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Macross Frontier Series Discussion Thread *READ 1st Post*


azrael
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  1. 1. Overall, How would you rate "Macross Frontier"

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They were called NUN or NUNG to begin with after Space War 1. The name change from UN Spacy to New UN Spacy implies reforms from the original organization. (They didn't change it after Space War 1.)

In Macross 7 military fleet commanders were answerable to UN Spacy Earth HQ. In Macross Frontier the admiral was answerable to the local state President.

As I stated above there were too many frak-ups from the military organization to be ignored.

Wilbur Garland's treason could have been the final straw towards a shorter leash for the military by the NUNG.

That's why PMC outfits like SMS are hired. At least theoretically they do as they are told as stated in the contract. (Not that it did a lot a good for Leon as Bilrer warned Mr. Pirate Jeffrey Wilder as a last hidden frak you that they are becoming government owned. )

So...um, are you saying that your theory is right, and Kawamori's is wrong...?

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So...um, are you saying that your theory is right, and Kawamori's is wrong...?

Actually he answered there is no longer a central government like in SDFM.

That was the whole point of the Unification War. It was back to the original UN assembly set-up.

In Macross 7 you get the feeling fleet military still answers to Earth HQ.

Ivane Gyunter was some bigshot Advisor backed by Earth for the Varauta research expedition. Stupid Earth based admirals orders Macross 7 to attack the greater military forces of the Protodevlin and Chlore's fleet.

In Macross Frontier the local NUNS answers to the fleet government. Enough changes that Reaction weapons use will have to go through the fleet president not Earth HQ again.

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http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=29229

The UN didn't exactly break down. Kawamori says that UN adapted itself into NUN as the universe got bigger for humans. Controlling hundreds of worlds (and fleets) from Earth isn't feasible anymore given the distance between the colonies and Earth. It wasn't a a coup, but the human world realigning itself to the galaxy at large. You can't govern a new world from afar. In essence, it became much like our modern UN. Colonies are members of the NUN, but they are free to govern their own worlds as they wish.

Oh, that's a good bit of trivia that I had forgotten. I'm going to add this to the Macrosspedia and source it. Thanks for the reminder.

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http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=29229

The UN didn't exactly break down. Kawamori says that UN adapted itself into NUN as the universe got bigger for humans. Controlling hundreds of worlds (and fleets) from Earth isn't feasible anymore given the distance between the colonies and Earth. It wasn't a a coup, but the human world realigning itself to the galaxy at large. You can't govern a new world from afar. In essence, it became much like our modern UN. Colonies are members of the NUN, but they are free to govern their own worlds as they wish.

That would make sense for humanity to grow beyond Sol and into the galaxy. It essentialy keeps the idea of a unified race which is what UN Spacy is supposed to represent. It also allows for the inevitable failure of any utopia because at some point greed, evil or any other negative influence that humanity tends to turn to manifest itself.

Thanks for the explanation of NUNS...seems like I have to watch Macross 7 again...

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For that matter, from Kawamori's statements it sounds like by the 2050s the fleets have expanded far enough that you can't even have swift communications with most of human space any more - it's hard to have a strongly unified modern government without that. It's not even really like a modern UN situation: if the whole world consented to one rule today you could send orders and get reports anywhere in the world swiftly...even were it a place deep in the jungle you'd just have to send someone with a satellite phone then you'd be able to maintain an instant link. For the UN in 2059 to hold a galaxy-wide government would be like trying to rule a unified world in the 18th century, where it your news from far places could be weeks or months old, and then just as long to respond to it, much less send aid or resources where needed. This is the reason why those who would want the whole galaxy under one hand are so interested in fold quartz technology, even without wanting to turn it into one collective brain like Grace and company.

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I believe the phrasing was along the lines of "it's like the age of exploration with e-mail".

Or to put it in other words, it'd be like Colombus heading West across the Atlantic but sending and receiving e-mail.

Given that the Frontier Fleet is a good 10 or more years space fold travel away from Earth, it makes sense that the organization of the UN/NUN and it's relationship with colonies and emigration fleets has changed.

Of course, in the same article, Kawamori-san went on to mention what I believe means that the new super fold booster will be used to alter the situation again - consider the super fold booster akin to the effect of steam ships in the age of exploration - travel times reduced significantly (a 6 to 12 month journey being reduced to a mere month or so), and you get a fundamental change once more.

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I believe the phrasing was along the lines of "it's like the age of exploration with e-mail".

Or to put it in other words, it'd be like Colombus heading West across the Atlantic but sending and receiving e-mail.

Given that the Frontier Fleet is a good 10 or more years space fold travel away from Earth, it makes sense that the organization of the UN/NUN and it's relationship with colonies and emigration fleets has changed.

Of course, in the same article, Kawamori-san went on to mention what I believe means that the new super fold booster will be used to alter the situation again - consider the super fold booster akin to the effect of steam ships in the age of exploration - travel times reduced significantly (a 6 to 12 month journey being reduced to a mere month or so), and you get a fundamental change once more.

Evil intentions aside, Grace's plan was to unite the galaxy did have it's merits. Instantaneous communication would have been possible under the plan.

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True, true. But the gist I got from the translated article was more the implied changes from the super fold booster.

Mind you, even without the use of the Vajra, the super fold technology would allow for some pretty quick communication across the galaxy. (I'm basing this on what we've been shown in the series (M7?) re: how much quicker fold based communications is compared to fold travel time).

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Now what could be the next logical evolution of macross? Many colonized worlds by humans. Some that want more than others. Alliances, fear on part by more peaceful colonies. New mecha, intergalactic wars, odd alliances.... HHmmmm could be good.

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Sorry if this is old news: The latest issue of the Macross Chronicle confirms that Richard Bilrer's motivation to set up the galaxy network thing using fold quartz WAS after all, to track down and meet Minmay.

Basically everything that happened, did because an aging fanboy wanted an autograph!

(It did look like that was the implication in the show, but it came out of nowhere and was never explicitly stated until now).

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Sorry if this is old news: The latest issue of the Macross Chronicle confirms that Richard Bilrer's motivation to set up the galaxy network thing using fold quartz WAS after all, to track down and meet Minmay.

Basically everything that happened, did because an aging fanboy wanted an autograph!

(It did look like that was the implication in the show, but it came out of nowhere and was never explicitly stated until now).

Well if his ambition drove him to be the most successful transport businessman in Macross I don't know whether to be happy or sad for him.

Safe to say Macross Galaxy and Luca of LAI totally couldn't read the motivations of the old coot.

Gadget Chiba , who likely wasn't born yet in Space War 1, pushed culture shock and song research beyond the boundaries because of his belief in Minmay.

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Sorry if this is old news: The latest issue of the Macross Chronicle confirms that Richard Bilrer's motivation to set up the galaxy network thing using fold quartz WAS after all, to track down and meet Minmay.

Basically everything that happened, did because an aging fanboy wanted an autograph!

(It did look like that was the implication in the show, but it came out of nowhere and was never explicitly stated until now).

So the latest issue of Macross Chronicle basically confirms that the whereabouts of Minmay are indeed currently unknown? interesting...

now i really don't know what to believe... :wacko:

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Sorry if this is old news: The latest issue of the Macross Chronicle confirms that Richard Bilrer's motivation to set up the galaxy network thing using fold quartz WAS after all, to track down and meet Minmay.

Basically everything that happened, did because an aging fanboy wanted an autograph!

(It did look like that was the implication in the show, but it came out of nowhere and was never explicitly stated until now).

Well, you would think a guy of his age would be over his fanboy-crush with that idol. Let's just say I don't see too many 65+ year-old people going after Patti Page for an autograph, unless you're a stalker :blink: .

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Dreamweaver13: What do you mean, I never read anything pointing to the contrary?

Azrael: Maybe it's Kawamori's way of telling people not to forget about Macross even after they're old and grey, because they know this is the last generation they can market to...

Edited by Renato
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Sorry if this is old news: The latest issue of the Macross Chronicle confirms that Richard Bilrer's motivation to set up the galaxy network thing using fold quartz WAS after all, to track down and meet Minmay.

Basically everything that happened, did because an aging fanboy wanted an autograph!

(It did look like that was the implication in the show, but it came out of nowhere and was never explicitly stated until now).

Interesting. That supports my theory that Birla was meant to be a representation of old school Macross fans.

Edited by Mr March
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Well, you would think a guy of his age would be over his fanboy-crush with that idol. Let's just say I don't see too many 65+ year-old people going after Patti Page for an autograph, unless you're a stalker :blink: .

Hmmm...I remember during alumni weekend at my old college (while I was attending) some old guys saw my friend Leslie and shouted, "LANA TURNER! It's LANA TURNER!"

...almost scared the wits out of the poor girl...

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Dreamweaver13: What do you mean, I never read anything pointing to the contrary?

A little discussion we had a while back in another thread where we sorta realized that the "megaroad got lost somewhere in the middle of the galaxy" may have been just a "what-if" scenario in a mail-in gift for an old video game. And also, the disappearance of the megaroad sorta conflicted with a timeline/picture which shows Misa and Miku Ichijo visiting with the Jenius couple or children.

here's the thread: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry640267

and the link to the compendium entry: http://macross.anime.net//feedback/index.html

Which could all mean that SK never really said anything about the megaroad disappearaing. but then again... only "God Knows". hehe.

Edited by dreamweaver13
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A little discussion we had a while back in another thread where we sorta realized that the "megaroad got lost somewhere in the middle of the galaxy" may have been just a "what-if" scenario in a mail-in gift for an old video game. And also, the disappearance of the megaroad sorta conflicted with a timeline entry which shows Misa and Miku Ichijo visiting with the Jenius couple.

here's the thread: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry640267

Which could all mean that SK never really said anything about the megaroad disappearaing. but then again... only "God Knows". hehe.

Nah...both the Megaroad-01 page and the most recent Timeline sheet confrim that the Megaroad-01 ceased transmissions near the center of the galaxy in 2016, but UN Spacy hushed it up.

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I know this is all late and wrong but I give it a 9. I just finished the series.

I went into this show thinking I was gonna hate it. Boy was I wrong. Im not going to break it down into categories. But the animation was great. The story was good. The japanese "actors" sounded right. But I do wish it was a little longer.

Oh and I really didnt like the music until about half way through then it really grew on me.

I hope they do another series. Ill wait ten years as long as its good.

ps Im so glad I didnt quit getting back into this stuff after I watched the shadow chronicles.

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Well, I just finished watching Frontier for a second time. Watched it pretty much straight through.... Here are my "second-time" impressions:

1. The plot is now far more clear when you watch it a second time around, in terms of motivations and connections, but there are also some grey areas that emerge:

a) Leon.

I guess he was after power the whole time, although it seems he also sincerely was after glory - since, if he succeeded in defeating the Vajra and taking charge of the planet, then he would be glorified as a kind of founder of a new planet. However, was he even aware of Grace's plan? He clearly had no clue WHO Grace really was - or rather what Grace really was - which we know because he figured that sending a bunch of guys with guns to kill her was sufficient to get rid of her...

b) "Small favor that bullets work on them..."

This is actually a tad ridiculous and confounding. In the episode that Michael gets killed in, we see Alto, Luca and Michael fending off the Vajra with machines guns. The same Vajra that could survive nuclear bombs, as we saw one episode prior when reactive weapons stopped working against them...

Now - is this because the Vajra Michael and the gang are fighting a NEW swarm? Therefore - they haven't managed to super-evolve a defense against machine guns? On the surface, this sounds plausable - but Leon ventured the theory that the Vajra are all inter-linked and inseperable and that experience of a solitary member is communicated immediately to the remaining ones and super-evolution adapts them to conditions in order to help them survive...So... did these "new" Vajra not get the message?

Can we therefore presume that this communicative-hive only exists in real time? That is to say - there is no "memory storage system" that is unputed into new Vajra that are just hatching? There is no - to borrow from Beast Wars Transformers - "Vajra chip" that brings a new member "up to speed"

Does this therefore mean that "new" Vajra need to evolve "all over again?" And can't they some how interface with existing Vajra to "download" relevent history?

Or could it be that- contrary to Leon's "swarm" theory about them - the Vajra are actually somewhat capable of individual action - or at the very least we could posit that there are distinct and seperate Vajra swarms with distinct histories?

Finally - I would think it would have to be that there are distinct swarms since Aimo is a love song that Vajra sing to call other Vajra to make love to them and procreate.

c) About that love song...

Alto says that humans are "alone" which Grace considers to be their damning feature and something that needs to be overcome by becoming Super Dimensional Creatures - but Alto quickly adds that it is being alone that allows people to want to find some one to love - and that rather than being a Super Dimmensional God - it's better to find a girlfriend (basically that's his argument).

But - since Vajra sing love songs, they too are "alone" insofar as they are not fully fulfilled without another - and even if it is "mere" biology - well - as Ranka says- Vajra have feelings too - they just communicate differently... but essentially - they are calling out for a mate with their love song and therefore are more like humans in being alone and needing love.

D) About that Grace...

What exactly is "she?" What is "we?" Did a bunch of scientists in Galaxy encode their personalities onto computers? Did their bodies all burn leaving only their minds on an AI system? ARE they an A.I. system? I'm not very clear on who "they" are ? And 'WHERE' they are.

Concievably - the corporate headquarters would not put their CEOs in such danger nor would ALL of them have gotten melted and transfered onto a computer program. I would imagine that "we" are scattered Corporate officers throughout the galaxy who just happen to work through the artificial humanoid that is Grace. Perhaps the "real" Grace O'Conor is in there somewhere as well- but most likely only her hatred of the Vajra and lust to surpass the Protoculture are there?

In any event - who is she?

Finally - who was Sheryl's father? Who did Mao end up being with?

Could it be possible that she agreed to help Grace with the project because, kind of like Bilar dreamed of finding Minmey, so Mao dreamed of finding Shin?

Pete

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D) About that Grace...

What exactly is "she?" What is "we?" Did a bunch of scientists in Galaxy encode their personalities onto computers? Did their bodies all burn leaving only their minds on an AI system? ARE they an A.I. system? I'm not very clear on who "they" are ? And 'WHERE' they are.

Concievably - the corporate headquarters would not put their CEOs in such danger nor would ALL of them have gotten melted and transfered onto a computer program. I would imagine that "we" are scattered Corporate officers throughout the galaxy who just happen to work through the artificial humanoid that is Grace. Perhaps the "real" Grace O'Conor is in there somewhere as well- but most likely only her hatred of the Vajra and lust to surpass the Protoculture are there?

In any event - who is she?

Finally - who was Sheryl's father? Who did Mao end up being with?

Could it be possible that she agreed to help Grace with the project because, kind of like Bilar dreamed of finding Minmey, so Mao dreamed of finding Shin?

Pete

Mind you some novel info I got wind off at Animesuki.

Originally Grace was girl who grew up on the Global. She even had a relationship with Ranshe's husband. Grace considers Mao like a mother.

But Ranshe aside from marrying the man she loves is more favored by Mao than Grace.

That is where the hate for Brera, Ranka and Sheryl come from.

The CEO's of Macross Galaxy itself seem seedy and corrupt enough but whatever plans they had got a major change when Grace joined them.

The technologies in the aftermath of Macross Plus that may be taboo they further developed.

You are correct the CEOs of Macross Galaxy wouldn't risk themselves. Thus the absence of Galaxy Mainland during the final battle.

According to the MF Novelization Grace's real body is at Macross Galaxy.

Macross Galaxy fleet is still out there.

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Mind you some novel info I got wind off at Animesuki.

Originally Grace was girl who grew up on the Global. She even had a relationship with Ranshe's husband. Grace considers Mao like a mother.

But Ranshe aside from marrying the man she loves is more favored by Mao than Grace.

That is where the hate for Brera, Ranka and Sheryl come from.

The CEO's of Macross Galaxy itself seem seedy and corrupt enough but whatever plans they had got a major change when Grace joined them.

The technologies in the aftermath of Macross Plus that may be taboo they further developed.

You are correct the CEOs of Macross Galaxy wouldn't risk themselves. Thus the absence of Galaxy Mainland during the final battle.

According to the MF Novelization Grace's real body is at Macross Galaxy.

Macross Galaxy fleet is still out there.

How sure are you of that info? Who read the novels?

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I thought that by "novel info" he meant "new info" not "info from the novels" ... ? :)

Pete

Well, then he goes on to mention the "MF Novelization."

At this point, I'm wary of any information that comes from Animesuki that says, "In the novels, it's like this..." since it looks like the last time that happend, the info wasn't accurate.

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I haven't started watching Frontier yet, but I was flipping through the Mecha Manual and noticed something about the destroids.....is it me, or do they look like destroids from Macross Zero? I know it's supposed to be a redesign of the original UN era war destroid, but it seems a little silly to go retro for millitary applications. Cars I can understand...for marketing purposes.

When was the last time you saw a modern military aircraft resemble a bi-plane?

Edited by peter
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b) "Small favor that bullets work on them..."

This is actually a tad ridiculous and confounding. In the episode that Michael gets killed in, we see Alto, Luca and Michael fending off the Vajra with machines guns. The same Vajra that could survive nuclear bombs, as we saw one episode prior when reactive weapons stopped working against them...

Now - is this because the Vajra Michael and the gang are fighting a NEW swarm? Therefore - they haven't managed to super-evolve a defense against machine guns? On the surface, this sounds plausable - but Leon ventured the theory that the Vajra are all inter-linked and inseperable and that experience of a solitary member is communicated immediately to the remaining ones and super-evolution adapts them to conditions in order to help them survive...So... did these "new" Vajra not get the message?

Can we therefore presume that this communicative-hive only exists in real time? That is to say - there is no "memory storage system" that is unputed into new Vajra that are just hatching? There is no - to borrow from Beast Wars Transformers - "Vajra chip" that brings a new member "up to speed"

Does this therefore mean that "new" Vajra need to evolve "all over again?" And can't they some how interface with existing Vajra to "download" relevent history?

Or could it be that- contrary to Leon's "swarm" theory about them - the Vajra are actually somewhat capable of individual action - or at the very least we could posit that there are distinct and seperate Vajra swarms with distinct histories?

Finally - I would think it would have to be that there are distinct swarms since Aimo is a love song that Vajra sing to call other Vajra to make love to them and procreate.

Pete

Well for this part, I think the inference made was that the larval form of the Varja didn't have the armour/protection of the fully adult Varja and hence was still vulnerable to small arms fire.

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As near as I can tell the immunities only develop in the big red Vajra, rather than the smaller ones.

In addition, there are a couple other potential points:

In space, unless you're really on top of it a nuclear weapon is just a radiation pulse, with no physical shockwave and fireball like it would be in atmosphere. While it can certainly damage electronics and kill unprotected organisms through radiation poisoning, it only would destroy physical objects through massive overheating or somesuch. Assuming this level of physics applies in Macross, the ablative coating Vajra used against reaction weaponry would make sense, but on the other hand might not be any more use against bullets than their normal armor. Even if the Vajra so struck die later of radiation poisoning, so long as they can continue the battle right now their use to the hive has not been diminished. As a result, bullets used on Vajra types that survived nearby reaction weapons in an earlier episode still wouldn't be ridiculous.

Building from this in general, it's entirely possible that developing increased resistance to one attack type might diminish resistance to other attack types (say, to keep from bulking up, an anti-radiation coating would diminish the thickness of their armor against bullets, armor that stops bullets better might be less resistant to a PPB-covered knife cutting it, etc.) and against an enemy the hive will send Vajra that are strong against that enemy's known attacks. You can forestall this by switching attack types a lot, but the more the hive under the intelligent direction of its queen learns about you the better it will be able to optimize its soldiers to have the best possible combinations and tactics against your particular arsenal. This makes them a really fearsome enemy but explains why they haven't already evolved total immunity to kinetic projectiles, radiation, and everything else that's a pretty common danger in the universe at large.

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Now that's a really interesting point there Killer Robot. I mean - you're right - there's no oxygen to burn in space... so what would explosions in general look like?

Pete

Well, there might be an initial flash, but explosions in space (indeed, most military explosions even within atmosphere) would have a much lower visual signature, not to mention that there wouldn't be a loud boom :p

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