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HG and Robotech Debates


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It would be interesting... but I doubt he has any to share.

On the contrary, I do. It's a pic of the ship, and a pic of it transformed in a 3/4 view. Almost the same as the Gamma fighter picture. He never shows a frontal pic, but it is shown transformed. There's also some of a hoover cyclone, and Tommy's version of Showgirls in Space, AKA, JANICE and Ariola. Seeing those pics is why I laughed at Tommy's excuse for why all the girls were in skimpy clothes with big boobs. The studios were just making those characters off of his designs that he signed off on. Anyways...

On the issue of new news for Robotech, really? I mean, REALLY? Fanboys will probably say that all is moving, but even if that were the case (which really isn't), perception is everything, and if you're name isn't out there, you're product is dead.

Supposedly, the new work for the old animation is still being worked on, as well as Carl's documentary, but there's nothing new that's been announced since they first announced the "new animated series". Fans seem to be doing some stuff though, and the ones that are actually doing something very cool, I'm fortunate to be working with. Hopefully the end result will be worth the time involved.

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with HG, I've long since taken the stance of "I'll believe it when I see it"

Ah, now that's the stance people should be taking where Harmony Gold is concerned. Between their downright pathetic track record and their marked tendency to distort the truth to cover their own failings, it's only natural that we should greet every piece of "news" from Harmony Gold with sincere skepticism.

On the contrary, I do. It's a pic of the ship, and a pic of it transformed in a 3/4 view. Almost the same as the Gamma fighter picture. He never shows a frontal pic, but it is shown transformed.

Now that'd be an interesting sight to see... though it's kind of funny that Tommy constantly shows only behind views in his "promo" and "concept" art. I'd suggest that he's one of those guys who's all about the ass, but I think Shadow Chronicles is a pretty good counterargument to that, what with every female lead showing nearly enough cleavage to hold up a Christmas tree.

There's also some of a hoover cyclone, and Tommy's version of Showgirls in Space, AKA, JANICE and Ariola. Seeing those pics is why I laughed at Tommy's excuse for why all the girls were in skimpy clothes with big boobs. The studios were just making those characters off of his designs that he signed off on. Anyways...

It was a particularly weak excuse... made all the weaker by the promo art being signed "Studio Yune".

On the issue of new news for Robotech, really? I mean, REALLY? Fanboys will probably say that all is moving, but even if that were the case (which really isn't), perception is everything, and if you're name isn't out there, you're product is dead.

Oh, naturally... there are a few fanboys who still want to believe (or want others to believe) that things are still moving forward and that Robotech has a bright future ahead of it. Almost without exception, they're the sort of bottom-feeding trolls who think kissing the asses of Tommy Yune and/or Kevin McKeever is going to get pay off for them in employment or insider status.

Supposedly, the new work for the old animation is still being worked on, as well as Carl's documentary, but there's nothing new that's been announced since they first announced the "new animated series". Fans seem to be doing some stuff though, and the ones that are actually doing something very cool, I'm fortunate to be working with. Hopefully the end result will be worth the time involved.

No surprises there... but you and I must get around in different fan circles, because I've yet to see anything I'd call "very cool" or even "mildly interesting" from the Robotech fandom. I've seen a handful of Robotech podcasts, but very few actually talk about Robotech while the majority are little more than gossip columns where the host can be an internet tough guy and insult people... secure in the knowledge that it'll only ever be heard by a few people. The few attempts at fan-films I've seen have all been painfully derivative and are almost invariably Macross-based... because the 49 episodes that came after the Macross Saga don't really matter, right? Fan art isn't much better... it's almost all Macross stuff. The only noteworthy new-ish Robotech fan site other than JT's Protoculture Times blog/podcast is an attempt to revive/continue the uRRG by one of its junior writers... but it's only worth noting in that its author is "expanding" the Robotech setting by "borrowing" material from unrelated Macross titles like Macross Zero, Macross: Flashback 2012, and Macross 7. Y'know, the kind of website that Tom Bateman didn't want to believe exists a few pages back...;)

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We've been left hanging on "The Shadow Chronicles" for like 4 -5 years now. I demand to know what happens next. What happens when I try to find out what's going on? I get banned from RT.com, WTF!

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We've been left hanging on "The Shadow Chronicles" for like 4 -5 years now. I demand to know what happens next.

An unexpected space/time continuum rip occurs as Grace announces herself goddess of the universe, a Vajra fleet arrives over Earth as the REF and Haydonites wage war. The Vajra annihilate both fleets and Earth just as Grace is defeated and the Vajra return to their homeworld. The last thing you see is Rick Hunter screaming "YAK DECULTURE!!!" as the SDF-3 is destroyed.

THE END

Edited by Zor Primus
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An unexpected space/time continuum rip occurs as Grace announces herself goddess of the universe, a Vajra fleet arrives over Earth as the REF and Haydonites wage war. The Vajra annihilate both fleets and Earth just as Grace is defeated and the Vajra return to their homeworld. The last thing you see is Rick Hunter screaming "YAK DECULTURE!!!" as the SDF-3 is destroyed.

THE END

I find this to be an acceptable conclusion! Although I think you forgot the part where Grace unleashes 100's of MDE's, whiping everything in the robotech universe out of existence.

Edited by Keith
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Give me sometime and I'll go through my books, notebooks, and magazines, and see if I can find the transformed Ark Angel. It's not a big pic at all, but it is out there.

Please do. For some sick, twisted reason I just love looking at Tommy Yune's failed mechanical designs.

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Please do. For some sick, twisted reason I just love looking at Tommy Yune's failed mechanical designs.

From the backside, it actually doesn't look too bad. I may not like Tommy's character designs for anything, but the mecha designs aren't that bad. I did wonder though, why he'd draw all these designs, if only to use rehashes and the most basic, blocky looking ships later on. It's like they started with better stuff, and worked downwards.

Well considering the Ark Angel had no carrier or ARMD type attachments the thing already is going to look "armless" :unsure:

The ship doesn't look as much like it did in the movie. As stated above, I think they took a slightly better design, and decided to strip and dumb it down.

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The question now is, if Tommy Yune has any plan on using all these designs he made. I mean, why waste time making them if they're not gonna be used at all? They may not be the best looking designs, but at least it's a good start for HG to start making their own designs rather than just relying on Mospeada.

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The question now is, if Tommy Yune has any plan on using all these designs he made. I mean, why waste time making them if they're not gonna be used at all? They may not be the best looking designs, but at least it's a good start for HG to start making their own designs rather than just relying on Mospeada.

He draw this stuff so it looks like he's actually doing something in between convetion panels. He has to pretend to be busy so that HG will keep paying him. :p

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I may not like Tommy's character designs for anything, but the mecha designs aren't that bad. I did wonder though, why he'd draw all these designs, if only to use rehashes and the most basic, blocky looking ships later on. It's like they started with better stuff, and worked downwards.

Eh... to be honest, I think the only reason we can say that Tommy Yune's "original" mechanical designs "aren't that bad" is that the previous attempts by Naito Anmo (Robotech II: the Sentinels) and an unnamed designer at Netter Digital (Robotech 3000) were disgusting failures. Tommy's mechanical designs get a bit of slack because they're merely mediocre and derivative instead of wholly original and genuinely awful. His new designs fit well enough with MOSPEADA's original ones... but then again it's kind of hard to screw up "bland and blocky", which describes pretty much every human mecha in MOSPEADA that isn't a ride armor.

The ship doesn't look as much like it did in the movie. As stated above, I think they took a slightly better design, and decided to strip and dumb it down.

Can't say much about the design being "better" sight-unseen... but I'd wager the decision to dumb it down to the Ark Angel's present form was intended as a cost saving move. The more complicated the design, the more time it'll take to animate it... and they were supposedly already cutting corners pretty heavily on the animation process, as the finished product all too readily attests.

The question now is, if Tommy Yune has any plan on using all these designs he made. I mean, why waste time making them if they're not gonna be used at all? They may not be the best looking designs, but at least it's a good start for HG to start making their own designs rather than just relying on Mospeada.

Dunno... he might, as anime52k8 suggests, be trying to justify his continued employment to Harmony Gold. It may also have been motivated by the usual Robotech fan affliction... a crippling fear or avid dislike of things that aren't part of their heavily rose-tinted childhood memories of Robotech from the 80's.

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Sorry guys it took so long to put up the pic. I had to find the pic I downloaded long ago, and then, had issues with my scanner clipping the page. Nevertheless, here you go.

post-582-12908867751_thumb.jpg

Edited by Jasonc
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Sorry guys it took so long to put up the pic. I had to find the pic I downloaded long ago, and then, had issues with my scanner clipping the page. Nevertheless, here you go.

So, it's a chubby battle 7 with a backpack? :huh:

Nice. :lol:

Edited by anime52k8
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On the contrary, I do. It's a pic of the ship, and a pic of it transformed in a 3/4 view. Almost the same as the Gamma fighter picture. He never shows a frontal pic, but it is shown transformed. There's also some of a hoover cyclone, and Tommy's version of Showgirls in Space, AKA, JANICE and Ariola. Seeing those pics is why I laughed at Tommy's excuse for why all the girls were in skimpy clothes with big boobs. The studios were just making those characters off of his designs that he signed off on. Anyways...

On the issue of new news for Robotech, really? I mean, REALLY? Fanboys will probably say that all is moving, but even if that were the case (which really isn't), perception is everything, and if you're name isn't out there, you're product is dead.

Supposedly, the new work for the old animation is still being worked on, as well as Carl's documentary, but there's nothing new that's been announced since they first announced the "new animated series". Fans seem to be doing some stuff though, and the ones that are actually doing something very cool, I'm fortunate to be working with. Hopefully the end result will be worth the time involved.

Wait, wait, Ariola is a joke name, right?

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Sorry guys it took so long to put up the pic. I had to find the pic I downloaded long ago, and then, had issues with my scanner clipping the page. Nevertheless, here you go.

Interesting design...would have been interesting to see it developed...still don't see where the carriers are coming from :mellow:

Edited by Zor Primus
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Interesting design...would have been interesting to see it developed...still don't see where the carriers are coming from :mellow:

the arms are the secondary hull along the main gun in ship mode.

My question is, why does it need rotating colonies in the legs?

Robotech has artificial gravity and unless that ship is ginormous, those colonies would have to be spinning awfully fast in order to mimic the effects of gravity.

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Wait, wait, Ariola is a joke name, right?

Yeah, but the way they show boobs, it wouldn't surprise me if they "retcon the name". Also, J.A.N.I.C.E. should mean (Jugs and Nipple Implants Certainly Enhance).

the arms are the secondary hull along the main gun in ship mode.

My question is, why does it need rotating colonies in the legs?

Robotech has artificial gravity and unless that ship is ginormous, those colonies would have to be spinning awfully fast in order to mimic the effects of gravity.

I always wondered that myself when I first read that, but, it is concept art, and probably just brainstorming. If they did do that, you'd have to wonder why the SDF-1 was able to have artificial gravity, and newer colony ships can't.

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Looks good but, the concept of the Ark Angel transforming into a robot seems a bit flawed on a practical stand point. For starter, the transformation gives them no advantage. After looking at that picture, it looks like the synchro cannon is fixed on the back and doesn't swivel like the main cannon of the SDF-1, or detach and become a gunship. So it means that the main cannon is only useful in ship mode. In the end, it would only make the Ark Angel as a big target and put the civilians in danger.

Edited by Moly_Sigang
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Sorry guys it took so long to put up the pic. I had to find the pic I downloaded long ago, and then, had issues with my scanner clipping the page. Nevertheless, here you go.

Huh... oddly, I'm disappointed by this. I don't know why, but I was hoping that at some point Tommy would've produced something that wasn't painfully and obviously derivative... y'know, something that's actually original. This... thing... you've posted is clearly just another one of Tommy Yune's "original" works made by ripping off a design from another show, in this case it's obviously the Battle-7 from Macross 7. Honestly, I think that VM-9L Silverback jeep thing with the transformation that doesn't make sense is his only original design that's actually original: his VF-13 Gamma fighter is a transforming AF-01 Combat from Mospeada, his "new" cyclone is a slight modification of a concept piece from Mospeada, the Alpha fighter prototype in his "From the Stars" miniseries is just the Vector concept from Mospeada done up in Skull Squad colors, the Haydonite fighter is an ersatz Cylon raider from Battlestar Galactica, and the new Rick Hunter design looks for all the world like a knockoff of Hideo Kuze from Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig. Honestly, the more I see of Tommy's "original" work the more I think he has even less artistic integrity than the creators of Astro Plan.

I'll wager the reason that design ended up rejected is that they were afraid that it would give Studio Nue and Big West good reason to come after them in court.

My question is, why does it need rotating colonies in the legs?

Robotech has artificial gravity and unless that ship is ginormous, those colonies would have to be spinning awfully fast in order to mimic the effects of gravity.

Dunno... but taking the rest of the design into consideration, I would guess that he watched one of the UC-era Gundam shows shortly before drawing it.

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I'll give him a pass on the derivative mecha designs since shadow crap takes place immediately after the conclusion of the robotech series. The new stuff has to look like the old stuff as a result.

Still doesn't explain the rotating colony cylinders though... that's just stupid.

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I'll give him a pass on the derivative mecha designs since shadow crap takes place immediately after the conclusion of the robotech series. The new stuff has to look like the old stuff as a result.

Eh... personally, I wouldn't be so quick to excuse it. You could maybe excuse the "Gamma fighter" concept since he's drawing on a relatively obscure Mospeada design, and you could maybe look the other way on his recycling Mospeada concept art and passing it off as new... but Robotech left transforming battleships back in the "Macross Saga". The only reason the SDF-1 transformed in the Macross Saga was out of necessity, and none of the ships that came after showed any kind of transformation capability. The ONLY explanation for this sudden return to having transforming warships is to ape Macross. The reasons for doing so are fairly obvious... but in hindsight it's kind of funny how Robotech's current creative team is both busily denigrating, and seeking to imitate, Macross.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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I agree with Seto, only in the Macross portion of Robotech had a transforming battle cruiser. And only because it was the only way to fire a main Cannon. And was never continued after that. And looking at the designs for the ArchAngel in Battiliod mode it looked like a poor man's SDF-1. And only a concept idea. Which from the looks of it never took off.

I just recently went through the Shadow Chronicles Art Book. An most of the designs for the Robotech Force were rehashes of the designs used for Mosepeada. And for the Super Alpha fighter. There were no pictured of it in battliod mode. And it looks so much like a super Valkirye armour.

But in essicance HG hangs on the macross portion as it was the most popular. And really the only successful toys they have made are the Zentradi Battle Pods as no other company has made any at all. And fans want these to pose next to their valk's.

But yes I would say the concept came when they saw the popularity of Macross and their transformable battle ships, and wanted to show it was there concept to.

But alas we will still have to wait along time for anything from HG, as all they do is promise and have nothing to show as a "product" for the future of Robotech. Shadow chronicles could of been a stepping stone to something new. But to no avail. I though it might of been a start to a new series (Like Star Wars - The Clone Wars did). But nothing has happened.

Robotech has ground to a halt, and the eger fans wanting more. But that won't happen for a long long time.

Thats my 2 cents worth anyway

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Eh... personally, I wouldn't be so quick to excuse it. You could maybe excuse the "Gamma fighter" concept since he's drawing on a relatively obscure Mospeada design, and you could maybe look the other way on his recycling Mospeada concept art and passing it off as new... but Robotech left transforming battleships back in the "Macross Saga". The only reason the SDF-1 transformed in the Macross Saga was out of necessity, and none of the ships that came after showed any kind of transformation capability. The ONLY explanation for this sudden return to having transforming warships is to ape Macross. The reasons for doing so are fairly obvious... but in hindsight it's kind of funny how Robotech's current creative team is both busily denigrating, and seeking to imitate, Macross.

errr... I meant only in the context of the show. Just that it takes place after the last act of robotech so that I don't expect the mecha to look different.

In the grander sense of where the franchise is and what they're doing with it, I agree with you completely.

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I really don't know how some of you see a Macross 7 design in that. Reminds me of something out of the reimaged Battlestar Galactica. Battle 7 looks like and is a carrier. That thing looks like Galactica's silhouette with flight pods retracted.

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I agree with Seto, only in the Macross portion of Robotech had a transforming battle cruiser. [...] looking at the designs for the ArchAngel in Battiliod mode it looked like a poor man's SDF-1. [...]

Precisely... for as long as there have been Robotech sequels, the people in charge of Robotech's ongoing story have relied on increasingly tenuous connections to Macross to keep the fans interested. Even though the final version of Robotech: the Movie was made using Megazone 23 and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, both the original and final versions of the film's story ultimately revolved around Macross. Robotech II: the Sentinels was even more blatant about it, selling itself as the continuing adventures of the surviving Macross cast.

The one thing that hasn't changed about Robotech in 25+ years, other than the absence of progress with the story, is that Robotech still relies on Macross tie-ins to sell itself. Far and away the biggest bullet point in all of their hype about the Shadow Chronicles story arc was that they were going to finally reveal what happened to the surviving Macross cast. Between all the changes Tommy made to the Robotech continuity and setting, and faux-Macross designs like the Super Shadow Fighter and transforming Ark Angel concept, it should be easy for anyone to see what he's doing... Tommy's trying to make Robotech as much like Macross as he can to make it and his Mospeada-based Robotech continuation more palatable.

I just recently went through the Shadow Chronicles Art Book. An most of the designs for the Robotech Force were rehashes of the designs used for Mosepeada. And for the Super Alpha fighter. There were no pictured of it in battliod mode. And it looks so much like a super Valkirye armour.

Exactly... the new "Super Cyclone" is just a slightly tweaked version of a piece of Mospeada concept art you can find in the Imai Files, and the "Super Shadow Fighter" is just an ordinary AFC-01 Dark Legioss equipped with a set of faux-Macross super parts modeled on the VF-1's. There is actually a picture of it in "battloid" mode in the book (pg.85), but it's one that was originally printed elsewhere and was shrunk down to the size of a postage stamp for the official art book.

But alas we will still have to wait along time for anything from HG, as all they do is promise and have nothing to show as a "product" for the future of Robotech. Shadow chronicles could of been a stepping stone to something new. But to no avail. I though it might of been a start to a new series (Like Star Wars - The Clone Wars did). But nothing has happened.

That's hardly a new circumstance... it took them over 20 years to get a viable Robotech sequel released in the Americas, and even then it was scorned by many fans and ignored by everyone else. The blame always lies in someone else when they screw up. The failure of Robotech: the Movie was blamed on everything from the way the distributor said it needed more action to the release of Transformers: the Movie. After Sentinels tanked, no mention was made of the many problems with the production had, and it was all blamed on the exchange rate and Matchbox suddenly getting cold feet. Robotech 3000 tanked and it was blamed on Netter Digital... with no mention of the way the fans almost universally hating the teaser trailer. Now it's Warner getting the blame for the lack of forward motion on Shadow Rising, even though it was Harmony Gold's decision to suspend work on Shadow Rising while they wait for the LAM and pray that it lands them better sponsorship deals.

Untold Story, Sentinels, Robotech 3000, and Shadow Chronicles prove one thing... Harmony Gold doesn't have a clue how to make an animated continuation of Robotech. The only thing they're good at is milking the licenses they have for expensive, low-quality toys and low-quality, limited edition comics.

errr... I meant only in the context of the show. Just that it takes place after the last act of robotech so that I don't expect the mecha to look different.

In the grander sense of where the franchise is and what they're doing with it, I agree with you completely.

Understandable enough... I don't blame them for using the "Alpha fighter" and whatnot in Shadow Chronicles, I just wish they'd made an effort to be original with the new designs they were introducing instead of recycling Mospeada concept art and knockoffs of Macross designs as new material.

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Is this from the RPG?

No... it's another piece of rejected concept art from the Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles movie, like the "VF-13 Gamma Fighter". Like the Gamma fighter, it doesn't appear in The Art of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles either...

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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Is this from the RPG?

I had one of Tommy's good fan buddys link me to it several years ago, supposedly, he got it from Tommy, which I believe considering they're best friends and all. Anyways, he posted up some of those images in some rapidshare file or something like that, and I downloaded them. Later, they were taken down when someone at HG made a big stink about them popping up (speculating, or maybe I just wrote the wrong link down). I think there's just a few people that have all the images that were on that file. No one ever told HG who the person was that put it up, although it'd make for some unnecessary drama in their camp.

On the appearance of the Ark Angel, I don't think it looks like battle 7 at all. Battle 7's top deck looks a bit more like an aircraft carrier, and looks like a space warship. This resembles more of a MOSPEADA design, of course with the Macross idea of the transforming ship.

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Ohhh my God!

That artwork just confirmed my worst suspicion! Before RTSC ever seen fruition back in early 2000s, a discussion took place at RDF-HQ about unfounded rumors that HG would like to shoe-horn Macross 7 (with significant edits, making Gamlin as central character as opposed to Basara) into new animated RT sequel. A scuttle-butt told me that atleast one pre-lim character design (Alex Romero?) closely resembled that of Gamlin.

Could it be that the original premise of RTSC is that of a bridging OAV to link both RT-verse & Macross 7?

As for me, seeing that transforming Ark-Angel with similarity (at least superficially) to Battle 7 seems to bear out the theories .... that HG may want to shoe-horn another Macross successful sequels into its stale RT stable .... atleast before the Big West vs Tatsunoko legal fiasco started.

Thank God the BW vs Tats case finally put a deathknell to HG's wish.

BTW JasonC .... do you have any other pre-production images from the same file to share with us?

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On the appearance of the Ark Angel, I don't think it looks like battle 7 at all. Battle 7's top deck looks a bit more like an aircraft carrier, and looks like a space warship. This resembles more of a MOSPEADA design, of course with the Macross idea of the transforming ship.

Granted, this transforming Ark Angel concept is a good deal boxier than the Battle-7... as one would expect of a design that attempts to blend into the boxy bland-a-thon of Genesis Climber MOSPEADA starship designs. It's an odd resemblance, but there's definitely some Battle-7 to be found in the ship's arms (particularly in the shoulder and hand) and a fair bit of the Macross-class to be found in the rest of it. Either way, there's no denying the Ark Angel concept is definitely an attempt to make Robotech's New Generation less of a bore by making it more like Macross.

Before RTSC ever seen fruition back in early 2000s, a discussion took place at RDF-HQ about unfounded rumors that HG would like to shoe-horn Macross 7 (with significant edits, making Gamlin as central character as opposed to Basara) into new animated RT sequel. A scuttle-butt told me that atleast one pre-lim character design (Alex Romero?) closely resembled that of Gamlin.

Unless the source of that rumor has access to some character concept art from Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles that never got published, I don't think there's any basis for that. Just for yuks, I dug out my copy of The Art of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles and had a look at the concept art for the characters. On examination, I feel fairly confident in saying that there's no concept art there that bears even a passing resemblance to our man Gamlin.

The preliminary sketch for Scott Bernard was the closest to Gamlin's appearance, but it still looks infinitely more like a Rob Liefeld sketch of Stick Bernard with bedhead and an anatomically improbable body. There's no way it was Alex Romero, since his preliminary sketch was a big fat guy with a flattop. Marcus Rush's prelim. art looks like he watched Star Wars and decided he desperately needed to have Luke Skywalker's hairdo. Maia Sterling has purple hair, but that's about as close as you'll get... and I'm pretty sure Gamlin wasn't a D-cup.

Could it be that the original premise of RTSC is that of a bridging OAV to link both RT-verse & Macross 7?

No, I don't think so... by the time Harmony Gold announced the existence of what was then known as Robotech 2004, the most important parts of the legal dispute had already been ruled on and the dispute itself was nearly five years old. They had to have known, going into it, that the rest of Macross was beyond their reach. I doubt they would've planned for that, when to pull it off they would need the cooperation of a company they'd already severely pissed off by starting the whole legal battle with their jackassery.

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