HG and Robotech Debates

[Squird5]

So, are there any real reasons to watch RT? It's not sounding that intriguing in my opinion...

Before it sounded like a crappy ripoff of SDF... Now it sounds like a really crappy ripoff of a few things...

[Gubaba]

So, are there any real reasons to watch RT? It's not sounding that intriguing in my opinion...

Before it sounded like a crappy ripoff of SDF... Now it sounds like a really crappy ripoff of a few things...

Do you REALLY have to ask what OUR answer will be...?

If you ask on Robotech.com, you'll get a different answer, of course.

[azrael]

Do you REALLY have to ask what OUR answer will be...?

If you ask on Robotech.com, you'll get a different answer, of course.

Agreed.

Best solution is to Hulu or Youtube (yes, it's legally available to watch on Youtube) and watch the episodes. Once you're done, come back to us and tell us if you enjoyed or wasted 1909 minutes of your life.

[Squird5]

So, just don't bother with it.

Though a live action version might be fun to see, just to laugh at in the middle of the theater...

[azrael]

So, just don't bother with it.

No. We have members here who did enjoy RT. What we're saying is a while a majority of us will say, "Don't waste your time", we do have a few who will say "Go ahead and watch it". And if you go to Robotech.com, you'll get a reverse of our answer.

What I'm telling you is go watch it yourself and come back to us and tell us what you thought when you have finished it.

[Legioss]

The important thing is after you watch it, don't get on the Internet and act like you really saw the implied off-camera parts of Robotech and how much more epic than Macross you thought it was or make excuses for Robotech like "well you gotta understand the restrictions they were/are under" to try to make it sound like it's more entertaining to a modern audience than it is and that Harmony Gold is doing their best. Robotech is what it is. It's confusing but interesting.

[Einherjar]

There's also avoiding paying real money for any products with the Robotech, Harmony Gold, and Toynami brand name on it. The investment pretty much leads nowhere and people generally get screwed from it.

[Funkenstein]

If Harmony Gold needs someone to revitalize RTech, then they should hire Joseph Lai. The guy knows how to combine terrible shows to create an even more terrible show.

[Moly_Sigang]

If Harmony Gold needs someone to revitalize RTech, then they should hire Joseph Lai. The guy knows how to combine terrible shows to create an even more terrible show.

And by terrible show you mean like Raiders Of Galaxy?

Edited June 7, 2010 by Moly_Sigang

[Funkenstein]

And by terrible show you mean like Raiders Of Galaxy?

More like Space Thunder Kids.

[Jasonc]

So, just don't bother with it.

Though a live action version might be fun to see, just to laugh at in the middle of the theater...

To give you my take on your "is Robotech worth it" question. I've been a fan of both for a long time. While I've seen both several times, and without going into details, I found the original to be better. That's not to say I think Robotech sucks (unless you count what's come out since the original incarnation of Robotech, then it sucks). I even thought Sentinels, or the little that was shown, was alright, but I digress...I like the original, I like what it's lead to today, and I like the bigger story. In anycase, try hulu, then judge for yourself.

[Robelwell202]

Though a live action version might be fun to see, just to laugh at in the middle of the theater...

The sad part is, the hard-core fanboys are clinging to any kind of Hollywood news, in the hope of it fruthering the cause of the RT:LAM. The latest craze is as follows...

Since Gillermo Del Torro has passed on the Hobbit, the die-hards are swearing up and down that it means that Gillermo is all rarin' to go for the LAM...

Sick, demented, and funny, but also sad and depressing at the same time.

[Gubaba]

The sad part is, the hard-core fanboys are clinging to any kind of Hollywood news, in the hope of it fruthering the cause of the RT:LAM. The latest craze is as follows...

Since Gillermo Del Torro has passed on the Hobbit, the die-hards are swearing up and down that it means that Gillermo is all rarin' to go for the LAM...

Sick, demented, and funny, but also sad and depressing at the same time.

I'd see it if it were directed by Guillermo del Toro.

[Seto Kaiba]

So, just don't bother with it.

Yeah, more or less.

Individual reasons for doing so may vary, but you can expect that most of the people who are actually familiar with Robotech and aren't members of its tiny-yet-fanatical fanbase will tell you not to waste your time on it. In practice, it's not THAT bad, but Robotech's dialogue and story were weak even when they were new, and they've aged like unrefrigerated milk. If you saw any or all of the originals beforehand, it's a safe bet you'll find Robotech somewhere between confusing and downright obnoxious. I'd still say you should watch a few episodes and see for yourself, but don't expect it to wow you.

There's also avoiding paying real money for any products with the Robotech, Harmony Gold, and Toynami brand name on it. The investment pretty much leads nowhere and people generally get screwed from it.

Pretty much... I still maintain that the reason they've switched to this method of late has been that the Masterpiece Collection finally bombed out, and that since the store's cluttered with extremely-limited-edition collectibles that have yet to sell out after a good 2-3 years in the store, they're putting the kibosh on making their own goods and just acting as a reseller for import toys while they wait and pray that Warner will just buy the franchise from them to eliminate the legal hurdles.

The sad part is, the hard-core fanboys are clinging to any kind of Hollywood news, in the hope of it fruthering the cause of the RT:LAM. The latest craze is as follows...

Since Gillermo Del Torro has passed on the Hobbit, the die-hards are swearing up and down that it means that Gillermo is all rarin' to go for the LAM...

Sick, demented, and funny, but also sad and depressing at the same time.

Well come on... what were you expecting? These ARE the same people who told everyone who would listen (and a few people who wouldn't) that Paramount rushed Transformers 2 out the door for fear that the Robotech movie was going to steal its thunder, and have been claiming that every single event in Hollywood somehow has something to do with the influence of the Robotech movie.

These mental cases were actually EXCITED that Sylvain White'd been shown the story treatment.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Funkenstein]

If Del Toro does it, then expect the Zentraedi to by some kind of Cthulu creatures.

[Squird5]

If Del Toro does it, then expect the Zentraedi to by some kind of Cthulu creatures.

That just sounds creepy...

"99% human my ass! HAHA!!"

[chrisk]

The sad part is, the hard-core fanboys are clinging to any kind of Hollywood news, in the hope of it furthering the cause of the RT:LAM. The latest craze is as follows...

On a side note,

"Variety is reporting that America's favorite combining robot, Voltron, is taking a route more similar to the recently announced Thundercats revival than its big screen toy tie-ins brethren G.I Joe and Transformers. Marking the franchise's 25th anniversary, a new, animated 26 episode "Voltron Force, will run Nicktoons alongside Mattel toy launch in 2011.

The last twist in the Voltron revival development saga had been a project reboot, with prior movie scripts discarded and a harder-edged, PG-13-rated Voltron OVA in the vein of The Animatrix and Batman: Gotham Knight is being discussed."

Read more at http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45391

I kind of drifted away from the eternal tedium that is the Robotech franchise, but this news caught my eye. Why doesn't Tommy just give up his vainglorious Hollywood ambitions and go with a rebooted series to you know... DRAW IN NEW FANS (and leave Macross fans in peace). Isn't this what Uncle Carl would have wanted??

[Beltane70]

That would mean that Tommy would have to acknowledge that he was beaten. Going from what I know, that's not going to happen anytime soon, if at all.

[Keith]

On a side note,

"Variety is reporting that America's favorite combining robot, Voltron, is taking a route more similar to the recently announced Thundercats revival than its big screen toy tie-ins brethren G.I Joe and Transformers. Marking the franchise's 25th anniversary, a new, animated 26 episode "Voltron Force, will run Nicktoons alongside Mattel toy launch in 2011.

The last twist in the Voltron revival development saga had been a project reboot, with prior movie scripts discarded and a harder-edged, PG-13-rated Voltron OVA in the vein of The Animatrix and Batman: Gotham Knight is being discussed."

Read more at http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45391

I kind of drifted away from the eternal tedium that is the Robotech franchise, but this news caught my eye. Why doesn't Tommy just give up his vainglorious Hollywood ambitions and go with a rebooted series to you know... DRAW IN NEW FANS (and leave Macross fans in peace). Isn't this what Uncle Carl would have wanted??

Because he wrote himself into a whole by destroying his entire earth/space/ fleet, main space station, losing his source of superfuel in a blackhole (and only character his fanbase cares about), and lost any real hope for including a newly designed fighter. What could there possibly be left to write a series about? One lone ship fleeing the Cylon tryany?

[Einherjar]

I kind of drifted away from the eternal tedium that is the Robotech franchise, but this news caught my eye. Why doesn't Tommy just give up his vainglorious Hollywood ambitions and go with a rebooted series to you know... DRAW IN NEW FANS (and leave Macross fans in peace). Isn't this what Uncle Carl would have wanted??

Innovation? They're doing whatever it takes to make money with the least amount of risk possible to keep their licenses.

For example, behold the "new" "Jack Baker" Whatever fighter.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Einherjar

[Wanzerfan]

Firstly, Gundam (Wing) came along in a different time and environment.

Secondly, Macek tried to get the thing in as a daily weekday syndicated series (whether this is actually desirable for something as non-episodic as Macross and Southern Cross is questionable). A weekly show would have less strict requirements.

One question, did many of Robotech's contemporary animated shows typically broadcast five days a week in the US?

Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years, Thundercats, G.I. Joe, The second season of Transformers G1 on, and Silverhawks are examples of shows that broadcast five days a week.

Edit: Both *shudder* the original He-Man and She-Ra Princess of Power fall into this category as well.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Wanzerfan

[Jasonc]

On a side note,

"Variety is reporting that America's favorite combining robot, Voltron, is taking a route more similar to the recently announced Thundercats revival than its big screen toy tie-ins brethren G.I Joe and Transformers. Marking the franchise's 25th anniversary, a new, animated 26 episode "Voltron Force, will run Nicktoons alongside Mattel toy launch in 2011.

The last twist in the Voltron revival development saga had been a project reboot, with prior movie scripts discarded and a harder-edged, PG-13-rated Voltron OVA in the vein of The Animatrix and Batman: Gotham Knight is being discussed."

Read more at http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45391

I kind of drifted away from the eternal tedium that is the Robotech franchise, but this news caught my eye. Why doesn't Tommy just give up his vainglorious Hollywood ambitions and go with a rebooted series to you know... DRAW IN NEW FANS (and leave Macross fans in peace). Isn't this what Uncle Carl would have wanted??

All that does sound interesting. I still think Robotech's problem is that it's been out way too long in a dark basement. Even Voltron, with not much more, has more product recognition than Robotech ever had. The Robotech franchise, for the most part, has been put into a corner, where there aren't many options for the franchise. The whole "banking on WB" issue is one of them. If that deal dies, what are they gonna do? What are they gonna tell the fans? They won't be able to use the "we're moving forward and progressing" lie they've been telling for who knows how long. For Shadow Rising, they didn't even have Funimation backing the project, so who do they have on their side to even, maybe do a reboot of anything? It seems like they've put themselves in a position to only do feature animated films, and low budget ones at that. Can all that change? Of course, but it doesn't look like it will, and it seems like they're stuck on wanting to do animated features and the continuation of Robotech.

[VF5SS]

For example, behold the "new" "Jack Baker" Whatever fighter.

isn't that the same Legioss picture from over three years ago.

Still looks really awkward.

[chrisk]

That would mean that Tommy would have to acknowledge that he was beaten. Going from what I know, that's not going to happen anytime soon, if at all.

I couldn't resist, so I managed to find this quote from longtime Robotech fan rtsurfer:

(My opinion is based on personal interactions with him in chats and from what others whom have met him in person told me)

"Tommy Yune: He seems like an okay guy although he's unbelievably stubborn, very proud of himself and his work, and seems to be a know it all. He can be a brilliant artist, most of the work I've seen was good to very good. Writing skills seem average. Story telling not so good. Innovation sometimes good, mostly average. Knowledge of Robotech average, probably knows more about the OSM. Definitely closed minded and self reliant. Him and his brother (you don't want to know what I think about him ) wouldn't have been my choice for running the Robotech franchise. They would probably be better at running something they understand better."

I rest my case.

If that deal dies, what are they gonna do? What are they gonna tell the fans? They won't be able to use the "we're moving forward and progressing" lie they've been telling for who knows how long.

At this point, I firmly believe there are no depths this group would sink to to sell that damnable live action flick. As I've said years in the past, wait for San Diego.

... behold the "new" "Jack Baker" Whatever fighter.

.

http://robotech.com/gallery/galimage/viewgalimage.php?id=2040

You know... I wouldn't be surprised if the fighter's main colors were on a separate layer on Photoshop and there was a color changer bar with the message "Slide in case you need to repurpose old crap for naive fanbase"

P.S.

If you need your Robotech drama fix, I suggest you check out this wonderful thread at RDF-HQ, and weigh in your thoughts here:

http://disciplesofzor.com/topic/2776/t/-Robotech-Fan-Podcast-show-on-Talkshoe.html

Edited June 8, 2010 by chrisk

[Seto Kaiba]

Why doesn't Tommy just give up his vainglorious Hollywood ambitions and go with a rebooted series to you know... DRAW IN NEW FANS (and leave Macross fans in peace). Isn't this what Uncle Carl would have wanted??

Because that would entail doing three things that Tommy is either incapable of, or just plain unwilling to do:

1.) Admitting to everyone that, while his credentials and achievements as the franchise's creative director far outstrip those of Carl Macek, everything he's accomplished for the Robotech franchise thus far has been for naught. (Understandable. Who wants to be forced to invalidate all of their achievements?)

2.) Owning up to the fact that the "original" Robotech story is a fatally flawed mess of plot holes, dodgy editing, and genuinely lackluster writing that is beyond any mere moral's power to salvage, instead of the universally-revered flawless masterpiece that Harmony Gold is perpetually trying and failing to paint it as... and that as such, rebooting the universe and starting over from scratch is necessary to polish that turd into something halfway marketable.

3.) Setting aside his own COLOSSAL ego and allowing someone who actually has a goddamn clue how to write do the screenplay.

isn't that the same Legioss picture from over three years ago.

Still looks really awkward.

No, it's in a slightly different pose this time...

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

I understand the reasoning plot-wise. But I was focusing on the amount of violence and adult content they were planning in the Sentinels (if most of what was in the novels was actually planned to be animated). How would they get away with showing that kind of material without being censored?

Sorry for being late...

If the local stations and the FCC didn't raise red flags on Sentinels, chances of broadcasting may be slim or never. The show would create negative publicity much like Robotech: The Movie did, forcing the show be pulled and/or canceled or forced to edit the show be more family-friendly.

I understand that Macek wanted to be different from other edited 1980s anime TV shows, but there's a difference between a outstanding risk-taker and a foolhardy risk-taker.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

Innovation? They're doing whatever it takes to make money with the least amount of risk possible to keep their licenses.

To paraphrase a science-fiction who worked on a great TV series, only to create a rival show after the former show lost creative direction:

"That Robotech never had a brush with negative criticism, never came face to face with his own popularity, never realized how fragile storytelling is, or how important each moment must be. So the franchise never came into focus. It drifted through much of its career, with no plan or agenda... going from one convention panel to the next, never seizing the opportunities that presented themselves. The franchise didn't abandon the dated artwork for modern styles, or take creative writing for the average viewer without the fan in-nods. And no TV station ever offered a timeslot. Harmony Gold and Robotech learned to play it safe... and never, EVER got noticed by ANYONE."

With no other sponsor, maybe Harmony Gold ask Alfred K. Kahn (of 4Kids Entertainment) for help?

Or how about Rick Berman? The guy's currently unemployed, so why not?

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

All that does sound interesting. I still think Robotech's problem is that it's been out way too long in a dark basement. Even Voltron, with not much more, has more product recognition than Robotech ever had.

To me, it's Voltron, not Robotech, was the one that opened anime in 1980s. Voltron came out in 1984 and many anime shows appeared on 1985 (including Robotech).

The late Peter Keefe did a better job with his edited anime shows than Macek, because Voltron and Saber Rider were edited for being family-friendly. Thus, it's more popular for re-runs while Robotech retaining the deaths of main characters (a no-no in 1980s cartoons) were shunned by it. I remember Robotech's re-run cycle ended mid-way and replaced by Saber Rider instead.

Also, Voltron rose up to the realm of pop culture and lingo to non-fans of anime even if some didn't watch the show (such as "the five robot lions that looked the the Megazord", "the alien princess with the mice" and so on).

Say "Rick Hunter" to a TV viewer who's not an anime fan would conjure this.

The Robotech franchise, for the most part, has been put into a corner, where there aren't many options for the franchise. The whole "banking on WB" issue is one of them. If that deal dies, what are they gonna do? What are they gonna tell the fans? They won't be able to use the "we're moving forward and progressing" lie they've been telling for who knows how long. For Shadow Rising, they didn't even have Funimation backing the project, so who do they have on their side to even, maybe do a reboot of anything? It seems like they've put themselves in a position to only do feature animated films, and low budget ones at that. Can all that change? Of course, but it doesn't look like it will, and it seems like they're stuck on wanting to do animated features and the continuation of Robotech.

And somewhere in the afterlife, Peter Keefe is laughing at Carl Macek, saying that Voltron never let Peter down.

The people of HG are now doing what Rick Berman did (on one franchise) years ago.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

Because that would entail doing three things that Tommy is either incapable of, or just plain unwilling to do:

1.) Admitting to everyone that, while his credentials and achievements as the franchise's creative director far outstrip those of Carl Macek, everything he's accomplished for the Robotech franchise thus far has been for naught. (Understandable. Who wants to be forced to invalidate all of their achievements?)

2.) Owning up to the fact that the "original" Robotech story is a fatally flawed mess of plot holes, dodgy editing, and genuinely lackluster writing that is beyond any mere moral's power to salvage, instead of the universally-revered flawless masterpiece that Harmony Gold is perpetually trying and failing to paint it as... and that as such, rebooting the universe and starting over from scratch is necessary to polish that turd into something halfway marketable.

3.) Setting aside his own COLOSSAL ego and allowing someone who actually has a goddamn clue how to write do the screenplay.

1. and 3.) The big question is what would make him throw the towel and walk into the exit door: himself or someone else?

2.) In order for the reboot to work, they would have to ditch the current fanbase so that their opinions do not interfere with the creative process.

Another is to ditch the two McGuffins that affected Robotech:

A.) The Macross Saga characters and the Mary-Sueim that forces new main characters down from the spotlight.

B.) Robotechnology using a propriety bio-fuel that only makes the technology work (artificial nuclear power, "magic ingredient" for genetic cloning/gene splicing and so on). For 36 years (Robotech Universe 1999-2045), any effort to use a different fuel or grow more flowers had failed.

[Seto Kaiba]

I understand that Macek wanted to be different from other edited 1980s anime TV shows, but there's a difference between a outstanding risk-taker and a foolhardy risk-taker.

Of course, there's also a world of difference between the efforts of someone who has at least some clue of how to create original material based on an existing series, and the feeble efforts of a man who only knows how to rewrite someone else's work. Any way you shake it, Macek didn't have a goddamn clue how to make original material... let alone original material that would appeal to the existing fanbase.

It really is perplexing how Robotech fans hold the man up as though he was the messiah of the anime industry but treat every attempt the man made to do something new and original with Robotech as a horrid abortion. You'd think by now they would have cottoned on to the fact that just about everything they profess to love about the Robotech TV series comes from the originals.

1. and 3.) The big question is what would make him throw the towel and walk into the exit door: himself or someone else?

Given the impression I formed of the man during the few conversations I've had with him about Robotech, I'd say that the only way he'd ever depart the franchise to make way for someone halfway capable would be if he was being escorted out by security. Even then, I suspect he'd still hover around on the periphery and complain about the way the franchise is being run... rather like Tom Bateman continues to do. (Though admittedly Bateman has proven he can actually do something of value for the fans, Tommy hasn't)

2.) In order for the reboot to work, they would have to ditch the current fanbase so that their opinions do not interfere with the creative process.

Pretty much, yeah... and I can't see a company like Harmony Gold that constantly plays it safe and refuses to do anything that doesn't have an immediate return on investment doing something as risky as sacrificing their small, blindly loyal, and extremely belligerent fanbase on a gamble like that. Completely purging the franchise of the old fanbase also means firing Steve Yun, Tommy Yune, and Kevin McKeever, who profess to have been fans before being hired by Harmony Gold.

Another is to ditch the two McGuffins that affected Robotech:

A.) The Macross Saga characters and the Mary-Sueim that forces new main characters down from the spotlight.

B.) Robotechnology using a propriety bio-fuel that only makes the technology work (artificial nuclear power, "magic ingredient" for genetic cloning/gene splicing and so on). For 36 years (Robotech Universe 1999-2045), any effort to use a different fuel or grow more flowers had failed.

Ditching those essentially means destroying the only parts of Robotech that the existing fanbase cares about, and the only major thing that sets Robotech apart from Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada. Macross is, was, and always will be the only part of Robotech that 99% of the fans give a toss about, so Harmony Gold will NEVER EVER get rid of it until they're absolutely forced to do so.

[MacrossCN]

WB HAS RIGHTS TO ROBOTECH LAM VIDEO GAME

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/3-robotech-live-action/12653-wb-has-rights-to-robotech-lam-video-game.html

[Seto Kaiba]

WB HAS RIGHTS TO ROBOTECH LAM VIDEO GAME

Ooookay... I'm not sure why MEMO thinks this is a revelation or anything unexpected? It doesn't mean Warner's serious about the Robotech-in-name-only live action movie, it's standard practice for any film with merchandising potential. If they didn't retain merchandising rights to a movie they made and it became a hit, the stockholders would crucify them. It doesn't mean Warner's fast-tracking the movie because it's a sure-fire success. It doesn't even mean Warner thinks they'll make the movie. All they're doing is hedging their bets while they have the license.

Business as usual... the illiterate idiots of the Robotech lunatic fringe see a perfectly mundane piece of film industry news and assume that it means great things are happening for Robotech, and that the live-action movie is destined for greatness. It'd be hilarious if they didn't do it every other week.

[terry the lone wolf]

If the RT game looks anything like DCU Online should be worth waiting for.

[Keith]

Nor does that even mean there's a robotech game in developement. As per usual Yune rhetoric, he uses the abscence of evidence to promote truth.

[Seto Kaiba]

Nor does that even mean there's a robotech game in developement. As per usual Yune rhetoric, he uses the abscence of evidence to promote truth.

Helped along, of course, by some astonishingly gullible people.