Valkyire fighting space monster!

[EXO]

Macross 7 should have been based around Sivil. All Sivil, all the time. But then again there would have been a few episodes where she floated still in that orb... yeah, that would have been more interesting to watch....

[Tokyo Cab Driver]

On a diffrent note. Did Macross 7 do well in Japan? I don't think it was a huge hit but I had this feeling that they still raked in some cash from the series.

[Impreszive]

"Agree to disagree and move on with your lives folks, this argument is rip van winkle old and not getting any fresher and there are a lot of us out here in the ether that are sick of it coming up like vomit all the time and playing out the same way every time."

Unfortunately, you would have to change the very nature of Fanboyism. I've been around enough anime freaks to know that they can't drop it; ever. I suppose there is always the option of just ignoring the posts, but they seem to permeate everything in here, no matter the topic.

Christ. I've been in this forum about 2 weeks and I see it very clearly.

How can you drop an "I hate M7!" slam into something about a video game, etc etc!?

I'm here because I like Macross. Plain and simple. I think that's what most of the posters here joined up for as well. Take this guy's advice and drop it or leave it in one forum so you can have your arguments without ruining other, more important topics.

Thanks.

engage flamer postings.....

[Agent ONE]

On a diffrent note. Did Macross 7 do well in Japan? I don't think it was a huge hit but I had this feeling that they still raked in some cash from the series.

Sorta, but just with little kids, which after all was its target audience.

It would never do well here, it would have to compete with other shows that teach kids to be sissies, like Barney, Teletubies, and other shows I think should be nuked.

[bsu legato]

On a diffrent note. Did Macross 7 do well in Japan? I don't think it was a huge hit but I had this feeling that they still raked in some cash from the series.

Sorta, but just with little kids, which after all was its target audience.

I betcha it sold a lot of CDs, though.

[treatment]

On a diffrent note. Did Macross 7 do well in Japan? I don't think it was a huge hit but I had this feeling that they still raked in some cash from the series.

It probably did during it's time before EVA.

Then it got clobbered severely and handed it's ass on a paper-plate by Neon Genesis EVA. And then buried forever by Nadesico.

[Druna Skass]

Macross 7 should have been based around Sivil. All Sivil, all the time. But then again there would have been a few episodes where she floated still in that orb... yeah, that would have been more interesting to watch....

A one of the few good things about Macross 7...

[Noyhauser]

Sorta, but just with little kids, which after all was its target audience.

Can you provide facts prove your assertion that to refute what I wrote above, or should i just rely on your ego as the source of this claim.

Do you even know what channel Mac 7 was played on and at what times?

Mac 7 did decently well. Part of it undoubtedly had to do with the co release schedual of the Macross Plus OAVs, attracted more support.

[Nightbat]

As long as we don't start calling each other names in our sig

I see no harm in this thread at all

that "Rip van winkel" statement is true, but explain to me what it's worth in a

discussion forum that's based on a 20+ yr old cartoon? (In M7's case 10 yrs)

we might just end all discussion now in that case

"use of reaction..."

Locked, we talked about that 8 months ago"

"DYRL? the Protoculture's cit....."

Locked, Repost - already asked on 23th of august 1999

"What do you think about Macr...."

Closed! No topics may be opened with suggestive titles that make the members

theorise without use of facts and stating their opinions/thoughts/emotions

[hevangel2]

I highly doubt M7 is very popular in Japan.

If it was indeed very popular, how come Bandai didn't release toy for Battle 7 or Ray's green VF-17?

[Noyhauser]

Because macross 7 wasn't about mecha... they played a secondary roll behind the characters in the story. That was the difference beween macross-7 and Plus and why they were released at the same time. Macross 7 was intended to be a Manga show for television with Character development and a deep plot, Plus was intended as a mecha based show that showed off the signatures of the series the VF-19 and 21.

[treatment]

Because macross 7 wasn't about mecha... they played a secondary roll behind the characters in the story. That was the difference beween macross-7 and Plus and why they were released at the same time. Macross 7 was intended to be a Manga show for television with Character development and a deep plot, Plus was intended as a mecha based show that showed off the signatures of the series the VF-19 and 21.

What??? What the heck are you talking about?

Macross Plus was all about character-developments and deep, twisted, and involved plots. The mechas in Plus were very secondary.

The difference between 7 and Plus is really simple:

Plus is very good.

7 is very lame.

[Agent ONE]

Sorta, but just with little kids, which after all was its target audience.

Can you provide facts prove your assertion that to refute what I wrote above, or should i just rely on your ego as the source of this claim.

...

Don't rely on my ego, rely on the fact that I work in Marketing and people pay me money to make assessments like this.

I am not just shooting from the hip..

As for the success of M7 in Japan... It had encore episodes, and an OVA so there was obviously some group of kids that liked it.

[dna]

Its not the broad-stroke story that is lame, its the show... I guess the story could have come off good if there were no fruity-buttplug sissy monsters or Elton John wannabe assmaster Basara singing like a pride parade assless chap model. THOSE things are what make M7 fit for me to piss on.

You work in marketing and this is the best statement you could come up with?

[Blaine23]

Macross 7 should have been based around Sivil.  All Sivil, all the time.  But then again there would have been a few episodes where she floated still in that orb...  yeah, that would have been more interesting to watch....

A one of the few good things about Macross 7...

Yeah, the red valks, guitar controls, music, flying monsters were completely ridiculous - M7 is so silly!

But the hot, flying, purple haired, barely-speaking, vampire girl was awesome!

[Noyhauser]

Macross Plus was all about character-developments and deep, twisted, and involved plots. The mechas in Plus were very secondary.

Maybe you should read more about the series themselves. A 2 hours OAV series cannot have anywhere close to the character development that a 24 hour long series does. Thats why they both came out at the same time. Macross Plus does have a plot and some character development, but it was primarily inteneded to be a showcase VFs and be an action movie. That cannot be disputed. The Mechas in Plus were right up front. IT STARTS OFF AS A COMPETITION BETWEEN TWO NEW FIGHTERS. How can it be secondary when Guld and Isamu engage in battle for approxomately 40% of the whole series? At the time Macross plus was the most expensive OAV to date, and it had no expenese spared in animating the valks including some of the first effectively integrated Computer animation (unlike the Return Of Char, where it was very gimmicky)

Macross 7 was completely different. Its premise was based on development of characters and plot. the overriding theme is war and pacifism, which in Japan is a very big deal. If you are interested read this thread I expand on it in there.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=4039&hl=

Don't rely on my ego, rely on the fact that I work in Marketing and people pay me money to make assessments like this.

So you are making marketing assumptions without any real knowledge of time slot of the television show, the market or even the intentions of the creator. How do I know these things? Because I was in Japan during the summer of 1995 watching the show.

Honestly you are shooting from the hip because you don't like it and think its funny making one lined stupid comments about it. At least Keith does have something to say about the series. You on the other hand don't bring anything to the table except "gay this, Pink that." the DNA quote above is a perfect example.

If you have something relevant to say to the discussions, not your own opinion which is well known to all of us, by all means share it.

Edited April 30, 2004 by Noyhauser

[Agent ONE]

...

Don't rely on my ego, rely on the fact that I work in Marketing and people pay me money to make assessments like this.

So you are making marketing assumptions without any real knowledge of time slot of the television show, the market or even the intentions of the creator. How do I know these things? Because I was in Japan during the summer of 1995 watching the show.

So I guess just by being in Japan in 1995 you are an expert...

You don't have any data, and neither do I... The difference is, I am a marketing professional (I get paid $$$$$ to make assessments like this), and you are just crying about some show that you emotionally feel compelled to defend.

I can imagine how you must feel, probably a sense of rejection, combined with the feeling of being alone, not knowing where to turn... Perhaps you should emerse your self in entertainment and extracaricular activities that don't promote sissiness like M7 does. You can probably handle day to day human relationship issues better if you follow my advice.

[dna]

For a little while there, I thought I might have been wrong about that Agent ONE! guy. Now I see I was right the first time.

[treatment]

Macross Plus was all about character-developments and deep, twisted, and involved plots. The mechas in Plus were very secondary.

Maybe you should read more about the series themselves. A 2 hours OAV series cannot have anywhere close to the character development that a 24 hour long series does. Thats why they both came out at the same time. Macross Plus does have a plot and some character development, but it was primarily inteneded to be a showcase VFs and be an action movie. That cannot be disputed. The Mechas in Plus were right up front. IT STARTS OFF AS A COMPETITION BETWEEN TWO NEW FIGHTERS. How can it be secondary when Guld and Isamu engage in battle for approxomately 40% of the whole series? At the time Macross plus was the most expensive OAV to date, and it had no expenese spared in animating the valks including some of the first effectively integrated Computer animation (unlike the Return Of Char, where it was very gimmicky)

Puhh-lease! Your full of non-sequitur such as the most expensive OVA and no spared animation. We're not talking about the expense of OVA-making and stuff. We're talking about character-development and plot, as you have opened up.

Macross Plus starts off with ISAMU. Not with any fighter-competition. That came later after Isamu's and Guld's characters were established. The appearance of Myung alone gave the character-rivalry (not mecha-rivalry) more sense and more intensity at it became more personal between the two pilots.

Macross Plus' focus was always on the characters: Isamu, Guld, Myung, and even Sharon.

You really should watch more PLUS before you spout off your ridiculous BS about it.

A 2 hour-OVA such as PLUS had more character and plot developments than all the episodes of M7 combined.

The Mechas and Fighters-Competition were completely secondary in PLUS. It's all about Isamu vs Guld, not YF-19 vs YF-22. They're just machines. It's all about the two pilots in the fighting.

It was Isamu who made the YF-19 the better mecha against the YF-22, not the YF-19 that made Isamu the better pilot.

M7 had more focus on the VF-17, VF-19, and the VF-22. SoundForce, DiamondForce, etc, etc. In all it's glorified colorings, speakers and repeated stock posing.

None of that in Plus.

You get Isamu, Guld, Sharon and Myung developments in Plus. With great secondary characters like Millard, Lucy, Yang and Marj each adding different angles and perspectives on the whole story.

Macross 7 was completely different. Its premise was based on development of characters and plot.  the overriding theme is war and pacifism, which in Japan is a very big deal. If you are interested read this thread I expand on it in there.

roll-eyes. I was in that thread and your posts there just made me laugh and stuff.

Tell me this.

If you really think M7 was such a character-development and plot-development series in your eyes, tell us how Basara or Mylene or Gamlin have changed and stuff. Is it anyway comparable or even near to the changes in Guld, Isamu, and Myung as shown in Plus?

What's up with Flower-girl and what exactly is her character and development in that series?

Geezus. I don't like M7, but I don't hate M7. I'm rather ambivalent towards it. I like some aspects of it (the Max and Millia aspects).

But you know, M7-fans like you completely blows my mind everytime you guys spout BS just to try to justify a really weak series such as Macross-7. By even trying to undermine and re-interpret Macross-Plus just to support your Macross-7 "reasons".

[Final Vegeta]

I highly doubt M7 is very popular in Japan.

If it was indeed very popular, how come Bandai didn't release toy for Battle 7 or Ray's green VF-17?

I'll read the thread later, anyway they actually made a model of VF-17T Kai.

Notice: Bandai largely skipped transformable mechas. Maybe they feared they would be too costly.

Anyway, Macross 7 had an OVA in 1998, four years later it first came out. This is some sign of success.

FV

[bob joe mac]

*Sarcasm*

Yeah Macross 7 is way too goofy for me I'll stick with

SDF-Macross and its evil giant green and purple aliens with goofy robots (male power armour) transforming planes and a giant ass transforming battle crusier. Oh and of course the magical signing girl.

Macross Plus- An evil singing computer and its forcefield punches.

Macross DYRL- This one outdid TV by far it had its organic looking ships (don't even TRY to arguee this) giant floating evil heads and of course the magical singing girl .

Macross II- Well yeah its Macross II

Macross Zero- Giant monsters, flaping wings and more to come.

*END SARCASM*

yeah macross has always had its goofy over the top crap but I still enjoy it all. but I really don't care what other people think of shows if I like it I like it if they don't they don't.

"If it stinks don't watch it"- Jay sherman

Whatever these threads will never stop...

[Blaine23]

For a little while there, I thought I might have been wrong about that Agent ONE! guy. Now I see I was right the first time.

Macross 7 always brings out the best in him.

[ewilen]

AgentONE, what kind of data would tell you who was the target audience of M7?

I can think of categories, but you haven't offered much besides stylistic interpretations.

[Radd]

My opinion is vastly superior to your own, therefore I am correct and you are not. Your opinion is wrong. I mean, how could it be right when you are so obviously inferior to me and my opinions?

BEHOLD! My opinions drive the very life cycle of the universe, without my opinions you would all simply cease to be. That is all the proof I require to show that my opinions are the only correct opinions.

Statistically, your opinions are aimed at the 12 year old japanese schoolgirl audience, while my opinions are loftier and more substancial than that. You should take this as fact, because I used the word 'statistically', wich means it is founded in fact, much like all of my opinions.

LOOKITTHEMONKEY!!!11111eleven

I am right, you are wrong. My opinions prove it, and you are educated stupid.

[Beware of Blast]

Oh now feel it comin back again

like a rollin' thunder chasing the wind

forces pullin' from the center of the Earth again

I can feel it

[Agent ONE]

AgentONE, what kind of data would tell you who was the target audience of M7?

I can think of categories, but you haven't offered much besides stylistic interpretations.

- Co-marketing of jpop stuff and its general demographic

- Amount of co-marketing and co-branding

- Lack of violence in the show in comparison to other shows aired at the time in Japan

- Lack of mature material in comparison to other shows aired at the time in Japan

- Enemy in the show doesn't kill the adversary, just drains energy

- Lyrics of Jpop music and their similarity to "pre-teen" music we have here (I did work for N*SYNC so I know more about this than just about anyone)

- Overtones of peace, as opposed to realities of confilct and conflict resolution

- Price point of toys and co-branded products, obviously looking for a child demographic

- Lack of deaths in wartime

- One main character rebels against parent-like authority and is glorified by it, this is an overtone used for many shows for 8-12 year olds

- Other main character is a 15 year old girl who copes with growing up, as we all know the 8-12 demographic looks toward the next level of development in their stage of life for role models which would make Mylene make sense from a 'marketing to children' standpoint

- Product oriented show, showcasing Jpop and other colorfull toys targeted at kids

- Lack of models in comparison to comparable shows, which are marketed to older demographics

I'm sure I could add some more if I gave it some thought.

[Nightbat]

Hmm,..

A1, do you know you just summerized episode 1?

[Wicked Ace]

I also enjoy all the "this has been done before" type arguments on here. Oh, and the "why can't we all just agree to disagree" suggestion misses the point. Sure there's divisiveness, but healthy debate in our society is good - even if it's about something like whether or not M7 is good. I have seen people get way too carried away over these type threads, and I just don't understand how internet discussions, like this, truly upset people.

For the "we did this already" bunch - who cares? If you don't want to discuss a topic, then don't. I understand posting a link to a previous discussion in order to help a newbie out, but I don't get why some people can't resist posting up a disparaging "we did this last month" type comment. Some people are new, so let them click the ADD TOPIC button, even if it is a "hey, got my first Yamato today" thread. It's not like there's so much happening in the way of new threads that it matters anyway. And, when it does become an issue, that's what moderators are for - they'll fix it.

Oh yeah, and there's tons of quality character development in M7! LOL!

*edit* This should not be taken to be a personal attack on anyone and should not be taken as an assertion on my part that I'm somehow more intelligent than the next person or that my views are worthier than the next member's.

Edited May 1, 2004 by Wicked Ace

[Radd]

I, on the other hand, am more intelligent than the next person, and I demand that you all realize that my opinions are superior, and that any dissenting opinions shall not be tolerated. The evil educators would have you believe differently, they defy nature's provem 4 corner time cube!

[Keith]

[blockquote]You don't have any data, and neither do I... The difference is, I am a marketing professional (I get paid $$$$$ to make assessments like this), and you are just crying about some show that you emotionally feel compelled to defend.[/blockquote]

And consideing no one is paying you here, it can be just as easily assumed we're getting our moneys worth....

Macross 7 was no more a kids show than the original series. You wanna bitch about multi-colored Valkyries? What the hell did you think Hikaru's custom scheme, Max's custom scheme, Milia's custom scheme, as well as a huge red white & blue ship were about?

As for death's, 7 had more than its share, no less dramatic than anything which came before.

Character developement was mountains over Plus, any claim otherwise is pure delusion.

Mecha battles, what the hell do you expect on a TV budget when compared with an OVA budget. No worse than any of its contemporary TV anime counterparts.

Animation: Character animation stands out as very constant in quality.

Popularity? Take a look at the crowd shots for any of the concert omake. The majority of the people there aren't "kids." The series suceeded in a 52 episode run (counting the encore episodes) a feat which no Gundam series has even achieved. A less popular show would have had its run cut short to 26-30 episodes. Hell, look at Gundam X which again is related to a much bigger franchise, it was a less popular show, and was trimmed down in episode count.

Macross 7 has been released on VHS, LD, & DVD by Bandai. Again, not every Gundam Franchise (including X) has made it to DVD.

Half hour movie special & 4 episode OVA, countless albums (yes JPOP, but what series at the time, let alone now DOESN'T use JPOP?).

"NUFF SAID!

[Wicked Ace]

Character developement was mountains over Plus, any claim otherwise is pure delusion.

Mecha battles, what the hell do you expect on a TV budget when compared with an OVA budget.

Let me start out by stating that I'm sure that you were responding to Agent ONE, and I don't want to do a lynch mob style debate. That being said, your character development assertion simply isn't supportable. Also, the excuse about the "mecha battles" being a result of a TV budget is just that, an excuse for poor fight scenes.

Let me clarify my second point; my argument on the fight scenes is the fact that the battles seem like those of the old G.I. Joe series, where tons of weapons are being used, yet nobody seems to get killed. For example, the VF-11s come apart so neatly for the Varuta pilots. Also, the Varuta pilots seem to operate with such precision in getting the VF-11 pilots, yet they can't seem to hit Basara with any weapons fire, when he's not even paying attention to flight controls. In fact, Basara doesn't even execute complex manuevers and fires speakers, with precision, into the Varuta pilots to force them into listening to his obnoxious, singing.

Then there's the crappy-looking enemies, but I'll save that for a different post.

[Agent ONE]

[blockquote]You don't have any data, and neither do I... The difference is, I am a marketing professional (I get paid $$$$$ to make assessments like this), and you are just crying about some show that you emotionally feel compelled to defend.[/blockquote]

And consideing no one is paying you here, it can be just as easily assumed we're getting our moneys worth....

Macross 7 was no more a kids show than the original series. You wanna bitch about multi-colored Valkyries? What the hell did you think Hikaru's custom scheme, Max's custom scheme, Milia's custom scheme, as well as a huge red white & blue ship were about?

As for death's, 7 had more than its share, no less dramatic than anything which came before.

Character developement was mountains over Plus, any claim otherwise is pure delusion.

Mecha battles, what the hell do you expect on a TV budget when compared with an OVA budget. No worse than any of its contemporary TV anime counterparts.

Animation: Character animation stands out as very constant in quality.

Popularity? Take a look at the crowd shots for any of the concert omake. The majority of the people there aren't "kids." The series suceeded in a 52 episode run (counting the encore episodes) a feat which no Gundam series has even achieved. A less popular show would have had its run cut short to 26-30 episodes. Hell, look at Gundam X which again is related to a much bigger franchise, it was a less popular show, and was trimmed down in episode count.

Macross 7 has been released on VHS, LD, & DVD by Bandai. Again, not every Gundam Franchise (including X) has made it to DVD.

Half hour movie special & 4 episode OVA, countless albums (yes JPOP, but what series at the time, let alone now DOESN'T use JPOP?).

"NUFF SAID!

HAHAHA...

You didn't respond to anything I said... Just typical Keith crying.

[Roy Focker]

- Lyrics of Jpop music and their similarity to "pre-teen" music we have here (I did work for N*SYNC so I know more about this than just about anyone)

So I guess those gay rumors were true.

[Druna Skass]

Is there any other show out there that just fires people up as much as this one does?

[Jawjaw]

I am also watching Mac7 for the first time (at episode 37). I figured I would hate it based upon what I heard but being a true fan, I felt like I had to watch it. It was a little tough to get into but I actually enjoy it now. While it is not the best show out there and no where as good as the other Macross series, it still works for me. Parts of it are pretty stupid and I just shake my head and keep watching. Some of the stupidity has some charm and makes me laugh. I still get a kick out of Basara demanding that everyone hear him sing - even when he is getting his ass kicked. But I get pretty sick of his "I'm a complicated guy and no one understands me" rants. What I do like is that it ties into the original Macross in several ways, has lots of cool mecha, and is faithfull to the concepts of Macross. It gets a bit unbelievable in parts but what anime doesn't?

While it may not be for everyone, I still recommend any Macross fan to watch it to see for themselves. It's not that bad, really.