Franklin Mint (AKA Armour) F-14 vs Yamato Valks

[Godzilla]

Has anybought the Armour military aircraft 1/48 F-14 and compared them to the 1/48 Yamato Valks?

[Draykov]

I've seen them around online, but I don't know that I've seen them in person. Personally, if I want a detailed 1/48 F-14, I'd go for one of the many quality model kits available.

Edited January 12, 2004 by Draykov

[Mechamaniac]

Dude, those thing suck ass.

They look good from a distance, and you would think that they would be all hatchy, and stuff, but in fact, the one that I saw blew chunks. The wings didn't even swing, it was fixed in the out position. The airbrake didn't open, the gear doesn't work, they just suck crap. PERIOD. Also, they are solid die cast for the most part, and sport this crappy enamel paint job. The worst thing is that when they were Armour, you could get em for about 25 bucks, but since they're Franklin Mint, they want big bucks for them. NOTE - NEVER BUY ANYTHING FROM THE FRANKLIN MINT, my wife used to work there, and their stuff is overrated, thinly plated trash.

Now, I was at Wal Mart not too long ago, and they have their own line of models, that are already painted and decalled, all you do is glue them together. I can't remember what they were called, but they had an F-14 with the rising sun tail logo, nicely detailed, they also had an FA-18, a Huey, and an Apache as I remember.

And they were about 15 bucks, looked to be 1/48 scale too.

Edited January 13, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[turd]

Has anybought the Armour military aircraft 1/48 F-14 and compared them to the 1/48 Yamato Valks?

I saw it(armour military aircraft) other time at this shopping mall... I reckon it should be around the same size as the 1/48 valk. Almost bought the VF-84 jolly rogers f-14 but it costs a dear S$245 *should I buy???!!!*

[Montarvillois]

I have one diecast 1/48 F-14D that I am in the process of repainting like Shin Khudo's Macross Zero.

I'll post picutres in a couple of days.

[David Hingtgen]

Armour was OK back when it was Armour. However, it was an as-built 1975 F-14A, and they'd paint it up as anything, including late-90's SUPER Tomcats--didn't even bother the change the engine nozzles, much less the more subtle things.

Now (as Franklin Mint), the price is WAAAAAY up, and quality is WAAAAAAY down. Things that were painted are now *poorly* decaled. And many small details are omitted. of course, the greatest Franklin Mint error is their baby-blue $600 USS Missouri. Sorry, but 5N Blue (Mo's deck color) is really dark blue. Opposite end of the spectrum from baby blue... (There's plenty of color photos of her deck and camoflage paint, with the surrender ceremony and all--most photographed thing in history at that point)

Wal-Mart 1/48 F-14's: There's 2 that I know of. Sundowners and Bounty Hunters. Bounty Hunters suffers same problem as Armour's--it's a 1970's A painted up as a Super Tomcat. A 2003 F-14D to be precise. But the markings/colors are decently close, even if too dark and single-toned, IMHO.

The Sundowners has big problems. The tail logo's not right. Close, but not right. Also "NT" isn't a valid code. Sundowners were NL most of the time. NT doesn't exist. Also, Sundowners never wore dark grey, ever. But at least it's an F-14A painted (sorta) like an F-14A.

The biggest problem is that the wings are hollow on the Wal-Mart ones. As in, if you turn it over, it's totally concave. The wing has an upper surface, but there's no lower surface. It's exactly as if you had a 1/48 kit, and only had the upper half of the wing. It's not just "not detailed" it flat out isn't there.

Edited January 13, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Myersjessee]

kinda makes you thankful WalMart didn't do the 1/48 Valk...would make the MPC desirable from the sounds of it!

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

I have the 1/48 f-14 "sundowners" and for what $20 I think the thing rocks. Now if it was $245 like the franklin mint "jolly rogers" mentioned above I would be seriously pissed off. But for $20 its sweet and with some touch up detailing I wish I could get the same quality on an MPC for $20. Now as for the other f-14 I have yet to see it, but now I have a another reason to hit up walmarts.

Rob

[Spiff]

We've had this discussion before.

F-14's are slightly larger than a VF-1, longer mostly. VF's are quite short as far as a fighter design goes

but the wing span is fairly close between the two. It's cool to have the two displayed next to each other. I am dying for Yamato to make a 1/48 VF-0 to throw in the display....... MMMMM VF-0!!

The Walmart F-14 is not a super detailed collector piece, it is however a pretty cool toy for display that I didn't have to paint or detail. So for $18.00 you cant bitch too much, $18.00 to get a fully painted and decaled mostly (b)diecast(/b) toy, however inaccurate, is still a good deal IMO.

[Graham]

We've had this discussion before.

F-14's are slightly larger than a VF-1, longer mostly. VF's are quite short as far as a fighter design goes

but the wing span is fairly close between the two. It's cool to have the two displayed next to each other.

Tenjin's Valkyrie Maniax site has this good size comparison pic of a VF-1 and F-14.

Graham

[Uxi]

From that pic it looks significantly bulkier too. Ah too bad there's not a semi-detailed toy with removable missiles flaps, detail ala Yamato 1/48 but non transforming F-14D. Maybe Yamato could do specials of the F-14 Kai (or whatever they called it) and Anti-UN MiG-29... as well as Dragon II and that K one (exact name escapes me at the moment and not that important IMO).

If that happened, I'd want 1/48 and 1/60.

[tom64ss]

I have the 1/48 f-14 "sundowners"  and for what $20 I think the thing rocks.  Now if it was $245 like the franklin mint "jolly rogers" mentioned above I would be seriously pissed off.  But for $20 its sweet  and with some touch up detailing I wish I could get the same quality on an MPC for $20.  Now as for the other f-14 I have yet to see it, but now I have a another reason to hit up walmarts.

Rob 

I got the same one. I think it's well worth the money despite the hollow wings. It was about $18-19 and this thing is a heavy bastard from all the diecast. No glue or modification needed as the whole thing screws together. The wings don't even bother me as much as the fact that from the front, you can see the screws in the intake, but for under $20, I'm more than satisfied with it.

I was thinking about filling the wings w/ Bondo and making a Shin too, but that's not going to be any time soon.

I'll try and take some pictures when I get home.

edit: Oh yeah, price versus product, the Franklin Mint ones are terrible up close.

Edited January 13, 2004 by tom64ss

[mechaninac]

A little off topic, but there is another manufacturer of highly detailed diecast military vehicles that has some pretty awesome looking stuff out there under the name "Forces of Valor". I bought their 1:48 UH-60 Blackhawk Helicopter and it is absolutely beautiful, and at about +/- $35.00 it's a real bargain.

They also offer a 1:48 AH-64A Apache...gotta get this one next.

And if you don't mind a smaller scale (1/72), perfect for display with M+, they also offer aircraft toys:

[vlenhoff]

Here, I got these at Walmart. But be very careful, because QC is not really that great. These come in two version: assembled, and disassembled. I returned one of these because it had an imperfection, one the left side where the wing joins the body. It is noticeable from outside of the display-like box, but only if you look very very close, you'd be able to tell. The angle of the pic hides that mistake, but I didn't really want to keep it, because I was always looking at the mistake. I would've fixed it myself, but I would've had to remove stickers from underneath that I wouldn't have been able to replace. It cost me $20.00.

Vic.

[vlenhoff]

more

[tom64ss]

more

Nice. Those are the same as the one I got so, now I don't have to take any pics.

[vlenhoff]

Another... If you guys need close ups, let me know. I'll just take a good couple of shots, and post'em here. This F-14 is so big, I imagine that would be the size comparison between the VF-1 and the YF-19. I guess...

ViC!

Edit in: These are MotorWorks F-14 1:48 scale.

Edited January 13, 2004 by vlenhoff

[Godzilla]

So I am hearing that the armour 1:48 suck then. Ok, I dont think I will buy them. I know they cost like $79 before Franklin bought them.

[ewilen]

Vic--I don't see the hollow wings in those pics. Is this a different version from what David is talking about, or an optical illusion? Or did you fill the wings?

[Mechamaniac]

Yeah, Motorworks that's them.

The one I saw was the disassembled Sundowners version. It was like 17 bucks, and I was so close to buying it. Next time I will. Hell, I don't care if it's not perfect, it's cheap, and from those pics, looks pretty damned good.

[David Hingtgen]

Well, either the VF-2 ones have different wings, or you just can't see the hollow wings from those pics. If anyone's interested, I'll take a pic of the Sundowners one.

As for Forces of Valor: far better to snag an Armour. Forces of Valor are pretty laughed at by all collectors. They're nice toys, certainly not models, IMHO. Paint just sucks, they're super-ultra-overlined. As in, you know those Gundams (and valks) which have EVERY panel line colored with thick black lines? (As opposed to subtle, fine lines). They look like that. They are my preferred scale, but would never buy one.

PS--especially do not snag their Tornado. It's half of one, half of a another. There are two distinct types of Tornados, these pretty much have the body of one but the options/weapons of the other.

PPS---yes, I nit-pick. I spend way more time at diecastaircraft.com than here. My profiles at the various diecast model plane forums say "Nit-picking" under "hobbies". As you can imagine, I have high standards for planes, especially F-14's. But I will tell you, nobody at those forums buy Armour/FM any more, and few ever bought Forces of Valor. You can get MUCH better stuff way cheaper. Just not F-14's. There are still no GOOD F-14's, in any scale. (Except the occasional Armour produced years ago, when they were cheaper, and higher quality, and was an early F-14A painted up as an early F-14A)

[Skull 001]

I bought one of those 1/48 Tomcats that is the Sundowners squad but I made it into a Jolly Rogers.

[tom64ss]

Vic--I don't see the hollow wings in those pics. Is this a different version from what David is talking about, or an optical illusion? Or did you fill the wings?

That's them. It's the lighting that makes it so that you can't see the hollowed out wings.

The first pic, the plane on the left, you can just barely make out the lip of where the wings hollowed out on the back of the right wing.

[gerwalk25]

From that pic it looks significantly bulkier too. Ah too bad there's not a semi-detailed toy with removable missiles flaps, detail ala Yamato 1/48 but non transforming F-14D. Maybe Yamato could do specials of the F-14 Kai (or whatever they called it) and Anti-UN MiG-29... as well as Dragon II and that K one (exact name escapes me at the moment and not that important IMO).

If that happened, I'd want 1/48 and 1/60.

The Karyovin is a nice compact fighter compared to the bigger Dragon 2. Yamato should invest some time into producing said scaled versions of both. I'd like to see Focker's Dragon first.

~G25

P.S. I thought of buying a Motorworks FA-18 @ wal-mart as well as an F-14. Checked out both of them up close and they look pretty cool.

[ewilen]

You can see what David's talking about re: panel lines here.

[Chronocidal]

I too bought one of the Sundowners Tomcats.. I got the unassembled one though..and discovered something very interesting. Certain parts of the cockpit, mainly the pilots and instrument panels, look like exact duplicates of parts from the Monogram 1/48th Tomcat kit. I'm planning on opening that thing up one day and actually painting the entire cockpit up nice. There's more than just the tail decals that are strange though... I never knew the ship was named USS Independance... And what kind of missile is an "ATM-54?" The decals aren't a biggie for me though, I plan on repainting and re-decaling this thing later on when the markings start to flake off. The only thing that really bugged me about it was the fact that the bottom half of the fuselage is plastic.

I looked at the other planes though, and I wouldn't buy the F-18, mainly for one reason: the sidewinders. Unlike the F-14, which had all the pylons and weapons correctly mounted (strange tanks aside), the F-18's wingtip sidewinders were cast in one piece with the wing. So, in other words, no pylon. The missiles are mounted in a hideously wrong position, hanging back way too far so the fins could be molded. You'd have to cut those things off, add pylons, and then mount a decent set of missiles on there before I'd buy one.

What I'm really amazed by are these new "toys" that are in the same size range as some radio control models, or at least control line models. Recently at Wal-Mart I've seen 1/18th scale BF-109s and P-47 Thunderbolts. They're huge.. and everything works, landing gear, various control surfaces, wing folding, etc.... If I saw the Corsair in a store, I'd pick it up instantly, as that thing is beautiful. What's amazing is that from the box ads, they've made a 1/18th P-38 Lightning... I've never seen it in stores. I've seen the P-51D and Corsair at Toys-R-Us once, but that's it, aside from the Wal Mart stuff. But a 1/18 scale P-38 would be absolutely gigantic... sheesh, what would that be, something like a 3 foot wingspan?

Edited January 14, 2004 by Chronocidal

[David Hingtgen]

Yes, I had forgotten some of the errors. Like the "Indepedance"

Actually, the ATM-54 isn't a mistake. It is a different missile than the AIM-54. No warhead, but a live motor. (So it isn't a dummy AIM-54, as dummies have no motor). It's the Air Training Missile, as opposed to the Air Interception Missile.

And the awfully-similar-to-certain-kits parts. (Honestly, your standard Monogram 1/48 generic fighter pilot with one-arm-up has been copied so many times, there's more fake ones than real ones)

And while the F-18 looks ok, the wingtip missiles ARE a huge problem with it. (Assembled Hornets are VFA-27 I think, while unassembled are VFA-195) I thought they were more like Sidewinders made the length of Sparrows. (And with no launch rail).

Never took a close look at the Harrier though, that's out there too.

[Graham]

As for Forces of Valor: far better to snag an Armour. Forces of Valor are pretty laughed at by all collectors. They're nice toys, certainly not models, IMHO. Paint just sucks, they're super-ultra-overlined. As in, you know those Gundams (and valks) which have EVERY panel line colored with thick black lines? (As opposed to subtle, fine lines). They look like that. They are my preferred scale, but would never buy one.

Forces of Valor toys recently started selling here in HK, so I've had a chance to examine them and I think if anything, David is being too charitable about the quality of their products.

IMO, the panel lines on their 1/72 scale F-14 and Tornado suck bigtime.

Basically a half blind retarded drunken chimpanzee with parkinsons disease could do a better job of panel lining.

The panel lines on the Forces of Valor toys are ultra thick and way too dark. Most of them are not even straight, they wobble all over the place and there are lots of overruns, where the panel liner slipped and didn't clean up.

The only Forces of Valor products that look half decent IMO are the 1/48 Apache and Blackhawk.

PS, anybody wanting a good Tornado should buy the Corgi Aviation Archive version.

Graham

(still waiting for a 1/72 Corgi Eurofighter Typhoon)

[turd]

is there a 1/72 corgi F-14 jolly rogers?

[Graham]

is there a 1/72 corgi F-14 jolly rogers?

Corgi don't make an F-14 in their 1/72 scale Aviation Archive series. IIRC, the only Jet fighters they make are the F-4 Phantom, the English Electric Lightning (one of my favorite planes), the Harrier, Tornado and the Bucaneer. All the aforementioned planes have been made in several different color schemes. Corgi also makes some great WWII 1/72 and 1/32 scale aircraft replicas.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

Yup, Corgi Tornadoes are great. All Corgi is good. Some better than others, but all good. (And their F-4's and Tornadoes are REALLY good). Can't go wrong with a Corgi anything, in any scale. (Want BIG? Buy their 1/144 B-52 or 707) I *highly* recommend their F-4 (I need to snag the Sundowners one before they're all gone). Just a note: Corgis tend to include LOTS of extra parts. Be prepared to spend a while putting in the gear, gear doors, missiles, pylons, tanks, canopy, etc. (But this also means you can switch between gear up or down, canopy open/closed, fully loaded or empty pylons). Just be sure to test-fit everything. (I end up often scraping paint from gear-door posts). But they've got A+ paint and detail. They feather the camoflage and everything, and the finish is dead flat, as it should be.

I personally am waiting for Dragon's 1/72 Tomcat. But it could be a LONG wait. (But they do promise A's and B's, hopefully D's, too).

There is one more choice: Revell now makes 1/72 diecast Tomcats. F-14A's and D's. (Theirs is as accurate as most D kits--close, but not exactly). However, there are quite a few seams, and many visible screws on the bottom. But they are far more accurate than just about anything else, and your only choice for a decent Super Tomcat. I've never seen them for sale in the US, but I know they exist. I recall F-14A Jolly Rogers (of course), and a Tomcatters low-vis F-14D.

[vlenhoff]

Vic--I don't see the hollow wings in those pics. Is this a different version from what David is talking about, or an optical illusion? Or did you fill the wings?

Yes they are hollowed, but they are kind'a thick and heavy. Panel lining is "painted" on the fuselage. Hey, for 20 bucks not really that bad. Today, I saw one of the pre-assembled F-14 here at Walmart on the Westheimer/kirkwood intersection(Houston, TX).

ViC!

Edited January 14, 2004 by vlenhoff

[mechaninac]

As for Forces of Valor:  far better to snag an Armour.  Forces of Valor are pretty laughed at by all collectors.  They're nice toys, certainly not models, IMHO.  Paint just sucks, they're super-ultra-overlined.  As in, you know those Gundams (and valks) which have EVERY panel line colored with thick black lines?  (As opposed to subtle, fine lines).  They look like that.  They are my preferred scale, but would never buy one. 

Forces of Valor toys recently started selling here in HK, so I've had a chance to examine them and I think if anything, David is being too charitable about the quality of their products.

IMO, the panel lines on their 1/72 scale F-14 and Tornado suck bigtime.

Basically a half blind retarded drunken chimpanzee with parkinsons disease could do a better job of panel lining.

The panel lines on the Forces of Valor toys are ultra thick and way too dark. Most of them are not even straight, they wobble all over the place and there are lots of overruns, where the panel liner slipped and didn't clean up.

The only Forces of Valor products that look half decent IMO are the 1/48 Apache and Blackhawk.

PS, anybody wanting a good Tornado should buy the Corgi Aviation Archive version.

Graham

(still waiting for a 1/72 Corgi Eurofighter Typhoon)

I never saw the Forces of Valor F-14 or Tornado in person. My only experience with this line of diecast toys is their Blackhawk, and while the panel lines are a bit thick, they're not bad in 1/48 scale since the helicopter is painted in what appears to be the correct color/tone, so everything blends okay, and I couldn't find any faults with the design, fit, features, or accuracy given the price of the toy (Please note that I am not a military aircraft connoisseur, so I wouldn't pick up on minutia...all I know is that it actually looks pretty good). The Apache is another matter since the color chosen is way too light, which causes the paneling to be that much more noticeable. I will readily admit that on a 1/72 scale airplane, judging from the pictures I've seen, their panel lines are way beyond thick...they're downright brutish.

As for the Armor series...I've examined them in person at a local Franklin Mint store and was thoroughly unimpressed with every single one of their fighter craft models; I did find their helicopters quite nice, specially the UH-1 Huey, and the AH-64 with the rotor-mounted sensor dome was good too, and accurately painted (dark olive drab). My biggest turn-off is that their stuff is so damn expensive and featureless (I know they're display pieces and not toys, but still...).

Also, I once almost bought one of those Tomcats sold at Wal-Mart stores, but balked at how cheap they look, even at about $18.00. However, I may yet give them another look just in case the example I saw was just a particularly bad one.

Just my two cents worth of ranting incoherence.

Edited January 15, 2004 by mechaninac

[Prowlus]

Sorry but thats the worst tornado i've ever seen as a model . Is that a GR1 with F-3 Weapons?

[David Hingtgen]

Yup it is. And note the "French's Mustard" camo.

PS--if you saw Armour at a Franklin Mint store, then it wasn't Armour. It was the "Franklin Mint-ized" Armour.

They even changed factories--the molds are the only thing the same--it's like a real Bandai 1/55 vs the worst 1/55 Joon's--same mold, but VERY different quality.