Macross Zero

[Agent ONE]

...if I want robots and no story I'll watch Gundam...

Sounds to me like you've never even seen a drop of Gundam.

If you haven't seen it, don't insult it.

I've seen Gundam and thats the way I feel about it... But we aren't talking about Gundam.

[Backstabber]

Anyone know what that thing is that was shown after the animals, directly after the frog? Speculation is birdman's head since it's body shimmered with the same kind of light or was it a crashed VF-0 turining to rock? It kind of looked like VF-1A head on top or did all VF-0's have four mountings? Whatever it is what was happening there?

No ideas?

[ewilen]

The timecode is 25:52 in the raw (DivX) version I have. I think it's the birdman's head but it's really hard to tell. Definitely not a battroid.

[ewilen]

Hm. Started a post on magic and technology in Macross but I think it's best to start a new thread.

[Backstabber]

So that is it's giant eyeball to the right? Thanks for the pic Ewilen!

[tetsujin]

Ok.... something here bothers me. I don't understand how people can have such a difficult time accepting floating rocks when they can accept a 3/4 mile tall hologram hypnotizing an entire city. Sharon Apple did equally fantastic things with just as little explination (ok, I can accept a Hologram program around the Macross itself, even if only installed for the concert... but a FREE ROAMING hologram? All across the city? Creating holograms out of simple glass? Capable of projecting itself INSIDE the cockpit of a fighter where no projector exists?)

Get real people.... despite its technical roots, Macross is all about the fantastic. One of its primary story hooks (one of the few things I agree with Keith on) is that it's about the power of music... and the energy that comes from within during said music.

Pure speculation on my part, BUT:

Sharon was able to manipulate simple coaxial wires to suspend and strangle Myung

They weren't "simple coaxial wires". They're shown in an earlier scene connecting themselves to the appropriate receptacles. It's a robotic convenience feature. And the YF-19 did have video screens through the whole cockpit, a Gundam-style panoramic monitor. It's not beyond reason to assume the panels can create the illusion of depth. It's also not unreasonable to expect that projection techology 40 years in the future will be rather more advanced than what we have now, regardless of whether an alien starship is cannibalized for its secrets.

(And please, no apostrophe on posessive "its"... it's hard to look at.)

[ewilen]

So that is it's giant eyeball to the right? Thanks for the pic Ewilen!

Okay, it's definitely the head, but that's not the eye. The thing can transform quite radically. There's a scene where we see it do so as it leaves the underwater cave. The eye is apparently inside the "front" end. Here's a picture that confirms that the thing in the forest is the head. It's from when Shin goes underwater to save the head from the Octos.

[treatment]

The timecode is 25:52 in the raw (DivX) version I have. I think it's the birdman's head but it's really hard to tell. Definitely not a battroid.

it is.

here's a cut from the R2's designworks pamphlet.

[ewilen]

Looks quite Zentradi-ish doesn't it?

[wolfx]

The timecode is 25:52 in the raw (DivX) version I have. I think it's the birdman's head but it's really hard to tell. Definitely not a battroid.

it is.

here's a cut from the R2's designworks pamphlet.

And I was about to say its a downed SV-51.....

[azrael]

Looks quite Zentradi-ish doesn't it?

Well it is Protoculture-based.....like the Zentradi....

[ewilen]

Yeah, I just like the stylistic connection. It sort of looks like a cross between a Gnerl fighter pod and Britai's ship.

Edit: Although, viewed from the side, it reminds me of Bodolza's (DYRL) fortress.

Edited June 10, 2004 by ewilen

[Graham]

Creating holograms out of simple glass? Capable of projecting itself INSIDE the cockpit of a fighter where no projector exists?)

Actually, holographic Heads Up Displays (HUDs) have existed in VFs since the Block 6 cockpit design of the VF-1 shown in DYRL, where targeting and other data is holographically projected inside and all around the canopy. Only the VF-0 and the block 5 (TV type) VF-1 use a conventional glass HUD.

Another example of the holographic HUD is clearly seen in the VF-11B's cockpit in the opening fight of episode # 1 of Macross Plus, when the position of the missiles fired by the renegade Powered suit is shown projected inside Isamu's canopy.

Assuming Sharon Apple could at least partially hack into the YF-19's systems, it would probably be simple for her to take control of the YF-19's holographic HUD projector and project her image inside the YF-19's cockpit.

Graham

[the white drew carey]

Just watched it.

Nice story.

Horrible cel animation. Bad consistency with the characters designs and blending of cel and CGI.

Very disjointed in the story telling.

Probably weakest episode yet.

Still good, though. Can't wait for finale.

[Oihan]

I just hope we get to see the SDF-1, and a VF-1 in the last episode.

[John Focker]

The timecode is 25:52 in the raw (DivX) version I have. I think it's the birdman's head but it's really hard to tell. Definitely not a battroid.

it is.

here's a cut from the R2's designworks pamphlet.

The module at the middle of the top side REALLY resembles the YF-21/VF-22's head. Not surprising since the YF-21/VF-22 carry heavy Zentradi style cues, which in turn, are Protoculture-based.

[MAXXxxx]

The timecode is 25:52 in the raw (DivX) version I have. I think it's the birdman's head but it's really hard to tell. Definitely not a battroid.

it is.

here's a cut from the R2's designworks pamphlet.

if you have all 4 R2 DVDs , then could you please scan in all the designworks pamphlets? (at around 300dpi if possible)

it would be really great, thanks.

[Sundown]

Just saw it. Was okay.

SPOILERS!!

Good points: More character development. But it seemed almost forced-- as if Kawamori had been browsing the MW forums and noting the amount of folks clamoring for "more character development"... then set to cramming as much of it in as possible. It's just a lot all at once, when there was so little of it before (that you could really hook onto, anyway)-- and it's a little bit late in the game. At least he's trying, though it's fitting akwardly.

Sara redeems herself bunches here. I strongly disliked her as a character in the last three episodes, since I hate "modern civilization bad-- machines evil-- sing to the birds-- can you paint with the colors of the wind?" type characters. But Sara proved to be more than that-- her simplistic reaction to all things modern actually comes from guilt over her own complicity with Professor Hasford, and because she blames herself for the strife that afflicts the island. This is good. She's the same as everyone else inside... and her struggle and behavior borns out of that. Also good. Pleasantly surprised. Now I don't feel so inconsistent for actually liking my CM2 Sara figure.

Shin almost begins to be likeable-- but I keep thinking they should have showed more of his joking nature earlier on. Instead, he'd been plodding through the last 3 episodes as if he was dead inside. Was a vaguely nice touch to have him start singing-- now only if the cicada had promptly grown dim, shrivelled up, died, and dropped off the leaf when he did. That would have been gold.

Roy's, well, roy. And Aires is Aires. It was obvious they were trying to give Roy a Roy-and-Claudia-esque moment, and Shin a Hikaru-and-Minmei moment. Except Aires isn't Claudia, and neither is Shin Hikaru. So everything felt a little canned, even though I appreciated the attempt. I just found it hard to believe that Roy would care to be a pilot because he saw some bird-a-saur. But it's a nice line with the ladies-- with hot palientologist ladies anyway. The mine scene was classic Roy, though... even though the pacing and camera was weird, and the cuts didn't flow or feel right-- but this is really just nitpicky director wannabe aspirations talking.

The flying totem thing didn't bother me all that much, only because I'd been forewarned. What bothered me more was the fact that Shin's first reaction was to jump on a freaky flying rock. Then again, I guess he'd seen flying rocks before, and reasoned if it was Sara making it fly, it couldn't have been all bad. Still. Freaky flying rock. My first reaction wouldn't have been to hop atop it.

A little bit lame that they didn't bother to explain why the totem was flying about-- I was half hoping that there was actually a protoculture device of some type encrusted inside. Because that would have almost made sense, and been vaguely cool. But no dice... just freaky flying rocks of the normal variety. There's been too much freaky with too little explaination or hinting. I'm not big on this style of presentation, especially with Macross... and we're running out of episodes to clear things up.

Kawamorrriii--- you gots 'splaaainin' to dooo.

-Al

[bsu legato]

Shin almost begins to be likeable-- but I keep thinking they should have showed more of his joking nature earlier on. Instead, he'd been plodding through the last 3 episodes as if he was dead inside.

But what if I argued that Shin had indeed been all dead inside, and that it was his contact with Sara over the past 4 episodes that have healed him? He tells Sara that she's been so busy healing everybody else that she hasn't healed herself....why not include Shin in there somewhere?

[Sundown]

Shin almost begins to be likeable-- but I keep thinking they should have showed more of his joking nature earlier on.  Instead, he'd been plodding through the last 3 episodes as if he was dead inside.

But what if I argued that Shin had indeed been all dead inside, and that it was his contact with Sara over the past 4 episodes that have healed him? He tells Sara that she's been so busy healing everybody else that she hasn't healed herself....why not include Shin in there somewhere?

Guess that could be... but if it needs arguing for, rather than being made apparent in the narrative itself, then it points to something missing in the storytelling. It's pretty abrupt, either way-- Shin transformed from a vaguely annoying character without much personality or capacity for levity-- to someone much warmer and possessing an actual sense of humor. I would personally have preferred to see hints of these traits in pre-Sara and pre-Mao Shin, ie, joking more darkly and sarcastically with Edgar, or making the same sort of poignant observations about people around him, but through darker and more pessimistic eyes. Seems it'd make for more convincing development that way-- rather than transforming abruptly from "Every hates me, nobody likes me, you trust anyone and YOU DIE," Shin to love-happy-joking-sensitive-observant Shin.

What I mean is that it's obvious Sara's affected Shin and is responsible for his new outlook. Floating rocks and boobies do that. But the actual transformation isn't as compelling as it could have been-- Shin seems to have traded personalities with someone in the matter of a single episode, rather than simply seeing things differently now than from before.

-Al

[bsu legato]

But the actual transformation isn't as compelling as it could have been-- Shin seems to have traded personalities with someone in the matter of a single episode, rather than simply seeing things differently now than from before.

Fair enough. Perhaps we should just chalk it up to yet another anime character getting shortchanged by the OVA format.

[Effect]

I finally got a chance to watch episode 4. Honestly I didn't like it that much, at least when compared with the first 3 episodes. I'm hoping the final episode is much better. The bombing/nuking of the island was interesting.

Though I really wish things would move along faster though. Much the series seems to be about showing off the animation but not so much on the story and when they do get to the story they cram so much into to small of a space. I have to say my like of the show has decreased over the releases I'm afraid to say.

[Jawjaw]

I've only watched the DVD version - no subtitles - and it does look like ep 4 is the weakest chapter so far. However, I am still really enjoying the series. Maybe it's shallow, but I just love looking at the art and animation. It is simply the best I have ever seen. The story seems good enough IMO - not the best, but not the worst either. I agree that the story could speed up a little but I guess that might rocket up the production costs.

[Agent ONE]

.... I agree that the story could speed up a little but I guess that might rocket up the production costs.

It all depends on how they end it... If they are leaving a ton of stuff hanging just so in the very end we all go "OHHHHH!!!! NOW I GET IT!!!" and it somehow ties all Macross works together then the slowness will be worth it.

[Oihan]

Shin almost begins to be likeable-- but I keep thinking they should have showed more of his joking nature earlier on.  Instead, he'd been plodding through the last 3 episodes as if he was dead inside.

But what if I argued that Shin had indeed been all dead inside, and that it was his contact with Sara over the past 4 episodes that have healed him? He tells Sara that she's been so busy healing everybody else that she hasn't healed herself....why not include Shin in there somewhere?

Guess that could be... but if it needs arguing for, rather than being made apparent in the narrative itself, then it points to something missing in the storytelling. It's pretty abrupt, either way-- Shin transformed from a vaguely annoying character without much personality or capacity for levity-- to someone much warmer and possessing an actual sense of humor. I would personally have preferred to see hints of these traits in pre-Sara and pre-Mao Shin, ie, joking more darkly and sarcastically with Edgar, or making the same sort of poignant observations about people around him, but through darker and more pessimistic eyes. Seems it'd make for more convincing development that way-- rather than transforming abruptly from "Every hates me, nobody likes me, you trust anyone and YOU DIE," Shin to love-happy-joking-sensitive-observant Shin.

What I mean is that it's obvious Sara's affected Shin and is responsible for his new outlook. Floating rocks and boobies do that. But the actual transformation isn't as compelling as it could have been-- Shin seems to have traded personalities with someone in the matter of a single episode, rather than simply seeing things differently now than from before.

-Al

I thought Shin's character development was gradual, and not instantaneous.... As for the flying totem, there are two circle looking things under the totem that glow...I'm guessing it's what's keeping it afloat.

...The way I look at things with the flying rocks and stuff. When Sara sang, everything came to life... Music coming from her has that kind of power. Just like when Minmay sang and confused the Zentran...and brought peace, so to say. It's the power in their voice...one could say. Her voice made the rocks float...etc...... Isn't it what Macross is about though? Music, Love, Mecha? That being the case, I don't see a damn thing wrong with Macross Zero.

Edited June 11, 2004 by Oihan

[Sundown]

I thought Shin's character development was gradual, and not instantaneous.... As for the flying totem, there are two circle looking things under the totem that glow...I'm guessing it's what's keeping it afloat.

...The way I look at things with the flying rocks and stuff. When Sara sang, everything came to life... Music coming from her has that kind of power. Just like when Minmay sang and confused the Zentran...and brought peace, so to say. It's the power in their voice...one could say. Her voice made the rocks float...etc...... Isn't it what Macross is about though? Music, Love, Mecha? That being the case, I don't see a damn thing wrong with Macross Zero.

Just would have liked to see more of the Shin-- now with levity, even in the first episodes, especially since he'd been joking about pranks he'd pulled in the past.

Didn't notice the glowy deals under the totem. Need to look closer.

The flying rocks stuff doesn't really compare that directly with Zentran culture-shock in lots of folks minds. Yes, singing is the vehicle that produces the effect. But one's psychological (albiet dealing with alien psychology, and if we ignore any M7 retconning), and one is, well... magical. Unless it's explained more clearly, or it's alluded to, how singing could cause rocks to defy the force of gravitation.

Maybe the SDF-1's anti-grav pods, the ones "made on Earth" are just metal cylinders with a gaggle of Mayans stuffed inside, under threat of no soup if they don't sing.

-Al

[Nani?!]

I've only watched the DVD version - no subtitles - and it does look like ep 4 is the weakest chapter so far. However, I am still really enjoying the series. Maybe it's shallow, but I just love looking at the art and animation. It is simply the best I have ever seen. The story seems good enough IMO - not the best, but not the worst either. I agree that the story could speed up a little but I guess that might rocket up the production costs.

agreed.

I also don't like the weirdness of how the story is evolving. Like all the birdman stuff and sara's blood, etc, etc... kinda makes macross more unrealistic. more magic-y then it was before... ackk.. just my opinon

But as far as visuals, I think it's spec-friggin-tacular. I love the animation and the visual effects. The sound and music is also good.

I think i'll have to wait and see the final episode if this is my favorite macross series over my current fav, macross plus. For that to happen the final has to be nothing short of kick ass.

[wolfx]

Random stuff my friend picked up when he slow-moed the battle scenes frame by frame:

1.) When focker was diving for his gunpod, his hands came out in fighter mode without the legs coming out 1st. This is impossible for the VF-1. Perhaps the VF-0 has a different transformation?

2.) Roy's head lasers can take out an Octo-pod, but Shin's lasers can't scratch Nora's SV-51. When Nora flew under Shin, Shin fired a few times with his head laser at her. Watch frame by frame, and you can see Shin hit Nora 3-4 times just outside the canopy area but it sparks and leaves a searing burn mark but otherwise no damage. Uber armor on the SV-51? (owe it to the russians to come up with variable stumorviks) Or VF-0A Head laser sucks?

[BlueMax]

Random stuff my friend picked up when he slow-moed the battle scenes frame by frame:

1.) When focker was diving for his gunpod, his hands came out in fighter mode without the legs coming out 1st. This is impossible for the VF-1. Perhaps the VF-0 has a different transformation?

2.) Roy's head lasers can take out an Octo-pod, but Shin's lasers can't scratch Nora's SV-51. When Nora flew under Shin, Shin fired a few times with his head laser at her. Watch frame by frame, and you can see Shin hit Nora 3-4 times just outside the canopy area but it sparks and leaves a searing burn mark but otherwise no damage. Uber armor on the SV-51? (owe it to the russians to come up with variable stumorviks) Or VF-0A Head laser sucks?

For 1..... no answer to that.

For 2, if you look closely, the first one was knocked off balance by the VF-0S, the second, was probably damaged my Roy's laser detonating one of the Octos's missles right after launch. After which both probably destroyed by Roy's mecha exploding.

[ewilen]

Shin also damages and Octos with his head laser while underwater. (The scene shows the head laser has rifling grooves!? Anyway...)

Probably both the SV-51 and VF-0 have SWAG armor, while the Octos lacks it.

Or, in general, destroids of all types are rigged to explode on contact...

[Aegis!]

To all those who dissaprove the flying rocks elements have any of you ever noticed that the only rocks to fly when sara sings are those with printed glowing diagrams on it ?

and strangely enough we only see flying rocks in ¨religious spots¨ around the island and NOT in other places ?

Only a fool wouldn´t notice the conection there with protoculture technology

The saddest thing of all is that Kawamori will have to come out with an explanation of the OVAs after they´re finished for the dumb fans.

[Final Vegeta]

I have slipped this addition on the Compedium about Ivanov:

In addition, he was initially the chief test pilot of the VF test unit series, and so it is said that he defected to the Anti-United Nations forces carrying the VF-0's development data.

That explains something.

FV

[Radd]

Shin almost begins to be likeable-- but I keep thinking they should have showed more of his joking nature earlier on.  Instead, he'd been plodding through the last 3 episodes as if he was dead inside.

But what if I argued that Shin had indeed been all dead inside, and that it was his contact with Sara over the past 4 episodes that have healed him? He tells Sara that she's been so busy healing everybody else that she hasn't healed herself....why not include Shin in there somewhere?

Guess that could be... but if it needs arguing for, rather than being made apparent in the narrative itself, then it points to something missing in the storytelling. It's pretty abrupt, either way-- Shin transformed from a vaguely annoying character without much personality or capacity for levity-- to someone much warmer and possessing an actual sense of humor. I would personally have preferred to see hints of these traits in pre-Sara and pre-Mao Shin, ie, joking more darkly and sarcastically with Edgar, or making the same sort of poignant observations about people around him, but through darker and more pessimistic eyes. Seems it'd make for more convincing development that way-- rather than transforming abruptly from "Every hates me, nobody likes me, you trust anyone and YOU DIE," Shin to love-happy-joking-sensitive-observant Shin.

What I mean is that it's obvious Sara's affected Shin and is responsible for his new outlook. Floating rocks and boobies do that. But the actual transformation isn't as compelling as it could have been-- Shin seems to have traded personalities with someone in the matter of a single episode, rather than simply seeing things differently now than from before.

-Al

I think you're rather exaggerating Shin's personality early in the series, with a bend towards his unhappier side. We get to see the joking, smiling Shin from the first episode on. If anything, I'd argue that Shin seems manic-depressive in every episode. While he doesn't get as much character developement as he would in a full tv series, I've at least been impressed that they dropped the cold, emotionless anime-hero archetype fairly early into the first episode.

[Aegis!]

Shin almost begins to be likeable-- but I keep thinking they should have showed more of his joking nature earlier on.  Instead, he'd been plodding through the last 3 episodes as if he was dead inside.

But what if I argued that Shin had indeed been all dead inside, and that it was his contact with Sara over the past 4 episodes that have healed him? He tells Sara that she's been so busy healing everybody else that she hasn't healed herself....why not include Shin in there somewhere?

Guess that could be... but if it needs arguing for, rather than being made apparent in the narrative itself, then it points to something missing in the storytelling. It's pretty abrupt, either way-- Shin transformed from a vaguely annoying character without much personality or capacity for levity-- to someone much warmer and possessing an actual sense of humor. I would personally have preferred to see hints of these traits in pre-Sara and pre-Mao Shin, ie, joking more darkly and sarcastically with Edgar, or making the same sort of poignant observations about people around him, but through darker and more pessimistic eyes. Seems it'd make for more convincing development that way-- rather than transforming abruptly from "Every hates me, nobody likes me, you trust anyone and YOU DIE," Shin to love-happy-joking-sensitive-observant Shin.

What I mean is that it's obvious Sara's affected Shin and is responsible for his new outlook. Floating rocks and boobies do that. But the actual transformation isn't as compelling as it could have been-- Shin seems to have traded personalities with someone in the matter of a single episode, rather than simply seeing things differently now than from before.

-Al

I think you're rather exaggerating Shin's personality early in the series, with a bend towards his unhappier side. We get to see the joking, smiling Shin from the first episode on. If anything, I'd argue that Shin seems manic-depressive in every episode. While he doesn't get as much character developement as he would in a full tv series, I've at least been impressed that they dropped the cold, emotionless anime-hero archetype fairly early into the first episode.

Exactly , if Shin was your common emotionless anime-hero archetype he wouldn´t have reactioned to Edgar absence or when they met in Asuka again.

[Black Valkyrie]

May be a VF-1 Low-Viz will appear in the last episode who knows !