Macross Frontier Episode 8 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Wes]

I didn't see it as a waste at all. More good setup for a relationship between Alto & Sheryl. Hell, the more screen time she gets, the more I like Sheryl, at at this piont, hope she's the girl Alto ends up with. It'd be nice if they did a Sheryl suedo retire/hang out with Alto, as Ranka gears up to go on tour & be the next big idol type deal.

When does the signer EVER get the main character in Macross?! Only like in Plus because she was the chooser. Nanase has better odds.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Wes

[junior]

When does the signer EVER get the main character in Macross?! Only like in Plus because she was the chooser.

The fact that both of the female members of the triangle are singers improve the odds somewhat in favor of a singer this time.

At this point, I suspect that one of the two girls will succeed at business while the other succeeds with Alto (which means that if Sheryl gets Alto, she'll probably step out of the limelight and let Ranka exceed Sheryl's popularity; I'm not saying that either girl will quit singing). Right now, Ranka has friends and wants to be a singing superstar. Sheryl is a singing superstar and wants to have friends (real friends; not just employees like Grace, mindless sycophantic leeches, or people who are too bedazzled by her stardom to act normally around her). We'll see what happens...

[ma2ha3]

I don't know where you get this idea. The only Vajra that Brera destroyed were shot up before Altoh entered the Vajra ship. And Brera didn't help Altoh at all. He hid until Altoh started to act to free Luca, and then destroyed the gunpod that Altoh was using. Brera didn't do a single thing to help Altoh or Luca, and the scene suggests that he actually acted to keep Altoh and Luca from escaping.

"Not shooting Altoh while Altoh fights the Vajra" does not equal "Helped Altoh".

We don't know why the two ships left the Galaxy fleet. It's too early to start threatening horrible punishments since we don't know why they were on their own. It's entirely possible that the Galaxy fleet realized that a message would have trouble getting through due to the fold distortion (Grace mentions that she's surprised that Frontier is able to keep a real time link to the battle in episode 7, which suggests that its comm gear is better than Galaxy's; and if Frontier had trouble getting the message from Galaxy, then it's possible that Galaxy doesn't think that the distress call was received), and ordered the two ships to go for help.

It's also possible that the command crew was killed in the fighting. Leon mentions that it was odd that the Dulfim left at the start of the fight, which suggests that he doesn't know why it departed. That's the sort of answer that the Captain should be able to answer. It's possible that crew casualties included the command crew of the ship, and command devolved to a lower ranking officer working from an auxiliary control station.

My thought was that Leon just wanted an excuse to keep the crew of the Dulfim sequestered and unavailable for anyone who might have questions for them. It's clear that Leon's slimy and in up to his eyeballs in whatever is going on. If he thinks that there's a possibility that a member of the Dulfim's crew knows something critical, then it would be in his best interests to keep the crew away from anyone and everyone who could interfere with whatever he's doing. So until he knows for certain, the Dulfim will stay quarantined. And if anyone DOES know anything, then that individual will just happen to end up flagged as infected...

That doesn't mean that there isn't actually an infection threat, of course.

did you watch esp 7?

alto walk stealthly pass a door, then he saw like 3 death small varja.

he said, they maybe killing themselves, then he said NO

because he saw a hole in the mothership, the one he did not made

who else made that hole, it is none other than brera

and brera killed the 3 small varja, before alto turn up

now we already establish the fact that brera is in UN spacy in galaxy

because you can see that he fold out with two green un spacy fighter of same class

and he show up in frontier island 1, with his green pet

you can therefore said that he help alto, what reason? probably it is not a good idea to shoot veins attach to mothership.

there will be no justification for duflim to leave so soon, they cannot even tell what happen to galaxy main island/ship.

it is a simple question. did you see any ship leaving from frontier during esp 1 attack? you stay with your flag ship, at least wait til flag ship is destroy before you run for your life.

Edited May 27, 2008 by ma2ha3

[tankf77]

did you watch esp 7?

alto walk stealthly pass a door, then he saw like 3 death small varja.

he said, they maybe killing themselves, then he said NO

because he saw a hole in the mothership, the one he did not made

who else made that hole, it is none other than brera

and brera killed the 3 small varja, before alto turn up

now we know establish the fact that brera is in UN spacy in galaxy

because he can see that he fold out with two green un spacy fighter of same class

and he show up in frontier island 1, with his green pet

you can therefore said that he help alto, what reason, probably it is not a good idea to shoot veins attach to mothership.

there will be no justification for duflim to leave so soon, they cannot even tell what happen to galaxy main island/ship.

it is a simple question. did you see any ship leaving from frontier during esp 1 attack? you stay with your flag ship, at least wait til flag ship is destroy before you run for your life.

Well, that's plausible......in any case, I think his main task is probably data collection, perhaps he is interested in the data of fold reactor as well? If he indeed wanted both Luca and Alto to die, he would have done. I think the earlier threads discussed this already.

[junior]

did you watch esp 7?

alto walk stealthly pass a door, then he saw like 3 death small varja.

he said, they maybe killing themselves, then he said NO

because he saw a hole in the mothership, the one he did not made

who else made that hole, it is none other than brera

and brera killed the 3 small varja, before alto turn up

And so...?

Brera killed them because they were in Brera's way. The clearest indication that Brera had zero interest in helping Alto is what he did when Alto finally ended up in the same room as Brera. Brera hid. And he watched without doing anything while Alto struggled with two more Vajra (which ended up costing Alto his fighter). And then he blew up the gunpod that Alto was using. Brera could have had Luca free before Alto even arrived. Instead, he left Luca trapped and hid himself.

You're reading far too much into the fact that Brera shot up a couple of Vajra that got in his way. And you're completely ignoring Brera's actions throughout the remainder of the episode.

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

If Brera had truly been interested in helping Alto, he could have been much more pro-active about it.

there will be no justification for duflim to leave so soon,

And if they were ordered to leave? Is there still no justification? I've provided rationales that fit with what we know. It's too early to start shrieking, "There is no justification! Shoot the deserters and reduce their bodies into useful biological components!"

it is a simple question. did you see any ship leaving from frontier during esp 1 attack? you stay with your flag ship, at least wait til flag ship is destroy before you run for your life.

The attack on Frontier in episode 1 was fairly light (despite the complete inability of the VF-171 fighters to handle it). Even the small Vajra detachment sent to catch the Dulfim and Kaitos (and presumeably that was only a small part of the much larger Vajra fleet that attacked Galaxy) was significantly bigger than the Vajra force in episode 1. There was no need for Frontier to send ships off for any reason. Frontier didn't even bother to transmit a distress signal, which demonstrates how small the Vajra attack in episode 1 was. Trying to draw parallels between what happened in episode 1 and the attack on the Galaxy Fleet is pointless since there's nothing in common between the two events.

What we know is that Dulfim and Kaitos left the fleet at the start of the fight. We do NOT, however, know why. We can make guesses, but it's far too early to say with any certainty exactly what happened. They could have been sent for help (since the fold distortions were screwing up long range communications). Or they could have been ordered to draw off Vajra forces (which may have worked if the Vajra sent a disproportionately large force after them) by making a run to safety. Or any other number of reasons why they may have been ordered to fold out when the Vajra attacked the fleet.

In my opinion, it's noteable that Leon never actually states that the Dulfim and Kaitos deserted. He merely mentions that they left right as the Vajra attacked.

[ma2ha3]

In my opinion, it's noteable that Leon never actually states that the Dulfim and Kaitos deserted. He merely mentions that they left right as the Vajra attacked.

right as vajra attack is the key words

if it smell like desertion

it is desertion

Shoot brera and the rest at dawn.

[dreamweaver13]

Nanase has better odds.

of getting ranka?

[tankf77]

The attack on Frontier in episode 1 was fairly light (despite the complete inability of the VF-171 fighters to handle it). Even the small Vajra detachment sent to catch the Dulfim and Kaitos (and presumeably that was only a small part of the much larger Vajra fleet that attacked Galaxy) was significantly bigger than the Vajra force in episode 1. There was no need for Frontier to send ships off for any reason. Frontier didn't even bother to transmit a distress signal, which demonstrates how small the Vajra attack in episode 1 was. Trying to draw parallels between what happened in episode 1 and the attack on the Galaxy Fleet is pointless since there's nothing in common between the two events.

Did anyone notice in Ep. 6 when SMS were heading out for the rescue mission, they loaded anti-ESS/ECA munitions? I wondered why isn't this munition standard in the first place? Even if they encounter rogue Zentran/Meltran fleets, their mecha is presumed to have ECA as well, right?

Is that the reason why the VF-171 faired badly in the opening episodes?

[ssfsx17]

of getting ranka?

Yeah man, look at the way they were holding hands and stuff!

[dreamweaver13]

Yeah man, look at the way they were holding hands and stuff!

(lightbulb) aha! now I know why nanase was so pissed off at sheryl. sheryl took the shower booth next to ranka! nanase was supposed to be the one next to ranka. if sheryl hadn't been there....

[d3v]

(lightbulb) aha! now I know why nanase was so pissed off at sheryl. sheryl took the shower booth next to ranka! nanase was supposed to be the one next to ranka. if sheryl hadn't been there....

First we got us a pretty bishounen trap as a hero, next we get a Meltran who's both sexy and a loli at the same time, now we get us some schoolgirl yuri! Truly, Macross Frontier has something for everyone.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Did u notice how big the "cockpit" of the VF-27 looked when it was folding at the end of episode 7? It also looked like the VR simulation Grace used in episode 8. That's why many many ppl believe Brera wasn't actually inside the VF-27, but controlling it from a virtual cockpit (So he could be basically far away). This is why I'm positive he was in Frontier the whole time. Also would solve the whole "entering Frontier without detection" issue & would put him under Leon's command...

I believe Leon is the one behind the VF-27 (either he helped develop it by sending Vajra research info to Galaxy fleet or made Brera steal it later or both). Maybe Michael's sister found out and Leon got her "suicided"...

I based my assumptions in the fact that Brera appears just after Leon orders his contact to keep an eye on Ranka. Btw... did anybody noticed that some of the video seen by Leon was taken inside the Vajra Carrier? Who took that footage?

[Duke Togo]

I based my assumptions in the fact that Brera appears just after Leon orders his contact to keep an eye on Ranka. Btw... did anybody noticed that some of the video seen by Leon was taken inside the Vajra Carrier? Who took that footage?

I think that's one of those "re-used animation" bits we aren't supposed to spend too much time thinking about. They weren't going to animate a new sequence just for gunsight footage. God knows how many times we've seen them do stuff like that, even in major movies. Audience POV.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Duke Togo

[ma2ha3]

I based my assumptions in the fact that Brera appears just after Leon orders his contact to keep an eye on Ranka. Btw... did anybody noticed that some of the video seen by Leon was taken inside the Vajra Carrier? Who took that footage?

you analyse the footage in frontier frame by frame?

did you notice that sheryl when she fall down during esp 1, her clothes changes from uniform to tube?

did you also notice that on some poster, the name sheryl is different, spell shelley or something?

did you notice that when sheryl manager show her the live footage of battle in esp 7, she show that alto destory a big varja just like the OP.

did the footage leon saw jump 1 to 3 mins into the action too?

yes, it is to save money from redrawing

leon does not know brera and he is ally, a main character too, just look at the OP, he was standing next to quarter, which mean he will be in SMS next.

also sheryl will fly the pink VF-25 and will sing with ranka to destroy varja - (dooh)

[Batou]

I think that's one of those "re-used animation" bits we aren't supposed to spend too much time thinking about. They weren't going to animate a new sequence just for gunsight footage. God knows how many times we've seen them do stuff like that, even in major movies. Audience POV.

It could have also been collected by Luca's '25, or even Alto's headgear.

Yeah, I wouldn't give it too much thought. If this is what strains credulity for you, good luck with the rest of the series (it's Macross, where rocks float, fighters turn into robots at high speeds in atmosphere, and teenage idols crooning about lost love cause mass mutinies in alien fleets ... hard sci-fi this ain't).

[Bill C.]

Truer words may never have been spoken, Batou.

[Legend of TSXer]

Truer words may never have been spoken, Batou.

He speaks many truths! See my Signature for my favorite from him.

[darkrealmbahamut]

I think that's one of those "re-used animation" bits we aren't supposed to spend too much time thinking about. They weren't going to animate a new sequence just for gunsight footage. God knows how many times we've seen them do stuff like that, even in major movies. Audience POV.

Good point but it could be like a helmet cam of some sort as well as mentioned before. All we know is it is not in a Macross version of an X-file.

Edited May 27, 2008 by darkrealmbahamut

[s001]

Best signature ever!!!

[Legend of TSXer]

Best signature ever!!!

Mine? I certainly think so! Ok not best, but damn I do love it. I like to re-read it and laugh.

[Wesker99]

Vulpix posted this this morning in the Something Awful forums. I thought it was pretty spot on

[Legend of TSXer]

Hahaha with those pics, the Max/Michael relation just hit me with the Giant Women thing. Wow Im slow...

Well wheres the Bobby/Claudia reference?

Edited May 27, 2008 by Legend of TSXer

[Strumvogel]

The translation I saw said "It seems the Dulfim crew withdrew immediately after the galaxy fleet was attacked by the Vajra," followed by "in the end, the whereabouts of the galaxy fleet is unkown." That wording implies to me that they bugged out to save themselves, and weren't going to stick around to see if the civillians made it out safely.

Lunar's translation has it as "...broke formation" during Galaxy's initial attack which could mean it was forced to separate from the fleet. It could meant it got cut off and trying to re-join would be too dangerous. After all, the Captain of the ship's primary responsibility is the safety of his crew and ship and in certain cases, at least in the US Navy, can disobey or refuse orders and directive if he/she deems that it endangers the safety of said crew and ship.

That could be the very case here.

[Zinjo]

Lunar's translation has it as "...broke formation" during Galaxy's initial attack which could mean it was forced to separate from the fleet. It could meant it got cut off and trying to re-join would be too dangerous. After all, the Captain of the ship's primary responsibility is the safety of his crew and ship and in certain cases, at least in the US Navy, can disobey or refuse orders and directive if he/she deems that it endangers the safety of said crew and ship.

That could be the very case here.

Or it could be that they had another mission in mind, possibly to deliver the VF-27s and Brera to the Frontier fleet...

The fact that the battle shown appears to have taken place away from the main fleet, opens the questions whether they were a decoy or indeed bugged out to save the ship and crew...

Only one Vajra cap ship appeared during the battle and with it's destruction the fight was over. Many open questions that have yet to be answered.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Zinjo

[Morpheus]

Maybe the entire Galaxy Fleet fold, however due to some freak fold dislocation, only the Dulfim and Kaitos arrived in the target area with the rest of the fleet missing.

[darkrealmbahamut]

My question really is that comes with this episode is how did Brera fet on to Island-1. Yes we saw him fold at the end of 7 but they picked up the fold of the Vajra. So if Brera and his team did fold into the range of the Frontier how did they miss it and how did at least Brera get aboard unnoticed?

[Graham]

As I've mentioned before, security on colony ships has always seemed pretty poor.

In Mac 7, Gigile and several Varauta soldiers with some FZ-109 weree able to penetrate City 7 and remain hidden for a loong time.

Graham

[Mr March]

I think the lack of proper security/detection on board the fleets is most likely a plot-driven fault, much in the same way that they never seem able to get the shell down in time for an enemy attack. I don't think it's anything truly legitimate, but the plot demands that somehow all these characters and villains make it on to the same ship so they can engage each other in dramatic events

[Graham]

Any news on the ratings for ep 8 yet?

Graham

[wolfx]

Any news on the ratings for ep 8 yet?

Graham

Its not on top 10, that's for sure.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-...nking-may-12-18

[Strumvogel]

I think the lack of proper security/detection on board the fleets is most likely a plot-driven fault, much in the same way that they never seem able to get the shell down in time for an enemy attack. I don't think it's anything truly legitimate, but the plot demands that somehow all these characters and villains make it on to the same ship so they can engage each other in dramatic events

Well the radar never picked the 27s up during the battle in ep7. The only way they knew about them was because Alto and Micheal had eyed one of them. If they had such stealth capabilites, I'm pretty sure they won't have any problem sneaking onto Frontier. Especially if they are people there already prepared to receive them. Leon perhaps?

[junior]

I based my assumptions in the fact that Brera appears just after Leon orders his contact to keep an eye on Ranka. Btw... did anybody noticed that some of the video seen by Leon was taken inside the Vajra Carrier? Who took that footage?

I'm sure as noted it's just "footage reused for convenience and cost sake". However, it just so coincidentally happens that Luca's wing-mounted sensor pod (which Alto sees is still intact when he arrives in the chamber) was on the far side of the plane from Brera. So it's possible that the footage originated from Luca's sensor pod.

It's curious to note that Cathy only mentions Alto's report of the VF-27. We know that Mikhail saw it as well. Did Mikhail not mention it? (either because he wasn't sure what he saw, or because he assumed that he'd been staring through his gun sights too long and was seeing things?) Unlike Alto, Mikhail only got a brief glimpse of it.

Regarding Brera getting on-board - who knows? It's entirely possible that he's inside Frontier completely legally as a visitor, having flown to it on a passenger liner from another destination (i.e. much the same way that Sheryl arrived). The stereo-typical method involves having his VF-27 hidden somewhere nearby. But that doesn't have to be the case.

Edited May 28, 2008 by junior

[d3v]

It's curious to note that Cathy only mentions Alto's report of the VF-27. We know that Mikhail saw it as well. Did Mikhail not mention it? (either because he wasn't sure what he saw, or because he assumed that he'd been staring through his gun sights too long and was seeing things?) Unlike Alto, Mikhail only got a brief glimpse of it.

Michel never really got a good look at it, all he saw was the exhaust trail. For all he knew, it probably could have been a Vajra moving erratically. The princess on the other hand, got a pretty good look at it, enough to notice that it was some sort of VF.

[dreamweaver13]

Vulpix posted this this morning in the Something Awful forums. I thought it was pretty spot on

wow. from now on, i'm gonna be confused as to what i'm watching.

[Dio]

I'm very much of the opinion that Brera pilots his VF-27 from within, rather than remotely. From a TV-Show standpoint, it's the only sensible way for it to play out, given the information we have thus far.

In the intro, we see Alto's VF-25 juxtaposed against Brera's VF-27 in what appears to be a dogfight - there's no dramatic point to having a dogfight with your antagonist's remote control airplane, because there is no element of risk attached to one half of the equation. Guld v. Ghost X-9 was even played up as giving the Ghost a rudimentary personality, where Sharon Apple had taken it over via AI - and even then, it was secondary protagonist versus secondary antagonist (or extension of primary antagonist, at any rate) while Isamu dealt with Sharon directly. The Alto-Brera fight looks to be much more personal between the two of them, and adding a video-game element to that would take away the impact of the battle.

In Ep. 7, when we see Brera in his cockpit/chamber, it's also shown in a back-and-forth manner with the outside of his ship, hyperspace zooming by, etc - strong indicators that he was present in the cockpit of the ship displayed. I think it would have been shown differently if her were piloting from outside somewhere - and don't forget, even with the fold signal antennae there's still something like a 40 second lag, which would not be good for piloting or large amounts of data collection.

I think he shot Alto's gunpod simply to keep Alto from raising a huge ruckus inside the enemy ship and blowing everybody's cover.

Dio's Wacky Theory Time! (i.e. skip this section if my verbose postulations are just plain silly)

I think this series (in the macro-sense) is going to branch off more into a discussion on whether artificial enhancement (biological or mechanical) is good for humankind, with Brera being the poster child for the pro-enhancement side of the debate if current theories hold. He's attached to Leon, who we know is up to something shady, as well as Mr. Bilra, who looks to be rather cyberneticized himself. He seems to pilot a very advanced valkyrie with no actual manual consoles, and may be in fact "jacked in" somehow since it seems he's surrounded by space/data/Lifestream/raspberry jello in his cockpit. Who better to put up against Alto, with his 100% natural talent?

More than that, maybe there's an element of "Humans try to play God" in the overall story. We know Ranka originally came from a research fleet, perhaps the Vajra attack on that fleet originated from within, rather than outside? If the Vajra are humanity's dirty little secret (after all, once the APHOS was found they started to try and replicate its powers for themselves, even screwing over an entire island civilization in the pursuit of said knowledge), then some might know about it and want to keep the truth hush-hush. Maybe Ozma was serving under one of the original hush-hushers who ordered him to make that dirty little secret disappear?

Further research (10+ years later) may have even continued and led to the production of some individuals like Brera, who could be literally the leading edge of human-technological innovation, but at the same time the farthest removed from their original humanity. If he's someone's research project, then Ranka could absolutely have a past acquaintance with him, from the research fleet. They both have the odd green pet-things, which could also have been experimental (since they are portrayed as pretty exotic even in a space colony) in the Lilo-and-Stitch sense.

Conclusion: I need to post more frequently. This stuff sits in my brain far too long, and comes out in far too lengthy of bursts. Thanks for reading