Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[Aries Turner]

Actually, I think it's just saying that a drama about Space War 1 has been produced, not that the real world's SDF Macross is such a drama.

True. It is not explicitly stated. About DYRL, I think even Mylene and Basara commented in said episode that it was a 2030 dramatization. Edited September 5, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Seto Kaiba]

If it makes you feel better, it is almost certainly a a Prius lookalike with absolutely nothing of the original powertrain preserved. Just retro styling.

That kind of ventures into the territory of "Why would you do such a terrible thing?".

The G-36 however is a real bone. As Windermere is stated as being isolated, scarce in resources and arming themselves smuggling cargo, their rifles being an human design is not as much a surprise. Could be even raided NUNS detachment ordinance. Going back from caseless munitions in SDFM to simpler ones is not a problem either. What should be puzzling is the military, other than Hugo Voss made uniforms for the SS, is not prone to fashion, and certainly not retro fashion.

To be fair, everything the Windermereans are using is a human design. Even their fighters were developed and built by humans. They were an agrarian society before humanity showed up, and to a certain extent still are.

The history of firearms in Macross is a weird one though, and they seem to be evolving BACKWARDS. The standard-issue weapons used by the UN Spacy in the First Space War were caseless machine guns... but by the 2040's in Macross Plus and Macross 7 they're back to using .380 ACP handguns, Colt Police Positive revolvers, and knockoffs of the MP-5 and AR-15. The G-36 clone Windermere's using in Delta is a rifle also used in Macross Frontier by the New UN Forces infantry aboard Island-1.

(Considering how recently the NUNS was on the planet, Windermere probably either purchased those rifles through the New UN Forces or looted them from the supply depot at the base we saw Arad and Kaname visit in the last episode.)

True. It is not explicitly stated. About DYRL, I think even Mylene and Basara commented in said episode that it was a 2030 dramatization.

Kawamori-san's excuses for Zeerust and the schizophrenic inter-show aesthetic continuity aside, Do You Remember Love? is the only Macross title to be officially identified as a dramatization of events.

Mind you, the 2031 movie Do You Remember Love? was shot using as many period-appropriate props as possible... and substituted holograms for anything that wasn't readily available. A few of the things they used have been identified, like late-block VF-1 Valkyries and the use of a West Point-class training ship with a holographic skin for Boddole Zer's flagship. We can hazard guesses at a few of the other things that were used. The Zentradi, their ships, and their mecha were probably supplied by the UN Spacy Marines with some actors mixed in, and the role of the Macross was probably played by the SDFN-1 General (Takashi) Hayase or one of her sister ships the way the USS Ranger was used as a stand in for USS Enterprise in the filming of Star Trek IV.

One of my colleagues has an interesting theory that the "movie versions" of the stories are all propaganda docu-dramas produced by the (New) UN Forces intended to make the general public think they had a better handle of the situations than they did. Like how DYRL? skips the UN Forces brass being intransigent and ignoring the Macross crew's advice about the size of the enemy fleet, or how the Frontier movies changed the nature of Leon Mishima's involvement in the Vajra war to remove him as one of the primary local conspirators in Macross Galaxy's plot to take over the New UN Government.

(If true, you have to wonder how a Macross Delta movie would play out... the NUNS'd probably put up a lot more of a fight.)

[Aries Turner]

Could be even raided NUNS detachment ordinance.

Considering how recently the NUNS was on the planet, Windermere probably either purchased those rifles through the New UN Forces or looted them from the supply depot at the base we saw Arad and Kaname visit in the last episode.)

I tried (and failed, it seems) to convey the same idea.

One of my colleagues has an interesting theory that the "movie versions" of the stories are all propaganda docu-dramas produced by the (New) UN Forces intended to make the general public think they had a better handle of the situations than they did. Like how DYRL? skips the UN Forces brass being intransigent and ignoring the Macross crew's advice about the size of the enemy fleet, or how the Frontier movies changed the nature of Leon Mishima's involvement in the Vajra war to remove him as one of the primary local conspirators in Macross Galaxy's plot to take over the New UN Government.

Or Max macronized to appease anti-Zentraedi sentiments. I am already liking that colleague of yours.

I had a fan fiction interview in mind with the actor portraying Michelle Blanc about some points in the series and later the movies that puzzled him as an actor, like making Ozma Lee survive the attack in which he lost his life "for unexplained personal request from real Ranka Lee" or how the friendly fire incident in which Blanc lost his life at Alto's negligence under combat stress just before him winning the war was completely rewritten both to cover a senseless death and to avoid blame on a war hero. Or how Klan was certainly impaired genetically, but of lack of beauty, as she loved Blanc but was not loved in return. For the movie he was surprised not only to reprise the role, but for him to survive the events, as the military funding part of the movie objected his death was a sad moment anyway.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Nazareno2012]

The history of firearms in Macross is a weird one though, and they seem to be evolving BACKWARDS. The standard-issue weapons used by the UN Spacy in the First Space War were caseless machine guns... but by the 2040's in Macross Plus and Macross 7 they're back to using .380 ACP handguns, Colt Police Positive revolvers, and knockoffs of the MP-5 and AR-15. The G-36 clone Windermere's using in Delta is a rifle also used in Macross Frontier by the New UN Forces infantry aboard Island-1.

(Considering how recently the NUNS was on the planet, Windermere probably either purchased those rifles through the New UN Forces or looted them from the supply depot at the base we saw Arad and Kaname visit in the last episode.)

For the record, some of those guns such as Messer's rifle apparently use caseless ammunition. The G36 lookalike also probably does as well.

[Seto Kaiba]

For the record, some of those guns such as Messer's rifle apparently use caseless ammunition. The G36 lookalike also probably does as well.

Dunno 'bout Messer's rifle, but the H&K G36 knockoff has line art from Macross Frontier that shows it ejecting shell casings when firing. I don't think we've had a confirmed caseless gun in Macross since the original series.

[azrael]

Dunno 'bout Messer's rifle, but the H&K G36 knockoff has line art from Macross Frontier that shows it ejecting shell casings when firing. I don't think we've had a confirmed caseless gun in Macross since the original series.

Speaking of which, one would think Messer would be using something shorter like a 10/11" barrel carbine or a SMG/PDW for instead of that big thing he was carrying around for a infiltration mission. But I digress...

[Ghostbear0]

Or an auto shotgun with buckshot to help compensate for the superhuman manuverability.... Or you know EX gear or well anything but everything they've done on infiltration missions. Actually wouldn't Walcure's holo bodysuit work as an active camouflage system.... We could have gotten the fanservice earlier and cotton Hyate and Messer in on the act....and the idea of Messer in a Walcure outfit is the most entertainment I've gotten out of this series for a while.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[Zinjo]

To be fair, everything the Windermereans are using is a human design. Even their fighters were developed and built by humans. They were an agrarian society before humanity showed up, and to a certain extent still are.

The history of firearms in Macross is a weird one though, and they seem to be evolving BACKWARDS. The standard-issue weapons used by the UN Spacy in the First Space War were caseless machine guns... but by the 2040's in Macross Plus and Macross 7 they're back to using .380 ACP handguns, Colt Police Positive revolvers, and knockoffs of the MP-5 and AR-15. The G-36 clone Windermere's using in Delta is a rifle also used in Macross Frontier by the New UN Forces infantry aboard Island-1.

(Considering how recently the NUNS was on the planet, Windermere probably either purchased those rifles through the New UN Forces or looted them from the supply depot at the base we saw Arad and Kaname visit in the last episode.)

Kawamori-san's excuses for Zeerust and the schizophrenic inter-show aesthetic continuity aside, Do You Remember Love? is the only Macross title to be officially identified as a dramatization of events.

Mind you, the 2031 movie Do You Remember Love? was shot using as many period-appropriate props as possible... and substituted holograms for anything that wasn't readily available. A few of the things they used have been identified, like late-block VF-1 Valkyries and the use of a West Point-class training ship with a holographic skin for Boddole Zer's flagship. We can hazard guesses at a few of the other things that were used. The Zentradi, their ships, and their mecha were probably supplied by the UN Spacy Marines with some actors mixed in, and the role of the Macross was probably played by the SDFN-1 General (Takashi) Hayase or one of her sister ships the way the USS Ranger was used as a stand in for USS Enterprise in the filming of Star Trek IV.

One of my colleagues has an interesting theory that the "movie versions" of the stories are all propaganda docu-dramas produced by the (New) UN Forces intended to make the general public think they had a better handle of the situations than they did. Like how DYRL? skips the UN Forces brass being intransigent and ignoring the Macross crew's advice about the size of the enemy fleet, or how the Frontier movies changed the nature of Leon Mishima's involvement in the Vajra war to remove him as one of the primary local conspirators in Macross Galaxy's plot to take over the New UN Government.

(If true, you have to wonder how a Macross Delta movie would play out... the NUNS'd probably put up a lot more of a fight.)

I like the retro hand weapons, personally. It adds a sense of realism and if you think about it, most modern day rifles and sidearms are really just tweaked out versions from their original designs. Having a "futuristic" hand weapon was really cool back in the 80's, but now we've become more pragmatic. So the idea of using weapons based on established design principles, but with better materials and perhaps several enhancements to make them more effective is not such a bad thing IMHO. I guess our pragmatism probably stems from not actually getting a flying car in every garage before the year 2000.

I dunno, why go to all the trouble and expense of using holograms and actual space flight craft, when it can all be done post production?? Sure you want all authentic gear for the live action shots, but the space battles and the like can be done with SPFX at a fraction of the cost of using actual military assets. Maybe back in the 80's and 90's the use of real military vehicles was a reasonable explanation, but in the actual 21st century, photorealistic CGI SPFX is more common than sliced bread...

Am I the only one seeing this? I am smelling a retcon about this comming sooner or later...

Edited September 6, 2016 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

Or an auto shotgun with buckshot to help compensate for the superhuman manuverability.... Or you know EX gear or well anything but everything they've done on infiltration missions. Actually wouldn't Walcure's holo bodysuit work as an active camouflage system.... We could have gotten the fanservice earlier and cotton Hyate and Messer in on the act....and the idea of Messer in a Walcure outfit is the most entertainment I've gotten out of this series for a while.

Why couldn't the holosuits provide "actual" camoflage? If it can give them new clothes, why not allow them to blend into the environment?

[Ghostbear0]

Active camouflage is what the Predator has.

[Nazareno2012]

Speaking of which, one would think Messer would be using something shorter like a 10/11" barrel carbine or a SMG/PDW for instead of that big thing he was carrying around for a infiltration mission. But I digress...

Actually, it is supposed to be a 2060's equivalent to a Mk. 18 CQBR, as it appears to be of a similar size and design to the SCAR or CZ 805. Here is my take on its design:

I made up some of the details, as the carbine in the show is poorly-drawn and I had to add details that it should have, such as iron sights on the carrying handle, a Picatinny rail for optics and M-Lok slots for other accessories.

[Seto Kaiba]

Or an auto shotgun with buckshot to help compensate for the superhuman manuverability.... Or you know EX gear or well anything but everything they've done on infiltration missions. Actually wouldn't Walcure's holo bodysuit work as an active camouflage system.... We could have gotten the fanservice earlier and cotton Hyate and Messer in on the act....and the idea of Messer in a Walcure outfit is the most entertainment I've gotten out of this series for a while.

Buckshot doesn't spread out enough over short to medium ranges... what Messer needed was a goddamn light grenade launcher or flechette gun.

As far as active camouflage goes, I think that's probably a no-go. If they're not much improved over Sheryl's rig in Macross Frontier they can make that bodysuit appear invisible in part or in full (done once in an amusing little short comic in Macross Ace), but turning the wearer invisible probably isn't in the cards without more power or a more sophisticated projector.

The YF-27-5 had a holographic camouflage system like that, but that had a lot more power behind it.

I like the retro hand weapons, personally. It adds a sense of realism and if you think about it, most modern day rifles and sidearms are really just tweaked out versions from their original designs. Having a "futuristic" hand weapon was really cool back in the 80's, but now we've become more pragmatic. [...]

It seems a bit inconsistent, since even in the 90's we were seeing futuristic firearms in the hands of UN Forces, the Varauta troops, and Zolans.

How'd the NUNS go backwards from laser machineguns to a rifle from 1995? They use a rifle no more advanced than the FAMAS G2 Shin was brandishing way back in Macross Zero...

I dunno, why go to all the trouble and expense of using holograms and actual space flight craft, when it can all be done post production?? Sure you want all authentic gear for the live action shots, but the space battles and the like can be done with SPFX at a fraction of the cost of using actual military assets. Maybe back in the 80's and 90's the use of real military vehicles was a reasonable explanation, but in the actual 21st century, photorealistic CGI SPFX is more common than sliced bread...

Am I the only one seeing this? I am smelling a retcon about this comming sooner or later...

Dunno 'bout you, but photorealistic CG always comes off looking a bit odd or out of place to me... the articulations are never quite right, features blur unrealistically, etc.

Maybe they're just sticklers for authenticity, or maybe they just find using motion capture with a real Valkyrie makes for a more natural CG compositing job in postproduction? Every time they've filmed an in-universe docu-drama so far, they've used real Valkyries either as-is or as motion capture targets for later editing.

Why couldn't the holosuits provide "actual" camoflage? If it can give them new clothes, why not allow them to blend into the environment?

That should be perfectly possible... but we've seen that Xaos, Delta Flight, and Walkure are not exactly good at what they do.

[Ghostbear0]

So just hit me were they wearing actual physical costumes or just ussing their rigs. Hyates fake ruin getting handeled by Bouge points to actual stuff, but why and where did they have it? In case of the worst which they got what good does local garb do? Especialy since they didn't give Freyja a disguise! I can see it maybe, maybe being keeper in the shuttle but if they went to get it why did they spit back up?

Edited September 6, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[squaresphere]

on a side note I want to know more about the Windermere flight/flying suits. At first glance they look like glide suits but given their obession with the wind I wonder if they could "flap their wings" to gain altitude.

[Aries Turner]

Actually, it is supposed to be a 2060's equivalent to a Mk. 18 CQBR, as it appears to be of a similar size and design to the SCAR or CZ 805.

The carrying handle is somewhat different. I didn't even actually check if what we are shown are actually G36 CGI models, I just didn't care: can be a reuse of such, but we 'know' those only resemble that.

About caseless munition, there may even an in-universe explanation. Even military leaders could think overtechnology could at last solve caseless munition issues, but the very nature of that munition could be insurmountable even with that. The main issues are:

a) Cookoff. Caseless munition don't have a metallic heat sink. OTM could or could not solve that using explosives with a higher ignition temperature.

b) Lack of sealing. The case of a bullet effectively seals the rear of the barrel while firing, both improving ballistics and protecting the rifle mechanism from heated gases. Overtechnology materials with better resistance and heat insulation could solve the issue on the rifle side, but ballistics would suffer as the rifle is now somewhat like a recoil-less rifle.

c) Caseless munition very nature of lacking a metallic, flexible, resistant to grazing by internal mechanism or friction when moving within the ammo clip, made those somewhat fragile, because propellants has to be resistant to humidity, ignite completely without noticeable residues that would need extraction like a conventional cartridge and at the same time be tolerant to friction and mechanical handling.

Maybe overtechnology made caseless munition appear viable at last, but field experience proved the munition as still unreliable and troops opting for enemy rifles when available during Anti-UN wars. That kind of munitions being useless against Zentraedi size targets could have played a role, also.

I don't remember about Varauta or Zolan rifle lethality, but if the later wasn't great and the former isn't either, or is but is difficult to replicate, that could explain not using beam rifles.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Ghostbear0]

That would depend on how strong and fast they really are ,but I would say no I don't think flapping would work with that design.

[David Hingtgen]

Hayate was able to hover in mid-air wearing sneakers and a t-shirt, from the winds of Ragna. I imagine the legendary winds of Windermere could certainly turn a wing suit from glider to actually flying, at least some of the time.

[Seto Kaiba]

on a side note I want to know more about the Windermere flight/flying suits. At first glance they look like glide suits but given their obession with the wind I wonder if they could "flap their wings" to gain altitude.

It'd take an incredible amount of force to do that... especially since it looks like Windermere is an Earth-type planet in most respects, with gravity at or in the vicinity of 1G.

About caseless munition, there may even an in-universe explanation. Even military leaders could think overtechnology could at last solve caseless munition issues, but the very nature of that munition could be insurmountable even with that.

We can say with some certainty that they've licked caseless ammo's issues... given that several models of Valkyrie equip, as standard, gun pods that fire caseless rounds. Mostly Generation 3.5 or 4 designs like the VF-17, VF-22, or VF-171's gun pods.

[Vernon]

I have a question regarding the " Beam Grenade" mode on the Heavy Quantum Beam Gunpod.What is the main usage of the mode?

[Seto Kaiba]

I have a question regarding the " Beam Grenade" mode on the Heavy Quantum Beam Gunpod.What is the main usage of the mode?

Much the same as the regular mode... "Blowing crap up with extreme prejudice".

As far as I know, the closest any official source has come to identifying a concrete design intent for the beam grenade mode on the VF-27's gun pod was that it had firepower enough to penetrate the armor of the larger types of Vajra. It wouldn't be a stretch, based on what's shown in the series, to say it's an effective analog for a Strike Pack's anti-ship cannon.

[Vernon]

Much the same as the regular mode... "Blowing crap up with extreme prejudice".

As far as I know, the closest any official source has come to identifying a concrete design intent for the beam grenade mode on the VF-27's gun pod was that it had firepower enough to penetrate the armor of the larger types of Vajra. It wouldn't be a stretch, based on what's shown in the series, to say it's an effective analog for a Strike Pack's anti-ship cannon.

Noted Seto.And BTW,the VF-27,YF-29 and YF-30 all have this mode,couple up with the regular mode(rapid fire).Do you think the VF-31 carry the regular mode,cause so far i saw it did not demonstrate that capability.Maybe because of that it need the forearm gun to compensate that?

[Aries Turner]

We can say with some certainty that they've licked caseless ammo's issues... given that several models of Valkyrie equip, as standard, gun pods that fire caseless rounds. Mostly Generation 3.5 or 4 designs like the VF-17, VF-22, or VF-171's gun pods.

Maybe. Maybe not quite: although the VF-171 can use the VF-17 rifle, those are mostly equipped with GU-14. That and VF-22 being equipped with not in field rechargeable clipless rifles hints the three main issues with caseless munitions are still there, and a MC-17 repeat of SDFM personal rifle situation.

[bTW]: I remember something about the VF-31 not using Battroid mode in atmosphere because it is stated somewhere as not capable to do so (unless on ground). VF-0 to -22 had some kind of engine backpack (maybe not the VF-4 and -17, both mainly space fighters). When the VF-25 was introduced, those were deleted. That may be a reason as to why VF-25 are allways shown deployed in space with at least Super Packs, but that works opposite against the notion of those being needed in atmosphere for battroid mode. I feel a bit puzzled here, as much about the reasons for deletion, the role those auxiliary engines played in battroid mode and If we ever saw a VF-25 *flying* (not falling) as Battroid, without the packs.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Aries Turner

[trojan_gambit]

[bTW]: I remember something about the VF-31 not using Battroid mode in atmosphere because it is stated somewhere as not capable to do so (unless on ground). VF-0 to -22 had some kind of engine backpack (maybe not the VF-4 and -17, both mainly space fighters). When the VF-25 was introduced, those were deleted. That may be a reason as to why VF-25 are allways shown deployed in space with at least Super Packs, but that works opposite against the notion of those being needed in atmosphere for battroid mode. I feel a bit puzzled here, as much about the reasons for deletion, the role those auxiliary engines played in battroid mode and If we ever saw a VF-25 *flying* (not falling) as Battroid, without the packs.

Shouldn't the main thruster (or the leg thruster in Battroid mode) allow the Battroid to (at least) hover in atmosphere ?

About the backpack engine on VF-25 : on my DX toys (the old version that is), there are some kind of thruster like shape at the end of the fuselage (where the shield connect to the body). But I'm not sure if this is accurate to the actual design.

[Seto Kaiba]

Noted Seto.And BTW,the VF-27,YF-29 and YF-30 all have this mode,couple up with the regular mode(rapid fire).Do you think the VF-31 carry the regular mode,cause so far i saw it did not demonstrate that capability.Maybe because of that it need the forearm gun to compensate that?

We'll probably have to wait until the Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried book comes out to know for sure, since Macross Delta is apparently incredibly determined to neglect the mecha of the series like the proverbial redheaded stepchild.

It doesn't look like the VF-31's beam gun pod is set up for beam grenade mode, but it's gotta be generating some serious juice to use the regular mode, and a railgun isn't exactly light on energy consumption either and it's got two of those...

Maybe. Maybe not quite: although the VF-171 can use the VF-17 rifle, those are mostly equipped with GU-14. That and VF-22 being equipped with not in field rechargeable clipless rifles hints the three main issues with caseless munitions are still there, and a MC-17 repeat of SDFM personal rifle situation.

You do realize the MC-17C and GU-14B are almost the exact same gun pod, right?

The only appreciable differences between the two are the caliber of ammunition and the placement of the removable magazine. Other than that, the two are more or less identical. The CG model even preserved the surface detail of the MC-17 folding stock.

That the most common variable fighter in the galaxy and the de facto Special Forces VF both use caseless ammo would suggest that they do, in fact, have the problems inherent in modern caseless ammo quite thoroughly licked.

[bTW]: I remember something about the VF-31 not using Battroid mode in atmosphere because it is stated somewhere as not capable to do so (unless on ground).

The pamphlet for the 1/72 scale VF-31J model kit had a line in there about the VF-31 being unable to fly in Battroid mode... citing that it could only hover.

Based on what we saw last time the show's cast went to Voldor, that's clearly bunk. Hayate's VF-31J was shown flying in Battroid mode as he charged Keith's Sv-262Hs to stop him from one-upping Bogue by gunning down Walkure. Also, VFs with a fraction of the VF-31's engine power have been shown to be easily able to fly in Battroid mode in previous shows.

When the VF-25 was introduced, those were deleted.

No they weren't, they're still there... just better integrated into the body of the fighter. You can clearly see them being used to provide forward thrust for the VF-25's GERWALK mode in Ep2 of Frontier, and they're very much present in the line art and visible on some of the toys as well. Edited September 7, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[aurance]

It wouldn't surprise me with the amount of engine output that maneuvering thrusters alone could provide lift in battroid mode with the gen 5 fighters.

[Seto Kaiba]

It wouldn't surprise me with the amount of engine output that maneuvering thrusters alone could provide lift in battroid mode with the gen 5 fighters.

A good while before that, actually... if you remember, Hikaru VTOL's a VT-1 Super Ostrich with just the ventral verniers in order to get enough ground clearance to transform to GERWALK in Macross: Do You Remember Love?.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Zinjo]

It seems a bit inconsistent, since even in the 90's we were seeing futuristic firearms in the hands of UN Forces, the Varauta troops, and Zolans.

How'd the NUNS go backwards from laser machineguns to a rifle from 1995? They use a rifle no more advanced than the FAMAS G2 Shin was brandishing way back in Macross Zero...

Macross consistent? I suspect you have a greater degree of respect for such things compared to the franchise creator...

Dunno 'bout you, but photorealistic CG always comes off looking a bit odd or out of place to me... the articulations are never quite right, features blur unrealistically, etc.

Maybe they're just sticklers for authenticity, or maybe they just find using motion capture with a real Valkyrie makes for a more natural CG compositing job in postproduction? Every time they've filmed an in-universe docu-drama so far, they've used real Valkyries either as-is or as motion capture targets for later editing.

Sounds an awful lot like justifying a outdated explanation by proxy.

In the 90's when DYRL became an in universe movie, questions arose and answers were given (based upon what technical knowledge was available at the time).

It is now very dated and I see no reason to keep that as the official explanation considering so much has be retconned already. It is particularly relevant when one considers holographic technology had advanced substantially by the 2030's. So it is not a stretch to expect CGI advancements to be that much more realistic in the film industry by that time as well. Hell, 2009 saw substantial projection advancements already.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

Macross consistent? I suspect you have a greater degree of respect for such things compared to the franchise creator...

Well, the franchise owner certainly seems to care... but then, they really ought to start keeping Kawamori on a shorter leash.

Sounds an awful lot like justifying a outdated explanation by proxy.

In the 90's when DYRL became an in universe movie, questions arose and answers were given (based upon what technical knowledge was available at the time).

It is now very dated and I see no reason to keep that as the official explanation considering so much has be retconned already. It is particularly relevant when one considers holographic technology had advanced substantially by the 2030's. So it is not a stretch to expect CGI advancements to be that much more realistic in the film industry by that time as well. Hell, 2009 saw substantial projection advancements already.

Well, they're still doing it in-universe in 2059... using real Variable Fighters for motion capture in battle sequences.

Make of it what you will, but there has to be some practical or pragmatic reason they're paying for real variable fighters and helicopters and so on for their movies instead of using CG.

[Zinjo]

Shouldn't the main thruster (or the leg thruster in Battroid mode) allow the Battroid to (at least) hover in atmosphere ?

About the backpack engine on VF-25 : on my DX toys (the old version that is), there are some kind of thruster like shape at the end of the fuselage (where the shield connect to the body). But I'm not sure if this is accurate to the actual design.

I don't recall a back thruster, but that isn't to say it isn't there. I did notice the fighters "skated" in both battroid and especially in GERWALK and the thrust came from vents in the calves of the legs.

[Zinjo]

Well, the franchise owner certainly seems to care... but then, they really ought to start keeping Kawamori on a shorter leash.

Well, they're still doing it in-universe in 2059... using real Variable Fighters for motion capture in battle sequences.

Make of it what you will, but there has to be some practical or pragmatic reason they're paying for real variable fighters and helicopters and so on for their movies instead of using CG.

True, there are definitely pragmatic reasons for using real aircraft, but cloaking capital ships in a hologram for a film seems excessive and expensive to me...

Edited September 7, 2016 by Zinjo

[aurance]

I don't recall a back thruster, but that isn't to say it isn't there. I did notice the fighters "skated" in both battroid and especially in GERWALK and the thrust came from vents in the calves of the legs.

Yep, in the top left drawing, in the rear of the fuselage here, 2 banks of 3 thrusters each:

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossf/vf-25f/vf-25-lineart2.gif

You can see it on the DX (v.2.) toy where the shield connects to the back of the fighter.

[Seto Kaiba]

True, there are definitely pragmatic reasons for using real aircraft, but cloaking capital ships in a hologram for a film seems excessive and expensive to me...

Maybe... but then, large-scale applications of hologram technology in starships have been done for reasons scarcely less flimsy than that.

I'd suppose the propaganda value of the Do You Remember Love? movie was largely based on the presentation of more Zentradi fleets as a very real, very immediate threat. Unfortunately, a threat that in recent decades seems to have only popped up offscreen.

(Though I suppose, as an essentially defenseless training ship, some holographic camouflage ala YF-27-5 might not be an entirely bad idea for ships operating as part of emigrant fleets...)

EDIT: Come to think of it... why isn't this used to protect Island ships when they're operating independently of their docked carrier? Throw a barrier up, then turn that sucker invisible. "Target? What target? We're just some empty space, yo."

Edited September 8, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[ManhattanProject972]

Do we know just how much thrust a VF's verniers are capable of?

Because we see plenty of times those things have enough power to literally shove and throw the VF around while traveling at high speeds especially on the Ghosts which I assume rely heavily on them.

[Seto Kaiba]

Do we know just how much thrust a VF's verniers are capable of?

Because we see plenty of times those things have enough power to literally shove and throw the VF around while traveling at high speeds especially on the Ghosts which I assume rely heavily on them.

I don't believe it's ever been quantified in explicit terms, no... but the VF-1 uses verniers out on the wingtips for roll control even in atmospheric flight (finally animated as such in Macross Delta Ep.3), so the output of the high-thrust verniers must be pretty damned huge for their size (tens of kilonewtons).

[Graham]

Why couldn't the holosuits provide "actual" camoflage? If it can give them new clothes, why not allow them to blend into the environment?

The holosuits may only have a set number of pre-programmed outfits loaded into the memory.

Xaos/Walkure doesn't seem bright enough to come up with the idea of using the holosuits as Predator style active camoflage.