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Aries Turner

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  1. The more I think about it, the more sense it does. Spacy role is not about protecting sea/space lanes nor actively pursuing pirate fleets. It just defends planets if attacked, and ships are supposedly safe while folding from planet to planet, emigration fleets being the only ones that usually fold out in the middle of nowhere. So Spacy does not actively pursue missions of a Navy. Spacy role is not folding deep, very deep into uncharted territory to search for prospective enemy production facilities for an strategic strike in the other far end of the Galaxy. Spacy just do planet hopping, securing planets before going further, not risking leaving a potentially hostile planet deep inside their influence area. So it is an unlikely 'Air Force'. Spacy claims, defend or even blockade land (planets). Spacy does not advance much before securing the rear. That is the army way. You may think of fleets as composed of battleships, carriers and flanking frigates, but may as well think about those as tanks, personnel carriers and scouts, crossing and surveying a battlefield. Km long tanks, hundred of meters APCs and tens of meters scouts, but still maneuvering as such.
  2. I would say it is deliberate differentiation, doing something not too far fetched. We are USED to the idea about space forces correlating with Navy because Fantasy Space Battles are influenced by slow hulks in space moving at very low speeds relative to enemy fleets, while 'throwing cannonballs' at relatively close range, when in fact acceleration is the only thing that matters in space, where one vessel may be strafing other at tremendous relative speeds, while never in naked eye view range (but at distances of half a light second or less, due aiming constraints). Aviation in the beginning was just an Army tool to hit the rear of an opposing Army, or anything within that and the front. When the "Air Cavalry" was shown to be able to hit deeply into enemy territory, not to destroy the actual opposing Army but their supply lines, the Air Force was born to search for (strategic) targets beyond the Army immediate (tactical) needs. That is why bomber nukes are Air Force's, Tridents are Navy's, and Minuteman AREN'T Army's: intermediate range nukes are Army's, but global reach is Air Force area of expertise. BUT military requirements are the guidelines, not the nature of the weapon. IF helicopters are to be used beyond Army support duty to strike military installations deep into enemy territory, not while supporting the advancement of an Army, then those are Air Force, like in the Israeli Defense Forces. So an Space Force may fall into any of the three branches of the armed forces or be a fourth, with entirely different ranks. But some countries have more than just Army, Navy and Air Forces. Coast Guards may not depend of a Navy chain of command, depending instead on an entirely different one that is also charged with customs at airports and border patrols. Again, REQUIREMENTS are the guidelines, and Spacy may as well had ranks not present in any other branch. HOWEVER, you may think of the Spacy as advancing Tanks, Personnel Carriers (with planet landers) and VF 'choppers', no doubt an Army charging the enemy. As VFs are very short range in these engagements, there is NO deep strike capability without the 'Army' advancing. Occupying and defending land is one of Spacy objectives. Defending trade routes, not so much. So again, Army, not Navy.
  3. Be VERY careful if you hear a rhythmic metallic sound:
  4. Unless we account for the cockpit with Harrier like transformation lever controls of the first VF-1 blocks. That would however be sadism towards trainees. The point is the VF-1 started with less comfort, even if latest versions include EXGear controls and advanced AI. It could reasonably be made with throttleable difficulty, to simulate flying later VFs, harder on the chest and guts, while still in fact flying at manageable acceleration. But then again probably someone somewhere made a tailored version of every single model, or even yet unseen ones for the role, thus the adequate VF trainer is mostly a rhetorical question about overthinking an anime, because if a VF-25 can simulate a VF-0 (*), almost any model should be able to simulate the VF-1. (*) I am not talking about Legend of Zero stand-in, but Macross-R VF-0 lookalike that isn't.
  5. As Mr. Sketchley pointed out as a translator note, this is an issue of definition: that VFMF does poorly trying to define what is the difference between Pioneer, Border and Emigrant Planets. But I explicitly recommended the VF-11C there, not the VF-5000, and you are right: the VF-1 WOULD STILL SUFFER most of the same problems the VF-11C would have, but aggravated with even less range in space and obsolescence. If anything, the VF-1 MAY be better in space performance than the VF-9, that was my other recommendation there (not the VF-5000), and I explicitly made that the VERY reason to choose the VF-11C instead. Yep. Seems we understood the very same thing. Even if it seems I did poorly stating the very same. [about the VF-1] Yep. That also. As said, the VF-1 would be less comfy than a VF-5000 while flying at about the same performance envelope. That would suppose some kind of challenge for a trainee that the VF-5000 wouldn't. Like real world trainer turboprops, deliberately choosing the temperamental ones over the charm to fly ones, to discipline the trainees.
  6. As usual in VFMF, there are some text that embellishes serious contradictions. If for Pioneer Planets one should go for easy to maintain, simpler VFs, Zolans can't be stated wrong with the VF-5000, which is a simpler, lighter, easier on the engines, no frills, hardly offensive, purely defensive VF, able to go toe to toe with early series VF-1, newly built VT-1C and even double the installed power VA-3C. Emigrant Planets, freshly colonized by emigrant fleets, should have the know how needed to handle VF-171 or at least VF-11 air wings, as frequently depicted. Frontier Planets, I understand don't have the workforce of an Emigrant Planet but are also more at risk. The VF-9 may be an option as a superb atmospheric dogfighter with similar space limitations as the original VF-1 (maybe more acute). But we would be making the assumption the VF-11 isn't an option for whatever the reason, as VF-9 complex transformation runs counter to maintainability, while the VF-11C is already a corners cut, simpler VF-11B, with almost no loss in fighting ability. HOWEVER, it is my understanding of the text the VF-1Z is a simpler, more rugged, still similar or slightly superior version of the VF-1. A new baseline, with improved construction techniques. THAT may be a valid reason to still build the VF-1. Because if not, VF-5000 seems a better fit. I would rather accept the notion VF-1 is still produced as a somewhat unforgiving beast, less comfy than later designs, and thus able to be a reasonable challenge for a trainee. Besides preserving the know how about the basic principles behind VFs, both in construction and actual use.
  7. That somewhat puzzles me. Someone had to imprison the Protodeviln somewhere in time, and given Zentran and Meltran reaction to Protodeviln mere presence, points to Protoculture itself. So protoculture survived that conflict. Being destroyed by traps left, their Zentran minions or even an unknown still free Protodeviln that wasn't imprisoned but destroyed or banished in some other place or way is a possibility. Other possibility, however, is lack of communication between surviving pockets leading to genetic diversity and maybe even forgetting their true origins. Or mixing with local population. .
  8. Oops. :ashamed: Not the first to do so: HWR-00 are seen rolling in the Mars operations in SDFM. Either it was heavy animation simplification, or the thing had threads.
  9. The HWR-00 Monster was stated somewhere to be inspired in Sumo fighters and the Sumo fighter fighting stance. Reed somewhere also that a Sumo fighter stomping with both feet is supposed to symbolize stomping over evil. And thus also puny hangar floors About Cheyenne..., yes, yes, yes, but still seems more advanced than any previous... or should I say LATER destroid. All is fixed in statistics adjusting and history tweaking, but the model per-se couldn't do that without that background facts. Even stating it was used in a military role by refurbishing fails to explain adequately why it got obsolete in SDFM and DYRL, and any background explanation to overcome that will just be retconning and history fixing, thus implying what is said already: KW doesn't care, nor needs to, about the timeframe to include his new cool toy, even if the setting is prior to mainline series, because that is the job of the personnel charged with canon continuity. Even if he included Escaflowne alongside the Orgus Valkyrie: 'MBR-06 Escaflowne. Losed the contract the MBR-07 won for close quarters Battle Robot, later refined in the MBR-06 Mk II variant that included first instance of transformation ability. Both versions built by Dwayne Enterprises of New Gottingham Island as a private venture. Both in black, for whatever reason.' "I'm Batmaw!" http://macross2.net/m3/moremecha/escaflowne-black.htm
  10. It is like Zero. We have both the ADR-03 and VF-0 and both look more advanced than later -04 series destroids and VF-1, because SK said ALREADY he would do things differently, make it better because he have developed his technique. Enter canon-conscious, series polishing people: 'Lets make ADR-03 and VF-0 engines not OTEC based and ADR-03 weapons GAU-12 of AV-8B fame. Lets make the VF-0 an unconstrained, bigger prototype, where cost per unit is not a concern. Lets make it a testbed for technologies to be introduced later in the VF-1 line when space and cost requirements drop to be integrated seamlessly. OK, people, canon is safe again.' But then Frontier happens and SK liked the ADR-03 so much he included it yet again. Enter canon polishing people: 'O-K... Frontier are somewhat more obsessed with preserving culture the most, but that Lancia Delta Integrale is in fact more modern internally than anything seen in Macross 7. So Cheyenne 2 and Worker integrate more advanced engines than anything -04 and -07 series destroids ever mounted, for better SWAG energy conversion armor, better resilience, more firepower and STILL just being glorified Patroid units like those used in Macross-7. Even if resembling past military units, these are civil protection units and thus not reach military grade protection or weaponry of VFs (I am cheating here, as the series included a Macross attack.). Canon is safe again, people. Wait. You really mean it when saying you would tweak Nora's SV-51 into VF-27 Lucifer? Pretty please, be joking.' But then Delta happens and management reuses Cheyenne 2 yet again in a clearly military role. Enter fatigued canon polishing people: 'Okey Dokey, we are screwed. Make this we are in a Zola like undeveloped sector using sub-par technology, that asked Frontier for cheapo rent-a-Destroid units and something about as capable as VT-1C construction Valkyrie, without transformation or high-speed capabilities, because a worker shouldn't have Lamborghini Coupe capabilities in their Lamborghini Caterpillar. Wait, Hayate would use one to skate and dance? Damn! OK, I resign! Damn you, people!'
  11. Bingo! ...or the Collector's Edition, or Definite Compilation, or Remastered Full Cut, or Blade Runner the way you really, really, really wanted it to happen. Max and Miria wedding macronized (unseen scene), or battling in Q-Rau, seems a propaganda effort to more readily accept Zentran culture also. Distrust may be high even behind the scenes, like blacksplotation overcompensating or depicting a state of acceptance that just isn't there. Klan-Klan, Veffidas, Guld, Warera, Ruri and Konda ( ) being your average asian latino black Philip Michael Thomas in the 80's series equivalent.
  12. MECHA The VF-31A "Kairos" is not there? I was under the impression the toy was doing better than Delta units. MUSIC Obelisk?
  13. So the reaction warhead net effect was making it finally blossom. Congrats to the proud fathers.
  14. That reminded me: recently saw Macross Dynamite. Basara's borrowed VF-19P have a conventional head unit, but then he opens it helmet-like to show a face beneath? WTF! BTW: Delta featured Apples and a Shinigami. Did someone spot Ryuk? No Death Note? Was (L)ady (M) another veiled reference? Can someone pretty please put Hayate's name in that piece of paper?
  15. As said, I mostly agree. Mostly. And I do not intend to enforce another classification, because, as in the real world, those are merely a loose guide, like treating advanced variants of the Flanker as 4.75+ instead of 4.5+ when no clear outcome nor clear clash between generations could derive a definite conclusion. I will just air some objections for you to ponder their merit or lack of, just for the shake of discussion. First, lessons should be learned on any confrontation. Israelis added longer exhaust to their A-4s to mitigate SAM effects on those, but wouldn't merit a .1 upgrade in their classification. If F-16 are Gen4 and F-21 (F-16 Block 70+, not the Kfir) are 4.75, where do I place an F-16 Block 30? VF-4s MAY be 2nd Generation, even if mostly a VF-1 amalgamated with a Strike Pack. But that is the Macross equivalent of treating the F-15E differently than a F-15C with fuel tanks. But even if not clear enough, the VF-5000 does not feel generationally over the VF-1. Younger, sure, but generationally it is 1.1 at best. Otherwise, the EF-2000 would be 5th generation, or the Chinese F-8 would be 4th gen, while in fact, as MiG-21 derived, would be 3.95+ at most. The VF-5000 is like making today, intentionally, a 4th gen. equivalent cheap trainer craft, like the Korean F/A-50, superior to early F-16 variants. If 2nd generation defining factors are Zentran and beam weaponry, the only one that uses beam technology is the VF-4, and not much Zentran tech is seen that differs so substantially of already gathered from Macross. VF-11 had bigger fuel tanks, lighter frame, stronger SWAG, but the real difference with the VF-1 was engine power and having a shield. No, that is not true: avionics and awareness seemed better than VF-1 and VF-0 (that had better imagery and controls than first VF-1 blocks). So if the VF-5000 is fairly 1.1, the VF-3000 1.5 and the VF-9 1.75+, I don't know where to put VF-4 and VF-11. Maybe 2 and 2.9? Shouldn't the VF-9 be 2.7 then? What is clear is that having fighter grade pin-point barriers is revolutionary and deserves a generation of its own. What is less clear is if that makes 4th, 3rd or even 2nd.
  16. First, I know about your work in progress efforts to distinguish generations and mostly agree with it. More to it later. ...but we know Q-Rea reactor improved on those, but not doubling output, so we have a pretty general idea. Although I remembered about Hikaru using head lasers against Bodolza, he used those for the little extra firepower. Most of the damage was made with his many other weapons. Ditto for Max vs Milia. I knew about SDF lasers adding to the show, but I can't remember if those did any damage or if Robotech extra painted lasers did. Anyway, I was using the somewhat retconned fact that Frontier established great power output was needed for significant beam effects. Even if Gamlin used beams against Elgerzoln to great effect. That is why I abused the fact most Tomahawks seen firing are always depicted as standing in place. Didn't know. That is neat. So no revolutionary jump in technology, just a Zentran take on it (and bigger engines in the VF-14, as in the VF-3000). I thought, wrongly, that the VF-17 was the first to use Q-Rau technology because of the missiles, arm mounted guns, thus I made the wrong assumption that it was the first step in replicating the Q-Rau when in fact the YF-21 was such first step and the VF-17 was merely a design choice. And I agree that while the Q-Rea meant successful replication, it didn't mean such technology would be no longer refined. But the VF-27 isn't simply an evolutionary step, because its engines are a revolutionary step ahead. Obviously all VFs have a lineage, descending from the SV-51, the VF-X, the VF-0 or a combination.
  17. Although titular protagonist of the series, the VFs I mean, is Kawamori-san endlesly playing with his origami fighters, I notice evolutionary and revolutionary designs. I mean, engine thrust from VF-1 to VF-11 is almost gradually improving. VF-4 is slightly higher, VF-4G slightly more, VF-9, VA-3 and VF-3000, more so. VF-5000 is like an all or nothing simplified version of the VF-1. The VF-11 is somewhat odd in that engine power jumps a little more than previous steps, but there is nothing fundamentally different with her and the VF-1. Although the VF-4 sported beam cannons, engine power was nowhere near what Zentran equipment managed. While having forward firing beam weaponry, neither the VF-1 or the VF-9 would hope to defeat Zentraedi battlepods with just that. VF-4 supposedly packed a somewhat higher punch, but only MBR-04 achieved some appreciable results, at low fire rate and while stationary, power depleted after each shot to even attempt at relocating. Both VF-5000 and VF-11 gave up on forward firing beam weaponry, although acknowledged its usefulness as point defense and general tool. Having no viable backup weapon, the VF-11 opted for battlefield rechargeable gunpods over an energy based inexhaustible weapon that wasn't any good if unable to dent Zentran armor. So the VF-11 was the end of the VF-1 evolutionary road. The VF-14 and VF-17, however, seem to have exploited the stolen Q-Rau manufacturing satellite technologies. Their engines quadrupled previous energy output. Even VF-11 engines seems to have taken cues, even if still half of what the VF-14 output was (maybe General Galaxy meddling with the amount of information that Shinshei was given). The fact that the VF-14 was armed to the gills but half the weapons had atrocious firing arcs was maybe the deciding factor of the VF-11 winning the contract with its all or nothing approach, but the VF-17 was truly revolutionary, with the YF-21 first and the Q-Rea later marking the end of the particular evolutionary road the VF-17 started. Those, however, still needed pretty complex and maintenance intensive machinery to barely surpass what protoculture could do with shoemaker shop made rifles and Liberty-class grade, previous centuries technology dependable, Nupetiet-Vergnitz. Zentran weaponry was engineered to be idiot-proof and idiot-buildable. As such, the first one (and latest) ever made was using technology centuries obsolete just for durability. It is no surprise Zentran and Meltran are wary of Protoculture ruins, as those sport the real weaponry capability of Protoculture. The VF-25, as the VF-1 and VF-24 before, is a revolutionary weapon taking technology to the extreme to fight overwhelming odds. Its maintenance should be nightmarish. YF-29 should be even way worse. It feels somewhat logical than the evolutionary road would produce the VF-31 along the way, being to the VF-25 the VF-5000 equivalent to the VF-1. I mean, in real life it is Kawamori-san taking the backpack thrusters of the VF-1 pointed the right way in fighter mode with the VF-11, then having the cockpit in a more protected place in the VF-19, making the VFs transformable while in heavy armor with the VF-25, developing an integral turret in the YF-29, then storing the arms elsewhere to make room for a container that could store more than turrets,... But in universe, it all feels like real fighter generations.
  18. VF-25 was said to be Kawamori's second, more informed, wiser attempt at redoing the VF-1. Frontier have some parallelism with DYRL, with an even more alien antagonist forces. VF-31 was stated somewhere to be the same approach about both the VF-11 and VF-19. Delta also have some parallelism with 7 if you think of Pretty Glasses as Geperunichi, particularly at the end. So second Delta movie will feature Fire Bomber against illegal galactic whaling. I mean, Walk├╝re going full environmentally conscious. Or something like that.
  19. Also, both the series and the movie are docudramas in-universe. The guy is an arms dealer and is talking about history. That is like your average sales guy talking about viking invasions just by seeing the Vikings series.
  20. Possible caveat: being commissioned in the 2030s doesn't necessarily mean it was christened with that name. It MAY have sported another name and AFTER SDFN-04 loss, it was renamed. At least two r/l SSN suffered a similar destiny. Frontier movies or Delta movie? Or both. It seems in the end they got a heavier, maybe sturdier VF-19ish. Even if not for the Vajra, attrition should have been high. Desperate times, desperate measures. VT-1Cs are still being produced? Is there any other civilian grade Valkyrie out there? While there is a lot of hardware in Macross The Ride, rationale implies there must be something in between, be it demilitarized civilian VF-5000s or something that wouldn't be oiling the pavement like half century old Harley VT-1Cs Davidsons.
  21. Oh, boy. In r/l, the explanation is lack of enough quality control. HOWEVER, in-universe, this endorses in a way the idea humanity have decentralized, with two independent governments both naming a vessel honouring Global and... er... what did we say about the deep end of rabbit holes and tea and cigars?
  22. One could conclude the Uraga was named after SDFN-04 loss?
  23. As alarming as it is to see not one, but three or four clones of yourself, and as puzzled with the sheer amount of philosophical questions that would kick-in, we are talking about Macross Universe, not ours. In Macross universe, pragmatism ensued as there was no plan B: all the remaining genetic variance was required in all of the colonization efforts. A portion on each just wouldn't do, so one grew accustomed to the presence of oneself clones, eased by the short amount of time interacting. While the previous paragraph mostly addresses JB0 worries, it also addresses yours: your question is inconsequential to them. Both are originals, because both are copies of the same. Who is the prior one is just a cosmetic distinction in the end. So one Minmei endured the mantle of being forced to be the idol hero, that while still adolescent had the destiny of all mankind over her fragile pubescent shoulders, just because in a brutal and perversely fated way it also aligned with her own goals before the war. The other Minmei just explored being freed of the burden, even at the cost of her dream, to be able to search for another new dreams, as any other young adult does. One wonders if Max and Milia had that many childs or all those are genetically their childs but not necesarily brothers and sisters, not even from the same fleet. Macross 7 Max and Milia are the real ones and act as such, as any other pair aboard some other vessels. Bilrer may well be obsessed with the Minmei that never turned back her idol mantle. But MAY have failed in his effort so much that MAY have settled with a Minmei that knew of his effort, contacted him, and "while I left all that long ago, I undoubtedly was her once, and I accept in my later years to take the mantle once more for that Mikumo insane project of yours. For the lulz, for trolling Macross World Forums with Delta stridency, for old times shake, and because I never really grew up to adulthood and still am a sixty something spoiled lass."
  24. While some in universe characters are obsessed with Minmay, most do not make a fuss about Megaroad-01 disappearance. If you look closely Macross FB2012, there is a certain poetic license where Minmay is looking at herself walking down the street/ leaving in Megaroad-01. Or is it? We know for certain lots of these early colonization efforts were accomplished via HEAVY CLONING. So, in fact, there may be a Minmay that departed AND one that remained. And although possible, probably not any aboard subsequent colonization missions. If she had, she would not be as sorely missed as she seems to be. But one which departed into legend and one that remained to live an anonymous, simple life? Entirely possible. For me, Megaroad-01 collided into a star, was blown to bits by a Zentraedi fleet, discovered the WRONG protoculture relic, all of the aforementioned or any other reason. But is not such a loss, because most of the crew also departed on other colonization efforts as clones, until cloning was banned.
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