azrael Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 I agree with that and it's always a possibility but why even bother to make 2 seater trainer if they had a pure intent IMO of making a mass produced fighter.Then explain to me why destroids in Macross Zero all the sudden have jump jets or booster packs. Don't tell me their prototypes also which I doubt, since they need a reliable defense system that has been proven in battle. Destroids in the original TV series were slow lumbering tanks and the MO series were more agile their successors. VF-0 trainer? Huh? Concerning Destroids. Different role, different design. The Destroids (for comparison, let's use the Tomahawk) of SDF were front-line combat units that are to be deployed on the ground. The Cheyenne is a carrier-based, anti-aircraft unit. It's primary location is just behind the bridge tower. If it needs to move to a certain spot on the carrier where coverage is less, then it has to move there fast, hence the wheels. And if it falls off the carrier, it will need to get back up, hence the booster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 I agree with that and it's always a possibility but why even bother to make 2 seater trainer if they had a pure intent IMO of making a mass produced fighter. The two-seat VF-0D is not a trainer. It is designed for enhanced attack and electronic warfare capabilities. It has increased air combat maneuverability and 20% greater payload as well as improved electronic warfare capabilities. The VF-1 also has a two-seat version, of course. Then explain to me why destroids in Macross Zero all the sudden have jump jets or booster packs. Don't tell me their prototypes also which I doubt, since they need a reliable defense system that has been proven in battle. Destroids in the original TV series were slow lumbering tanks and the MO series were more agile their successors. There are a couple possible reasons, and hopefully someone can weigh in on this. Perhaps the TV destroids (besides the Monster) had similar thrusters. Perhaps it was found that the Cheyenne's thrusters did not provide any real advantage, and so it was better to instead add more armour/armament. If the Cheyenne was less armoured/lighter that the TV versions, then it might have been a jack of all trades and master of none. It would not have been as quick as variable fighters, and it wouldn't be as powerful as the TV destroids. Maybe it was decided that the tank aspects of the destroids needed to be emphasized, since the Valkyries served as quick attack units.In any event, I don't think a quick version of a destroid with some thrusters prevents the usefulness or likelyhood of the designs of the TV destroids. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 The two-seat VF-0D is not a trainer. Empahsis on the "NOT" part. Yes, we know what the cheyenne does, but it wasn't just on the carrier and the specifics of it's ability does not limit it to a carrier role as we see them on beach at the Mayan island, my point was the continuity of these mechs to their successor doesn't fit the timeline. Just cuz you see on a beach doesn't mean much. That's an added bonus to being a bi-pedal mech. The Cheyenne was developed at the same time as its "successors". Of course, they're not successors, they're counterparts by that. Again, different role, different design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWR MKII Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 (edited) it doesnt look like the cheyenne was intended for rough terrain as much as urban warfare with the rollers on its feet. also the twin 30 mm cannons it was armed with didnt look like they were able to punch through the anti UN armor. the weapons seemed more suited to anti aircraft, anti personnell,and anti tank. i dont think they were ecpecting the anti UN forces to have an armored destroid design. the later destroids didnt have big boosters on them but do have vernier thrusters on them for zero G ops. Edited December 12, 2004 by HWR MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Then your point of the cheyenne just limited to a carrier role is flawed. Actually, it was designed for a carrier role. From the compendium...The Destroid Cheyenne is a carrier-borne robot for anti-air interception. Mass produced and deployed aboard the CVN-99 Asuka II in 2008." Also if the cheyene were in the TV series then your statement about its role as a counterpart would be true and successor would fit the bill IMO. But they may still be around by the time the Zentraedi arrive, just not assigned to the Macross. Since they were designed as a part of carrier defences, and we hardly see any carriers at all in the series, there wasn't much opportunity for them to potentially be seen. And we have no idea what sort of numbers "mass produced" implies. Hell, the destroids are not commonly seen in the TV series, and a carrier-borne destroid would be even less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 But they may still be around by the time the Zentraedi arrive, just not assigned to the Macross. Since they were designed as a part of carrier defences, and we hardly see any carriers at all in the series, there wasn't much opportunity for them to potentially be seen. Again, true. The Prometheus was never seen engaged with the Zentradi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 ...If the Cheyenne was less armoured/lighter that the TV versions, then it might have been a jack of all trades and master of none. It would not have been as quick as variable fighters, and it wouldn't be as powerful as the TV destroids. Maybe it was decided that the tank aspects of the destroids needed to be emphasized, since the Valkyries served as quick attack units. That's a good point, actually. The Cheyenne could fill a role that was supplanted by the VF-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Just thinking out loud again, but we see that the Cheyenne acts mainly as a turret on a carrier, complete with a "compartment" where it is usually stationary. Perhaps it was rare for it to actually move about, especially since it wouldn't need to in an anti-aircraft role. This stationary position would negate any of the Cheyenne's quickness, since it seems to be locked in place until released. Again, the TV destroids would be much more suited to this sort of thing, since their slower speed wouldn't be a factor, and their heavier armour and armament a bonus. Just another possibility why the Cheyenne may have been phased out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 And ruin my childhood? How many times must you people ask for a remake? Exactly what I think. What the hell is wrong with you people. Are you like Hollywood ? : Only capable of redoing masterpieces because you are running out of ideas. The Super Dimension Fortress Macross is like the Mona Lisa : A pure masterpiece in its original form. The remastered version of the original Macross coming up next month will be fine for me. Because like every masterpieces, the original Macross do need some restorations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I think I'd pass. Why not just use that energy to create some NEW Macross stories? It's called the ''running out of ideas syndrome''. Hollywood is pretty good at transmitting that syndrome to people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 They should redo it. Even the creators weren't satisfied with it. Just use the same soundtrack, same dialogue tracks, same designs. It'll introduce new viewrs to Macross which would mean more toys! And of course I'll enjoy the fact that your colletictive little girly childhoods have been sodomized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 They should redo it. Even the creators weren't satisfied with it. Just use the same soundtrack, same dialogue tracks, same designs. It'll introduce new viewrs to Macross which would mean more toys! Basically, just redo the animation and leave everything else intact, I like it! But Kawamori would just have to add in nature, mysticism, and acid-tripping scenes to the series. Ok, nevermind, just leave the series as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichterX Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I thought this tread would be forgotten after the announcement of Macross F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I thought this tread would be forgotten after the announcement of Macross F I blame EXO...and the guy posting above him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I blame EXO...and the guy posting above him. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddsun1 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) Apparently, they already have done a remake of Macross with "better animation and CG," and it's called Macross Frontier.... Just youtube'd ep 1, and it didn't exactly blow me away. There were just too many elements--plot devices, etc--that struck me as overly-similar to the original series. Reminds me of the whole Gundam "UC vs. AC" phenomenon; i.e. they've glitzed and glammed it up for a new generation of viewers--but essentially it's still just a re-hash of the original. VF-25 is okay...don't like the Battroid mode though; overall, it looks like the love child born of a drunken romp between a YF-19 and SV-51. The "Super" armor is just bleh; again, reminiscent of all those gaudy, over-the-top Wing/SEED Gundam designs... Edited January 18, 2008 by reddsun1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkid24 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 It shouldn't be remade. Period. Let's get more new series. Besides, Kawamori already said that he was done with the story of Misa and Hikaru so what makes you think that he'd want to go back and tell the exact same story over again?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 meh... everyone says no now... but if they ever did, there wouldnt be a dry pair of shorts in MW. It's like the 1/60 yamatos, sure it's been done before... but it can be done better. Plus all those sequels suck compared to the original. Even Macross Frontier... as much as I like it, storywise, it still doesnt stand up to SDF: Macross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis! Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) Plus all those sequels suck compared to the original. Even Macross Frontier... as much as I like it, storywise, it still doesnt stand up to SDF: Macross. MMMM, this might sound shocking to you, but, it might have something to do with the fact that we've only seen 1 freaking episode so far (and it was a director's cut edition). This is just my opinion but I think it's rather soon to be judging Frontier, like it or not. Edited January 18, 2008 by Aegis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanedaestes Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 MMMM, this might sound shocking to you, but, it might have something to do with the fact that we've only seen 1 freaking episode so far (and it was a director's cut edition). This is just my opinion but I think it's rather soon to be judging Frontier, like it or not. Very good point. I like what I have seen but look at Mac 0, started off great and then went completely left. Let's not get our hopes up on this one episode. I know we are starving for new Mac stuff but that doesnt mean that we should jump on anything. If you are starving and someone gave you a regular saltine cracker you would think it was as good as a Ritz cracker, until you had more and realised that it isn't as good and may actually be a lot worse. Yes I stole that analogy form Eddie Murphy's Raw but it does make a point and does fit the bill here. Besides I really don't like the protagonists hair. I do hope they do something about that. Sure pilots can have wild hair and all but that is more than pushing it, he looks like a chick. I want hard core pilots dammit. Where are my Fockers, Maxs, Isamus, and Gulds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 This one is going to be interesting, SK doesn't so much do cross genre stories like the Alien franchise (horror, action, gore, etc...) did, but more along the lines of cross story genre in terms of cross media. SDFM was a TV series, DYRL was a movie, Mac Plus was a foreign film, Mac 7 was like Manga and Mac Zero is described as fantasy. Only he knows what media he will be emulating with the series... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 No, I see absolutely no need to remake the original series at all. What's with this constant need that some people (and Hollywood) have to constantly remake classics? Let's have some originality guys! Macross Frontier excites me far more than a remake of the original series ever could. Warts and all, the original is a classic that does not need to be remade IMO. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Love for it to be redone. Unlimited funds, and time = purrfectness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanedaestes Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 You people are what's wrong with hollywood. Good day to you all sirs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 MMMM, this might sound shocking to you, but, it might have something to do with the fact that we've only seen 1 freaking episode so far (and it was a director's cut edition). This is just my opinion but I think it's rather soon to be judging Frontier, like it or not. It has less to do with having just seen one freakin episode than it does with having seen 3 previous sequels that didnt do anything for the story. If I'm proven wrong then I'll be glad about it cuz it means I get to watch something thoroughly cool. And as far as originality, you can be original and still end up with something lame. Theres nothing wrong with improving stuff if done right. Everyone is saying how much better the Final Cut version of Blade Runner is. It doesn't stop Ridley Scott from making new movies. A lot of SDF Macross looks like crap. I think the story deserves a lot more than that. It sad to me that the sequels look a lot better with subpar plots. Everyone screaming bloody murder about it is just doing the fanboy dont touch my Original Battlestar Galactica or Star Trek BS... then you guys get all creamy in the middle when it does come out and come out great. Give me a freakin break. Lemmings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 oh and BTW... go check out the transformers movie thread and see how much you guys love "original" pieces of crap. What a waste of time that movie is, but like I said, put it in front of fanboys and watch them gush like little girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) You people are what's wrong with hollywood. Good day to you all sirs! Hollywood smollywood it would be a japanese production, i'd like to say whats the problem with hollywood but i'll get flamed! EXO is right, the story deserves a DYRL? polish. Can't say that is a bad thing. I wouldn't change the sountrack (like original voices), just up the quality of the scenes, add some more dog fighting sequenses and ther u go. Edited January 18, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddsun1 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Yeah! WTF is it with them making male characters so effeminate?! They even call the main character Alto "Princess"?! In relation to another thread: Macross Frontier breaks one of the laws of the Macross Universe! Yes, that's right! They actually kill off a Valkyrie pilot who is flying a fighter that's accented in non-standard colors ["Hikaru red" in fact], and in the first episode no less! But IIRC, he did NOT in fact have wildly spiked and/or colored hair, just some facial paint/markings---that may have been the critical factor, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mriboy Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (insert dude from youtube crying )Just leave SDF alooooone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thankheaven Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 They did remake it......its called DYRL! Except its not on TV, its a movie....that is not on TV, because its a movie. But to answer the question no i rather they leave it alone and rather focus on new shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 >EXO< Thank god you're here, you and I seem to be in exact agreement over how a SDF:M update should be. I say UPDATE because I don't think "remake" is a good word. I also don't think SDF should be redone with DYRL visuals either. As I and EXO and a few other people have said, the "update" would use the exact same old model sheets for the characters and mechs, it would just even out the frame rate, maybe replace a few of the heavily recycled animation sequences. (mind you, the original sequences would remain in the show, just not shown in every other episode) The audio would remain the same, same actors, same "Look" no cg. Thats what I would like to see. Sort of like the EVangelion Collectors thing.. i forget what it's called. It's still the same show, just as if it had a propper budget. And i still content Kawamori doesn't like SDF anymore. maybe the VF-1 is his favorite VF but he's clearly moved away from the grounded-in-reality story style of SDF for more fantastical stuff. If there were a update, i'd want it done by someone who respects and worships the original, not someone who would inject it with 25 years worth of afterthoughts and spiritual/magic garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 btw, i love seeing this topic back, i find the differing views facinateing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 As I and EXO and a few other people have said, the "update" would use the exact same old model sheets for the characters and mechs, it would just even out the frame rate, maybe replace a few of the heavily recycled animation sequences. (mind you, the original sequences would remain in the show, just not shown in every other episode) The audio would remain the same, same actors, same "Look" no cg. What you and EXO describe would be a wet dream come true, but Kawamori would never give it the green light. If Macross Frontier bombs in Japan and Big West decides to move on without Kawamori, then a project like this might have a chance of being produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 What you and EXO describe would be a wet dream come true, but Kawamori would never give it the green light. If Macross Frontier bombs in Japan and Big West decides to move on without Kawamori, then a project like this might have a chance of being produced. OK... I totally agree with that. But the thread asks whether it would work. I dont think it would happen, but I think it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Yeah, I totally agree it would work. I'd love to show this to some of my cousin's and kids in my family, but litterally they have trouble getting passed the bad animation. It's too bad an update will never happen. The normal animation of the characters talking and some of the action is fine, but when its the same stuff over and over, they get bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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