Popularity of Gundam

[Hoptimus]

Call me a freak but I love the old Gundam 0079. Movies that is. The series has too much filler episodes. I guess I also love 0079 because it sets up for Zeta which was my favorite. I only really like the UC stuff. The AU stuff never wowed me. Au was definatley aimed at ADD people.

I wish Macross was more popular. I think the problem was the fact that we had so few sequels for so long.

Plus this whole US licensing debaticle.

Will that ever end?

Probably not.

[ewilen]

Would it be safe to assume that if Yamato's sales improved that Big West's would profit enough to make more Macross shows then.

It seems that Macross is stuck in that hole though.  There aren't enough fans to warrant more toys,  there isn't enough shows in the franchise to market, and they neither market the toys nor the shows.  And it doesn't seem like Macross 0 is the show that would help them out of that hole.

I hate it say it because I hate formulas, but in this case it works.  The mecha and the action in Zero is fine, but we need more of what make Macross works.  And that's Mikimoto designed characters, idol singers and some serious butt kicking alien army (not vampires).  The story can deviate were it wouldn't seem so formulaic, but lets get more of what made Macross what it is.

Yes, I'm sure that feedback/synergy between toys and TV shows is a factor in Gundam's success and Macross's more moderate success.

But I think it would be interesting to know what, exactly, are the indispensible elements of Macross that need to be repeated/retained in a series in order to satisfy the fanbase.

Mikimoto? Not in M+ or Zero, but maybe that was a mistake.

Idol singers? Well, a music theme is always there.

War as the main background? Not in M+. A mistake?

A big alien army to fight? Not in M+ or Zero. Mistake?

Let's not forget transforming mecha...yeah.

And Protoculture/mystery of life kind of stuff. It's in everything but M+, although it might be possible to form a connection with Sharon.

And a love triangle. Seems to be in every series, though I haven't seen enough of M7 to be sure.

Of the lot, I could really do without the triangles. The repetition is obvious. Some love interest is advisable, though, in the sense that Macross always has an element of Romance.

Personally, I've been weaned off Mikimoto by the excellence of M+ and M0. Yes, I know most of you hate Roy in M0.

War/big bad aliens? Nearly as repetitious as the triangles, and not necessary in my opinion. I think they could take things in another direction if they wanted while keeping a lot of action. Mainly, I think they could do something more exploration-oriented.

Transforming mecha have to be there.

Protoculture is an important background element, and if M0 doesn't exhaust it completely, I think it could be used further. See above re: exploration.

Idol singers: it's a hard plot point to retain without becoming repetitious and ridiculous. M7 and M0 are trying to find a way to connect the music to the Protoculture theme, but how long can they keep it up?

Basically, the main rut Macross is in danger of running into is the "enemy of the week" syndrome, though spread across multiple series. Also the "idol singer of the week" syndrome and the "love triangle of the week". Add in Mikimoto, and you've got Macross II. But maybe with better execution, the could just keep recycling those ideas. I'd prefer to see them use the other key elements, which in my opinion form the real background of the Macross universe instead of clichéd plot points. So that leaves us with transforming mecha and Protoculture. Music has now been more or less explicitly connected to the PC, though. So they might have to retain music as an explicit foreground element. This might be a good thing if the music is good. Otherwise, they'd need to find a way to gently separate music from the protoculture.

[ewilen]

Zero actually had good character-designs on par with the other anime right now. It doesn't have the wow-effect of Gonzo-art, but it's also not as generic and much-abused like Gonzo-art.

Okay, wondering what Gonzo-art is. I guess it's stuff like on this page: http://www.gonzo.co.jp/english/titles/index.html

From those examples, I say: some of it looks nice ('wish you were here') but a lot of it is too big-eyed. Any particular designers? And/or I'm just curious and would appreciate if you could elaborate on the wow-effect.

[EXO]

I actually hate Shin and then there's that girl that looks just like him... what's her purpose in the story...

Mikimoto.. I'm just a big fan

Idol singer, bring back the female vocalist... I like minmay, Sharon Apple and Mylene... it's just a clause to keep out the Basaras...

Bad Ass Aliens... I never said "big". It's just another clause to make sure there huge space warfare and centralize the story on the military aspect. Instead of goddamned bands and camera men.

I think M+ was a special case becasue it was so intimate. But couldn't so a whole mega series based on it. The test flight rivalry would drag too long. It's perfect as it is. A good example of story deviation. But still I would have preferred Mikimoto char design.

Another big deterrence to Macross' popularity is the fact that it can't shake RT from it's tail... the fans are always going to be divided and misinformed. At the point when Macross Plus and Seven came out if they would have made the big "formulaic" sequel (again I stress formulaic elements, not stories) that people wanted then it would have taken the new and nostalgic audience by storm. A lot of people loved M+, but it read like a side story, they hungry for more we got mac7. Which eventually turned a lot of people off... another point of division for the fans.

I applaud Kawamori for his originality, but it sacrifices the solidarity within its fanbase to make it rival to Gundam. I know this may not be important to the froating head but the question was asked and I believe that part of the answer...

IMHO.

[treatment]

Zero actually had good character-designs on par with the other anime right now. It doesn't have the wow-effect of Gonzo-art, but it's also not as generic and much-abused like Gonzo-art.

Okay, wondering what Gonzo-art is. I guess it's stuff like on this page: http://www.gonzo.co.jp/english/titles/index.html

From those examples, I say: some of it looks nice ('wish you were here') but a lot of it is too big-eyed. Any particular designers? And/or I'm just curious and would appreciate if you could elaborate on the wow-effect.

OT, but Gonzo-art is the stuff you see in titles like Full Metal Panic, Kiddy Grade, Gatekeepers, etc, etc. Almost all Gonzo-titles characters look eerily similar to each other. Give or take the differences in clothing and the length/color of hair.

Compared to Mikimoto's work, where Hal's pretty varied in Macross/DYRL, Gundam-0080, and Macross-II/Macross-7.

Edited July 7, 2004 by treatment

[soze]

War is bad m'kay......

Love is good m'kay....

[Mechafan]

Gundam is great! I have seen MSG, MS 08th team, Millers Report, 0080, 0083, Z, X, Chars' CC, Wing, EW, F91, G Savior and SEED. I have and waiting to watch ZZ, and V. Well that is problem #1 with Macross, not enough sequels in a timely fashion and expanded global release.

Gundam releases: http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/index.htm

Notice the Variations and side stories that far exceed the TV shows. Those get merchandising as well.

Macross releases: http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/macross.htm

As you see very few. The bad part is that most only like SDF Macross.

Bandai mainly is a toy company. The Gundam shows sells models and toys. They can take a Gundam and remake it 50 times and still sell it with or with out a TV show. Mobile Suit Variations for example. Even thought X got cut short they release the models this year with out the show being reshow. They can take the same Gundam and market them in different styles and they sell like hot cakes. Look at HLJ Gundam section http://www.hlj.com/scripts/category.cgi?manufacture=gundam Many choices to suit your tastes. Now look at the Macross Section http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljlist.cgi?Ser...ry=SciOth&Dis=2. One section and no categories.

Main problem is how many VF-1's do you really want.

Bandai owns Gundam license. Big west and Harmony Gold are fighting over theirs. Gundam has no hindrance as to getting shows and merchandise to its fans. That is a big factor in its lead over Macross. Me personally am not a show person. I like buying merchandise so Gundam has become my fix. I even started getting Gundams for shows I have never watch and that is powerful. After watching Macross I still mainly get most VF-1's. With me the more powerful the Gundam the better. Example Wing Zero and Freedom.

[tetsujin]

Gundam at its best is great stuff. Zeta in particular was very strong, I think it's incredibly rare for a sequel to turn out so well. There were a lot of cool mechanical designs in Zeta as well.

Gundam in general... these days it really is formulaic, tuned to what people will want. But the thing is, that's effective. Seed had a lot going for it - some good combat, a few nice designs, but above all it was very polished. One of the main things Gundam had going for it before Seed was momentum: it was pretty much the most popular robot show in the early '80s, and now a lot of the people who grew up with it are now adults who remember it fondly - much as a lot of 25-30 year olds in the US fondly remember Transformers. There were a lot of shows in the '90s that tried (and mostly failed) to consume that momentum for more profit - but I think Seed's the first one in a long time to turn that energy into something really impressive.

As for Macross... it's just a different beast. I think that it's done pretty well despite everything. It is popular, but there's no mecha series as popular as Gundam right now. I'm just happy they made Zero. It's great stuff.

[Radd]

I posted this in another forum, but I think it fits for the most part.

Opinions are based on many things.

"Does this have any real merits that appeal to me?"

I believe this ranks very low for most people, as far as their priorities for deciding what they "like" and what they don't.

"Is this popular with others?"

Mob mentality is a very real phenominon. Much of our culture and society is based on this principle. If something gains popularity with enough people, others will join in simply because they are led to believe that it is "cool" to like it. On the other hand, some people will choose to dislike something, despite any merits it may have, simply because the person in question wants to stand apart from the crowd. Further muddying this principle, there are those who will see a growing number of people disliking a show because it's popular, and then they throw in with that crowd because they want to be an individual, but only if it's just like everybody else.

"Was this created by someone who has done other stuff I've ranked highly?"

For some people, there are those who can do no wrong. Perhaps there is a creator that made something they really, really liked. Many will tend to praise everything they do, regardless of how well the actual product is. The same goes for franchises. Look at Star Trek, all the shows are very different and I would argue show a huge gap in quality levels, yet there are those that will stand by all things Trek.

"How old is this?"

Sadly, there are people that will refuse to like anything older than some arbitrarily set date in their minds. Some grow out of this, others don't. Some people only like the hip and trendy flavour of the week. Let's face it, if Naruto was made 20 years ago, it wouldn't have nearly as many fans right now, even if the animation was identicle. It would be old hat.

Then there are those that will only like old anime, and claim quality has gone down considerably since some magical "golden age" that really only ever existed in their own heads.

All this is why lists don't interest me. You could make a new thread on this forum called "list 5 anime titles completely at random!" and it would serve just as much a purpose as any "what's your top 5/what's the 5 worst" threads out there. This is also why I take every review I read with a heavy grain of salt, and won't accept any opinion unless the reviewer gives me a solid viewpoint so that I can relate to their angle. If I know what a reviewer's priorities are, then even if they consistantly write reviews that I disagree with, I can get an idea from them on whether or not I will like something they reviewed.

That isn't the whole answer to Gundam's popularity, though. I kinda have to agree with Graham's sentiments, if Big West had continued to make Macross sequels it would have continued to gain popularity. I doubt it ever would have reached Gundam proportions, though. Gundam has a lot of the 'mob mentality' reason for popularity behind it.

I also think that a part of Gundam's popularity is how it rehashes the same story and characters. People like to see more of the same, but different. People don't like change. At least in general most people are neophobes.

Also, the more you appeal to everyone, the less you appeal to invididuals. "Jack of all trades, master of none" as the saying goes. Still, it's the casual fans that rake in the money for companies. The hardcore fans are always a minority.

[wolfx]

Zero actually had good character-designs on par with the other anime right now. It doesn't have the wow-effect of Gonzo-art, but it's also not as generic and much-abused like Gonzo-art.

Okay, wondering what Gonzo-art is. I guess it's stuff like on this page: http://www.gonzo.co.jp/english/titles/index.html

From those examples, I say: some of it looks nice ('wish you were here') but a lot of it is too big-eyed. Any particular designers? And/or I'm just curious and would appreciate if you could elaborate on the wow-effect.

OT, but Gonzo-art is the stuff you see in titles like Full Metal Panic, Kiddy Grade, Gatekeepers, etc, etc. Almost all Gonzo-titles characters look eerily similar to each other. Give or take the differences in clothing and the length/color of hair.

Compared to Mikimoto's work, where Hal's pretty varied in Macross/DYRL, Gundam-0080, and Macross-II/Macross-7.

The big-eyed GONZO art you were talking about is actually more of Keiji Gotoh's style and art. He was also the one who did designs for Martian Succesor Nadesico. He's not limited to GONZO-only projects though.

[mikeszekely]

Wait, wait... I got it. Let's make a Macross sequel where, after a time, the UN Spacy forces have grown complacent. In the meantime, a colony declares its independence from the UN, and is later take over by a facist family. The facist colony then begins cranking out new VF after new VF, and declares war on the UN. The UN gets their butts served to them on a plate for awhile, but a young ansty genius pilot turns the tide with an incredible new prototype VF. Oh, yeah, he has a mysterious arch-rival (you know he's mysterious because he wears a mask) who, even as he fights for the facists, has his own hidden agenda...

...no? Well, it was just a suggestion.

[Mechafan]

Wait, wait... I got it. Let's make a Macross sequel where, after a time, the UN Spacy forces have grown complacent. In the meantime, a colony declares its independence from the UN, and is later take over by a facist family. The facist colony then begins cranking out new VF after new VF, and declares war on the UN. The UN gets their butts served to them on a plate for awhile, but a young ansty genius pilot turns the tide with an incredible new prototype VF. Oh, yeah, he has a mysterious arch-rival (you know he's mysterious because he wears a mask) who, even as he fights for the facists, has his own hidden agenda...

You forget the dropping of an old Zentraedi battle ships onto the surface of the earth and young pilot with his new super fast VF takes it out with one shot with his Beam cannon. The pilot who of course falls in love with a female enemy pilot.

Not at bad plot it been working for Bandai.

[GRAND CANNON]

What drew me to Gundam and hooked me on it, was the exact same thing that drew me to Macross, the mechanical designs and fight scenes.

Grew up on Star Blazers, Mazinger, and Force Five. Briefly saw some Macross stuff at Mr. Big's Toyland (MA) when grabbing some Shogun Warriors. When RT aired, it was a shock and awe attack. Amazing mecha and long connected episodes like what I wanted since Star Blazers. After years of watching beat-up VHS tapes of recorded episodes....Macross Plus arrives and it's all re-kindled again. Somewhere in between, "Gundam" was mentioned with something about "super-size robots"........

Late '90s and Gundam items turn up on eBay when I'm looking for Dougram stuff...oooh. And thus it began. Hunting down subbed VHS tapes of series and getting hooked on the mecha combat and the "saga" stories. DVDs come to fruition and I'm introduced to bad subs on HK boots, but so what, I want to see everything Gundam........regardless of repetitive story plots or similar mobile suits....I mean this stuff is cool!

Guess it comes down to the basics -- what you like.....some can only watch one series - others have to see all. Same with Macross, some can only watch SDF-Macross or DYRL while others need to see everything related (even the infamous RT because that's what started "the itch").

But I digress............

As far as popularity here in the States or I guess the Boston area.....I personally believe that only a small amount of persons were familiar with Gundam until the lovely butchery of Wing on Cartoon Network......then the explosion hit.....and the rest is history......

If Macross had a TV revival as well as an insane amount of follow-on or side stories, I think we'd see a 50-foot tall VF-1S on the left and a 50-foot tall RX-78 on the right of a mega Gundam/Macross store in Japan.

And BTW to whoever mentioned this above....I agree.....08th MS Team's take on ground combat (my fave ) and 0080's different p.o.v. is what sets them apart.

[azrael]

I have 2 words for you people:

Good marketing.

[Californium]

a bit OT perhaps...

I've never seen M0, and maybe M0 is already everything I'm thinking of...

But I always thought it would be interesting to base a Macross series loosely on The Right Stuff, with all the humor and competition therein. An alien ship has crashed and is soon to be re-launched with a human crew. So now there's a competition to crew it with the UN's best pilots, with only so many slots to fill for the last of so many squadrons which it will carry. (certain other squadrons were guaranteed space on the craft as a result of treaties between some of the larger nations launching the thing. This last squadron would be a dream team of sorts, and could feature pilots from nations which otherwise would remain unrepresented...) And while competing they would be testing the latest hardware, various prototype fighters, valks, and destroids, sometimes with horrid results. And every once in a while, "The russians, they did it again!"

Of course now, with M0 and M+, that territory has already been covered one way or another.

[Graham]

Some great replys, thanks guys.

In case I gave the wrong impression in my initial post, I just want to state that I'm not a Gundam hater. I also don't love it, but I do feel that some titles are worthy of respect and are genuine classics of the genre, especially IMO 0080 & CCA and should be on every serious mecha anime fans 'must see' list. I also like 08MST & V.

And just for the record, I have watched every UC title. I haven't watched much of the AU stuff. I tried watching Wing, G, Turn A, X and SEED but couldn't sit through the whole series.

And when I refer to gundam as being samey or forumlaic and cliched I'm not referring to the 'war is bad' theme that pervades much of it but rather smaller issues that seem to be recycled throughout many of the shows, such as: -

• The number of times that we have a blond bad guy, usually wearing a domino mask or helmet to hide his face.
  
• The number of times that the mother and/or father of the main character is the designer of the Gundam.
  
• The number of times that we have an angst-ridden teenage boy with no military or piloting experience become the most kick-ass pilot within the space of a few episodes, without any sort of formal training except maybe flicking through the MS instruction manual for 5 seconds.
  
• The number of times that Okawara recycles his MS designs
  
• The number of times that we have a colony drop or gassing.
  

Many of the above points I've listed are repeated in so many different Gundam shows, that Gundam for the most part losses all credibility and believability with me.

Graham

[Isamu Atreides 86]

And when I refer to gundam as being samey or forumlaic and cliched I'm not referring to the 'war is bad' theme that pervades much of it but rather smaller issues that seem to be recycled throughout many of the shows, such as: -

• The number of times that we have a blond bad guy, usually wearing a domino mask or helmet to hide his face.
  
• The number of times that the mother and/or father of the main character is the designer of the Gundam.
  
• The number of times that we have an angst-ridden teenage boy with no military or piloting experience become the most kick-ass pilot within the space of a few episodes, without any sort of formal training except maybe flicking through the MS instruction manual for 5 seconds.
  
• The number of times that Okawara recycles his MS designs 
  
• The number of times that we have a colony drop or gassing.
  

Graham

08th i don't think has any of those things, though i may be wrong...

Shiro is a soldier, with training, albeit he is a rookie. he struggles all the way until the end with being a good MS pilot. no gassings or drops, but there is one big ass particle beam that kills a lot of feddies. Shiro's parents have no bearing on the story, i don't think, and the Ez-8 he uses is a battlefield tech job, that they came up with in the field. oh and i don't think Aina's brother wears a mask, even though i think hes blond

i think maybe because it escapes the usual Gundam Syptoms, i like it so much.

Edited July 8, 2004 by Isamu Atreides 86

[wolfx]

Love the grunt Gundams of 8th MS team. No more SUPER GUNDAMS for a change.

[Stamen0083]

Love the grunt Gundams of 8th MS team. No more SUPER GUNDAMS for a change.

UC Gundam has never been SUPER GUNDAM.

The first Gundam was blown to bits in the end. It managed to stay alive for so long because the pilot is a NewType.

The Gundam Mk-II sortied with one arm once.

There's a whole poo load of V Gundams, and a few are shot down and destroyed more than once in the first few episodes alone.

The Gundam Alex was decapitated by a heat hawk.

You don't see lots of Gundam gets blown to bits because Gundams are the stars of the show. Destroying a Gundam is like having your beloved Roy or Hikaru getting his ass blown up in a Valkyrie.

[Graham]

Yep, 08MST is one title that manages to avoid every cliche of the Gundam universe, that's probably why I like it as well.

But for realisms sake, I still would have prefered the RX-79G to be camoflaged. I mean an 18m tall red white and blue robot does tend to be a bit obvious in Jungle or desert warfare

Graham

[Mechafan]

• The number of times that we have an angst-ridden teenage boy with no military or piloting experience become the most kick-ass pilot within the space of a few episodes, without any sort of formal training except maybe flicking through the MS instruction manual for 5 seconds.
  
• The number of times that Okawara recycles his MS designs 
  

I kinda like those points. On the issue of Wing, G, Turn A, X and SEED, I would say most of them are good. G Gundam I was not too fond of, saw that on CN and Turn A I have not seen yet.

Love the grunt Gundams of 8th MS team. No more SUPER GUNDAMS for a change. 

I like it when you can take out multiple foes with one shot.

But for realisms sake, I still would have prefered the RX-79G to be camoflaged. I mean an 18m tall red white and blue robot does tend to be a bit obvious in Jungle or desert warfare

In Bandai's marketing strategy. They sold the normal version and a desert version in MSIA form. Man I ment to get the desert one when I saw it.

Edited July 8, 2004 by Mechafan

[SpacePirateNeko]

graham this is something i dont get either..but what really annoys me is how in the last 5 or so years hobby japan has become hobby gundam...i mean how often do you see a non gundam cover anymore...and the book is now 75% gundam.

It also bothers me that when i go into a model store all i find is 2000 gundam models and maybe 3 models from another series...i miss mandarake =(

[Stamen0083]

But for realisms sake, I still would have prefered the RX-79G to be camoflaged. I mean an 18m tall red white and blue robot does tend to be a bit obvious in Jungle or desert warfare 

Admittedly, that is the ONE thing that really irks me about Gundam.

Which is why some people build them in alternate color schemes. Katoki had a great start with a gunship gray ZetaPlus C1.

But what do red and blue Valkyries say, though? Certainly not "Shoot me, I'm obviously the group leader."

You think Hobby Japan is bad? Dengeki Hobby is practically owned by Bandai.

Not that I'm complaining :-P

Edited July 8, 2004 by Stamen0083

[Graham]

graham this is something i dont get either..but what really annoys me is how in the last 5 or so years hobby japan has become hobby gundam...i mean how often do you see a non gundam cover anymore...and the book is now 75% gundam.

It also bothers me that when i go into a model store all i find is 2000 gundam models and maybe 3 models from another series...i miss mandarake =(

LOL....'Hobby Gundam', is also my nickname for Hobby Japan!

Graham

[Lightning]

What drew me to Gundam and hooked me on it, was the exact same thing that drew me to Macross, the mechanical designs and fight scenes.

Amen, the only good thing that even held my interest in GW was the Heavyarms (all versions)

[Jolly Rogers]

But for realisms sake, I still would have prefered the RX-79G to be camoflaged. I mean an 18m tall red white and blue robot does tend to be a bit obvious in Jungle or desert warfare

No amount of camo is gonna hide a 18 meter tall mobile suit. Trust me on that.

As for Hobby Gundam, they started kissing Bandai's ass when Dengeki Hobby Magazine came to the scene. Nothing like competition to change one's ways. Hobby Japan used to take the high road and wouldn't allow Bandai to interfere with the JAFCONs they organized. They did a 180 after losing Bandai's favor to Dengeki and allowed Bandai to have a say in JAFCON affairs since the late 1990s, which ultimately led to the popular convention's demise.

[Lightning]

But for realisms sake, I still would have prefered the RX-79G to be camoflaged. I mean an 18m tall red white and blue robot does tend to be a bit obvious in Jungle or desert warfare 

No amount of camo is gonna hide a 18 meter tall mobile suit. Trust me on that.

Amen on that one too!

[Graham]

But if I understand correctly, the magic Minovsky particles are supposed to block IR and Radar (as well as doing a million other things), which means that a Mobile Suit's heat and Radar signature would not be visible using either Radar or Thermal Imaging systems such as IRST, FLIR etc. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, as my understanding of Minovsky Particle Physics is shaky at best.

Does this mean that in theory a Mobile Suit could be as hot as the sun, but if the area were saturated with enough Minovsky particles than a person standing just 10 feet away from the Mobile suit and looking through a hand-held thermal imager would not be able to see the heat signature of the MS?

If my above assumptions are correct, then this means that the only way to detect a Mobile Suit would be by (A) visual identification, i.e somebody actually seeing it "hey, look guys there's a 18m tall MS walking down the road towards us". (B) Motion sensors, which are usually short range or ( C) seismic sensors as shown in 08MST.

Given that somebody actually seeing a Mobile Suit will probably be the most common way it is detected, then camoflage will still make a certain amount of sense. Yes, an 18M talll MS is hard to hide, but a Green Zaku in a Jungle will still be a bit harder to see then a white, blue & red Gundam in a jungle and every extra second that you can stay hidden will help.

The most common things that cause soldiers to be detected are movement, shape, shine, colour, spacing & silhouette, so anything that can be done to lessen these will help.

Graham

[Stamen0083]

But if I understand correctly, the magic Minovsky particles are supposed to block IR and Radar (as well as doing a million other things), which means that a Mobile Suit's heat and Radar signature would not be visible using either Radar or Thermal Imaging systems such as IRST, FLIR etc. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, as my understanding of Minovsky Particle Physics is shaky at best.

Does this mean that in theory a Mobile Suit could be as hot as the sun, but if the area were saturated with enough Minovsky particles than a person standing just 10 feet away from the Mobile suit and looking through a hand-held thermal imager would not be able to see the heat signature of the MS?

Minovksy particles only blocks a small range of the IR spectrum. It's most effective against radar. There's still a fair bit of IR that it can't cover.

If my above assumptions are correct, then this means that the only way to detect a Mobile Suit would be by (A) visual identification, i.e somebody actually seeing it "hey, look guys there's a 18m tall MS walking down the road towards us". (B) Motion sensors, which are usually short range or ( C) seismic sensors as shown in 08MST.

Correct. Image recognition systems in MS Gundam are very sophisticated. The camera looks at an MS, and looks through a database and identifies the MS it sees.

08th MS Team uses sonar detector.

Given that somebody actually seeing a Mobile Suit will probably be the most common way it is detected, then camoflage will still make a certain amount of sense. Yes, an 18M talll MS is hard to hide, but a Green Zaku in a Jungle will still be a bit harder to see then a white, blue & red Gundam in a jungle and every extra second that you can stay hidden will help.

The most common things that cause soldiers to be detected are movement, shape, shine, colour, spacing & silhouette, so anything that can be done to lessen these will help.

Gundam is stupid this way. I agree.

What else you got?

[Graham]

Minovksy particles only blocks a small range of the IR spectrum. It's most effective against radar. There's still a fair bit of IR that it can't cover.

If Minovsky particles can't block a Mobile Suit's heat signature, then I wonder why IR homing (heat seeking) missiles are not used in the Gundam universe?

Graham

[Mechafan]

Here is link for you Graham.

Minovsky Theory

[Graham]

Here is link for you Graham.

Minovsky Theory

Just had a brief read through that, but can't find any mention of Minovsky particles blocking the IR spectrum.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

Hmmn. Says it blocks low-frequency stuff, and partially affects IR. IR is high-frequency. (Well, not HIGH, but much higher than radio/radar) But that also means IR attentuates more and is inherently easier to mess with. (Which is why there are no long-range heat-seeking missiles).

Best defense against IR seekers: rain and fog.

Edited July 8, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Stamen0083]

If Minovsky particles can't block a Mobile Suit's heat signature, then I wonder why IR homing (heat seeking) missiles are not used in the Gundam universe?

They never gave a formal explanation. I don't really want to rationalize it either. I just chalk it up as one of those things wrong with the Gundam universe that I would fix if I had the money to reanimate MSG.

[Jolly Rogers]

I think in Zeonic Front, heat sensor/IR is actually one of the ways you can ID potential hostiles on the field, although it is not a very reliable indicator and you need to use a combination of sensor/detecting methods as none of them are 100% accurate/reliable.