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Shaorin

"Rob Liefield" and the 1990's...

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as a guy who spent his teens in the 90's, going through a U.S. Comics phase, i happened to have found this positively HILARIOUS;

http://www.progressi...robliefeld.html

feel free to share thoughts...

Edited by Shaorin
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Unfortunately, Liefield hasn't changed...

cap_breasts.jpg

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jawa-kebob.

ROFLMAO

Knew the guy was terrible 2 decades ago. Nothing's really changed.

... it's no wonder why I stopped reading superhero comics way back when...

Edited by sketchley
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OMG, not a comic guy, but this is the worst artist ever. Guy doesn't understand the male or female physique. He needs to take an anatomy class. Muscle and bone structure that does not exist on any human. The guy loves drawing muscles, but has no idea where they are supposed to go.

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Unfortunately, Liefield hasn't changed...

cap_breasts.jpg

I call it of "Capitão América Peito de Pombo" (Pigeon's chest).
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yeah, i was a BIG SPIDER MAN head back in the mid 90's, though my nascent Anime Fandom was already beginning to creep in.

IIRC, the only LIEFIELD drawn comic book i had had in my collection was an issue of YOUNGBLOOD.

i got a TON of misc. from these $5/$10 20 and 50 pack comic assortments that TOYS R' US was stocking in the mid/late 90's there.

i built up a tidy collection of mostly crap, and, around a year ago, i hauled it in to my local comic shop-

("INFINITE FRONTIERS" Kennewick, Wash.)

-and got $80 in store credit for the lot. a good deal, to me, as that collection was, in my eye, one of the foolish

mistakes of my adolescence, that sat around taking up space and reminding me of a lesser period of my life...

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Great... I just had to read it all but I couldn't not look at the pictures and now my eyes are bleeding. MY EYES!!! THAT'S NOT GOOD!!!

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Well like him or not as an artist he gave me Cable and Deadpool, my favorite two comic book characters ever.

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I was thinking about why is art is so bad... and aside from the ones mentioned in the link (lack of forethought, adding things after the fact, inability to do research on things like anatonmy, dislike of feet, etc., he's too focused on the individual parts, despite the overall composition.

Let's take the captain america picture appearing in this thread: back: ok. head: ok. chest: ok. Altogether? Unbalanced disproportions.

Now, I'd like to say why he's so crappy-yet-successful is because he meets deadlines. But apparently he can't even do that! THAT is the most shocking.

How does he remain employed? Is there a dearth of competent artist in the industry? Are comic readers more interested in muscles, pouches, and individual parts, but ignore the total composition? Or don't care?

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I don't think I'd disparage Michael Bay that way. Whatever we may feel about the content of his movies, Bay is at least a compentent movie maker from a technical perspective. Liefield fails consistently in all aspects, technical and artistic. Maybe he's the Uwe Boll of comics... convinced he's skilled and therefore why should he try to get any better?

I'd like to say how he keeps getting work is beyond me, but I've just known too many people with no identifiable taste. I have no doubt there's some group out there that thinks X-Men comics peaked with his initial X-Force run, or that Youngblood was the best thing Image ever published.

At least Lee and Silvestri improved in their craft. Their initial Image titles were flimsy splash-page fodder too, but they were competent artists and they worked on their storytelling over time. Liefield has never gotten any better in 20 years. I took one look inside his Hawk and Dove for DC's "New 52", shuddered and then marvelled that they would bother to let him lead another book.

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I've seen that post before and it's still one of the funniest things I've ever read related to comics. Liefeld continues to get work to this day and is going to write/draw/crap upon three DC comics this year. He's always been a hack artist, but can throw down an exciting visial story despite the obvious lack of feet (women with bent spines, ridiculous costumes/weaponry, giant boobs on guys, etc).

It truly boggles the mind.

At least Lee and Silvestri improved in their craft. Their initial Image titles were flimsy splash-page fodder too, but they were competent artists and they worked on their storytelling over time. Liefield has never gotten any better in 20 years. I took one look inside his Hawk and Dove for DC's "New 52", shuddered and then marvelled that they would bother to let him lead another book.

I have to disagree about Jim Lee - he was awesome back in the '90s, but his style suffered once he became a higher up at DC. His art is simplified and just doesn't have the same raw energy to it. Silvestri is still pretty good (raw energy) although he's a big studio head too.

The only thing I can say about comics these days is - hope you like them digital. Does that mean old pamphlet comics will increase in value since they aren't printing new ones anymore? Hope so.

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Can't have a Liefeld topic without this:

:p

EDIT: There's a part 3 as well, only 2 embedded links per post though :(

Part 3:

Edited by Bowen
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Can't have a Liefeld topic without this:

I thought you where going to bring this up:

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I disagree about Lee and Silvestri. Lee is still at the top of his game, while SIlvestri is sketchy at best. Silvestri can't keep up with the demands of a monthly title. Take a look at his current work on the incredible Hulk. Every issue he as pencilled in the series has progressively gotten worse.

Liefeld probably knows how to play the corporate game, so that keeps him employed.

The 90's were the dark times for american comics, but I think DC is currently putting out some of their best work in years.

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The 90's were the dark times for american comics,

I don't think they were. Some good stuff, some bad stuff...but I don't see the whole resurgence of comics as dark.

The 90's introduced some of the best comic artists ever seen up to that point...and, unfortunately, all of their clones. Those years gave me the perspective to appreciate how good some of the more seasoned pencillers were. Romita & son, Arthur Adams, John Byrne, and even Dale Keown stood out despite how over-saturated the field was with would-be indie comic company founders. That said, I loved a lot of the new talent as well.

Another element of comics pushed to the forefront at that time were colorists...of the digital variety, more specifically. Suddenly, newsprint was no longer good enough for displaying comics properly. Many lead titles shifted to magazine slick and their prices shifted up to ridonculous levels. This was when I lost interest in comics. Nothing against the colorists, though. Comic book artwork had never looked so pretty. But just the same, I felt comics had lost something. Not sure what. Soul? Accessibility? Simplicity? Frack, I'm old.

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The '90s had it's moments. For every Youngblood, there was WildCATS. For every Clone Saga, there was Age of Apocalypse. Like RD Blade said, there was a big push to improve the art. Pencillers were suddenly at the forefront, and digital coloring really brought the art to life. Things got a little over-the-top, but that was the '90s, right? Comics then, like comics in previous decades, are a product of their time. You kind of love them for what they are.

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It's amazing that Stan could say everything that he said with a straight face!

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The comic industry was nearly ruined in the 90's due to the speculation from wall street. Many people got into the hobby for a short period because they thought they could earn a quick buck. The publishers responded in kind by overproducing titles.

The 90's also brought us all of the bad gimmicks. Poly bagged, foil embossed covers, with Holograms. Not to mention the overuse of the mult ititle crossovers. The regular titles merely became the launching pad for the next meaningless crossover.

I started collecting comics in the late 80's and still do to this day. If you ask any hardcore collectors their opinions on the industry during the 90's, they'll echo similar sentiments.

Looking back most of the Image titles that some of you regularly cite were complete garbage. The Artist that formed the company had no real chops for storytelling or development. Most of it creators are back working for the big 2. I applauded their efforts for more creator control, but they weren't the right cast to champion it. They let way too many people tell them how great and deserving they were.

I think the art today is the best that it's been in a long time. There seeems to be more great artist, and not so many of them are trying the replicate the Image style. There is more diversity in style and storytelling from the various pencilers.

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I actually took a figure drawing class with Marshall Vandruff who is an excellent anatomy teacher and once had Liefield as a student way back. He mentioned that Liefield didn't seem very focused on doing the work he needed to up his game at drawing anatomy-- then went off to make a bajillion dollars.

Anyway I have to agree that while Jim Lee is sill very competent, his stuff just doesn't look as good as his X-Men days. His style was perfect in adding tone and depth to the drab 4 color newsprint of the era. His proportions were more dynamic and accurate too. His recent stuff just doesn't have the same impact and life--and everyone still looks like they came out of the 90's with cargo pants and a million pockets.

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Sundown, good to see you again!

That gallery of Rob Liefeld art was absolute gold. It's good to know that Liefeld is still around for a good laugh. But I honestly can't begrudge the man. If someone was dumb enough to pay me big bucks to draw super heroes with elephant legs and fairy feet, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

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Liefeld probably knows how to play the corporate game, so that keeps him employed.

From what I've heard, he's very good about being on time, which is why the editors like him and keep using him.

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Someone must keep buying his books too. Wouldn't matter how on time he was if no one bought anything he did. The guy's got some fans somewhere.

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Someone must keep buying his books too. Wouldn't matter how on time he was if no one bought anything he did. The guy's got some fans somewhere.

probably the same wannabe macho beefcakes that think the STREET FIGHTER IV chara redesigns are totally hella-awesome... <_<

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Liefield is awful, i avoided his comics in the 90's and still do today. I like Lee (even his early work) and the only widely known criticism of Lee's work is his inability to draw feet. Silvestri wasn't terrible and he did get better over time, but i preferred the late Michael Turner's work to Silvestri's. Turner's work didn't have a ton of diversity but he at least understood perspective and anatomy (even if the anatomy was always super model perfect or body builder perfect).

Edited by emajnthis
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I actually liked Rob's stuff when I was 15 or so, because I thought that Cable&Shatterstarr were so badass. Now when I go back and look at his artwork, I'm just genuinely not impressed, especially after I heard that he plagarized from other pieces, such as the Roadblock from GI Joe turning into Cable in the same exact pose.

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Not sure who this Rob guy is, but the 90's were great ... really miss those days :(

It had unrivaled anime (with 100% more mecha!): NG Evangelion, Macross+, Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, ok and to a lesser extent Macross 7 :p .

Gaming takes an epic leap forward: Half Life / CounterStrike (this came out in 2000 but whatever, close enough), Warcraft II, Starcraft ... and consoles move to the next phase as well: PSX, Saturn / Dreamcast. Killer apps like FF7, Xenogears, and the original Resident Evil still feel awesome today.

The internet was made available to the masses: You've got mail! Oh... the excitement when the modem finished its series of beep/boop song.

Life was good... I was in high school (graduated in 1999), no real worries, once I took the SAT's got my acceptance into my school of choice I pretty much just goofed off for a few months. The spring & summer of 1999 was incredible - senioritis had taken hold, spent my time shooting hoops, playing games, and looking forward to college!

Oh how I wish time could be turned :( ...

Edited by Ghost Train
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