his son. Except his son usually doesn't look older than he does. The scene might "make sense" with exposition or rationalizing, but it comes across as all sorts of weird dramatically. What we see simply doesn't resonate with what we know of father and son relationships, of how they should feel and look like. The change loses the original effect and fails to convey as powerfully the original mood and message, all in favor of force-fitting some actor Lucas is enamored with into a scene he hadn't belonged in for over 20 years. No retcon and exposition will replace what was arguably lost. At least for those of us who actually saw meaning in it, anyway. In Frequency, one of my favorite flicks, they do actually pit a young father with a young son, by way of a freaky radio that works across time. Young father and young son are seen in immediately alternating shots from their own time. But in their wisdom, they still casted the father to appear a little older than the son. And the two never meet face to face until the father ages appropriately. -Al Edited May 20, 2005 by Sundown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobotFool Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 How old is Vader supposed to be when he dies in ROTJ? 40? 45? 50? wasn't he about 10 in phantom menace? then another 10 years pass between that and Attack of the Clones, and about 3 years pass in revenge of the sith. and luke is supposed to be around 20 at the beginning of ANH, so Vader is probably in his mid forties by the start of ANH. How long was the period between ANH and the end of ROTJ supposed to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWR MKII Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 about 5 to 6 years so he would be 45 or 46 give or take a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 -Hayden Christiansen put into RotJ... admittedly it doesn't make much sense That's precisely the problem. Lucas has violated the basic storytelling principle of "Don't tell. Show." with the change. It requires some explaining, and although some of us can understand or hypothesize why the change was made, it's not readily apparent to everyone. The change vaguely ties the movies together at the cost of possible confusion and lost drama. (I guess they wanted to portray Anakin as he was last seen before he truly succumbed to the dark side... don't know, don't really care) That's the second part of the problem. No one really cares about Anakin anymore. They've done a well enough job in the last few movies to cause us to be really tired of him. And everything they've shown us suggests that there was no time past his childhood when he wasn't in some way succumbing to the dark side. You never ever see him embracing the light. Except at the end of RotJ. As Shaw. By removing Shaw from the final scene, we lose the final real Anakin that has actually, definitely, and finally chosen light over dark. I seem to be the only one that really LIKED RotJ I still really like RotJ. The end alone ties up the series well enough. Epic. Appropriate. Except now it's all screwy. -Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Leader Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 also take into effect that his skin no doubt aged horribly after the lava and spending all the time in that suit (no exposure to sunlight, etc). Anyone would appear to age poorly with things like that, so the age seems just about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promethuem5 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Not to be too n00bish, but what exactly did they do the the Emp in ESB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWR MKII Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 They inserted new footage of him talking to vader via holonet instead of the old monkey face thing in the origional cut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 also take into effect that his skin no doubt aged horribly after the lava and spending all the time in that suit (no exposure to sunlight, etc). Anyone would appear to age poorly with things like that, so the age seems just about right. SPOILER Plus, remember how Palpatine ages from the lightning attack. Vader had just been hit by it pretty badly when he dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Let me start off by saying that I am a young Star Wars fan. I am 20, so my experience started with the Trilogy release on VHS, and then the Special Editions a few years later in both the theatres and VHS. So, in order to prepare my girlfriend for episode 3, I bought the trilogy on DVD. Let me also say that I really didn't mind the Special Editions, at the time they were released I actually thought they were really cool. But thanks to the DVD revolution, it has been many years since I last saw them in their entirety. So here we are, with the new DVDs ... and there are changes. That in and of itself does not bother me. I like the new Jabba, I thought the old CG one looked stupid. I can also forgive changing the Emperor in Empire (though the dialogue is kinda wierd, and I can't remember how it went originally). I can even, though I hate to admit it, forgive changing Boba Fett's voice. But adding Hayden Christiansen's head into the final scene ... I seriously thought people were joking. For a year I thought people were just joking about that, I never did research to find out if it was true. And that just pisses me off. And I don't even think Hayden is a terrible Anakin (I tend to blame Lucas more for that. And he's leaps and bounds above the kid in Ep. 1). It's just the one change that I don't understand the necesity for. It doesn't make sense to me. I've heard Lucas' explanation, but again, I don't like it. Maybe it's because it's 3 in the morning, and I've been drinking and watching Star Wars instead of writing a paper, but seriously! What is the deal? What the hell are you talking about!? How does it NOT make sense? Anikin was played by Hayden, therefore he plays Anikin in ALL scenes of Star Wars. Makes perfect sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Better Hayden than Jake Lloyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Sundown, I appreciate and agree with nearly everything you have said regarding the replacement of Shaw with Christiensen. My biggest problem with it, however, is. . . shouldn't Yoda and Kenobi be really pissed that they need to spend the rest of eternity as old fogeys while this jerk who killed all the jedi gets to be a young, handsome punk? Just another "problem" introduced by the change. As with so much else, Lucas was so enamoured with the idea that he could make a change, he never stopped to ask if he should. But remember, he's the creator, and apparently, even though he has drastically changed his outlook towards his own movies over the last twenty years, we are not to criticize anything he chooses to do with his movies. Because they are his and everything he does with them (or retroactively does to them twenty years later) is a good idea. And if you disagree with this infallibility, you're a fanboy. Oh, and all the movies are the same. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWR MKII Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 YIPPIE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Anikin was played by Hayden, therefore he plays Anikin in ALL scenes of Star Wars. Makes perfect sense to me. Except for the part where he doesn't? Shaw still plays Anakin when his helmet is removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinxCrossq Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Anikin was played by Hayden, therefore he plays Anikin in ALL scenes of Star Wars. Makes perfect sense to me. The greatest problem for me it's just that he looks young while Obi wan is still old. This site has some screenshot of the changes: Digital Bits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.