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7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, proficiency in Japanese is a bit of a bear... I've seen estimates that it takes something along the lines of 2,500 hours of practice to achieve basic proficiency.

Add that to the fact that I am being something of a lazy person in studying any of it, lol.

 

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Have you tried the guide posted here on MacrossWorld?  My buddy @Jack Verse got through all of the Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy game using that and he doesn't speak a lick of Japanese.

Most of the missions amount to "fly to the location marked on your HUD/map" followed by either "and explore the location" or "defeat all enemies there", though there usually isn't any difference between those two options.  The Hunters Guild quests are somewhat more frustrating since they usually fall into one of three basic categories:

  • Fly to location X and trigger an event by getting close to a big floating icon and hitting O, then kill all the things.
  • Obtain X many Y goods and deliver them to any Guild location (usually just spawned pickups on the worldmap, sometimes special items that show up as different-colored item pickups on the worldmap).
  • Deliver X goods to Y location (same as the above, except the item is basically handed to you and you have to fly it to a specific guild location.)

The Vanquish Races are the ones I found most frustrating, but that was just because I don't seem to be very good at them.  To this day, I've never managed to beat the ones that provide the FAST pack sets for the YF-19 and YF-21.

Oh I have looked at a few, including one that in general explained stuff, though it wasn't quite as comprehensive as I'd have liked, plus all the menu translations were elsewhere and going back and forth even in tabs was a hassle just to get through anything with a menu (like a store in game or whatever for example). Maybe there is a better one I didn't see, or maybe I'm just a bit helpless, lol. The end point was it was becoming more of a hassle or chore than it was being fun to play.. which is nuts cause it offers the chance to play with all the VFs and I want that more than anything. I still bought it so I should find the time to get through it eventually though somehow. It probably doesn't help that I was having so much trouble I wasn't able to advance any farther than having a VF-0S (I got Roy's version though) and naturally that's like your pitiful free sample of deliciousness, lol. To quote Sasaki, it's better than a Destroid at least, lol.

(Btw.. I notice more and more people are writing his name as Reon instead of the more obvious Leon. Now I'm no stranger to the R/L thing in Japanese... but why the switch lately?)

 

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There are fan translations of some of them.  I know Macross 7 Trash got a full fan translation, even if the scan quality is iffy and the romanizations inconsistent.  @Talos wanted to work with me on a full translation of Macross the First, but that project never got off the ground because of our mutual work obligations.

I know partial translations have been done for Macross Delta: the White Knight of the Black Wing.

Certainly worth looking into, I know that can't be shared here of course. I'll have to go on a hunt sometime. I'd especially like to be able to read any of Black Wing since as you've said it actually puts some color into the otherwise pointless Aerial Knights of Windermere. I barely even know the basic story of Trash beyond that it involves some future sporting event?

A translation of First would be awesome, but as I understand it takes forever to release new chapters as it is so hard to see that being any easier.

Fan translations of anything are the only hope of course. That's one think I like about some other properties. Full Metal Panic for instance only had the first few novels get officially translated but some fans later did do a rather bang up job releasing translations of the remaining series. I haven't read them all but I checked samples from each and it looks pretty well done. Dedication like that to some of the novels as well as manga for Macross would be amazing even if it would be very tough work. I especially would like to read Macross the Ride (I think I'm thinking of the right one, I get that and Macross R confused... there are a lot of these side stories I'm not entirely familiar with after all).

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2 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Add that to the fact that I am being something of a lazy person in studying any of it, lol.

Daily practice is the key, especially when it comes to memorizing hiragana and katakana characters.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Oh I have looked at a few, including one that in general explained stuff, though it wasn't quite as comprehensive as I'd have liked, plus all the menu translations were elsewhere and going back and forth even in tabs was a hassle just to get through anything with a menu (like a store in game or whatever for example). Maybe there is a better one I didn't see, or maybe I'm just a bit helpless, lol. The end point was it was becoming more of a hassle or chore than it was being fun to play.. which is nuts cause it offers the chance to play with all the VFs and I want that more than anything. I still bought it so I should find the time to get through it eventually though somehow. It probably doesn't help that I was having so much trouble I wasn't able to advance any farther than having a VF-0S (I got Roy's version though) and naturally that's like your pitiful free sample of deliciousness, lol. To quote Sasaki, it's better than a Destroid at least, lol.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r3Sy1LnkpxSGJxOUR4VFVac0k/view?ths=true

This is the really good one that my friend used.  It's not the most intuitive guide in the world, but it's hands-down better than any other I've seen.  For most, the biggest issue I've seen complaints about is the way the game uses a Japanese button layout, making X cancel and O accept, where the opposite is true for western games.  Once you get used to the menus, you'll hardly need the guide except for the "10 bear asses" type fetch quests.

Yeah, you didn't get very far then... that's like, the end of chapter 2.  'course for the longest time it feels like the only VFs available are the Sv-51, VF-0, and VF-1.  It's not till much later that you finally get a VF-11B.  The character model VFs you can unlock have slightly better stats than the regular ones, but nowhere near as good as the stats of the ones the NPC allies get that you can't fly until New Game+.  (Probably for the best, since in New Game+ you can field multiples of any craft you have, and Alto Saotome's VF-25F was kinda the Disc One Nuke if not for the fact that the ally AI isn't the sharpest.)

 

 

2 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

(Btw.. I notice more and more people are writing his name as Reon instead of the more obvious Leon. Now I'm no stranger to the R/L thing in Japanese... but why the switch lately?)

It was pointed out a while back that "Reon" is how it's spelled, in English, in the official guidebook to the game.

Many of us are nothing if not sticklers for the official line.

 

2 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Certainly worth looking into, I know that can't be shared here of course. I'll have to go on a hunt sometime. I'd especially like to be able to read any of Black Wing since as you've said it actually puts some color into the otherwise pointless Aerial Knights of Windermere. I barely even know the basic story of Trash beyond that it involves some future sporting event?

Personally, I'd recommend giving a try to a Windows Store app called MangaBlaze.  Search a couple of the usual suspects through that app and you should be able to read several fan translations of Macross manga titles.

Macross 7 Trash is a sidestory to the Macross 7 series, concerned mainly with an extreme sport called Tornado Crush, which I can only describe as being to speed skating what the Australian rugby league is to American football... a version that's more mixed martial arts competition than the actual game.  The main plot concerns a leading athlete in the game being manipulated by a retired ace pilot to help put a stop to a rogue Colonel's plan to weaponize Zentradi civilians as supersoldiers using a technology his mother developed.

 

2 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

Fan translations of anything are the only hope of course. That's one think I like about some other properties. Full Metal Panic for instance only had the first few novels get officially translated but some fans later did do a rather bang up job releasing translations of the remaining series. I haven't read them all but I checked samples from each and it looks pretty well done. Dedication like that to some of the novels as well as manga for Macross would be amazing even if it would be very tough work. I especially would like to read Macross the Ride (I think I'm thinking of the right one, I get that and Macross R confused... there are a lot of these side stories I'm not entirely familiar with after all).

Macross R is the shortform title of Macross the Ride, same as Macross Frontier gets abbreviated Macross F.  

That's a relatively short one (just two volumes), but I don't think anyone is tackling it at the moment.  The most prolific translator of novels is @Gubaba, the translations of which he posts on his blog.  My proficiency level is only recently developed to the point where I'm willing to tackle whole books, but I'm starting with the old Sky Angels book instead, as that's been out of print for so bloody long that NOBODY is going to piss and moan if I make a full translation available.  Still, I expect that'll take months to finish.

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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Daily practice is the key, especially when it comes to memorizing hiragana and katakana characters.

And take time away from my busy schedule of online Star Trek roleplay, general TV & Anime watching and now losing hours to Breath of the Wild? Lol... I don't have enough hours in my days...

 

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r3Sy1LnkpxSGJxOUR4VFVac0k/view?ths=true

This is the really good one that my friend used.  It's not the most intuitive guide in the world, but it's hands-down better than any other I've seen.  For most, the biggest issue I've seen complaints about is the way the game uses a Japanese button layout, making X cancel and O accept, where the opposite is true for western games.  Once you get used to the menus, you'll hardly need the guide except for the "10 bear asses" type fetch quests.

Yeah, you didn't get very far then... that's like, the end of chapter 2.  'course for the longest time it feels like the only VFs available are the Sv-51, VF-0, and VF-1.  It's not till much later that you finally get a VF-11B.  The character model VFs you can unlock have slightly better stats than the regular ones, but nowhere near as good as the stats of the ones the NPC allies get that you can't fly until New Game+.  (Probably for the best, since in New Game+ you can field multiples of any craft you have, and Alto Saotome's VF-25F was kinda the Disc One Nuke if not for the fact that the ally AI isn't the sharpest.)

This does look like one I tried out but I had trouble I think equating some of it to action. I think the one I looked at was an unfinished version though, so this might be better. It's been a bit honestly since I tried though. A part of me would like a visual translation for menus. I thought I found something like that once but can't seem to find it again. Finding something of that nature would go a loooong way to solving my biggest issues in the game.

I find that a bit saddening you are stuck in the entry level VFs so long. I mean they're great and all.. but part of me wants to get to fun stuff.. but like you said, disc one nukes are best left for replays, heh. I think the only reason I'd want to just get on with it is because without being able to enjoy the story (due to language barrier as previously stated) the game loses a lot of the charm that would normally quell my annoyance with that advancement. I'm sure normally.. it really isn't that bad.

 

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It was pointed out a while back that "Reon" is how it's spelled, in English, in the official guidebook to the game.

Many of us are nothing if not sticklers for the official line.

Sure, why not, lol. Technically that is accurate. Still I've seen English wording within the Macross series that was clearly a translation mishap (Mission Clitical comes to mind...). That being said, it is the whole 'Spell my name with an S' thing. If we question this we have to question Ranka over Lanka (I remember early on that was unclear, and since the name is more unique than Reon/Leon it can go either way) and Roid over Loid. Those two besides clearly being shown to be the R versions as correct though just work better that way obviously.

Still, I won't argue, Reon is certainly not the strangest name in Macross.

 

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Personally, I'd recommend giving a try to a Windows Store app called MangaBlaze.  Search a couple of the usual suspects through that app and you should be able to read several fan translations of Macross manga titles.

Macross 7 Trash is a sidestory to the Macross 7 series, concerned mainly with an extreme sport called Tornado Crush, which I can only describe as being to speed skating what the Australian rugby league is to American football... a version that's more mixed martial arts competition than the actual game.  The main plot concerns a leading athlete in the game being manipulated by a retired ace pilot to help put a stop to a rogue Colonel's plan to weaponize Zentradi civilians as supersoldiers using a technology his mother developed.

 

Macross R is the shortform title of Macross the Ride, same as Macross Frontier gets abbreviated Macross F.  

That's a relatively short one (just two volumes), but I don't think anyone is tackling it at the moment.  The most prolific translator of novels is @Gubaba, the translations of which he posts on his blog.  My proficiency level is only recently developed to the point where I'm willing to tackle whole books, but I'm starting with the old Sky Angels book instead, as that's been out of print for so bloody long that NOBODY is going to piss and moan if I make a full translation available.  Still, I expect that'll take months to finish.

I'll give that a look, thanks for the tip.

That sounds about as on par for a Macross story as anything else, lol.

Ah, so those are the same thing.... as you were then, heh...

Right, Gubaba, I remember him from here. I heard he was removed from here some time ago, but I won't ask why. Surely not the time nor place for that. I've seen his blog once or twice. I'll give that a look through again when I feel up to such things.

Edited by Master Dex

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22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

 

Really, you could sum it up by saying that Macross VF-X2 is more or less Macross's own riff on Zeta Gundam... Latence are the Titans, the anti-colonist suppression group who become increasingly evil and brutal as time goes on, while Vindirance is the AEUG, the secret paramilitary group created and supported by the military to semi-clandestinely oppose the brutal actions of the suppression unit.

Yeah it is pretty much like that as it is two factions within the same military and government. While the Second Unification War was won on a decisive battle over Earth there are still Lactence remnants such as Fasces and those on planet Cashew that is in civil war with local NUNS.

While rebellions or insurrections aren't something new as seen with Dancing Skulls and Isamu's career civil war adds a new element. In Macross Delta's episode on the origin of Walkure we learn that Kaname's home colony Divide is in civil war. Why we don't know but it could very well be like the case of Cashew where old UN Forces and New UN Forces are fighting each other.

 

Edited by RedWolf
adding detail

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33 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

In Macross Delta's episode on the origin of Walkure we learn that Kaname's home colony Divide is in civil war.

Divide's been like that for so long it's practically Space Ireland.

 

33 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

Why we don't know but it could very well be like the case of Cashew where old UN Forces and New UN Forces are fighting each other.

That's basically just Latence vs. the New UN Forces... 

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12 hours ago, Master Dex said:

And take time away from my busy schedule of online Star Trek roleplay, general TV & Anime watching and now losing hours to Breath of the Wild? Lol... I don't have enough hours in my days...

Bah, practice your foreign languages petaQ!

 

12 hours ago, Master Dex said:

A part of me would like a visual translation for menus. I thought I found something like that once but can't seem to find it again. Finding something of that nature would go a loooong way to solving my biggest issues in the game.

The guide I linked to does have a visual translation of most of the standard menus from the Gefion, the Gefion's hangar deck, the Hunter's Guild, and the standard City menus.

 

12 hours ago, Master Dex said:

I find that a bit saddening you are stuck in the entry level VFs so long. I mean they're great and all.. but part of me wants to get to fun stuff.. but like you said, disc one nukes are best left for replays, heh. I think the only reason I'd want to just get on with it is because without being able to enjoy the story (due to language barrier as previously stated) the game loses a lot of the charm that would normally quell my annoyance with that advancement. I'm sure normally.. it really isn't that bad.

Once you unlock your first Super Pack and discover the super moves, it becomes a bit less onerous... especially when you get the Double Strike Pack for the VF-1 and realize you basically have a Valkyrie that can do the kamehameha now.  The Itano circuses from the VF-0's Ghost Booster and the VF-1's Super Pack are pretty nice too, tho.

(Seriously.  Goku would be proud.)

 

12 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Sure, why not, lol. Technically that is accurate. Still I've seen English wording within the Macross series that was clearly a translation mishap (Mission Clitical comes to mind...).

If I had a penny for every case of a HUD saying "ROCK ON"... and who could forget the TV tagline about Ranka from the Frontier TV series: "Images in Dairy Life".

 

12 hours ago, Master Dex said:

That being said, it is the whole 'Spell my name with an S' thing. If we question this we have to question Ranka over Lanka (I remember early on that was unclear, and since the name is more unique than Reon/Leon it can go either way) and Roid over Loid. Those two besides clearly being shown to be the R versions as correct though just work better that way obviously.

It really is helpful that things like liner notes started spelling this nonsense out in English for us... tho it did feel like it added some seriously unnecessary punctuation in the names of the Aerial Knights.

 

12 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Still, I won't argue, Reon is certainly not the strangest name in Macross.

Yeah, Boquomouxy isn't likely to be topped anytime soon as "most absurd proper noun".

(That's the factory satellite that makes the Quel Quallie theatre scout pod.)

 

12 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Right, Gubaba, I remember him from here. I heard he was removed from here some time ago, but I won't ask why. Surely not the time nor place for that. I've seen his blog once or twice. I'll give that a look through again when I feel up to such things.

Do give his blog a look, he's working piecemeal on several novels at once right now including the ones for Macross Delta and Do You Remember Love?.

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On 2/6/2018 at 10:40 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Bah, practice your foreign languages petaQ!

Hah, nice.. but that and Qapla! are the only Klingon words I bother to remember. I know a handful of Rihannsu (Romulan) though....

Since we're on this subject, I had a language based question that Macross always makes me wonder about. I am thinking of Max in Macross 7 mostly, as I often do, but this is true for all the main Captains. I clearly hear other characters referring to them as Kanchou which gets translated to Captain... but I know that is not necessarily a word for Captain (though there are several words for it considering what you are meaning) and looking up Japanese naval or JDSF ranks, the word for Captain is decidedly different. I just wondered if there is any reasoning behind why they say Kanchou or if it is entirely dependent on the situation?

 

On 2/6/2018 at 10:40 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

The guide I linked to does have a visual translation of most of the standard menus from the Gefion, the Gefion's hangar deck, the Hunter's Guild, and the standard City menus.

 

Once you unlock your first Super Pack and discover the super moves, it becomes a bit less onerous... especially when you get the Double Strike Pack for the VF-1 and realize you basically have a Valkyrie that can do the kamehameha now.  The Itano circuses from the VF-0's Ghost Booster and the VF-1's Super Pack are pretty nice too, tho.

(Seriously.  Goku would be proud.)

Right... well now I know that.... I'll look through it eventually. Like I said, a lot of my plate, lol.

I guess I just have to keep at it then. Eventually.

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Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam!

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Kanchou (艦長) First Character Kan is Ship and Chou for Leader/Head, literally the Head of the Ship, it is not related to any military Rank I guess. I guess it  would be some sort of title of the one who leads the ship regardless or Rank. I think Max is the Fleet Admiral of Macross 7, if we take into consideration that Perry of Macross Frontier is an Admiral as well. Also Global is a Brigadier General (?) during the Original Series.

Edited by Sir Galahad®

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I've heard Max referred to by the rank of Colonel in 7, but that may be a thing of the subs for all I know. 

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18 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Hah, nice.. but that and Qapla! are the only Klingon words I bother to remember. I know a handful of Rihannsu (Romulan) though....

Both my parents are Trekkies, though mercifully Klingon isn't one of the languages I speak.  I had classes in real-world languages that are almost as useless, like Imperial Roman dialect Latin.  None of that soft vowel Church Latin nonsense.
 

8 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam!

Isn't it always?

 

Quote

Since we're on this subject, I had a language based question that Macross always makes me wonder about. I am thinking of Max in Macross 7 mostly, as I often do, but this is true for all the main Captains. I clearly hear other characters referring to them as Kanchou which gets translated to Captain... but I know that is not necessarily a word for Captain (though there are several words for it considering what you are meaning) and looking up Japanese naval or JDSF ranks, the word for Captain is decidedly different. I just wondered if there is any reasoning behind why they say Kanchou or if it is entirely dependent on the situation?

5 hours ago, Sir Galahad® said:

Kanchou (艦長) First Character Kan is Ship and Chou for Leader/Head, literally the Head of the Ship, it is not related to any military Rank I guess. I guess it  would be some sort of title of the one who leads the ship regardless or Rank.

So, this one's got a bit of a story to it...

Japanese military terminology is a bit on the old-fashioned side, as many of the country's modern military traditions are borrowed from western allies.  This particular tradition was quite old before modern navies existed though, and actually shares an origin with the tradition of having the ship's captain have golden laurel leaves on his cap.  Specifically, this is a tradition rooted in the Imperial Roman navy.  A patrician (nobleman) who had overall command of a vessel was called a Magister Navis, or the "Ship's Master", and as a badge of his rank was entitled to wear laurels.

Of course, as a good chunk of Europe had a massive boner for anything that smacked of the good old days of the Roman Empire, calling the commanding officer of a ship the Ship's Master or, later, "shipmaster" or just "master" became a well-entrenched naval tradition.  The term wasn't solely a military one either, though its military usage persisted because it wasn't actually very common for the commanding officer of a ship to be a full naval Captain unless the ship was a large, rated ship with more than twenty guns.  Movie buffs will recognize Master and Commander, a title related to this that referred to an officer who commanded a ship too large for a Lieutenant, but too small to rate a proper Captain and for which the commanding officer was trained in navigation.  When the Convention of Kanegawa ended Japan's policy of isolationism by threat of force in 1854, many of these military traditions were picked up by cultural osmosis as Japan geared up to build a modern naval force of its own.

So, 艦長 (Kanchou, lit. "Warship Leader") came into use as a title for the commanding officer of a warship without respect to an individual's actual rank.  It's essentially the equivalent of an English "Shipmaster".

Likewise, 提督 (Teitoku) is not a rank, but rather a title for the commander-in-chief of a particular force.  Sometimes translated Captain General, the kanji's meaning is more like "Strategy Director".  I like to translate this one as Fleetmaster, rather than Admiral.

EDIT: Essentially, part of it is simply tradition... and part of it may be that they are canonically speaking English, and everyone knows what a mess Captain vs. Captain vs. Captain can be when all those have different meanings.

 

Quote

I think Max is the Fleet Admiral of Macross 7, if we take into consideration that Perry of Macross Frontier is an Admiral as well. Also Global is a Brigadier General (?) during the Original Series.

Max's actual title is 船団長 (Sendanchou, lit. "Fleet Leader"), presumably because his rank is too low to merit being referred to as a full Fleetmaster.

As a fun nested side note, because there are multiple points in this one:

  • The fleetmaster in Macross Frontier's animated versions is not named Perry, his name is Pelliot, possibly a nod to explorer Paul Pelliot.  Commodore Matthew Perry's name is spelled differently from his.
  • His name in the novelization is Jean-Luc Tarkovsky, possibly a nod to Soviet filmmaker Andrei Tarkovsky (and probably Jean-Luc Picard).  In the novels, he is only the commanding officer for the NMCV-25 Battle Frontier, the fleetmaster is a General by the name of Kelvin Backflight.
  • His actual military rank is Brigadier General.

Yes, Bruno J. Global's rank at the start of Super Dimension Fortress Macross and Macross: Do You Remember Love? is Brigadier General.

 

3 hours ago, Master Dex said:

I've heard Max referred to by the rank of Colonel in 7, but that may be a thing of the subs for all I know. 

Max is indeed a Colonel in Macross 7... and every Macross 7 sidestory that involves an evil/corrupt New UN Forces officer will always have the big bad be a fellow Colonel so Max can't simply take them to task on rank alone.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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Is there no visual reference of Wilbur Garland in VF-X2?

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1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

Is there no visual reference of Wilbur Garland in VF-X2?

Two books I know of have line art for him.

Macross VF-X2: Perfect Official Clue File has various views of his head along with a one-liner bio on page 10.  (He shares a half-page with Mariafokina Barnrose.)  He's also present in the line art for a character group shot/height comparison on page 81.  (He's the grouchy-looking git with the beard.)

Macross VF-X2: Official Visual Guide gives a more complete line art profile of him on page 12, but again he's sharing a page with another character... in this case, Manfred Brando.  This one has a full-body line art of him from the front, a knees-up view from the rear, and the same assorted face shots from the other book.

I don't believe the game gave him a mission eyecatch screen like the last few characters that you posted about.  The ones in the gallery in the Official Visual Guide are Aegis Focker and a VF-1X+, Gilliam Angreat and a VF-19A, Syun Tohma and a VF-17D, Suzie Newlet and a VF-11B, Timothy Daldanton and a Feios Valkyrie, Manfred Brando and his VF-17S, Mariafokina Barnrose and her VF-1S/X, Suzie and Syun with a Konig Monster, and then three with the bridge girls in front of a VF-22, VF-11C Fullarmor, and VA-3M.

 

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In Macross Frontier, we see that Ozma's unit has the hull marking "SMS001". Michael has "SMS003", Luca has "SMS004", and Gilliam / Alto has "SMS007". So who's 2, 5, and 6? However do these fighter hull markings work?

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10 hours ago, SMS007 said:

In Macross Frontier, we see that Ozma's unit has the hull marking "SMS001". Michael has "SMS003", Luca has "SMS004", and Gilliam / Alto has "SMS007". So who's 2, 5, and 6? However do these fighter hull markings work?

They're modex numbers.

Answering the rest of your question is a bit difficult because no SMS unit has been described at any size larger than a platoon.  The standard usage is that the first digit denotes the squadron number within the Carrier Air Wing, and the next two digits refer to an individual aircraft.  Usage as changed over time, but the unit numbers were sorted by unit purpose such that 1xx thru 4xx were fighter or strike fighter units, and then you had things like attackers, early warning planes, helicopters, anti-submarine units, etc. occupying the higher numbers.

Because SMS doesn't seem to organize its VFs into actual fighter squadrons, it's hard to say where the other numbers are.  Presumably they're assigned to other platoons aboard the SMS Macross Quarter.  Traditionally x01 is the squadron commander and x02 is the executive officer.  This poses a problem, as Michael is 003 and he's Ozma's second in command in the series.  (Maybe SMS002 belongs to the ship's deputy commander of the air group or something?)

The real fun question is... what does the New UN Spacy do now that they have several dozen supercarriers, each of which can have HUNDREDS of fighters on it.  SDF-1 Macross had over 300 VF-1s on it, three or four Carrier Air Wings worth.  The post-retrofit version could have over 500... and don't even get me started on the Battle-class's 750.  We don't know if they just made the carrier air wings bigger and are using every digit, if each ship has multiple carrier air wings attached to it and thus multiple aircraft designated 101 or 311 or what have you, or if the biggest ships have gone to a four digit modex.

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As i continue to read about this topic thread over on BT (the lawsuit between HG & PGI aka Mechwarrior Online & co) ... i wonder. If the fates actually give us light (that HG loses completely the rights to Macross & Co in 2021), does that mean TPTB in Japan (if they have any interest in making the effort for profit's sake) may finally consider putting some or all of their TV show productions on some platform in the states (say, Netflix's anime section) sometime after?

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On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:21 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

They're modex numbers.

Answering the rest of your question is a bit difficult because no SMS unit has been described at any size larger than a platoon.  The standard usage is that the first digit denotes the squadron number within the Carrier Air Wing, and the next two digits refer to an individual aircraft.  Usage as changed over time, but the unit numbers were sorted by unit purpose such that 1xx thru 4xx were fighter or strike fighter units, and then you had things like attackers, early warning planes, helicopters, anti-submarine units, etc. occupying the higher numbers.

Because SMS doesn't seem to organize its VFs into actual fighter squadrons, it's hard to say where the other numbers are.  Presumably they're assigned to other platoons aboard the SMS Macross Quarter.  Traditionally x01 is the squadron commander and x02 is the executive officer.  This poses a problem, as Michael is 003 and he's Ozma's second in command in the series.  (Maybe SMS002 belongs to the ship's deputy commander of the air group or something?)

The real fun question is... what does the New UN Spacy do now that they have several dozen supercarriers, each of which can have HUNDREDS of fighters on it.  SDF-1 Macross had over 300 VF-1s on it, three or four Carrier Air Wings worth.  The post-retrofit version could have over 500... and don't even get me started on the Battle-class's 750.  We don't know if they just made the carrier air wings bigger and are using every digit, if each ship has multiple carrier air wings attached to it and thus multiple aircraft designated 101 or 311 or what have you, or if the biggest ships have gone to a four digit modex.

To even remotely speculate, one was know these questions' answers:

 

1) How many VF's per squadron?

2) How many squadrons per vessel (presumably it's still 1 Air Wing per ship)?

3) Out of the entire number of VF's the ship can carry, how many of those VF's are considered 'UP status'? (that is, how many planes are able to sortie, how many planes are expected to be down for scheduled maintenance/being rebuilt as result of battle damage)?

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8 minutes ago, TehPW said:

To even remotely speculate, one was know these questions' answers:

 

1) How many VF's per squadron?

Anywhere from fifteen to twenty-four aircraft, all told.  They were organized into platoons of three, so five to eight platoons.

(In conjunction with the below, fifteen would appear to be the most typical size c.2009 February.)

 

8 minutes ago, TehPW said:

2) How many squadrons per vessel (presumably it's still 1 Air Wing per ship)?

Canonically?  No data is available on that score.

Variable Fighter Master File: SDF-1 Macross VF-1 Squadrons indicates that the SDF-1 Macross was carrying fourteen UN Spacy fighter squadrons representing three distinct Carrier Air Wings: seven squadrons from CVW-9, five squadrons from CVW-1, and two squadrons from CVW-14.  That was the 212 VF-1 Valkyries the ship had prior to her first return to Earth.  (After resupply, she left the Earth carrying over 300 VF-1 Super Valkyries, so either she added additional squadrons later or a number of the squadrons aboard ship absorbed a lot of new personnel.)

This would neatly divide down into fourteen squadrons of fifteen VF-1s apiece, with two aircraft going to spare.

The ARMD-class and ARMD II-class carriers had similarly huge capacities of nearly 300 fighters.  Only later, when the NUNS adopted carriers meant for long-haul travel across the galaxy did the number of fighters carried drop to a reasonable number.  The Guantanamo-class's stated capacity would give it room enough for three squadrons and change, the Uraga-class topping out at five.  The Battle-class would have room for fifty...

 

8 minutes ago, TehPW said:

3) Out of the entire number of VF's the ship can carry, how many of those VF's are considered 'UP status'? (that is, how many planes are able to sortie, how many planes are expected to be down for scheduled maintenance/being rebuilt as result of battle damage)?

Unknown.  It's highly probable that the twelve VF-1D Valkyries that were part of the ship's original complement were used sparingly, if at all, given that they're noted as having compromised the life support/escape equipment in the cockpit block in order to make room for the student seat and all the extra control and display hardware.  (They may have been converted into VF-1As by changing the cockpit block and monitor turret.  Or possibly just the cockpit block, resulting in the DA type referenced in Master File on occasion.)

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46 minutes ago, TehPW said:

As i continue to read about this topic thread over on BT (the lawsuit between HG & PGI aka Mechwarrior Online & co) ... i wonder. If the fates actually give us light (that HG loses completely the rights to Macross & Co in 2021), does that mean TPTB in Japan (if they have any interest in making the effort for profit's sake) may finally consider putting some or all of their TV show productions on some platform in the states (say, Netflix's anime section) sometime after?

It'd be down to their discretion if they wanted to do it themselves... the more likely outcome is that some distributor will seek to establish a working relationship with Big West and test the waters with one show, then gradually release the others to streaming and home video.

Macross is, at the very least, prevalent enough despite No Export For You status that it wouldn't be flying under the radar once the obstacles to licensing were removed.

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Posted (edited)

So this is a question for the materials engineers...

Even with the "energy converting armor" and super scifi metal, in battroid mode, wouldn't the pointy spiky bits like the control surfaces on the valkyries come under ridiculous torsion stresses in anything resembling hand to hand combat or being pushed up against a wall or something?

Edited by aurance

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7 hours ago, aurance said:

So this is a question for the materials engineers...

Even with the "energy converting armor" and super scifi metal, in battroid mode, wouldn't the pointy spiky bits like the control surfaces on the valkyries come under ridiculous torsion stresses in anything resembling hand to hand combat or being pushed up against a wall or something?

The mechanical stresses of making something that big walk, run, or swing a punch alone would be pretty extreme.  Given their typical placement, shear stresses would be much more likely... bending, rather than twisting, of the surfaces.  That's probably why most VF designs tuck the sensitive parts away when they transform, even though the hypercarbon composites they're made from are super Tonka tough stuff and energy conversion armor beefs that up further.

There is the question of how, exactly, energy conversion armor works that may be a factor in this.  We know it's a layered, laminated armor material but I haven't found a decent explanation of how precisely it achieves greater defensive strength when pumped with electromagnetic pulses. Is the hypercarbon composite material becoming more rigid and resistant to deformation?  Are laminate layers being rendered more elastic and able to spread impact force?  Is either layer gaining some ability to reversibly deform under load?  It's still a topic I'd love to close.

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So a question: Does Fold Quartz have a specific colour? 

From memory I've seen blue, pink, and green but not sure if that might have just been a container for the quartz or the actual colour of said material.

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19 minutes ago, Focslain said:

So a question: Does Fold Quartz have a specific colour? 

From memory I've seen blue, pink, and green but not sure if that might have just been a container for the quartz or the actual colour of said material.

Thus far, almost every piece of fold quartz that has appeared on screen in Macross has been colored a faintly pink-tinged deep purple.

The only noteworthy exceptions are the shot of the V-type bacterium in Macross Frontier that looks more pink than purple, though the shot of the same bacterium in Delta makes it the same color the larger samples are, and the raw stuff we very briefly see the Vajra mining from stellar debris in the final episode of Macross Frontier, which is almost a pastel pink and faintly glowing.

A lot of fans mistake the polarized covers over the sensor lenses on the noses of 5th Gen VFs for a fold quartz fitting.  Those are just protective covers for various infrared, laser, lidar, and other high sensitivity sensors, and have been depicted in green, a few different shades of blue, red, pink, and purple.  

The only models of VF with externally-mounted fold quartz fittings are the YF-29 and the Siegfried custom VF-31.  The protective covers over the fold quartz on the YF-29 (all versions) are the same deep purple as the fold quartz itself, though the covers over the secondary fold quartz fittings that act as fold wave amps are blue on the YF-29 Isamu, Ozma, and Rod versions.  The VF-31's covers are tinted more along the lines of a dark pink.

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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

A lot of fans mistake the polarized covers over the sensor lenses on the noses of 5th Gen VFs for a fold quartz fitting.  Those are just protective covers for various infrared, laser, lidar, and other high sensitivity sensors, and have been depicted in green, a few different shades of blue, red, pink, and purple.  

That might have been where I was getting my colours too. Well that was informative.  

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7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The mechanical stresses of making something that big walk, run, or swing a punch alone would be pretty extreme.  Given their typical placement, shear stresses would be much more likely... bending, rather than twisting, of the surfaces.  That's probably why most VF designs tuck the sensitive parts away when they transform, even though the hypercarbon composites they're made from are super Tonka tough stuff and energy conversion armor beefs that up further.

There is the question of how, exactly, energy conversion armor works that may be a factor in this.  We know it's a layered, laminated armor material but I haven't found a decent explanation of how precisely it achieves greater defensive strength when pumped with electromagnetic pulses. Is the hypercarbon composite material becoming more rigid and resistant to deformation?  Are laminate layers being rendered more elastic and able to spread impact force?  Is either layer gaining some ability to reversibly deform under load?  It's still a topic I'd love to close.

Though ECA is definitely a mystery I'd also like to see answered, I also generally just want to know what exactly hypercarbon is. Is it a natural variation of carbon, does it get created. It's it just denser carbon structures (like a form of diamond armor) or something else? I don't suspect there is a full answer yet somehow. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Focslain said:

That might have been where I was getting my colours too. Well that was informative.  

That, or possibly that fold quartz that's being charged with fold waves glows pink in mecha or as an item of jewelry but is inexplicably glowing blue-green when part of an active V-type infection.  (That or maybe that's just all the water in the human body scattering the shorter wavelengths of light from the glow?)

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

Though ECA is definitely a mystery I'd also like to see answered, I also generally just want to know what exactly hypercarbon is. Is it a natural variation of carbon, does it get created. It's it just denser carbon structures (like a form of diamond armor) or something else? I don't suspect there is a full answer yet somehow. 

Hypercarbon is a synthetic carbon allotrope with metallic properties which is harder than diamond, lighter than steel, has a high magnetic field saturation point, and has excellent heat resistance.1  In the very oldest sources, it's suggested to be 100x stronger than an equivalent thickness of rolled homogeneous steel armor.

Basically, it's kissing cousins with carbon nanomaterials like fullerine, graphene, carbon nanotubes, and so on.  A number of synthetic carbon allotropes check off multiple items on that list, though its closest real-world relative would have to be the recently-discovered Q-carbon, which ticks off most of those properties including the metallic behaviors and being 10-20% stronger than diamond.  It's made by nanosecond pulse-heating carbon with high-intensity lasers and then rapidly quenching it.

 

1. Making it a bit more exotic than Gundam's Luna Titanium/Gundarium... which, funnily enough, is just an exotic cemented carbide composite made using (in part) titanium dioxide harvested from lunar regolith.  Gundams are basically armored with the same kind of material that's used mainly for the cutting edges of power tools and mining equipment.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hypercarbon is a synthetic carbon allotrope with metallic properties which is harder than diamond, lighter than steel, has a high magnetic field saturation point, and has excellent heat resistance.1  In the very oldest sources, it's suggested to be 100x stronger than an equivalent thickness of rolled homogeneous steel armor.

Basically, it's kissing cousins with carbon nanomaterials like fullerine, graphene, carbon nanotubes, and so on.  A number of synthetic carbon allotropes check off multiple items on that list, though its closest real-world relative would have to be the recently-discovered Q-carbon, which ticks off most of those properties including the metallic behaviors and being 10-20% stronger than diamond.  It's made by nanosecond pulse-heating carbon with high-intensity lasers and then rapidly quenching it.

 

1. Making it a bit more exotic than Gundam's Luna Titanium/Gundarium... which, funnily enough, is just an exotic cemented carbide composite made using (in part) titanium dioxide harvested from lunar regolith.  Gundams are basically armored with the same kind of material that's used mainly for the cutting edges of power tools and mining equipment.

A lot simpler than I expected... so we sorta have a version of it today.. but that method of creation seems pretty hard to do on mass scales.. at least not cheaply.. so probably Overtechnology made it easier to make in large amounts in universe. Still, pretty neat.

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15 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There is the question of how, exactly, energy conversion armor works that may be a factor in this.  We know it's a layered, laminated armor material but I haven't found a decent explanation of how precisely it achieves greater defensive strength when pumped with electromagnetic pulses. Is the hypercarbon composite material becoming more rigid and resistant to deformation?  Are laminate layers being rendered more elastic and able to spread impact force?  Is either layer gaining some ability to reversibly deform under load?  It's still a topic I'd love to close.

The ECA possibly causing the valk to become more padding squishy or deformed is certainly an idea I hadn't considered. Interesting. This reminds me of how the yf-21 moves it's wings.

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Are Zentraedi ever children? Did the Protoculture grow them in test tubes until early adulthood? Basically, are they off fighting in space after only being in existence for a year or two? We know in Delta that Mikumo was basically born an adult, would the same be true of Zentraedi (initially, obviously the Zentraedi start doing things more naturally after the human influence).

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10 hours ago, aurance said:

The ECA possibly causing the valk to become more padding squishy or deformed is certainly an idea I hadn't considered. Interesting. This reminds me of how the yf-21 moves it's wings.

It's one possibility... there are a number of modern shape memory alloys and composites that will reverse any deformation they're subjected to (within limits) when subjected to electric current or heat.

I was pretty disappointed with the Variable Fighter Master File explanation for the YF-21's variable camber wing.  They depict it as a rigid central frame with a dozen or so finger-like actuators which connect to the edges of the wing surface and flex in different directions to adjust the camber of its flexible composite skin.  Supposedly it's so expensive that it was only ever used twice: on the YF-21 and VF-19ACTIVE.

 

11 minutes ago, jenius said:

Are Zentraedi ever children? Did the Protoculture grow them in test tubes until early adulthood? Basically, are they off fighting in space after only being in existence for a year or two? We know in Delta that Mikumo was basically born an adult, would the same be true of Zentraedi (initially, obviously the Zentraedi start doing things more naturally after the human influence).

Dunno!  We've never seen a Zentradi child, apart from ones who are either explicitly indicated or implied to be natural born.  We know Zentradi cloning and micloning systems are able to copy an individual right down to their memories (via Macross Chronicle, etc.), so it seems highly likely the standard practice would be for Zentradi to emerge from cloning in a state approximating physical maturity and combat-ready fitness, pre-loaded with at least basic knowledge like the language or basic combat training.  Assuming their combat roles aren't set from inception, they might need to undergo training for whatever their assigned task is... at least based on the original series, where Boddole Zer promised the lolicon trio a promotion to a command position should their undercover operation be a success.

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On 3/8/2018 at 1:27 AM, jenius said:

Are Zentraedi ever children? Did the Protoculture grow them in test tubes until early adulthood? Basically, are they off fighting in space after only being in existence for a year or two? We know in Delta that Mikumo was basically born an adult, would the same be true of Zentraedi (initially, obviously the Zentraedi start doing things more naturally after the human influence).

Well we have never have seen non-natural born Zentradi children with exception of Moaramia Jifon  and her fellow clones. The Zentradi Variable Glaug has a small cockpit so it is fit for small build Meltrandi or a Zentradi child.

If we go by DYRL the Protoculture went for cloning to reproduce their species that led to a gender based war.

 

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What was the structure of the UN Government, and why aren't they being pictured. I mean in the original Macross Series we see Takashi Hayase as the head of UN Spacy (as far as I know). Do they report to someone higher?

And for Delta, it's like the Government heads for each planet were actually doing nothing at all but depend on Kaos or something.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Sir Galahad® said:

What was the structure of the UN Government, and why aren't they being pictured.

We know relatively little about the actual structure of the Earth Unification Government prior to the First Space War, apart from the fact that the head of state was a prime minister.

It's not clear if the government was a bicameral or unicameral parliament, but considering that the final United Nations general assembly before its dissolution served as the provisional UN Gov't, the structure may be something like the European Union parliament's technically-bicameral setup with the "lower house" being the parliament, the "upper house" being a rotating council, and executive power resting with the cabinet ministers and PM. 

The New UN Government c.2050 was likened to the European Union by Kawamori in his Otona Anime #9 interview, so there may be something to the above if the reconstruction of the government was according to its original constitution/charter after the First Space War ended.

 

Quote

I mean in the original Macross Series we see Takashi Hayase as the head of UN Spacy (as far as I know). Do they report to someone higher?

General Hayase and his fellows were basically the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the Earth UN Forces, so presumably they're answerable to the Unification Government's current Minister for Defense1 or its Prime Minister2.

 

Quote

And for Delta, it's like the Government heads for each planet were actually doing nothing at all but depend on Kaos or something.

By the time Macross Delta is set, the New UN Government had moved from being a strong central authority to being a more decentralized central government like the European Union3, with the big dust-up ("Second Unification War" c.2050-2051) being a symptom of a gradual devolution of more authority to the individual local governments.  One consequence of this and the reorganization the New UN Forces underwent to accommodate decentralization, is that the New UN Government isn't quite so ready to intervene in local conflicts between its member fleets/worlds the way it did back during the 2040s.

The local governments in the Brisingr globular cluster and their mutual economic/defense pact (the so-called Brisingr Alliance) seem to have been relying pretty damn heavily on Xaos to protect them since Xaos was much more resistant4 to Var syndrome thanks to Walkure and their own troops are much more susceptible thanks to years of consuming tainted foodstuffs exported by Windermere's government.  Their own poor lookout, really, since Xaos turned out to be pretty freaking awful at going it on their own.  They ought to have been leaning on Xaos to work in partnership with their local New UN Forces to shield them from Var outbreaks, since they could beat the Aerial Knights using sheer weight of numbers without the Song of the Wind mind controlling them.

 

1. Assuming that's what the office is called... Defense Minister, Minister for Defense, Secretary of Defense, Minister for the National Defense... there are a lot of potential variants here.  There's a fair case for "Secretary of Enuff Dakka" considering how over-the-top Earth's defenses are c.2040.
2. Pseudo-canon/expanded universe material would make that Prime Minister Robert A. Rhysling for that time period.  ARMD-14 would later be named in his honor.  One has to wonder if Bruno J. Global ever became Prime Minister, since an aircraft carrier was named in his honor (Uraga-class, CV-339 Bruno J. Gloval) in addition to having a Macross-class ship (SDFN-04 General Bruno J. Global) named in his honor for his tenure as C-in-C for the (New) UN Spacy following the First Space War.
3. The aforementioned comparison drawn by Kawamori in Otona Anime #9.
4. As we see in Macross Delta proper with Hayate, even having a fold receptor factor doesn't make you properly immune... it just means it takes a lot more exposure to biological fold waves to go Var.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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