Gubaba Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Should we start calling you Mr. van Winkle, then? It's gonna be a while... they've only just announced the project's existence, so we've probably got a year or so. True story... I talked to a guy a few weeks ago who works at Big West. HIM: Did you hear the news? ME: Yeah. Are you busy? HIM: It's beginning to get busy... Edited April 19, 2014 by Gubaba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekko Basara Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Bobby Margot is simultaneously the most effeminate male in Macross and its most hotblooded character. Mash and Honey are sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I think you have a very narrow view of what an old-school anime is actually like. This IS a fan site. I would think narrow views of what one likes is a good thing to stimulate discussion. If we all agreed there would be no point in having a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 You're right, I am not correct. Twenty-six threads NOT bitching about Macross 7. You must be proud. OK, let me give you the benefit of the doubt here and say you posted ten -- bah, hell, make twenty -- times in each of those threads. That is a total of 520 non-M7 bitch posts. Looking at your count as it stands now, you have 6465 in total. That's 12.4%. I don't know, but that's really not enough to convince me. ... Actually I have been posting here for over 10 years and on the yahoo interest group before Sean and Graham even started this site. Many of those threads do not exist anymore. Also, most of my discussion in the last 4 years has been in the OTHER section. There hasn't been much to say about Macross lately, but I have so many friends here, I like discussing Star Wars, and other things with my friends. Also, I like seeing what other forms the M7 fans like. Strangely enough, we seem to like the same stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Mash and Honey are sad According to Macross Chronicle, Mash is straight. No word on Honey, though... yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Weirdly enough, all this homophobia and misogyny does raise an idea I had before; I think it's possible Kawamori used Alto to attempt a pro-gay/pro-tolerance message in Macross Frontier, working within the homophobic constraints of his current society. Perhaps Kawamori couldn't have created an openly gay protagonist for a Macross series, so he settled for a straight protagonist with an effeminate appearance and a gender-bending history through Kabuki theatre. He then ascribed a traditional hero's journey to Alto and gave him the character budding development that would lead him to adopt discipline, courage, selflessness and determination, traits that popular culture has traditionally allowed only straight male characters to possess. It's also possible that Kawamori's intent was not related to homosexuality, but was more simply feminism of a sort. A lead character being female might also have been impossible for a Macross series, so Kawamori made Alto with such traits to positively represent another oppressed minority group. In which case all the above would still apply. Of course, I think Kawamori's concept and use of Alto may have inadvertantly reinforced stereotypes to a lesser degree. If we assume homosexuality was the group to be represented by Alto, again we have a character representing that group as defined by stereotypical effeminate traits. Granted, this all may be giving Kawamori and Macross Frontier too much credit. Perhaps Alto is simply meant to have a troubled past marred by awkward familial/social obligations because that's what the Macross Frontier writers thought would make for an interesting/relatable character for modern young audiences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Weirdly enough, all this homophobia and misogyny does raise an idea I had before; I think it's possible Kawamori used Alto to attempt a pro-gay/pro-tolerance message in Macross Frontier,... You discount the fujoushi at your loss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekko Basara Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 According to Macross Chronicle, Mash is straight. No word on Honey, though... yet. Haha, I didn't know that. I thought he jokingly propositioned Hibeki, but maybe I'm misremembering. But, anyway, I didn't say either of them was gay; I said they were "effeminate." It seems like the portrayal of masculinity in Macross could make a good separate thread, and maybe it already has. It strikes me that even aside from flamboyant characters like Bobby, Mash, and Honey, a lot of the central characters are far from hyper-masculine. People make a big deal about Alto, but Hikaru is a small, pretty, and often very un-assertive guy. Max, Michael, and arguably Hibeki are basically pretty-boys. The characters with loads of machismo are more often in supporting roles, like Roy, Ozma, and Ray (although Isamu is a clear exception). Macross may have historically had a mostly-male fanbase, and SDFM certainly comes off as a story written by a bunch of (naive) young men, but I'd argue that Plus - written by a woman - is the only animated installment where the male leads are all aggressively masculine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 You discount the fujoushi at your loss... The ignorance of any other anime that isn't Macross is kind of staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 The ignorance of any other anime that isn't Macross is kind of staggering. Do we need to love other anime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Do we need to love other anime? I'd say not loving Gunbuster is un-American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'd say not loving Gunbuster is un-American. Its no Golgo 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bariaburu Faita Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) I will actually give M7 some credit here. It was a disappointment to the fans of the original. M7 fit the times for the younger generation of highly emotional effeminate males. It did bring some fans into the franchise with its different reach (very similar to Star Wars episode 1) but still only had 10% of the audience that SDFM did (someone posted the viewer numbers once). I think you are missing the even more obvious effect of M7. It was not "highly emotional effeminate males" but actual young girls that was brought into Macross fandom. Initially male fans of M7 may have been indifferent to this, but once the girls grew up to be women of child bearing age, they quickly saw the benefits. The result is, today we have another generation of Macross fans, who are the offspring of fans of M7. Living here in Japan I have seen ample proof of this. At the last crossover live event, fully half of the audience were female. During the performance of Totsugeki Love Heart, Yoshiki Fukuyama had the audience sing the chorus, with directions that all the females do it, followed by the males. The female sung chorus was just as loud, if not louder than the males. And those young girls, are now middle aged women with discretionary income. One of the few macross events still frequently being held, is the Oshare Macross. Held at the Marui department stores they have merchandice like jewelry and such that is primarily marketed towards women. This puts money in the pockets of Big West, funding future Macross products. Even if some of us are not M7 fans, we must thank the series for ensuring the future of Macross. Please, Agent ONE. visit us in Japan and lets have a drink at Fire BomBAR and you can see how diverse the M7 fanbase actually is. Edited April 20, 2014 by Bariaburu Faita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Nash Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) A Macross Academy of flight and spaceeeeee tour XD Edited April 20, 2014 by Old_Nash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I think you are missing the even more obvious effect of M7. It was not "highly emotional effeminate males" but actual young girls that was brought into Macross fandom. Initially male fans of M7 may have been indifferent to this, but once the girls grew up to be women of child bearing age, they quickly saw the benefits. ... Please, Agent ONE. visit us in Japan and lets have a drink at Fire BomBAR and you can see how diverse the M7 fanbase actually is. You are the first one to suggest that the show was for a female audience. That would make a ton of sense. I love Japan! I was actually just at Osaka university meeting with some researchers. I will be back in the next 6 months and will PM you for that drink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerli Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Haha, I didn't know that. I thought he jokingly propositioned Hibeki, but maybe I'm misremembering. But, anyway, I didn't say either of them was gay; I said they were "effeminate." It seems like the portrayal of masculinity in Macross could make a good separate thread, and maybe it already has. It strikes me that even aside from flamboyant characters like Bobby, Mash, and Honey, a lot of the central characters are far from hyper-masculine. People make a big deal about Alto, but Hikaru is a small, pretty, and often very un-assertive guy. Max, Michael, and arguably Hibeki are basically pretty-boys. The characters with loads of machismo are more often in supporting roles, like Roy, Ozma, and Ray (although Isamu is a clear exception). Macross may have historically had a mostly-male fanbase, and SDFM certainly comes off as a story written by a bunch of (naive) young men, but I'd argue that Plus - written by a woman - is the only animated installment where the male leads are all aggressively masculine. Kawamori did a really mature approaching to this theme in Earth Girl Arjuna if I remember correctly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 You discount the fujoushi at your loss... Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. I was right when I thought I may be giving Macross too much credit, but for the wrong reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDude Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I wouldn't mind seeing a series about a bunch of new recruits(both sexes) getting trained and having their 1st encounters. Mixture of pilots(valks, destroid) and standard crew. Could be set anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 destroids will be forever supporting cast. Not as interesting as flying stuff. That would be like a military movie about supply truck drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDude Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Not if written properly and I was thinking a series about the crews and not the mecha, similar to Patlabor, MS-08th, etc. You can still have existing characters as part-time cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganbare Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Suddenly my inbox full of announcement from this thread. I think there's new development of the Tv series, but it's not. Back to my coach then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Does anybody remember how much time passed since Frontier was first announced and its premier? I discovered these forums in the same year Frontier started.... I just hope they don't end up releasing the new series until the 35 anniversary in 2017.... I am not getting any younger, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valk1j Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Does anybody remember how much time passed since Frontier was first announced and its premier? I discovered these forums in the same year Frontier started.... I just hope they don't end up releasing the new series until the 35 anniversary in 2017.... I am not getting any younger, you know? If memory serves me, I believe Victor put out a casting call in March 2007 for Ranka, the series came out in December 2007. I am not sure if the new series was announced before that. Edited April 20, 2014 by valk1j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 We know that this new series will be out before HG releases anything for Robotech! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 We know that this new series will be out before HG releases anything for Robotech! When it comes to animation, yes. All other forms of media, not sure. What really matters is that this will not become an empty promise spanning decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerli Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 We know that this new series will be out before HG releases anything for Robotech! Before the Robotech-Heidi Crossover? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommar Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Does anybody remember how much time passed since Frontier was first announced and its premier? I discovered these forums in the same year Frontier started.... I just hope they don't end up releasing the new series until the 35 anniversary in 2017.... I am not getting any younger, you know? You might not be getting any younger but you sure as hell don't need to act any more mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegadeleader1 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) destroids will be forever supporting cast. Not as interesting as flying stuff. That would be like a military movie about supply truck drivers.You lose.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ball_Express_(film) Edited April 21, 2014 by renegadeleader1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You lose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ball_Express_(film) ... And its so famous. Thats why we have all heard of it. I think I win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerli Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 ... And its so famous. Thats why we have all heard of it. I think I win. And Farewell to Arms? is about an ambulance driver in WW1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 destroids will be forever supporting cast. Not as interesting as flying stuff. That would be like a military movie about supply truck drivers. At this point, I can't help but recall Mobile Suit Gundam: MS IGLOO 2: The Gravity Front... which managed to be quite interesting and more than a little awesome, yet there are no Federation mobile suit pilots in the cast until the very last episode. The first two parts were about infantry and tank crews, and the latter contains one of the best fights in Gundam (Between Lt. Yandell's tanks and a platoon of Zaku II's). If Gundam can succeed with a series that has no Gundams, then Macross could probably sell a series about Destroids if they really cared to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strumvogel Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) It will have to exist as a side story though, which is what the MS IGLOO series pretty much are. All I care for is a good story above all else. Frontier is fine but is too much of a "best of" re-tread. M7 can be a bit of a hit-an-miss series but for it's length, understandable. Zero is just plain "huh?" in the end. Edited April 21, 2014 by Strumvogel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Uh, you guys are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Do we all agree that we are super excited about another Macross show!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekko Basara Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Sir, yes, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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