Aries Turner

The more I think about it, the more sense it does. Spacy role is not about protecting sea/space lanes nor actively pursuing pirate fleets. It just defends planets if attacked, and ships are supposedly safe while folding from planet to planet, emigration fleets being the only ones that usually fold out in the middle of nowhere. So Spacy does not actively pursue missions of a Navy. Spacy role is not folding deep, very deep into uncharted territory to search for prospective enemy production facilities for an strategic strike in the other far end of the Galaxy. Spacy just do planet hopping, securing planets before going further, not risking leaving a potentially hostile planet deep inside their influence area. So it is an unlikely 'Air Force'. Spacy claims, defend or even blockade land (planets). Spacy does not advance much before securing the rear. That is the army way. You may think of fleets as composed of battleships, carriers and flanking frigates, but may as well think about those as tanks, personnel carriers and scouts, crossing and surveying a battlefield. Km long tanks, hundred of meters APCs and tens of meters scouts, but still maneuvering as such.

I would say it is deliberate differentiation, doing something not too far fetched. We are USED to the idea about space forces correlating with Navy because Fantasy Space Battles are influenced by slow hulks in space moving at very low speeds relative to enemy fleets, while 'throwing cannonballs' at relatively close range, when in fact acceleration is the only thing that matters in space, where one vessel may be strafing other at tremendous relative speeds, while never in naked eye view range (but at distances of half a light second or less, due aiming constraints). Aviation in the beginning was just an Army tool to hit the rear of an opposing Army, or anything within that and the front. When the "Air Cavalry" was shown to be able to hit deeply into enemy territory, not to destroy the actual opposing Army but their supply lines, the Air Force was born to search for (strategic) targets beyond the Army immediate (tactical) needs. That is why bomber nukes are Air Force's, Tridents are Navy's, and Minuteman AREN'T Army's: intermediate range nukes are Army's, but global reach is Air Force area of expertise. BUT military requirements are the guidelines, not the nature of the weapon. IF helicopters are to be used beyond Army support duty to strike military installations deep into enemy territory, not while supporting the advancement of an Army, then those are Air Force, like in the Israeli Defense Forces. So an Space Force may fall into any of the three branches of the armed forces or be a fourth, with entirely different ranks. But some countries have more than just Army, Navy and Air Forces. Coast Guards may not depend of a Navy chain of command, depending instead on an entirely different one that is also charged with customs at airports and border patrols. Again, REQUIREMENTS are the guidelines, and Spacy may as well had ranks not present in any other branch. HOWEVER, you may think of the Spacy as advancing Tanks, Personnel Carriers (with planet landers) and VF 'choppers', no doubt an Army charging the enemy. As VFs are very short range in these engagements, there is NO deep strike capability without the 'Army' advancing. Occupying and defending land is one of Spacy objectives. Defending trade routes, not so much. So again, Army, not Navy.

Be VERY careful if you hear a rhythmic metallic sound:

Unless we account for the cockpit with Harrier like transformation lever controls of the first VF-1 blocks. That would however be sadism towards trainees. The point is the VF-1 started with less comfort, even if latest versions include EXGear controls and advanced AI. It could reasonably be made with throttleable difficulty, to simulate flying later VFs, harder on the chest and guts, while still in fact flying at manageable acceleration. But then again probably someone somewhere made a tailored version of every single model, or even yet unseen ones for the role, thus the adequate VF trainer is mostly a rhetorical question about overthinking an anime, because if a VF-25 can simulate a VF-0 (*), almost any model should be able to simulate the VF-1. (*) I am not talking about Legend of Zero stand-in, but Macross-R VF-0 lookalike that isn't.

As Mr. Sketchley pointed out as a translator note, this is an issue of definition: that VFMF does poorly trying to define what is the difference between Pioneer, Border and Emigrant Planets. But I explicitly recommended the VF-11C there, not the VF-5000, and you are right: the VF-1 WOULD STILL SUFFER most of the same problems the VF-11C would have, but aggravated with even less range in space and obsolescence. If anything, the VF-1 MAY be better in space performance than the VF-9, that was my other recommendation there (not the VF-5000), and I explicitly made that the VERY reason to choose the VF-11C instead. Yep. Seems we understood the very same thing. Even if it seems I did poorly stating the very same. [about the VF-1] Yep. That also. As said, the VF-1 would be less comfy than a VF-5000 while flying at about the same performance envelope. That would suppose some kind of challenge for a trainee that the VF-5000 wouldn't. Like real world trainer turboprops, deliberately choosing the temperamental ones over the charm to fly ones, to discipline the trainees.

As usual in VFMF, there are some text that embellishes serious contradictions. If for Pioneer Planets one should go for easy to maintain, simpler VFs, Zolans can't be stated wrong with the VF-5000, which is a simpler, lighter, easier on the engines, no frills, hardly offensive, purely defensive VF, able to go toe to toe with early series VF-1, newly built VT-1C and even double the installed power VA-3C. Emigrant Planets, freshly colonized by emigrant fleets, should have the know how needed to handle VF-171 or at least VF-11 air wings, as frequently depicted. Frontier Planets, I understand don't have the workforce of an Emigrant Planet but are also more at risk. The VF-9 may be an option as a superb atmospheric dogfighter with similar space limitations as the original VF-1 (maybe more acute). But we would be making the assumption the VF-11 isn't an option for whatever the reason, as VF-9 complex transformation runs counter to maintainability, while the VF-11C is already a corners cut, simpler VF-11B, with almost no loss in fighting ability. HOWEVER, it is my understanding of the text the VF-1Z is a simpler, more rugged, still similar or slightly superior version of the VF-1. A new baseline, with improved construction techniques. THAT may be a valid reason to still build the VF-1. Because if not, VF-5000 seems a better fit. I would rather accept the notion VF-1 is still produced as a somewhat unforgiving beast, less comfy than later designs, and thus able to be a reasonable challenge for a trainee. Besides preserving the know how about the basic principles behind VFs, both in construction and actual use.

That somewhat puzzles me. Someone had to imprison the Protodeviln somewhere in time, and given Zentran and Meltran reaction to Protodeviln mere presence, points to Protoculture itself. So protoculture survived that conflict. Being destroyed by traps left, their Zentran minions or even an unknown still free Protodeviln that wasn't imprisoned but destroyed or banished in some other place or way is a possibility. Other possibility, however, is lack of communication between surviving pockets leading to genetic diversity and maybe even forgetting their true origins. Or mixing with local population. .

Oops. :ashamed: Not the first to do so: HWR-00 are seen rolling in the Mars operations in SDFM. Either it was heavy animation simplification, or the thing had threads.

The HWR-00 Monster was stated somewhere to be inspired in Sumo fighters and the Sumo fighter fighting stance. Reed somewhere also that a Sumo fighter stomping with both feet is supposed to symbolize stomping over evil. And thus also puny hangar floors About Cheyenne..., yes, yes, yes, but still seems more advanced than any previous... or should I say LATER destroid. All is fixed in statistics adjusting and history tweaking, but the model per-se couldn't do that without that background facts. Even stating it was used in a military role by refurbishing fails to explain adequately why it got obsolete in SDFM and DYRL, and any background explanation to overcome that will just be retconning and history fixing, thus implying what is said already: KW doesn't care, nor needs to, about the timeframe to include his new cool toy, even if the setting is prior to mainline series, because that is the job of the personnel charged with canon continuity. Even if he included Escaflowne alongside the Orgus Valkyrie: 'MBR-06 Escaflowne. Losed the contract the MBR-07 won for close quarters Battle Robot, later refined in the MBR-06 Mk II variant that included first instance of transformation ability. Both versions built by Dwayne Enterprises of New Gottingham Island as a private venture. Both in black, for whatever reason.' "I'm Batmaw!" http://macross2.net/m3/moremecha/escaflowne-black.htm

It is like Zero. We have both the ADR-03 and VF-0 and both look more advanced than later -04 series destroids and VF-1, because SK said ALREADY he would do things differently, make it better because he have developed his technique. Enter canon-conscious, series polishing people: 'Lets make ADR-03 and VF-0 engines not OTEC based and ADR-03 weapons GAU-12 of AV-8B fame. Lets make the VF-0 an unconstrained, bigger prototype, where cost per unit is not a concern. Lets make it a testbed for technologies to be introduced later in the VF-1 line when space and cost requirements drop to be integrated seamlessly. OK, people, canon is safe again.' But then Frontier happens and SK liked the ADR-03 so much he included it yet again. Enter canon polishing people: 'O-K... Frontier are somewhat more obsessed with preserving culture the most, but that Lancia Delta Integrale is in fact more modern internally than anything seen in Macross 7. So Cheyenne 2 and Worker integrate more advanced engines than anything -04 and -07 series destroids ever mounted, for better SWAG energy conversion armor, better resilience, more firepower and STILL just being glorified Patroid units like those used in Macross-7. Even if resembling past military units, these are civil protection units and thus not reach military grade protection or weaponry of VFs (I am cheating here, as the series included a Macross attack.). Canon is safe again, people. Wait. You really mean it when saying you would tweak Nora's SV-51 into VF-27 Lucifer? Pretty please, be joking.' But then Delta happens and management reuses Cheyenne 2 yet again in a clearly military role. Enter fatigued canon polishing people: 'Okey Dokey, we are screwed. Make this we are in a Zola like undeveloped sector using sub-par technology, that asked Frontier for cheapo rent-a-Destroid units and something about as capable as VT-1C construction Valkyrie, without transformation or high-speed capabilities, because a worker shouldn't have Lamborghini Coupe capabilities in their Lamborghini Caterpillar. Wait, Hayate would use one to skate and dance? Damn! OK, I resign! Damn you, people!'

Bingo! ...or the Collector's Edition, or Definite Compilation, or Remastered Full Cut, or Blade Runner the way you really, really, really wanted it to happen. Max and Miria wedding macronized (unseen scene), or battling in Q-Rau, seems a propaganda effort to more readily accept Zentran culture also. Distrust may be high even behind the scenes, like blacksplotation overcompensating or depicting a state of acceptance that just isn't there. Klan-Klan, Veffidas, Guld, Warera, Ruri and Konda ( ) being your average asian latino black Philip Michael Thomas in the 80's series equivalent.

MECHA The VF-31A "Kairos" is not there? I was under the impression the toy was doing better than Delta units. MUSIC Obelisk?

So the reaction warhead net effect was making it finally blossom. Congrats to the proud fathers.

That reminded me: recently saw Macross Dynamite. Basara's borrowed VF-19P have a conventional head unit, but then he opens it helmet-like to show a face beneath? WTF! BTW: Delta featured Apples and a Shinigami. Did someone spot Ryuk? No Death Note? Was (L)ady (M) another veiled reference? Can someone pretty please put Hayate's name in that piece of paper?

As said, I mostly agree. Mostly. And I do not intend to enforce another classification, because, as in the real world, those are merely a loose guide, like treating advanced variants of the Flanker as 4.75+ instead of 4.5+ when no clear outcome nor clear clash between generations could derive a definite conclusion. I will just air some objections for you to ponder their merit or lack of, just for the shake of discussion. First, lessons should be learned on any confrontation. Israelis added longer exhaust to their A-4s to mitigate SAM effects on those, but wouldn't merit a .1 upgrade in their classification. If F-16 are Gen4 and F-21 (F-16 Block 70+, not the Kfir) are 4.75, where do I place an F-16 Block 30? VF-4s MAY be 2nd Generation, even if mostly a VF-1 amalgamated with a Strike Pack. But that is the Macross equivalent of treating the F-15E differently than a F-15C with fuel tanks. But even if not clear enough, the VF-5000 does not feel generationally over the VF-1. Younger, sure, but generationally it is 1.1 at best. Otherwise, the EF-2000 would be 5th generation, or the Chinese F-8 would be 4th gen, while in fact, as MiG-21 derived, would be 3.95+ at most. The VF-5000 is like making today, intentionally, a 4th gen. equivalent cheap trainer craft, like the Korean F/A-50, superior to early F-16 variants. If 2nd generation defining factors are Zentran and beam weaponry, the only one that uses beam technology is the VF-4, and not much Zentran tech is seen that differs so substantially of already gathered from Macross. VF-11 had bigger fuel tanks, lighter frame, stronger SWAG, but the real difference with the VF-1 was engine power and having a shield. No, that is not true: avionics and awareness seemed better than VF-1 and VF-0 (that had better imagery and controls than first VF-1 blocks). So if the VF-5000 is fairly 1.1, the VF-3000 1.5 and the VF-9 1.75+, I don't know where to put VF-4 and VF-11. Maybe 2 and 2.9? Shouldn't the VF-9 be 2.7 then? What is clear is that having fighter grade pin-point barriers is revolutionary and deserves a generation of its own. What is less clear is if that makes 4th, 3rd or even 2nd.