Macross 7: Is it really that bad?

[farmer_yohei]

Alright, I just finished watching Macross. I rather enjoyed it and am looking forward to seeing more Macross. I plan to watch Do You Remeber Love?, but what I want to know about is Macross 7. From what little I can read about it online, most people don't like it. I want to know if its really as bad as people make it out to be or what. I mean obviously a sequel will never be as good as the original (there are of course some exceptions, but for the most part they suck) but is it really a bad anime or is it a decent anime that is just dwarfed by its highly respected elder.

[zeo-mare]

it really blows as a anime and a story

Edited July 27, 2005 by zeo-mare

[farmer_yohei]

it really blows as a anime and a story

314875[/snapback]

See, what I am asking is how? Not just "it sucks." Why do you say it blows? I know nothing besides just that the main character is in a band and a pilot. And "really blowas as a anime and a story."

I hope I am not coming off as confrontational or aggressive, I just wanted to know more information about it.

Edited July 27, 2005 by farmer_yohei

[NoSuchFile]

At first, it's going to feel like the worst thing you've ever seen in your entire life, but it changes

[farmer_yohei]

At first, it's going to feel like the worst thing you've ever seen in your entire life, but it changes 

314878[/snapback]

I have no idea what that means. But I do love the vagueness of it.

[Hurin]

Welcome to MW.

You have stumbled onto a taboo topic. Because it comes up often and yet always ends badly.

This thread will probably be locked before too long. Though the mods may be nice and let it stay until it degenerates to the point where locking is warranted. But, in case it gets locked early, here is a link to the last time M7 was discussed with any degree of depth. Of course, you'll have to sift through the flaming.

Here's another thread. Though not as good as the first.

It's hard to search for Macross 7 because most write it as M7. . . and the board search engine won't do a search for a word that small.

Best Regards,

H

[zeo-mare]

sorry for the vagueness and simplicity of my post, you were not coming off as confrontational or aggressiver at all, i am simply saying the way it is it is a goofy cartoonish series, it does not feel at all like the original which is far superior, i saw it a while back and i could not get into it, it is nothing like the original series, you should check out Macross Plus or Zero next or even macross 2, some people do not like part 2 but at least it feels like a macross experiance. part 7 is just to cartoonish and silly for me .

by the way welcome to the site

chris

[farmer_yohei]

I didn't know it would be a taboo. My bad (god that is sooo 1998). Anyway I'll definitely check out thos links.

I just thought somebody could just give me an unbiased opinion of the series as an anime and not as a sequel to the holy Macross. If anyone could, I would like to read it.

[farmer_yohei]

l, i am simply saying the way it is   it is a goofy cartoonish series, it does not feel at all like the original which is far superior, i saw it a while back and i could not get into it, it is nothing like the original series

314894[/snapback]

But is it a bad anime. Take M7 out of Macross' shadow, ignore that it follows Macross. Is M7 a good anime series?

[Hurin]

I didn't know it would be a taboo.  My bad (god that is sooo 1998).  Anyway I'll definitely check out thos links. 

I just thought somebody could just give me an unbiased opinion of the series as an anime and not as a sequel to the holy Macross.  If anyone could, I would like to read it.

314898[/snapback]

Actually, it took me a while to find it, but here's another "good" (none of them are really "good" because they descend into flame-fests. . . but we take what we can get) thread. Actually, I would consider this the "best" of the (now) three threads I've posted. If I recall, the "characters" involved in this thread toned it down a notch or two and some good discussions were had.

H

[zeo-mare]

I didn't know it would be a taboo.  My bad (god that is sooo 1998).  Anyway I'll definitely check out thos links. 

I just thought somebody could just give me an unbiased opinion of the series as an anime and not as a sequel to the holy Macross.  If anyone could, I would like to read it.

314898[/snapback]

unfortunally even then i just could not get into it, even if it was not a macross series and just another anime i could not get into it and really did not enjoy it. i really wanted to like it, being a fan of macross but the more i watched the more bored i got of it, it did not intrest me at all.

[JB0]

My opinion is that it has some interesting concepts, but they're never fully explored.

And it goes all to hell in the last few episodes.

IMO, everything after Operation Stargazer needs to be scrapped entirely, and much of the rest could use an overhaul. With the addition of more background and character development.

It COULD have been a great series, but as-is, it's simply mediocre.

Edited July 27, 2005 by JB0

[Roy Focker]

There's a group of clowns lead one with a fetish for door knobs that likes to fully express their hate for Macross 7.

The series turns off some but others do like it.

I suggest you stop reading the opinions of others on this matter. I read a few negative reviews at first and didn't take to Macross 7 right off the bat.

Just see it for yourself and decide after you watch the entire series.

You may think it was the greatest or the worst.

[Mr March]

You unlikely to get what you're looking for here on MacrossWorld. Everyone and their dog has an opinion on Macross 7. You'd be better off just reading reviews on anime websites and ultimately (GASP) watching it yourself to decide.

I know this isn't what you wanted, but you're simply not going to get anything out of the opinions here at MW. Eventually, any discussion of a subjective nature (which is what we're talking about here) is ultimately useless because you'll get a debate that never ends, going around in circles until the staff locks it.

If you're looking for some kind of concensus, there is a definite feeling of disdain toward the series. SDF Macross, DYRL, and Macross Plus are nearly universally loved. Macross II and Macross Zero is generally accepted as medicore or not bad. Macross 7 maintains the honor of most disliked, but even then there are numerous staunch defenders among our members.

[farmer_yohei]

You unlikely to get what you're looking for here on MacrossWorld.  Everyone and their dog has an opinion on Macross 7.  You'd be better off just reading reviews on anime websites and ultimately (GASP) watching it yourself to decide.

I know this isn't what you wanted, but you're simply not going to get anything out of the opinions here at MW.  Eventually, any discussion of a subjective nature (which is what we're talking about here) is ultimately useless because you'll get a debate that never ends, going around in circles until the staff locks it.

I have always intended on watching Macross 7. One of my reasons for inquiring was because on most of the anime sites I've gone to don't really tell me anything. Posting here was sort of a last resort, and I figured since this was a Macross forum that I could get some good information.

I just wanted to know whether or not it was worth the money to get the bootleg DVD off of eBay. Now before I get hit with people talking about I'm supporting criminals and what not. I don't have a good connection to the internet so fansubs are out. And from what I can tell, Macross 7 will be released here in the USA in....oh never. So the only option I can see is to buy the bootlegs. If there was an official release, I would get it, but seeing as how the only way I can view this series is bootleg, bootleg it is.

I do love to use that word...bootleg bootleg bootleg

If someone knows of another option, I'm listening.

[Mr March]

You unlikely to get what you're looking for here on MacrossWorld.  Everyone and their dog has an opinion on Macross 7.  You'd be better off just reading reviews on anime websites and ultimately (GASP) watching it yourself to decide.

I know this isn't what you wanted, but you're simply not going to get anything out of the opinions here at MW.  Eventually, any discussion of a subjective nature (which is what we're talking about here) is ultimately useless because you'll get a debate that never ends, going around in circles until the staff locks it.

I have always intended on watching Macross 7. One of my reasons for inquiring was because on most of the anime sites I've gone to don't really tell me anything. Posting here was sort of a last resort, and I figured since this was a Macross forum that I could get some good information.

I just wanted to know whether or not it was worth the money to get the bootleg DVD off of eBay. Now before I get hit with people talking about I'm supporting criminals and what not. I don't have a good connection to the internet so fansubs are out. And from what I can tell, Macross 7 will be released here in the USA in....oh never. So the only option I can see is to buy the bootlegs. If there was an official release, I would get it, but seeing as how the only way I can view this series is bootleg, bootleg it is.

I do love to use that word...bootleg bootleg bootleg

If someone knows of another option, I'm listening.

314933[/snapback]

I see. I'm afraid I can't help, but hopefully another member can prove helpful with Macross 7 DVDs.

If you want spoiler filled reviews of each and every episode telling you exactly what the show is like and how the story works, you can head over to MAHQ and read their very thorough reviews. Reading the first episode review might spil some stuff, but should give you a very good idea of what the whole thing is about.

Mecha & Animation Headquarters

[Duke Togo]

Do a search, there are a dozen or so rather large threads on this.

[Agent ONE]

This thread is inviting, I have an erection of both length and girth that before today are unmatched.

Speak my brothers... Should thou drop the fukin axe?

[HWR MKII]

Aye Droppeth thou axe.

[grss1982]

Here we go again.

[Wesker99]

It took Agent ONE a solid 18 posts to get here.

I personally don't think the series is that bad.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Although AgentONE and I agree totally on Macross 7, I would say do yourself the favour and watch before making an informed opinion. Just don't complain to me if you feel like your eyeballs are bleeding after watching it....

[Roy Focker]

Keep the axe low and tiny in your pants.

[Wes]

This thread is inviting, I have an erection of both length and girth that before today are unmatched.

Speak my brothers... Should thou drop the fukin axe?

314949[/snapback]

I just don't need that mental image, so quiet you.

If I were you, I'd follow like you have been; watch them in chronological order. DYRL is definately a treat. Then Macross Plus is the pinacle of awesomeness. Now Macross 7 is next, but I'd recommend maybe watching Macross Zero next, because it has a good blend of M+ & M7 aspects. M7 is its own beast, but if you like the rest of Macross you have a good 50% chance of at least enjoying it.

You should be able to find electronic copies of them pretty easy. Look at Bittorrent sites to see if they have them, or try IMacross, one of those servers should have it.

You should buy Macross Plus though, because it is licensed and has a suprisingly great dub job. Very much worth the price. If you want hard copies of the others, boots on Ebay should be cheap.

[Keith]

The only reason why there are so many negative reviews of 7 (which even in itself aren't that many negative reviews) are because it's detractor's are so negative. 7 is a great series, didn't have the highest animation budget (not that anything other than Macross OVA's in the franchise get decent budgets), but overall very good animation for its time, on spec character models, etc. If you like rock music, or more specifically j-pop, then you're already set. As for the story, if you are interested in the backstory of the Protoculture, then you've absolutely no reason not to watch.

[Mechamaniac]

At first, it's going to feel like the worst thing you've ever seen in your entire life, but it changes 

314878[/snapback]

What he said. I hated M7 at first, but it gets pretty good once you get 10 episodes or so into it.

Continuing what Keith said, if you want more of the back story of Macross, then it's a great series. Not only does it cover the Protoculture, but it covers more of the Zentraedi & Meltrandi, and has tons of future character development of Max and Millia. Not to mention, continuing the Macross timeline, so you get to see what's going on in the Macross universe 40 years in the future.

[hellohikaru]

Macross 7 probably didn't catch very well with youngsters in Japan and as a result most of them not knowing about SDF itself went for Gundam instead. Much of the mecha animation is kinda crappy, the Valks look gayish, the music is annoying. Yet there is the hidden gem of the M&M VF-22S scenes

[Radd]

There are fansubs of Macross 7, so you could watch the series with decent translations and not have to pay for them. However, if after watching the fansubs you found you enjoyed the series, the FX version is well worth the asking price. The subtitles are good for an HK bootleg, but still a far cry from good for a legit translation, however both the video and audio quality are superb.

I rather like Macross 7 myself. Even the beginning episodes seem better somehow after you've seen the series in its entirety. M7 is lacking in animation, and does not put much emphasis on the action scenes, however I feel it has some of the best character and relationship developement out of the Macross franchise, and out of most other anime. M7 also features some of the best music. Also, while I'm not a fan of the Sound Force designs, the series has some excellent mecha otherwise, including the VF-19P, VF-22, VF-17, and the VF-5000.

While I do like it, and watch it more often than most other Macross shows, I do sometimes wonder how things might have been had Kawamori helmed the production himself. With only some minor cosmetic and storytelling/direction changes I imagine there'd be a lot less hostility towards the show from many of its detractors.

Speaking for the animation, it's worse than the best of SDF, but far better than the worst of SDF. It's not terrible, and it's consistant rather than SDF's constant shifting between great and terrible animation. There's a lot of reused animation, and my biggest complaint is that the reused animation is no better than the non-reused animation. Usually productions make the reused animation a step or two up from the regular animation, to try and get people to forgive them for abusing it. It's better than the animation in shows like Evangelion (wich admittedly made excellent use of limited animation) and Black Heaven.

Overall, it's easy to see why many Macross fans don't like 7 very much. While shows like Plus and Zero are more action oriented and darker, 7 is slightly more light hearted than much of the tv series and less action oriented. I'd say Macross 7 is like shojo-Macross, being more concerned with the character developement and relationships between the characters. If you don't put as much importance on those aspects, you're likely to dislike the whole show. Also, many of the designs are...not so great, and definitely very different from previous Macross incarnations. Not just the Sound Force mecha, but many of the Protodevlin designs look like something out of a sentai anime.

For what it's worth, if you can get through the series, but still aren't completely enamoured with it, I feel that Dynamite 7, the follow up OVA side story, does away with a lot of the aspects I personally disliked in M7, such as the gaudier designs and poorly done battles. On the other hand, being an OVA it relised on already established characterizations and cannot go nearly as in depth with that aspect as a full 49 episode tv series.

I hope that helps, but again your best bet is to check out a few episodes of the fansubs. Central Anime released them, so do a Google search and you should be able to find what you're looking for. 7 takes it time getting to the meat of the story, so many people dislike the first 10-12 episodes or so on their first viewing, and feel that the show picks up after them.

[bsu legato]

here's another "good" (none of them are really "good" because they descend into flame-fests

314889[/snapback]

My old thread!

farmer_yohei may have started yet another M7 thread, but I'll cut him some slack because he has Toshiro Mifune as his avatar.

Edited July 28, 2005 by bsu legato

[Keith]

Macross 7 probably didn't catch very well with youngsters in Japan and as a result most of them not knowing about SDF itself went for Gundam instead. Much of the mecha animation is kinda crappy, the Valks look gayish, the music is annoying. Yet there is the hidden gem of the M&M VF-22S scenes

315109[/snapback]

No, there was only a full 50 episode run, tons of merch, multiple soundtracks, 3 extra produced episodes, a short movie, a 4 episode OVA sequel, etc. Probably didn't catch on that well at all Like it or not, 7 was popular in Japan, deal with it. If it wasn't, it would have been clipped mid run.

The animation is no worse than that of Wing (which aired a year later), and was a common standard for its era. Not super excellent, but also not subpar. The music was great and varied, regardless of whether you like the style or not, it was very well produced. The Valkyries don't look even remotely "gayish" they have faces, get over it. Even then, there's only 3 of them. Had Macross 7 been the first series to feature mecha with faces, then maybe peoples attacks on them could be understood, but seriously, get over it.

[bsu legato]

I think that Sundown had the best remarks about M7 in my last thread:

I've decided. Although I may enjoy viewing M7 more than MII in isolation as a whimsical diversion, the fact that it smears my beloved SDF with all sorts of fruity ungoodness bears my greater and more significant hatred.

The use of eye gouging designs is actually among the lesser of its offenses. The transformation of love and emotion into a quantifiable energy measurable by a meter, bottled by aliens as a refreshing afternoon beverage is its greatest.

Boo M7. *checks the M7 box*

-Al

[Agent ONE]

Well I have posted this before, and Roy let it fly so I can't imagine it would be a problem now. Keep in mind, these are my feelings on the subject, I am not just calling it gay and leaving it at that. I think even the M7 fans would agree (though they ARE tremendous pussies) that everyone deserves a chance to speak on any issue here.

I HATE Macross7 enough to actually murder someone over it.

My reasons:

1. ENCOURAGING WEAKNESS IN CHILDREN

The trend since we were kids has been one of featuring heroes (if I must call them that) who are just worthless weaklings who promote taking the easy way out, M7 is one of the worst on this issue. Plot-line is unrealistic and peace and dancing while holding hands is ALWAYS the way things end, which is teaching a lesson of fantasy, NOT reality No one is ever confrontational, there is no real problem solving, and everything is a compromise, as much as we would like to believe that is a real reflection on life, it isn't, Nothing in life is a compromise; there are those who take, and those who get ripped off, that's life.

2. TARGETED AT LITTLE KIDS

I have had many arguments with MW members on this point, but it is pretty obvious that M7 wasn't made for us old Macross fans. In fact quite the opposite, most of the older guys around here are enraged by M7. No, M7 was made for a younger generation, it was made to bring a new Macross fans in, but if it did or not, it managed to make me and others like me embarrassed to be Macross fans.

3. STUPID DESIGNS, MACHINES WITH BOOBS AND FACES

The designs are so retarded I could scream. I mean seriously, the teenage girl gets a pink fighter plane with boobs. Some of the other fighters have actual faces. What the fu(k? If this show were called "Fruits in Space" or something, I guess I could handle this, but its called Macross. A show that gets affiliated with DYRL, and the machines with faces and boobs have no place next to a work of art like DYRL.

4. STUPID DESIGNS, CLOTHING, NAMES, AND COLOR CHOICES

They took the bad ass of bad asses.. Max, and they made him wear a dress. So unbelievably lame. They made the main squadron of the show, whose job was to dance and sing in space in a RAINBOW or colors. They named a squadron "Pink Pecker." This one makes me want to just rip M7 fan's teeth out with a rusty pair of pliers. God I swear Kawamori hates old school Macross fans.

5. REDICULOUS ENEMIES

The "bad guys" in this show were just clowns. Totally stupid dialogue, with characters that looked like some kind of cross-dressing costume pride parade winners. I mean there is absolutely nothing to fear about these guys, they are laughable 100% of the time. Combined with their lame appearance and lame dialogue, their mission is to suck song energy from humans. How sinister.

[Nightbat]

Keep the axe low and tiny in your pants.

314972[/snapback]

God is watching us

Hmm, the 7th already?

Guess it's MW's time oft the month again huh?

[hellohikaru]

No, there was only a full 50 episode run, tons of merch, multiple soundtracks, 3 extra produced episodes, a short movie, a 4 episode OVA sequel, etc. Probably didn't catch on that well at all Like it or not, 7 was popular in Japan, deal with it. If it wasn't, it would have been clipped mid run.

The animation is no worse than that of Wing (which aired a year later), and was a common standard for its era. Not super excellent, but also not subpar. The music was great and varied, regardless of whether you like the style or not, it was very well produced. The Valkyries don't look even remotely "gayish" they have faces, get over it. Even then, there's only 3 of them. Had Macross 7 been the first series to feature mecha with faces, then maybe peoples attacks on them could be understood, but seriously, get over it.

315158[/snapback]

That's just your opinion as a diehard M7 fan though. I said the mecha and explosion animations were crappy and recycled many times never said the characters were that animated bad. Let's just say we have a different taste in music. I think the music is very generic though.

I wouldn't mind seeing HG taking M7 and making it part of their rowboatech continuity though.

[1st Border Red Devil]

I wouldn't mind seeing HG taking M7 and making it part of their rowboatech continuity though. 

315171[/snapback]

Sorry, we've already had musical mecha in Robotech before, and people hated it. It was called Lancer's Rockers for the Robotech RPG. Needless to say, nothing so far, thank God (or Crom as it is) that The Shadow Chronicles does not appear to be going down that path.