eugimon Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Maybe the reason the Stormtroopers missed alot was because it would of sucked for the movie to be over in the first half hour when all the main charters were killed.Jeez, it's a MOVIE people. maybe, the FORCE affected the stormtroopers, causing them to miss!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Graham Didn't Obiwan comment on the accuracy of the shots on the decimated Jawa transport and said Tusken Raiders couldn't have made such accurate shots in Ep 4? "These last points, too acurate for Sand People... only Imperial Storm Troopers are so percise" Yet, in "The Phantom Menace"(I'm still getting used to the idea of a Star Wars film called The Phantom Menace) we see a Tusken Raider take out a Podracer with a sniper rifle. So the Stormtroopers must be really, REALLY accurate shooters, and just didn't want to show off in Ep.4-6. They did manage to hit 3PO and the Millenium Falcon in ESB and R2, Leia and some Ewoks in ROTJ, so give them a cookie for that! It was a lucky shot, and we don't actually know who he was aiming for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Rather than argue, wouldn't it be easier to just coem to terms with the fact that Lucas DIDN'T have the whole Star Wars saga planned out and obviously is just figuring out the continuity as he goes along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaramu Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 Plus, the stormtroopers were probably ordered NOT to kill them; to let them escape. Remember the homing beacon placed on the Falcon? It's how they found the Yavin system and the rebel base (like you didn't know that already). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 The Stormtrooper are more than effective against nameless and faceless rebels in the Tantive IV, at the beginning of Ep 4. It's just against the main characters that they can't hit poo... and that's because they're protected by The Plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 Some of the late 70s early 80s press material on Storm Troopers explicitly talked about the stormtroopers being clones, as well. In light of the things have actually developed as opposed to how they may have been planned, it seems clear that at least a large part of the initial outlay of stormtroopers were the clone troopers. As mentioned in AOTC and in this thread, the clones based on Jango needed him to be present to continually use them. Once the Empire was in place, recruiting would make sense for numerous socio-political reasons, and as the real life Nazi stormtroopers show, it's not incredible to belive people could or would take that path for themeselves. As far as the movie-canon Nazi's, Lucas has set up a large establishement to ensure that the EU is internally consistent and that the movies mate up with the EU (or at least don't outright contradict it). Except in matters of minutae, they've been remarkably successful, especially if one considers the pure volume of material out there. While Lucas reserves the rights to contradict the EU... he hasn't done so yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinnai Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Finally, finished shots of Grevious. Well.. as finished as they get right now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinnai Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 And another.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Some of the late 70s early 80s press material on Storm Troopers explicitly talked about the stormtroopers being clones, as well. In light of the things have actually developed as opposed to how they may have been planned, it seems clear that at least a large part of the initial outlay of stormtroopers were the clone troopers. As mentioned in AOTC and in this thread, the clones based on Jango needed him to be present to continually use them. Once the Empire was in place, recruiting would make sense for numerous socio-political reasons, and as the real life Nazi stormtroopers show, it's not incredible to belive people could or would take that path for themeselves. As far as the movie-canon Nazi's, Lucas has set up a large establishement to ensure that the EU is internally consistent and that the movies mate up with the EU (or at least don't outright contradict it). Except in matters of minutae, they've been remarkably successful, especially if one considers the pure volume of material out there. While Lucas reserves the rights to contradict the EU... he hasn't done so yet. Uh... he has as there is EU source that says that Owen Lars is Obiwan's brother... It was on the old Star Wars CCG card in the West End RPG and I belive in one of the books. Plus what about the "kiddie" books like The Glove of Darth Vader and Zorba's Revenge? those deffinitly argue with things.... and they are all EU sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriku Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 So does Grevious have 2 or 4 arms? Those pics show him with 2, but the action figure has 4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Samurai Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Four. I believe his two arms split into two apiece...that's why he has a thumb on each side of the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I like Grievous. He was badass in Clone Wars. I can't wait to see him in Ep III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxman Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 A link to the fanfilm mentioned by Lord Breetai a few posts ago: Recruitment Atomfilms has a lot more funny star wars fanfilms, just do a search on their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 As far as the movie-canon Nazi's, Lucas has set up a large establishement to ensure that the EU is internally consistent and that the movies mate up with the EU (or at least don't outright contradict it). Except in matters of minutae, they've been remarkably successful, especially if one considers the pure volume of material out there. While Lucas reserves the rights to contradict the EU... he hasn't done so yet. Nope, Lucas has contradicted the EU stuff pretty consistently. just so quick stuff... EU. clones affect jedi because they are abberations in the force (from timothy zahn). canon. No such thing happens nor is mentioned in episode 2. EU. Padme escapes death and is hiding out with non jedi force sensitive women, padme herself being a member of one of these force adepts. Canon. Queen/senator padme was not force sensitive and is pretty much confirmed as murdered by anakin. EU. In the Clone wars, the Jedi fought against the clones. Canon, The jedi fight with the clones. Much of the stuff that the EU brings up to flesh out the past, has been ignored or retconned by lucas, since most of the EU deals with the future,after ROTJ, it's rather safe to say lucas hasn't contradicted that stuff, but that's only because he isn't there himself chronologically in terms of the story. Just wait till he starts with the star wars TV or future CGI movie, I'm sure some more contradictions will pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Samurai Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 (edited) One thing I don't like about Grievious, which is the same issue I have with a lot of the prequel stuff, is that he exemplifies the fact that Lucas has fallen to the beliefs that flashier is better and the more you can have of something, the more kick-ass it is. Your Jedi are pathetic fighters unless they have some special lightsaber and/or can leap and flip around with reckless abandoned. Now...watch out! Here comes the best fighter around! Dual-wielding is old...this guy can DOUBLE dual-wield! Plus he can not only leap around, but crawl on walls and ceilings! It just feels childish. One didn't fear Vader because he could suddenly pull out a half dozen lightsabers or because he was into worthless displays of acrobatics. You feared him out of his presence and the fact that he never really gave away everything he could possibly do to you. Yoda was a great Jedi despite the fact that he got winded climbing up onto tree stumps. Even as a kid I could understand that, and appreciate it as an adult. Edited December 27, 2004 by Southpaw Samurai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Grevious can dual or even quad (?) wield sabers for one simple reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 One thing I don't like about Grievious, which is the same issue I have with a lot of the prequel stuff, is that he exemplifies the fact that Lucas has fallen to the beliefs that flashier is better and the more you can have of something, the more kick-ass it is. Your Jedi are pathetic fighters unless they have some special lightsaber and/or can leap and flip around with reckless abandoned. Now...watch out! Here comes the best fighter around! Dual-wielding is old...this guy can DOUBLE dual-wield! Plus he can not only leap around, but crawl on walls and ceilings! It just feels childish. One didn't fear Vader because he could suddenly pull out a half dozen lightsabers or because he was into worthless displays of acrobatics. You feared him out of his presence and the fact that he never really gave away everything he could possibly do to you. Yoda was a great Jedi despite the fact that he got winded climbing up onto tree stumps. Even as a kid I could understand that, and appreciate it as an adult. yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarensaas Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Finally, finished shots of Grevious.Well.. as finished as they get right now.. Oh, SURE, we can have naked shots of General Grievious on here, but when we show Queen Amidala naked there's a big uproar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Pff... I don't want to go to a movie so I can think about what the bad guy could do. That's just lame. I want to see the bad guy doing awesome stuff. Vader did do awesome stuff for the time. This is a SE film, just like the originals. I wanna see crazy action. PLUS they're fighting a DROID army... and the droids thus far have much trouble dealing with Jedi? The solution? A droid that has a better chance against a jedi.... not being force sensitive a wall of lightsaber blades seems to be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Grevious can dual or even quad (?) wield sabers for one simple reason. That guy may give him some trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Uh... he has as there is EU source that says that Owen Lars is Obiwan's brother... Like I said minutae. To continue the debate would involve quoting the EU source in context... and assuming there's no debate about authenticity, or the infamous "point of view." EU. clones affect jedi because they are abberations in the force (from timothy zahn). canon. No such thing happens nor is mentioned in episode 2. Cloned by an entirely different method. If you've read the books, you'd have read there was a reason for the unusual effects of Thrawn's clones as well as other clones done by that method (with Spaarti cylinders, for the record), over a period of days and weeks as opposed to the method used by the Kamino, which took 10 years. An apples and meatloaf comparison. EU. Padme escapes death and is hiding out with non jedi force sensitive women, padme herself being a member of one of these force adepts. Canon. Queen/senator padme was not force sensitive and is pretty much confirmed as murdered by anakin. Source? Context? Point of View. You may be right... but I'm not aware of the reference... nor am I aware that it's been conclusively demonstrated that Pade is NOT Force Sensitive. Certainly not in the movies... nor the screenplays... nor in the novelizations of the movies... nor in the EU. EU. In the Clone wars, the Jedi fought against the clones. Canon, The jedi fight with the clones. Sources? I'm aware of nothing that says either. There are implications in the Zahn trilogy... but they are really vague and don't specify who was fighting who... Wait till Episode III... according to the spoilers we're all going to see some Clone versus Jedi that goes decidedly against the Jedi (thanks to the perfidious Sidious and his ooga-booga Sith timing). The fact of the matter is that none of you canon-Nazi's can point out an outright contradiction of anything other than minutae. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinnai Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Grevious can dual or even quad (?) wield sabers for one simple reason. That guy may give him some trouble... Hokey religions and cheap tricks are no match for a good Blaster by your side.. And anyone (like Bsu) who is uptodate with spoiler info, will know what I mean. I don't think Grevious has to worry about Jedi using lightsabers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 One thing I don't like about Grievious, which is the same issue I have with a lot of the prequel stuff, is that he exemplifies the fact that Lucas has fallen to the beliefs that flashier is better and the more you can have of something, the more kick-ass it is. Your Jedi are pathetic fighters unless they have some special lightsaber and/or can leap and flip around with reckless abandoned. Now...watch out! Here comes the best fighter around! Dual-wielding is old...this guy can DOUBLE dual-wield! Plus he can not only leap around, but crawl on walls and ceilings! It just feels childish. Part of this is due to having a different concept art director. Doug Chiang, concept art director of the Prequels, has a decidedly different take on art from Ralph McQuarrie, the original concept artist for the OT. McQuarrie's stuff tends to be more realistic, gritty, subdued when necessary... partly because he's worked at Nasa and designs things as how functional mechanical items should look, even in a fanciful galaxy, far, far away. There are actually elements of McQuarrie's designs that Chiang's mentioned not being fond of (not sure exactly which, and to what extent), but it does explain the deviation of the newer style towards flashy, eye-catching, and a little bit campy. Lucas just merely gives vague ideas and nods when he sees a design he likes, but it's up to the concept designer to give him good ideas to choose from, or perhaps even shield him from some bad visual designs that he might end up choosing. -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 The books do not mention the spaarti chambers because lucas didn't have the kamino stuff out yet. an example of lucas not caring. the padme stuff came from a book where leia is searching for her mom in a sidestory.. I forget which book. anyways, at the end, the force women tell leia that she can eventually go to her mom, but not luke. And yes, it is not explicitly stated that padme was a force sensitive, but if it were the case, lucas would have brought it up. The fact of the matter is, lucas himself has stated that he views the EU as seperate. "I don't even read the offshoot books that come out based on Star Wars" -GL " In general, George does not take the EU into account when he's making his movies. [...] It's our job to manipulate the EU into fitting George's future movies, which often contradict stuff we've done." - Rostoni Oh, sure. They're done outside my little universe. "Star Wars" has had a lot of different lives that have been worked on by a lot of different people. It works without me." -GL There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe.”" -GL All quotes taken from: http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWCanon2.html So frankly, it is absolutely ridiculous to state that those of us that hold the movies as canon, seperate from the EU, and stating that EU stuff shouldn't be slotted into the movies when not expressly done by lucas as being "Nazis." In fact, to hold that view is directly antithetical to the expressed views of george lucas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarensaas Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Part of this is due to having a different concept art director. Doug Chiang, concept art director of the Prequels, has a decidedly different take on art from Ralph McQuarrie, the original concept artist for the OT. McQuarrie's stuff tends to be more realistic, gritty, subdued when necessary... partly because he's worked at Nasa and designs things as how functional mechanical items should look, even in a fanciful galaxy, far, far away. There are actually elements of McQuarrie's designs that Chiang's mentioned not being fond of (not sure exactly which, and to what extent), but it does explain the deviation of the newer style towards flashy, eye-catching, and a little bit campy. Lucas just merely gives vague ideas and nods when he sees a design he likes, but it's up to the concept designer to give him good ideas to choose from, or perhaps even shield him from some bad visual designs that he might end up choosing. -Al I think if Chiang was left on his own for Ep 1 and 2 things would have looked different than they turned out. Lucas pushed for the smooth, clean look for the prequels to contrast the OT, and because he had to show things before they went to hell; more "civilized and elegant" times, with all the Jedi Knight glory days. Doug was following a theme George dictated with the story, but not necessarily a theme Doug would have done with free control. I'm still kinda cloudy on exactly why he left suddenly...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 BTW, Chiang is no longer with ILM. He left shortly after Clones to work on his "Robota" project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 The Spaarti cylinders ARE mentioned in the progress of the Clone Wars. It's just not the method used by Kamino (and thus that adopted by the Republic). Check out the Clone Wars timeline on the official site. Unless we hear some explicit dialogue in Return of the Sith to the contrary, Padme's sensitivity to the Force is not likely to be brought up, as it's irrelevent. Even if she was, she wouldn't be trained... and she wouldn't choose that lifestyle even if she could (which she can't), anyways. So far what you're saying about that book (even without knowing if you're distorting what it supposedly says or not) hasn't been invalidated yet... and there's no reason to think it will be. Lucas and LFL's stance on canon is well known. Movies are at the top followed by screenplays, radio dramas, novelizations of the movies, etc etc. Outright contradiction has yet to be established on anything substantive on anything except the most particular of details, which often themselves ignore the infamous "certain point of view" (which would be my view on the "veracity" of the EU in regard to the various levels of "canon"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 I think if Chiang was left on his own for Ep 1 and 2 things would have looked different than they turned out. Lucas pushed for the smooth, clean look for the prequels to contrast the OT, and because he had to show things before they went to hell; more "civilized and elegant" times, with all the Jedi Knight glory days. Doug was following a theme George dictated with the story, but not necessarily a theme Doug would have done with free control. I'm still kinda cloudy on exactly why he left suddenly...? Chiang left? Had no idea. Lucas may have pushed for smoother and more refined, but I do wonder if things would have looked different if he was given refined designs that were more McQuarrie-esque to choose from. Ah well... there are still a few designs that I like from the PT, like most of the Trade Federation droid and ship designs. But I absolutely despise the Super Battle Droid and most of the new stuff in AOTC. =P Not sure who exactly to blame these for. -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Valkyrie Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 More SW-E3 Lego goodies (SPOILER) : http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=h.../im/0004994.jpg http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=h...s_2005_7257.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeo-mare Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 looks like Obiwan chases Grevious on some sort of lizard, i wonder how that is going to look in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 looks like Obiwan chases Grevious on some sort of lizard, i wonder how that is going to look in the film. Man.... I've been waiting for like 6 years for this damn movie and its soooo close I can taste it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryHolmes Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 looks like Obiwan chases Grevious on some sort of lizard, i wonder how that is going to look in the film. Man.... I've been waiting for like 6 years for this damn movie and its soooo close I can taste it! But not quite close enough to see it... yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 BTW, Chiang is no longer with ILM. He left shortly after Clones to work on his "Robota" project. On one of the SW documentaries (maybe on the ep 1 DVD), I seem to recall Chiang making a comment that he didn't like the designs of the ships in the original trilogy. If I'm recalling correctly, somebody who doesn't like the classic designs should never have been allowed to work on the prequel trilogy . Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 (edited) On one of the SW documentaries (maybe on the ep 1 DVD), I seem to recall Chiang making a comment that he didn't like the designs of the ships in the original trilogy.If I'm recalling correctly, somebody who doesn't like the classic designs should never have been allowed to work on the prequel trilogy . Graham Yeah, that's just mind boggling. The ships from the OT are iconic, and have a something to them that's kept them compelling and recognizable after all these years. If they don't agree with his sense of aesthetics, he might not have been the best person for the job, regardless of how long he'd been working at ILM. At any rate, a chromed SR-71 and then a chromed B-2 aren't exactly my ideas of great, compelling, and... well, Star Warsy designs. Heck, they're not even variable! -Al Edited December 30, 2004 by Sundown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Sorry if these have been posted already... Jedi Posse Yoda get's pwned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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