Roy Should Have Lived.

[Excillon]

Does anyone else think that Roy should have survived and they could have killed Rick instead?

Here's the thing : Yeah it would have drastically altered the story. So what? Lets face it here's your breakdown of the characters :

Rick Hunter : A whining sniveling little knob

Max Sterling : A royal suckup

Ben Dixon : An idiot and nothing more than the token fat doofus.

Miriya :She could have been cool if they did more with her character.

So Basically, Roy was the conceited one, yes. But also the least annoying main character. So what do you think, should Roy have lived?

So here is one vote for yes, Roy should have lived.

[Roy's Blues]

No, it added more realism to the series. It was war, People die. Yes, even lead characters.

I see you are using Robotech names. That REALLY bothers some members of ths board.

[JB0]

Especially since some characters were massively diffrent in Robotech.

...

WTF? How was Max a suckup? Is humility really that bad in american society?

[azrael]

Actually, it bothers us since it's been used in the wrong section....which leads me to ask....

Is this about Robotech or Macross? Cuz if this about RT...then I gotta move it...but if it's about Macross...then it stays and we continue this.

[Keith]

In Robotech Roy didn't die, he became Zor Prime!

[Noyhauser]

Max Jenius was the greatest of them all. I mean he WAS the best pilot, without a sliver of a doubt. Moreover, I think Zapp Branigan said it best:

We have failed to uphold Brannigan's Law. However I did make it with a hot alien babe. And in the end, is that not what man has dreamt of since first he looked up at the stars?

Edited March 20, 2006 by Noyhauser

[JB0]

In Robotech Roy didn't die, he became Zor Prime!

382078[/snapback]

[fansubs2000]

Rick Hunter : A whining sniveling little knob

Max Sterling : A royal suckup

Ben Dixon : An idiot and nothing more than the token fat doofus.

Miriya :She could have been cool if they did more with her character.

382069[/snapback]

Here's a question for you.......

Honestly, have you EVER seen the Animeigo subtitled Macross DVD's (The original Macross series, NOT Robocrap) ??

Just wondering.

[eugimon]

Ben Dixon should have lived! Both Roy and Rick were humorless SOBs, only Ben was funny.

Ben would have great lines like:

GOOOOOOOOOD morning Macross City!

Nothing like the smell of protoculture in the morning!

What's your major Transformation?

Ah ben, he was a funny guy!

[fansubs2000]

Ben Dixon should have lived! Both Roy and Rick were humorless SOBs, only Ben was funny.

Ben would have great lines like:

GOOOOOOOOOD morning Macross City!

Nothing like the smell of protoculture in the morning!

What's your major Transformation?

Ah ben, he was a funny guy!

382100[/snapback]

I agree, the characters were so different in Macross then Robotech.

Ben was the funniest guys and he made me laugh a lot.

I loved it when Roy was checking out Minmay's ass, and she is how old!?!?

Great stuff!

I did enjoy Ben and his comments, it's too bad they killed him off.

Would have been great to have him around for at least a few more episodes.

[Seto Kaiba]

Okay, for the Robotech people, here's a quick run-through of those four and their proper Japanese names, because they're right it does rub some members of this site the wrong way when you use Robotech character names.

Rick Hunter = Hikaru Ichiyo

Ben Dixon = Hayao Kakizaki

Max Sterling = Max Jenius

Roy Fokker = Roy Focker

Miriya = Milia

And now on with the show...

Roy Focker was, in short, Hikaru's main role model as a soldier, and someone who generally helped insulate him from the bulk of the stress caused by the war. Whenever Hikaru had problems, it was always Roy he ran to for help. They couldn't very well develop Hikaru's character much more with Roy perpetually there to lend his advice and cheer him up. Once Roy was out of the way, Hikaru had nobody to confide in, and therefore had to establish relationships with other characters (Kakizaki and Max, Misa, etc) and start dealing with life as an adult. In war, people get killed. Friends, sometimes family, sometimes someone you don't even know. Hikaru was forced to cope with that and it made him a much more believable character overall.

Killing someone else wasn't really in the cards. Hayao Kakizaki was slated to die anyways. He was a first class idiot, and killing him was part of the double-whammy that was reality intruding into Hikaru's childhood (like a camel into a tent, and just as welcome). Hayao wasn't a particularly deep character, so killing him off was always in the cards. He's invariably seen in two moods, cheerful or humbled. Killing Max really wasn't ever in the cards, because he became Hikaru's only real remaining friend after Roy and Kakizaki were killed. Hikaru was like a big brother to Max, in the same way that Roy was to Hikaru, so it was sort of a reversal of roles for Hikaru, again making him a more believable character. Killing Milia kinda ruins it for Max, so they couldn't do that either.

Summarizing, Roy was the logical choice to kill off, for inducing maximum sympathy between the viewers and Hikaru. The effect simply isn't as great for any other character.

[eugimon]

sigh.

[Greyryder]

In Robotech Roy didn't die, he became Zor Prime!

382078[/snapback]

How did he get the matrix away from Rodimus?

[jenius]

Wait a minute, isn't Macross one big allegory of post WWII Japan? Wouldn't not killing Roy off have left emerging Japan in the shadow of the larger than life Americans?

[eugimon]

Really? What does the zentradi represent?

[jenius]

Ooh it's been forever since I read the whole allegory thing. And, to be honest, it could have totally been written by a conspiracy theorist type guy/gal. I don't know though, usually when it comes to obscure Macross info like that I usually picked it up right here on these boards. Maybe one of the other members will know what I'm talking about.

[EXO]

On either cartoon, it would have been stupid to change the story. The fact that it bothers you that Roy died was the point. You're emotionally invested in a likeable character. While Hikaru, Misa and Minmay were the core of the story. If Roy lived then the story would have been more about him and Claudia. Roy's death makes him iconic... kinda like Bruce Lee and Marylin Monroe.

[Sdf-1]

Really? What does the zentradi represent?

382124[/snapback]

Guess.

[Hurin]

Does anyone else think that Roy should have survived and they could have killed Rick instead?

Here's the thing : Yeah it would have drastically altered the story. So what?

Dude! That's a great idea! Killing off the main character and turning the story over to a supporting character is obviously the way all stories should go! Let's explore this formula a bit further:

In The Karate Kid, Daniel-san should have died and Mr. Miagi should have gone on to kick the crap out of "Cobra Kai" and then date Elizabeth Shue!

In Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones should have gotten chopped in half by the big dude with the sword. . . and Sallah should have gone on to discover the Ark and kick Nazi ass all on his own!

In the Lord of the Rings Frodo should have died while crossing the river Anduin, and somehow it should have been arranged that it falls to Legolas to take the ring to Mount Doom. Why Legolas? Because he's so coooool! So much cooler than Frodo! And such a hottie!

Luke probably should have gotten shot down over the Death Star too. Leaving one of the cooler members of Red Squadron to make the miraculous shot and stand with Han and Chewie at the end as the credits rolled. I mean, Luke was just a "whining sniveling little knob!"

Personally, about halfway through The Passion of the Christ, I really started to feel bummed that Jesus was going to die. Mel Gibson really should have just wrote the story with one of the Discples getting it instead.

H

[eugimon]

Nah, It was kenobi that shouldn't have died! How cool would it have been if he had chopped vader in half and he was all like, "you like that? Yeah? Yeah, I'm still the mast Byatch! Yeah, that's right, you might be all robot and black suit and all but I'm the jedi master!" and did a little dance, like a touch dance dance or something. That would have been cool. And luke should have been all, "dude! That was awesome, I thought my sister was cute but you're the MAN!" And then they could get it on in gay love and ben can say, "I just don't know how to quit you." And then luke could say,"may the force be with you..." nudge nudge wink wink.

And then maybe star wars would be as gay as this thread.

*** not that there is anything wrong with being gay, it's just a joke, and in the words of carlos mencia, laugh gay people, if you can take a dick, you can take a joke. ***

[Sdf-1]

Say no more, say no more!

[Noyhauser]

Three points.

1- This thread has taken a disturbing turn towards the two man luge.

2 - Eugimon, I think your disclaimer made your post even worse.

3 - nobody noticed or laughed at my highly appropriate, Zapp Brannigan quote... its quite depressing.

[Sumdumgai]

Hikaru and Roy should have died, and Minmay should have gone out in a valkyrie using some kind of voice control system or a guitar, or piano, and wiped out the zentraedi forces with her songs, striptease, then her (very successful) porno video filmed live in her cockpit.

Then Minmay should have gotten together with Misa and they have comfort sex over the loss of Hikaru and then realise he was kind of a noob anyway and only women can truly understand women.

Oh we also should have had a lot of Miria fan service such as shower scenes, close ups of her in her uniforms, and aww hell with it, sex scenes with her and Max.

And Claudia turns out to be Edgar having had a sex change and getting taller, the reason being that Roy is so manly.

[the white drew carey]

Does anyone else think that Roy should have survived and they could have killed Rick instead?

Here's the thing : Yeah it would have drastically altered the story. So what? Lets face it here's your breakdown of the characters :

Rick Hunter : A whining sniveling little knob

Max Sterling : A royal suckup

Ben Dixon : An idiot and nothing more than the token fat doofus.

Miriya :She could have been cool if they did more with her character.

So Basically, Roy was the conceited one, yes. But also the least annoying main character. So what do you think, should Roy have lived?

So here is one vote for yes, Roy should have lived.

382069[/snapback]

And now you know the one of the reasons why most of us prefer the original to RT.

[Mowe]

Sumdumgai, I notice you are particularly fond of the Miria fan services in a few of your recent posts..I can only say great minds are alike...I just wish you could have returned the M&M baby making outake, when that is done, who cares whether Roy dies or not.

Oh we also should have had a lot of Miria fan service such as shower scenes, close ups of her in her uniforms, and aww hell with it, sex scenes...

382150[/snapback]

[Renato]

Ooh it's been forever since I read the whole allegory thing.  And, to be honest, it could have totally been written by a conspiracy theorist type guy/gal.  I don't know though, usually when it comes to obscure Macross info like that I usually picked it up right here on these boards.  Maybe one of the other members will know what I'm talking about.

382126[/snapback]

I think this allegory or a similar one appears in one of the articles in the Gold Book.

[Sumdumgai]

What can I say? I'm a Miria fan.

Besides I like poking fun at everything.

[Mowe]

That's the altitude, 10 points.

What can I say?  I'm a Miria fan.

Besides I like poking fun at everything.

382171[/snapback]

[Ginrai]

I think a good questiong might be, did Kawamori have any specific film/TV/external influences that shaped the Roy/Hikaru dynamic? I personally thought, since Godfather I and II plus Star Wars were made in the mid to late 70s, and were so impactful on popular culture, and Macross was made in the early 80s - that the Michael and Sonny Corleone/Luke and Obi Wan character dynamics were templates for Hikaru and Roy.

382080[/snapback]

Uhm, maybe this is dumb, but to me Roy seems pretty obviously patterned on Sleggar Law from the original Mobile Suit Gundam... And Hikaru's whiney bitch thing was obviously inspired by Amuro Rei. Macross even parodizes how Amuro gets into the Gundam and immediately kills two Zakus with it at the beginning of the series by showing Hikaru get into the Valkyrie, immediately get shot down, and flail around smashing buildings.

Edited March 20, 2006 by Ginrai

[Sumdumgai]

At least they got Akira Kamiya back to do Roy's voice for Macross Zero. Saint Seiya fans had the misfortune of having the main cast replaced with the latest series.

[Sundown]

Personally, about halfway through The Passion of the Christ, I really started to feel bummed that Jesus was going to die.  Mel Gibson really should have just wrote the story with one of the Discples getting it instead.

Wait, isn't this the one story that differs from all the other examples, where the main character does die?

[JB0]

Personally, about halfway through The Passion of the Christ, I really started to feel bummed that Jesus was going to die.  Mel Gibson really should have just wrote the story with one of the Discples getting it instead.

Hey, spoiler warning next time!

[Phyrox]

That's the altitude, 10 points.

I believe the word you are looking for is attitude. Unless there is some inside joke I am missing.

[Nied]

Three points.

1- This thread has taken a disturbing turn towards the two man luge.

2 - Eugimon, I think your disclaimer made your post even worse.

3 - nobody noticed or laughed at my highly appropriate, Zapp Brannigan quote... its quite depressing.

382146[/snapback]

I would have mentioned it earlier but I have a very sexy learning disorder.

[Skullsixx]

Does anyone else think that Roy should have survived and they could have killed Rick instead?

Here's the thing : Yeah it would have drastically altered the story. So what? Lets face it here's your breakdown of the characters :

Rick Hunter : A whining sniveling little knob

Max Sterling : A royal suckup

Ben Dixon : An idiot and nothing more than the token fat doofus.

Miriya :She could have been cool if they did more with her character.

So Basically, Roy was the conceited one, yes. But also the least annoying main character. So what do you think, should Roy have lived?

So here is one vote for yes, Roy should have lived.

382069[/snapback]

This is simply what happens... heroes die. Real heroes that is. You're definitely describing the characters from the RT side. Although I don't think Max was ever a suck up, and RT does a crappy way of presenting these characters IMO. Hell, Obi Wan died, and Anankin died in the end. Remember Luke being young and stupid? He did learn though. From a writers standpoint, it's usually the character that the audience can most identify with that endures. We experience the world through his eyes (Hikaru's) and live and learn. Roy will always be my favorite Macross character. I just wish he would have died taking out about 200 Zentraedi at once. More of a hero's death is what he deserved.

Edited March 21, 2006 by Skullsixx