taksraven Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 You know, taking a slice of sausage pizza has a whole new meaning. Pizza the Robotech Eunuch. Should make that a qualification to be a die-hard RT fan. They have to sacrifice their privates to show their dedication to the power of Protoculture, Rick Hunter and Carl Macek, the Robotech holy trinity. Taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastaEgg Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 They might as well lump all the threads under the warzone topic by the look of things there. I swear, the whole fandom is like Robotech itself- it's just one senseless war after another. Now it's Robotech vs Macross. When (if) the LAM comes out, it's going to be WB Robotech vs HG Robotech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 And don't forget the LARM is going to have to compete with the Live Action Voltron movie, Live Action Akira moivie, & Live Action Cowboy Bebop movie, all of which are totally gonna happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I was thinking of replying to the latest Pizza quotes..but why bother... I'll just remark in passing that Macross was originally intended to be a parody of anime robot/war/space adventure shows - so of-fcuking-course it "copies" a little bit from previous anime. Again - the difference is that Kawamorii & Co. explicitly and openly state where the ideas come from. Meanwhile - HG pretends that Robotech is a coherent story and not a bootleg. Besides - whatever SDFM TV was intended to be, it became something beyond its' intention - and anime in its' own right. I'm not sure to what extent there are similarities between it and Yamato, because I haven't watched Yamato. However, I have watched enough anime to know that all of them basically have robots, aliens, girls and often some complex story that is just under the surface. Pizza's remarks are irritating because they don't GO ANYWHERE. If somebody writes "Macross is just a copy of Yamato" ---well...ok...fine...WRITE MORE!! Write me a damned essay that demonstrates how it's a copy, and in what way. The story? The mecha designs? The main theme? To what extent? Are you saying it's IDENTICAL animation that has been dubbed over after a hapscratch crap new story was written for it? THAT kind of "copy" ... or are you saying there are many similar elements? Or are you saying the concept is used and was copied? WHAT are you saying?? Be Specifice please! I hate it when fans make off hand comments like that as if there was consensus on the issue. I can understand quick snappy one liners when you KNOW that everybody else understands the line of thinking behind the one liner - but ... here... correct me if I'm wrong, but I have never encountered any serious attempts to show that Macross is "nothing more" than a "copy" of Yamato in any way shape or form. As for online shops having trouble bringing Yamato valkyrie in - well - not really. The only real "problem" is that it's impossible for international shops to get Macross from their regional Yamato distribution agents, and instead they need to go through intermediaries. This is why Macross items are pricey - and this is the fault of HG of course... Besides - I don't exactly see how his comment that "online stores are having trouble importing Macross items to sell" is somehow indicative of there being something wrong with Macross or Macross related products. Ah whatever... I was supposed not write a long post about this... It's like - they never have anything new to say. How long is the SDF-1, I have 9000 lessoners and COURT YOU THERE BE GO IT! and that's pretty much it...over and over and over... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Ugh....I don't post a lot in here but I read pretty much most of what is said. I went over to Robotech.com and was thumbing through this thread: http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...mp;pagenumber=5 I can't believe the crap Pizza is saying on the last page. How can someone be that uninformed? Has he actually ever even watched Macross Frontier? I can't believe the things he's spewing out as factual. Do people actually listen to him at all? wait, what? THE fart?!?! are these people really that stupid... oh god they can't be! CAN THEY?!? AAAAHHHH!!!! MY BRAIN HURTS!!!! *goes and cries* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moly_Sigang Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 wait, what? THE fart?!?! are these people really that stupid... oh god they can't be! CAN THEY?!? AAAAHHHH!!!! MY BRAIN HURTS!!!! *goes and cries* Since most of the intelligent folks were banned from that place, now all they're left with are the stupid HG loving neckbeards like Pizza and MEMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) I was thinking of replying to the latest Pizza quotes..but why bother... I'll just remark in passing that Macross was originally intended to be a parody of anime robot/war/space adventure shows - so of-fcuking-course it "copies" a little bit from previous anime. Again - the difference is that Kawamorii & Co. explicitly and openly state where the ideas come from. Meanwhile - HG pretends that Robotech is a coherent story and not a bootleg. Besides - whatever SDFM TV was intended to be, it became something beyond its' intention - and anime in its' own right. I'm not sure to what extent there are similarities between it and Yamato, because I haven't watched Yamato. However, I have watched enough anime to know that all of them basically have robots, aliens, girls and often some complex story that is just under the surface. Pizza's remarks are irritating because they don't GO ANYWHERE. If somebody writes "Macross is just a copy of Yamato" ---well...ok...fine...WRITE MORE!! Write me a damned essay that demonstrates how it's a copy, and in what way. The story? The mecha designs? The main theme? To what extent? Are you saying it's IDENTICAL animation that has been dubbed over after a hapscratch crap new story was written for it? THAT kind of "copy" ... or are you saying there are many similar elements? Or are you saying the concept is used and was copied? WHAT are you saying?? Be Specifice please! I hate it when fans make off hand comments like that as if there was consensus on the issue. I can understand quick snappy one liners when you KNOW that everybody else understands the line of thinking behind the one liner - but ... here... correct me if I'm wrong, but I have never encountered any serious attempts to show that Macross is "nothing more" than a "copy" of Yamato in any way shape or form. As for online shops having trouble bringing Yamato valkyrie in - well - not really. The only real "problem" is that it's impossible for international shops to get Macross from their regional Yamato distribution agents, and instead they need to go through intermediaries. This is why Macross items are pricey - and this is the fault of HG of course... Besides - I don't exactly see how his comment that "online stores are having trouble importing Macross items to sell" is somehow indicative of there being something wrong with Macross or Macross related products. Ah whatever... I was supposed not write a long post about this... It's like - they never have anything new to say. How long is the SDF-1, I have 9000 lessoners and COURT YOU THERE BE GO IT! and that's pretty much it...over and over and over... Pete On RobotechX earlier this evening, I asked him (direct quote): "Before you go off more about how Macross ripped off Yamato...erm, have you read Robotech Art 1?" (Since of course, Robotech Art 1 goes into the genesis of Macross and explains it all pretty well.) He replied (again, direct quote): "Oh man,you macross purist Nazis never leave well enuf alone.I can tell you are seto kaiba and the rest of those lunatic fringe buttholes at macross world's puppet so do yourself a favor and stop being their toilet paper okay? You are not wasting my time,you wasting yours and proving me right about you lunatic macross fans. And you macross Nazis always say Robotech can't do anything original..Well bigwest fails at originality too. have a nice day" Which I guess means "No, I haven't read Robotech Art 1." I've asked this question before, but it bears repeating: Why is it that I know more about Robotech than the Robotech fanboys do? It's really kinda sad. Edited January 7, 2010 by Gubaba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 You know what - here's some free advise for Harmony Gold: Dear Harmony Gold - ban Pizza, Memo, Mav and make Gubaba and a couple other Macross fans run the show. Robotech, for all its' faults, really does not deserve the abysmal low it has fallen into on the internet thanks to people who can't write coherent sentences, don't know anything about the franchise and are generally clueless. Seriously - I mean...say what you want about Robotech, but as an 80s product - it was well done. And Shadow Chronicles -for all its' faults - is better than reading Pizza the Hut's posts. These dudes and their ignorance+arrogance are really wreaking havoc on the Robotech franchise IMO. Nobody in their right mind would want to sign up to a forum to hang out with dudes like that. And if that's the future direction of the Robotech franchise and fandom - then that's just sad. Pete Resident Pedophile Nazi Cultist of Macross World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladdin Sane Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I've asked this question before, but it bears repeating: Why is it that I know more about Robotech than the Robotech fanboys do? Because being a Robotech fan has very little to do with liking or being knowledgeable about the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saraphys Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 The answers to your questions are:Easy... he's a "true" Robotech fan. Intelligence is a rare commodity among Robotech fans, and spewing uninformed hate at the mention of Macross and anime in general comes with the territory. Yes, he has... he watched it on Veoh or bought a bootleg, I forget which. Either way, his initial reaction to the show on RobotechX was to label Alto a transvestite and condemn Bobby for being gay, then leaping to condemn the entirety of the series as "pro-gay propaganda". After being told to stop acting like an ass, he accused everyone present of being "pro-gay sympathizers" and that we were working to legislate homosexuality on everyone in the world in the near future. No. And you wonder why i have such harshness towards American's Kaiba, when on every other board I view, their's another Doug Bendo, Pizza the Hut, Captain CAPSLOCK, and Mav-we have this dance, Tommy? I would, ofcourse, voice an opinion or contemplation upon them over on RT.com, but i draw the line when my number of BANHAMMER's goes into the "TEENS"... There's a joke in there, somewhere, i know it... But I digress... Maybe Pizza and his kin are merely suffering aloud...Maybe they were merely raped by male family figures as children... ...I dont know...But i wish so... Its a better excuse then simple ignorence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulagu Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) And don't forget the LARM is going to have to compete with the Live Action Voltron movie, Live Action Akira moivie, & Live Action Cowboy Bebop movie, all of which are totally gonna happen! And the Spielberg's Ghost In the Shell. That's the wave of anime films they intend to ride, I guess. Edited January 7, 2010 by hulagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps99042 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I was thinking of replying to the latest Pizza quotes..but why bother... I got bored so I did. I think Pizza just likes to insult people as much as possible without getting banned. I think Pete's post is right on the money. I already pointed out how he was wrong again so I'm sure he'll insult me more. Pizza I know you're reading this since you admitted as much in one of your posts. All I'm asking is for you to think about what you're going to write before you actually write it and try to be civil without all the name calling and insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Since most of the intelligent folks were banned from that place, now all they're left with are the stupid HG loving neckbeards like Pizza and MEMO. I just now noticed that the 5 PAGE THREAD in question all stems form someone reposting that stupid F*cking topless robot post from a couple months ago. I'm trying to come up with something to say about that but I'm just flabbergasted beyond words. I just can't logically respond to that level of stupid. I have literally been crushed both mentally and physically by the shear weight of idiocy. I want desperately to respond in some way, but I just can't. I'm just too shell-shocked and traumatized by what I've seen. It's like I just watched a baby panda being raped to death by a gang of Nazi's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 ban Pizza, Memo, Mav and make Gubaba and a couple other Macross fans run the show. Probably a bad idea. Since I don't care one whit if Shadow Rising or the RLAM come out, and I don't care how many Robotech DVDs or Toynami Betas get sold. Besides, if I were a mod there, I'd probably ban anyone who acted dumb or couldn't spell. Seriously - I mean...say what you want about Robotech, but as an 80s product - it was well done. I kinda disagree there, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Neptunekittie should be RT.com's official spokesperson I agree I finaly saw the orinal macross and well let's put it this way ti a good thing i saw robotech first because i would have never liked it as much as i do robotech. Max and Millia end up seprated and devorced because of sexist politcal ideals and such. Infact i suprsied she did not go back to killing him in the orinal. Misa counter part to our Lisa was a winny kid in my oppinion. I consider robotech a seperate catrtoon or anime from the orinal yes it shares footage and some story line hence to match the footage but nothing else. Hard to argue with such a well reasoned and intelligent discourse on the matter of Macross versus Robotech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saraphys Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Kittie is one of the more "enlightened" (one might say) of those that venture into the Warzone... Resident Pedophile Nazi Cultist of Macross World Oh, can i get in on that "Pedophile Nazi Cultist"-angle as well? Sounds like fun! "HAIL SARAPHYS! Neo Pedophile Nazi Homosexual Cultist of Macross World!" (They don't like the gay-thing either, remember? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) I got bored so I did. I think Pizza just likes to insult people as much as possible without getting banned. I think Pete's post is right on the money. I already pointed out how he was wrong again so I'm sure he'll insult me more. Pizza I know you're reading this since you admitted as much in one of your posts. All I'm asking is for you to think about what you're going to write before you actually write it and try to be civil without all the name calling and insults. Good luck with that. Neptunekittie should be RT.com's official spokesperson Hard to argue with such a well reasoned and intelligent discourse on the matter of Macross versus Robotech. This is my favorite: Robotech is Robotech and Macross is macross. they are as far as i'm concern to difernt creatures. Ture i like the orinal Robotech better than macross I'm an 85'er so thats all that needs to be said. i will remind you this is a robotech website and not a Macross one so Robotech fandom is going to b e high. I'm waiting for Capt. Donovan to show show up and shout at her for "putting Macross fans on the back of the fan bus"...but I guess he only says that to Macross fans. " Edited January 7, 2010 by Gubaba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) wait, what? THE fart?!?! are these people really that stupid... oh god they can't be! CAN THEY?!? AAAAHHHH!!!! MY BRAIN HURTS!!!! Big deal, that's just a typical day there with everyone waiting for Shadow Rising and the LAM because they have NOTHING better to do. Don't waste time thinking about it and accept it. They're really the ones wasting everyone's time. Edited January 7, 2010 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I just now noticed that the 5 PAGE THREAD in question all stems form someone reposting that stupid F*cking topless robot post from a couple months ago. I'm trying to come up with something to say about that but I'm just flabbergasted beyond words. I just can't logically respond to that level of stupid. I have literally been crushed both mentally and physically by the shear weight of idiocy. I want desperately to respond in some way, but I just can't. I'm just too shell-shocked and traumatized by what I've seen. It's like I just watched a baby panda being raped to death by a gang of Nazi's... You know - I wrote a massive response to that Topless Robot miscarriage of the brain - it's in this thread somewhere...I'll happily try to locate it for you. I assure you that all the shell shocked and traumacy you felt were also felt by me. That Topless Robot article was beyond stupid. It's like we've stumbled on the modern day equivalent of the Cavemen who died out because they insisted that their design for a squaire wheel would eventually triumph over the neighboring tribe's crappy "round" wheel... Probably a bad idea. Since I don't care one whit if Shadow Rising or the RLAM come out, and I don't care how many Robotech DVDs or Toynami Betas get sold. Besides, if I were a mod there, I'd probably ban anyone who acted dumb or couldn't spell. I kinda disagree there, too. Well - my point was to just say that Robotech actually deserves better than those guys. I mean - look - it's gotten to the point where I have come to feel sorry that Robotech is stuck with that. I mean - when I recollect my Palladium role playing games - I do recall that there were no laughable spelling errors, no caps lock, and that generally there was an attempt at something intelligent and fun made. And when you watch the shows - they are no where near as bad as how Memo, Mav, Doug etc make them out to be when they praise them. I have come to the conclusion that we have stopped seeing Robotech as Robotech and instead, thanks to Robotech.com and its' membership - we have now developed a far lower estimation of Robotech than was previously had. Robotech is Robotech and Macross is macross. they are as far as i'm concern to difernt creatures. Ture i like the orinal Robotech better than macross I'm an 85'er so thats all that needs to be said. i will remind you this is a robotech website and not a Macross one so Robotech fandom is going to b e high. Stupid is Stupid and Stupid does as Stupid does. they are as far as i'm concern no periods commas or capital letters necessary in this sentence. Ture is a neologism combined "true" and sure" that i invent in my genius. I'm a solo-69'er so thats all that needs to be said. i will remind you not to capitolize 'i' ever and in my fantasy world only the word Robotech (or Macross) is spelt in capitols. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 anime52k8 - here you go: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry810487 The Two Post critique of Topless Robot's utter stupidity, by Me Macross World Search function/More Options is truly amazing! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 anime52k8 - here you go: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry810487 The Two Post critique of Topless Robot's utter stupidity, by Me Just because something is longer doesn't mean it's actually better. Anyone here watch Alan Smithee's Dune (wink wink)? Sometimes there's too much fat in the product that ruins the whole thing, especially the Southern Cross portion that even superfans have openly acknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulagu Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Anyone here watch Alan Smithee's Dune (wink wink)? Man, I hate that guy. Most everything he's involved in usually turns to poo. Edited January 7, 2010 by hulagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Hm...here's a very interesting exerpt from that thread over at Robotech.com: Do you know how to survive the 'Baptism of Fire' of RT defender? Getting roasted alive by Macrossies at MW & survived to tell the tale. Like Memo. So...basically being a Robotech fan means being a member of the Flat Earth Society who goes to pretty much any modern day...well...I was going to write "university" but I can just as well write "toilet" and, while peeing, ask the guys in the other stalls - "Hey guys! I have heard that the Earth is FLAT! What do you think?" and debating this question, then returning to the Flat Earth Society to...tell the tale! Comedy at its' finest Moving on: The market in Japan doesn't really compare with the rest of the world as far as earnings potential goes. The real market to watch is China, which named Robotech, not Macross or Gundam, as the greatest Robot themed cartoon of all time. Oh yeah - I remember reading about that over at all the major news network websites. "Chinese Prime Minister Announced Robotech the greatest Robot themed cartoon of all time." Seriously - again - am I missing something - when did "China" do this? What does the poster mean by "China"- usually when we say "America did this or that" or "France is going to do this or that" we mean - the government, and the country is just used as a short-hand. Very rarely do we mean "in America" or "in France." Ok - fine - maybe there was a poll or there is a magazine in China which announced this - but so what? How many people did the poll cover? Any numbers? Figures? LINK maybe? jeez... More great stuff: HG financed Shadow Chronicles by itself, they did not and I might add were quite proud to have not had to bring in a toy company as a partner. Dear Potential Empoyer, I would like to apply for the position of Business Venture Manager. As you will note from my CV, I have utterly failed to secure sponsorship deals to defer some of the costs of my previous business endeavors, and have had to finance them all out of pocket, since the final product didn't sell well either. I am proud of this record of self-financing and can't wait to bring the benefits of this business model to your company. John Doe Harmony Gold .... And ANOTHER wonderful gem of a quote: I am not a fan of Robotech so much as I am a fan of its potential. Ok guys - I have a really great idea for a movie - a big holywood blockbuster! I don't know when it will ever get made - but I need some fans. Anybody care to become a fan of my movie for its' potential? Now here though - I have got to say thanks to Pizza the Hut for making this statement: Robotech does not force sex themes in their stories while macross Frontier eggs on a under age sex theme involving Ranka 16 yrs old and Alto 18 yrs.Ya call it legal in other countries but here in the great U.S.A. under age sex relations are still a bad thing.And why did macross make Klan a little girl? Robotech is not afraid to make it clear women are women but in macross there was times when there would be a "bouncy" sound effect when a woman in bikini breasts bounced when walked by in Frontier. It seems macross concentrates on sexual theme elements in their stories rather than battle and story for the show,Which is why it seems macross Frontier had a cheezy unfinished ending. So with these guys it really is all about sex, isn't it? There just needs to be less sex and more blood to make a show good. And no comedy. No sex, no humor - just blood and grit. Finally - how is the ending of Macross Frontier cheezy (sic) due to having concentrated on "sexual themes" ?? I don't understand that statement...trying to wrap my head around it... It makes it sound like the ending is a softcore porn scene that never managed to go hardcore and thus annoys everybody by generating all this anticipation? I dunno But still - if THOSE are the best reasons that can be given....then...well...yawn Robotech has a better fan base than macross! Reason I say that is because we Robotech fans are constantly bagged on by macross fans. Umm... how does being ragged (not bagged) on by Macross fans in MW make the Roboech fandom a better fandom? Me no understand. It's like... he combines the adjectives "best" and "better" and "good" with things that usually are not associated with this adjective... BUT THEN ...this is so awesome... then a Robotech fan shows up and, in reference to Pizza's accusation that there's too much sex and bouncing boobs in MF... I don't know for Macross Frontier, but for what I remember all the girls in Shadow Chronicles have HUGE breats and butts in tight uniforms. Every single one of them ... Mind you - the angry sign is from the poster!! It's like - yeah - Macross sucks for having cute girls....but you know what? Shadow Chronicles had cute girls too!! Oh no!!! What? Are they supposed to feature asexual characters? Ugly girls? Or maybe no girls - no people - just Robots in Disguise and some generic humans? Fear not though, Robotech fans, for: Remember Doctor Grant? Her doctor outfit was not tight! When Ariel was in terran cloths they were not skin tight! That blonde female captain did not have tights on either. So not every one the femals looked like they wearing painted on cloths.But as a normal man I am not complaining. And Macross Frontier called Sheryl Nome the "space nympho" and her next to nude shots were a bad thing. What the heck? Have these guys ever seen any women? Do they ever get out of the house? I mean - come on. I live out in the boonies too, with trees, grass, and fields surrounding me - but heck most girls nowadays at LEAST wear tight jeans! Go to any city and sit down and look at how people dress...Macross Frontier was a great presentation of modern fashion. You really really really have to either live in a cave to not see that. I'm not even going to go the route that Seto did in one of his earlier posts regarding where these guys work etc, and I'm not going to assume that they live in rural areas or something - because I think that's stereotyping. But clearly there must be something limiting their range of experience with women for them to write stuff like this. And I'm not even going to reference the Minmey butt scene or Misa/Lisa's tight flight suit - because that's been done to death already... My question though is... what is the big deal? How tight is tight? How tight is tight enough? What are they going on about? You know - women have breasts and curves and either they can cover them up or they can wear clothes that underscore their femininity. Macross Frontier does a great job in terms of fashion design. Shadow Chronicles is basically limited to eveybody wearing jumpsuits. going OMG!! over T&A is so pre-pubescent... THEN We are introduced to ROBOTECH FAN TYPE 2.0. [Robotech Fan type 1.0 is of the Memo/Pizza/Doug mould - that is to say ignorant, can't spell, don't even really understand their own beloved Robotech story, having an odd fixation on sex and scared of cute girls.] Robotech Fan, Type 2.0 however - is like Capt. Donovan. If you start a discussion about Robotech and Macross then you are throwing him in the back of the bus. If you make statements or give opinions about the anime and try to debate which is better - you are mean. This type of Robotech fan is the ultimate blank. "Hi. I like Robotech, but don't ask me why. I don't want to know anything and I haven't watched Macross and don't want to. Everybody just needs to squeeze their brains like sponges and when there's nothing left, we can all get along in peaceful ignorant bliss." Or - in the words of this type of fan: I haven't seen much of Macross, but from what I have seen, it didn't impress me. Too much goofy anime logic, which is to say, not much logic at all. I've watched Plus, and II. More plot holes than you could shake a stick at. What I've seen of Frontier involves mecha boom boom, which never impressed me in the first place no matter how it's animated. I don't understand what the major malfunction is. This is a LOT of energy and passion wasted hating on what is essentially a bunch of drawings and sound effects. Both series were meant for entertainment, so why not treat them as such? But then, I seriously doubt those guys who are gonzo about hating one or the other series will be listening to me yelling, "CHILL OUT!" So, I just wait for them to run out of steam, and ignore the bull they insist on spewing. I don't even read their posts. Why bother? They never have anything worthwhile to say, IMO. PS If liking Robotech or anything else for that matter makes me a societal reject in some people's eyes, then so be it. "I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam." -Popeye the Sailor Man In other words: Nothing Matters. Move on. Gotta end it here 'cause I'll go over-quote limit again Pete Edited January 7, 2010 by VFTF1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladdin Sane Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Kinda irrelevant to the current topic of discussion, but could somebody explain to me why Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles is considered anime? I mean I know the franchise has its roots in anime, and that the new material takes its visual style from anime, but it was written, directed, produced, voiced and scored in America and animated in Korea. Apart, perhaps, from some early consultation with Tatsunoko nobody from Japan was involved with the project at any time in development. It's no more anime than The Simpsons. I dunno, I guess it's ultimately irrelevant and probably kinda pedantic of me to pick up on this kind of thing but it's like when you see someone talking about Wakfu or something and calling it "a French anime". Well no, it's not. Anime is, by definition, Japanese animation and if something isn't from Japan then, well, it's not anime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robelwell202 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Kinda irrelevant to the current topic of discussion, but could somebody explain to me why Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles is considered anime? I mean I know the franchise has its roots in anime, and that the new material takes its visual style from anime, but it was written, directed, produced, voiced and scored in America and animated in Korea. Apart, perhaps, from some early consultation with Tatsunoko nobody from Japan was involved with the project at any time in development. It's no more anime than The Simpsons. I dunno, I guess it's ultimately irrelevant and probably kinda pedantic of me to pick up on this kind of thing but it's like when you see someone talking about Wakfu or something and calling it "a French anime". Well no, it's not. Anime is, by definition, Japanese animation and if something isn't from Japan then, well, it's not anime. Another greivous mistake by the Usual Gang of Idiots (A title previously reserved or Mad Magazine) at Harmony Gold. A mistake, mind you, that is compunded by the morons that praise Harmony Gold (PTH, MEMO, Sanman, Mav, and the rest). Idiots leading idiots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protoculture Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Do you know how to survive the 'Baptism of Fire' of RT defender? Getting roasted alive by Macrossies at MW & survived to tell the tale. Like Memo. Did you just quoted me, VTF1? Actually, to think about it, that is the most number of posts I made in a single year as compared to 2009 in RT.com. Whacking some uninformed RT fans seems my new hobby nowadays since my source of amusement ... Blackrose & Seto get the banhammer. But still, I held no grudge against MEMO or Mav, since they've no issues with me. But I do have a beef against Pizza. Furthermore, since I am a Robotech AND Macross fan, I'm not overall prejudiced against RT as it is. I do expect the RT.com mods to start lock the darn thread, as explosive it is in Warzone forum. But, it seems even Steve Yun is paying close attention to it .... since nothing happen yet, I'll keep on the ball rolling. Hmm, it seems well enough, no name calling just yet ..... atleast for me. I think my RT street creds will help me buy time, but hey, I'll try to avoid the banhammer. Coz me still loving Lisa Hayes as much me loving Misa Hayase & Sylvie Gena & Sivil & Sheryl Nome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Kinda irrelevant to the current topic of discussion, but could somebody explain to me why Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles is considered anime? I mean I know the franchise has its roots in anime, and that the new material takes its visual style from anime, but it was written, directed, produced, voiced and scored in America and animated in Korea. Apart, perhaps, from some early consultation with Tatsunoko nobody from Japan was involved with the project at any time in development. It's no more anime than The Simpsons. I dunno, I guess it's ultimately irrelevant and probably kinda pedantic of me to pick up on this kind of thing but it's like when you see someone talking about Wakfu or something and calling it "a French anime". Well no, it's not. Anime is, by definition, Japanese animation and if something isn't from Japan then, well, it's not anime. In this global age it is kind of pointless to categorize, though. "Anime" is a truncation of "animeeshon", which is the kana rendition of Animation, so if we go back to the "original" definition, that is, the one which originated in Japan, then the term applies to all animation. Yes, even The Simpsons, and even Disney. "Kaigai anime" is a common phrase used in Japanese to specify "overseas animation", like Disney or whatever. The need to specify of course arises simply because pretty much 95% of all animation available in Japan is Japanese, and American and European works are extremely marginalised. I'm not sure I've ever met anyone in Japan who knows who Fred Flintstone is. English-speaking countries have kind of shot themselves in the foot by limiting the boundaries of the range in definition for this word. I often avoid it altogether, and say "Japanese animation" instead, actually. I think it's safe to argue that that is something we can never call Shadow Chronicles. Edit - Nice avatar, btw! Edited January 7, 2010 by Renato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulagu Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) In this global age it is kind of pointless to categorize, though. "Anime" is a truncation of "animeeshon", which is the kana rendition of Animation, so if we go back to the "original" definition, that is, the one which originated in Japan, then the term applies to all animation. Yes, even The Simpsons, and even Disney. "Kaigai anime" is a common phrase used in Japanese to specify "overseas animation", like Disney or whatever. The need to specify of course arises simply because pretty much 95% of all animation available in Japan is Japanese, and American and European works are extremely marginalised. I'm not sure I've ever met anyone in Japan who knows who Fred Flintstone is. English-speaking countries have kind of shot themselves in the foot by limiting the boundaries of the range in definition for this word. I often avoid it altogether, and say "Japanese animation" instead, actually. Yeah, I find it wrong that english speaking fans categorize the term like that. The same with manga,manhwa and manhua. What do you think they call comics in their own language? Edited January 7, 2010 by hulagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladdin Sane Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Yeah, I find it wrong that english speaking fans categorize the term like that. The same with manga,manhwa and manhua. What do you think they call comics in their own language? I'm generally against segregating anime and manga from the larger cartoon and comic mediums as it just doesn't make sense to me to go "Okay, this stuff is from Japan, so it's anime/manga but all that stuff from America, all the different European countries, Australia and whereever else? You're all lumped into the one category together" (though I guess you could argue that there's more similarities between, say, American and English comics than between either of those and Japanese comics, especially given that two of the more prolific writers in American comics for the last twenty years, Alan Moore and Grant Morrison, are English and Scottish respectively) but the western colloquialism of "anime" being "stuff from Japan" has kind of stuck now and it's, ultimately, easier to go with the flow. And when, in the case of R:TSC, such a deal is made of calling it "anime" rather than just "animation" or "a cartoon" I feel the people doing so are trying to make a particular point. Edited January 7, 2010 by Aladdin Sane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkenstein Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Technically, a manga would be considered a graphic novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saraphys Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Robotech does not force sex themes in their stories while macross Frontier eggs on a under age sex theme involving Ranka 16 yrs old and Alto 18 yrs.Ya call it legal in other countries but here in the great U.S.A. under age sex relations are still a bad thing.And why did macross make Klan a little girl? ...Im sorry... Losersayswhat??? Since Anal-the-Hut supposedly ventures these forums, and, pressumably, has the capacity to create and account and post here...unlike our majority numbers over on RT.com, who get banned because evolution didnt miss us...I really have to pose my undying question here... And please everyone, understand what im saying before you yell at me... But... 1) What exactly is it that PizzatH thinks warrents putting "Great" infront of "U.S.A."...you haven't really done anything of note since the end of WWII...and even THAT I would debate till Sol ran cold (You'll have to forgive me, I dont take American propaganda up-the-ass like most others do). Yes, yes, There was that whole "Man-on-the-Moon"-thing, but they braught back "rocks" (dont hate me, I'm saying it like your Government does), and they practically killed the program (Apparently Neil, Buzz and the gang were ment to find aliens, or technology, or the secrets of the Universe...or some-BS like that). And second, and this is really open to input from non-American's to prove a point... 2) WHO THE FECK CARES WHAT AN AMERICAN THINKS!!! Your country believes in a God of one religion...your BACKWARDS! (And makes me laugh till it hurts!) And in Australia, Ranka and Alto are LEGAL to have had their relationship progress sexually...hell, my first sexual-partner's age differance was about that (fyi, Iwas the younger! ). So, Australian and Japanese laws are fine with that, while American law doesn't allow it... Thats 2-to-1, Against Pizza's America. Since these douchebag's don't listen to Internet facts, may I ask of people who are on these boards who are from other countries to tell of there Legal age for sex Laws? Just incase Douchebag the Hut wants to come play and explain itself like an evolved creature... And yes, i would play nice should it come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Kinda irrelevant to the current topic of discussion, but could somebody explain to me why Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles is considered anime? I mean I know the franchise has its roots in anime, and that the new material takes its visual style from anime, but it was written, directed, produced, voiced and scored in America and animated in Korea. Apart, perhaps, from some early consultation with Tatsunoko nobody from Japan was involved with the project at any time in development. It's no more anime than The Simpsons. I dunno, I guess it's ultimately irrelevant and probably kinda pedantic of me to pick up on this kind of thing but it's like when you see someone talking about Wakfu or something and calling it "a French anime". Well no, it's not. Anime is, by definition, Japanese animation and if something isn't from Japan then, well, it's not anime. Very interesting subject you bring up. Interesting because in Poland, they actually produce Polish Manga... http://yatta.pl/sprzedaz-1,Mangi,Polskie,H...oryginalne.html and here's some Polish Dojinshi: http://yatta.pl/sprzedaz-1,Mangi,Polskie,D%C5%8Djinshi.html I don't know how good any of this stuff is because I've never read it - but judging from the cover art - it looks very professional. They are all apparently original works, albeit I'm sure there's some obvious inspiration going on there. So - going that route - if somebody made a "cartoon" but called it an "anime" -- what then? Like these Polish folks made something that they called a Dojinshi... and generally - I'm not expert on Dojinshi's - but if you're going to make something called a Dojinshi - it probably has to have certain traits that make up what a Dojinshi generally is thought to be - although - you can then add your own stuff, and probably there is some cultural stuff in there which is very Polish and not very Japanse - beats me - haven't read any of it. But the point is - if a foriegn person makes a "cartoon" but does it in the general style that is used in Japanese anime - then can't they also say they've made an anime? I guess I'm going to be called a liberal again (here's looking at you Bendo!) ... but yeah ... my gutt instinct is to take a liberal interpretation of the term anime and not limit it to simpley Japanese productions. THAT said - "anime" definitely needs to be qualified as any animated material that is, in form, substance, content and any other way a reflection of, inspired by, commentary to Japanese anime as such. So no - it can't be The Simpsons or the Smurfs. Is there a more precise way to define it than this? I dunno ... off the top of my head- not really... But I certainly wouldn't say that JUST because a cartoon was made in Korea and written in America - then it can't be an anime. I mean - personally, I wouldn't mind it if everybody who made cartoons adopted anime as a style. Then again, there have been mega-bastardizations of this - like what Pat Lee did with his Transformers designs in Dreamwave comics.... Open to debate I guess. Did you just quoted me, VTF1? Actually, to think about it, that is the most number of posts I made in a single year as compared to 2009 in RT.com. Whacking some uninformed RT fans seems my new hobby nowadays since my source of amusement ... Blackrose & Seto get the banhammer. But still, I held no grudge against MEMO or Mav, since they've no issues with me. But I do have a beef against Pizza. Furthermore, since I am a Robotech AND Macross fan, I'm not overall prejudiced against RT as it is. I do expect the RT.com mods to start lock the darn thread, as explosive it is in Warzone forum. But, it seems even Steve Yun is paying close attention to it .... since nothing happen yet, I'll keep on the ball rolling. Hmm, it seems well enough, no name calling just yet ..... atleast for me. I think my RT street creds will help me buy time, but hey, I'll try to avoid the banhammer. Coz me still loving Lisa Hayes as much me loving Misa Hayase & Sylvie Gena & Sivil & Sheryl Nome. Oh - it was you I guess I should have been able to tell by the..um...you know...SAME avatar Me - I use a different avatar in every forum I post in...in fact, I hate my VFTF1 avatar...I wish the mods would let me change it to something cool like... AGENT2 !! But anyways - I disagree with lots of the stuff you post in that debate in RT.com - but I did notice a strange tendency to be open to argumentation and generally a vague ability to present your views reasonably, in complete paragraphs etc etc ... But - having said that - I guess you were being sarcastic since, as a MW member - you clearly see that nobody is toasting or roasting you personally for saying you're a Robotech fan. Mainly - it's not BEING a Robotech fan that bothers anybody on these boards. It's being a STUPID Robotech fan - one whose fanboyishness is made visible by constantly putting down Macross as child pornography - which is stupid In this global age it is kind of pointless to categorize, though. "Anime" is a truncation of "animeeshon", which is the kana rendition of Animation, so if we go back to the "original" definition, that is, the one which originated in Japan, then the term applies to all animation. Yes, even The Simpsons, and even Disney. "Kaigai anime" is a common phrase used in Japanese to specify "overseas animation", like Disney or whatever. The need to specify of course arises simply because pretty much 95% of all animation available in Japan is Japanese, and American and European works are extremely marginalised. I'm not sure I've ever met anyone in Japan who knows who Fred Flintstone is. English-speaking countries have kind of shot themselves in the foot by limiting the boundaries of the range in definition for this word. I often avoid it altogether, and say "Japanese animation" instead, actually. I think it's safe to argue that that is something we can never call Shadow Chronicles. Edit - Nice avatar, btw! Again I kind of disagree. I think there is a point to categorizing because the more Japanese anime I watch, the more I get the feeling that all these guys have been watching eachother, and their works are also kind of like commentary to one another. This is especially so of Gainax productions where you can so see that they grew up on the classics and their contemporary work has been a shout out to all that they remember. To me, anime is a cultural phenomena that is partially tied to Japan as such, but actually more closely tied to a body of animated works that happened to be made in Japan in the 70s and 80s (and a few in the 60s) as well as tied to the manga that were made back then - which all kind of created their own cultural phenomena and are pretty characteristic up to today. That is to say...if this makes sense... Japanese anime is not Japanese in the sense of being limited to a particular nationality - but it IS "Japanese" insofar as the majority of it was created in Japan and the anime/otaku culture has flourished in Japan - as a sub-culture to the mainstream Japanese culture. Anime is all about this sub-culture. Whether the reasons for it being born in Japan and thriving in Japan have anything to do with Japanese culture as such....I dunno - I'm not expert enough in the material... So there you go Pete I'm generally against segregating anime and manga from the larger cartoon and comic mediums as it just doesn't make sense to me to go "Okay, this stuff is from Japan, so it's anime/manga but all that stuff from America, all the different European countries, Australia and whereever else? You're all lumped into the one category together" (though I guess you could argue that there's more similarities between, say, American and English comics than between either of those and Japanese comics, especially given that two of the more prolific writers in American comics for the last twenty years, Alan Moore and Grant Morrison, are English and Scottish respectively) but the western colloquialism of "anime" being "stuff from Japan" has kind of stuck now and it's, ultimately, easier to go with the flow. And when, in the case of R:TSC, such a deal is made of calling it "anime" rather than just "animation" or "a cartoon" I feel the people doing so are trying to make a particular point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Pizza the Robotech Eunuch. Should make that a qualification to be a die-hard RT fan. They have to sacrifice their privates to show their dedication to the power of Protoculture, Rick Hunter and Carl Macek, the Robotech holy trinity. It's not like it would be any kind of a loss for him or any of the others... the odds of him ever using it are at best minimal. About the best he could hope for would be to end up like Maverick_LSC, whose harridan of a wife treats his Robotech hobby as something shameful to be concealed from their family, friends, and neighbors. (Now if only she could extend the same treatment to her husband himself, we'd all be better off) Otherwise, the best he could do would be to follow in the footsteps of Jeebers*, whose only social interaction with women comes from trying (and failing) to flirt with the rare and plainly uninterested women on Rt.com and paying $7 a letter to write to "women" at long-distance dating services in the former Soviet Union. * Jeebers is well-known for his insistence that he's an expert on every field from acoustics to zoology, his attempts to pass off his ultra-left-wing political views as irrefutable fact, and his total inability to distinguish between official canon and the material he came up with for his "original" Robotech RPG, which is just D20 Future with many names changed. They might as well lump all the threads under the warzone topic by the look of things there. I swear, the whole fandom is like Robotech itself- it's just one senseless war after another. Now it's Robotech vs Macross. When (if) the LAM comes out, it's going to be WB Robotech vs HG Robotech. To be fair, the Warzone used to be quite good... but then Steve got fed up with the continual infighting over the political and religious discussions, so he banned everything resembling intelligent discussion. That ban was one of the first changes which heralded the start of the very short, very abrupt slide into the abyss for Robotech.com. Neptunekittie should be RT.com's official spokesperson. Hard to argue with such a well reasoned and intelligent discourse on the matter of Macross versus Robotech. Y'know, I've known Neptunekittie for something close to six years now, and I still have great difficulty believing she's supposed to be about ten years my senior. She used to be in the minority over there as someone who couldn't be arsed to write coherently or check her spelling, but now it's getting more and more common for Robotech fans to display the thought processes and literacy levels of a gang of dyslexic third-graders. Of course, these are adults who still cling to a Santa Claus-like belief that either Tommy Yune or Carl Macek will descend from on high and deliver the promised sequel that will make Robotech popular and successful for the first time since 1985, so it shouldn't really come as a big surprise. Back in the day, I was naive enough to believe there was probably a good reason why they couldn't be arsed to write like someone even half their age. Nowadays, I just assume that the "85ers" ate a lot of lead-based paint chips... probably from their low-quality Matchbox Robotech toys. I'm waiting for Capt. Donovan to show show up and shout at her for "putting Macross fans on the back of the fan bus"...but I guess he only says that to Macross fans. " Typical preachy Robotech fan, that one... he gets all up in arms whenever someone dares criticize Robotech or its creators for any reason, but when ill-informed crap is flung at Macross fans, it's totally okay. No, we're not putting RT fans on the back of the fan bus, we're putting the lot of them on the short bus instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Typical preachy Robotech fan, that one... he gets all up in arms whenever someone dares criticize Robotech or its creators for any reason, but when ill-informed crap is flung at Macross fans, it's totally okay. No, we're not putting RT fans on the back of the fan bus, we're putting the lot of them on the short bus instead. But...but...he's the Rosa Parks of Robotech fandom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saraphys Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 But...but...he's the Rosa Parks of Robotech fandom! Who? ...Oh, nevermind...I'll do what no Robotech fan has ever done... I'll look it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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